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Apple PDA/Digital Devices?
- Thread starter arn
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Uber PDA's
Think of this for a min, I work as a computer retail sales man in western canada, in are store location we have computers leaving are department every hour worth 3000$ plus all the toys to go with them!!.
Over the past two years apple has gone from a lonely imac with dust to a full line up of apples from the small iPod to the 23" HD LCD. Apple has the touch if they want want to sell a PDA's i think they can do it, they just have to be careful about it, lets look at some PDA's for a moment and see what apple has to do to make a best seller.
Lets break this down into two groups the big boys and the little brats.
Little Brats: Palm handhelds like Sony Clea,Handspring Visor, and the Palm are all small PDA's great for keeping your address and numbers but lets face it they are too small to do much more then that, try doing a spreadsheet LOL
Big Boys: Windows CE devices like HP Jernoda, Compaq iPac, and Toshiba's new one, these PDA's have much faster CPU's and Larger screens and you can get by with spreadsheet on these PDA's, and listen to MP3's or watch a video.
So what do all these PDA's have in comen...They are all hard to use for the first time ever tried to setup the HOTSYNC on a PDA before, it's a pain, and want to install files and programs, good luck! some of them have cool add on's like GPS and Digital Camera's, And all of them can go wireless with a little TLC.
So what does apple need to make this years hot sellers, and maybe next year too.
Lets list them off
1) Easy to use and setup
2) Big Screen
3) Wireless
4) Excel and Word support
5) MP3
6) Memory Expansion "stock 64mb"
7) Extra Stuff "GPS, Digital Cam, etc.."
8) Address + Numbers
9) Games
10) Notes
11) HandWriting Reconiton!
12) Video Playback
If apple could make a PDA that could use all of this and more they would Take the market.
One of the most important items on the list is #7 people love toys and they will buy them, for and example...
the Sony clea is a hot seller it has great features at a fair price like 8mb of ram and expansion for more with MP3 playback it rocks but there is one major down side, to toys!! you cant even get a case for it yet!
If apple put out a PDA that had a a few expansion units to start it off they could really take the market.
GPS unit: that tells you your exact location on a map and can give you directions to were that broad meeting is at.
Digital camera: not just a 800X800 pixels image but a real digital camera like 4 megpaixels
Video Camera: something to use as a web cam and maybe a little more
Voice recorder: Very useful for forgetful types like me..what was i saying..
and much more..
all we have to do is Think Different! 🙂
Thanks for my 2 cents
Think of this for a min, I work as a computer retail sales man in western canada, in are store location we have computers leaving are department every hour worth 3000$ plus all the toys to go with them!!.
Over the past two years apple has gone from a lonely imac with dust to a full line up of apples from the small iPod to the 23" HD LCD. Apple has the touch if they want want to sell a PDA's i think they can do it, they just have to be careful about it, lets look at some PDA's for a moment and see what apple has to do to make a best seller.
Lets break this down into two groups the big boys and the little brats.
Little Brats: Palm handhelds like Sony Clea,Handspring Visor, and the Palm are all small PDA's great for keeping your address and numbers but lets face it they are too small to do much more then that, try doing a spreadsheet LOL
Big Boys: Windows CE devices like HP Jernoda, Compaq iPac, and Toshiba's new one, these PDA's have much faster CPU's and Larger screens and you can get by with spreadsheet on these PDA's, and listen to MP3's or watch a video.
So what do all these PDA's have in comen...They are all hard to use for the first time ever tried to setup the HOTSYNC on a PDA before, it's a pain, and want to install files and programs, good luck! some of them have cool add on's like GPS and Digital Camera's, And all of them can go wireless with a little TLC.
So what does apple need to make this years hot sellers, and maybe next year too.
Lets list them off
1) Easy to use and setup
2) Big Screen
3) Wireless
4) Excel and Word support
5) MP3
6) Memory Expansion "stock 64mb"
7) Extra Stuff "GPS, Digital Cam, etc.."
8) Address + Numbers
9) Games
10) Notes
11) HandWriting Reconiton!
12) Video Playback
If apple could make a PDA that could use all of this and more they would Take the market.
One of the most important items on the list is #7 people love toys and they will buy them, for and example...
the Sony clea is a hot seller it has great features at a fair price like 8mb of ram and expansion for more with MP3 playback it rocks but there is one major down side, to toys!! you cant even get a case for it yet!
If apple put out a PDA that had a a few expansion units to start it off they could really take the market.
GPS unit: that tells you your exact location on a map and can give you directions to were that broad meeting is at.
Digital camera: not just a 800X800 pixels image but a real digital camera like 4 megpaixels
Video Camera: something to use as a web cam and maybe a little more
Voice recorder: Very useful for forgetful types like me..what was i saying..
and much more..
all we have to do is Think Different! 🙂
Thanks for my 2 cents
mischief
macrumors 68030
Details foocha, details...........
I'm Canadian so my remarks about Brits are somewhat tongue in cheek. Although, among Commonwealth Nations Britain has the highest nitpicking-per-% BAC rating.
I still have yet to get an intelligent response to ANY of the points raised.
Saying Apple will enter the market just because it's stagnant and using iPod as an example is rather naive. iPod was less about Mp3 than it was about portability of Data.
If Apple introduces a machine smaller than a notebook it will be far more capable than the classification "PDA" really covers. I find it far more likely we'll see an iBook with touch screen and stylus.
I'm Canadian so my remarks about Brits are somewhat tongue in cheek. Although, among Commonwealth Nations Britain has the highest nitpicking-per-% BAC rating.
I still have yet to get an intelligent response to ANY of the points raised.
Saying Apple will enter the market just because it's stagnant and using iPod as an example is rather naive. iPod was less about Mp3 than it was about portability of Data.
If Apple introduces a machine smaller than a notebook it will be far more capable than the classification "PDA" really covers. I find it far more likely we'll see an iBook with touch screen and stylus.
Mischief
You stated the belief that Apple would not make a PDA. You stated that belief strongly and forcefully, while rather rudely heaping scorn on those who disagree with you. You failed to give any evidence or even reasoning to support your contention. You fail to differentiate between current PDAs and the kind of device which I outlined.
Yoiu claimed a degree of inside knowledge which cannot be proved or disproved.
You subsequently insist (again with no reasoned argument or evidence) that the only possible advance for PDAs is G3 wireless compatability. Firewire connectivity and near automatic synchronisation may represent an equally compelling vision of the future, unless you can offer reasoned argument to the contrary.
You must expect to be teased rather than respected, because you fail to engage in reasoned debate, but instead choose to adopt an arrogant, superior and hectoring tone.
In view of the success of the iPod/iTunes and indeed of iPhoto in increasing the perceived value of iBooks, iMacs and Powerbooks as 'digital hubs' it is reasonable to expect Apple to consider any device which conforms to the digital hub strategy. The iPod could have been much more than a simple Mac dependant MP3 player and hard disc, but Apple quite deliberately made it part of the Apple hub infrastructure.
An all-singing all-dancing PDA would offer little that the Pocket PC or Journada don't already offer, and would threaten some Laptop sales. The kind of device which I outlined would be a must-have for many Mac users, would attract many others to the Mac platform, and would not threaten laptop sales.
Again, at a $250-450 price point who would NOT buy a pocket-sized, portable tool which allowed you to take notes which could simply be synched with applications on your Mac, or read e-books, or edit text documents?
You stated the belief that Apple would not make a PDA. You stated that belief strongly and forcefully, while rather rudely heaping scorn on those who disagree with you. You failed to give any evidence or even reasoning to support your contention. You fail to differentiate between current PDAs and the kind of device which I outlined.
Yoiu claimed a degree of inside knowledge which cannot be proved or disproved.
You subsequently insist (again with no reasoned argument or evidence) that the only possible advance for PDAs is G3 wireless compatability. Firewire connectivity and near automatic synchronisation may represent an equally compelling vision of the future, unless you can offer reasoned argument to the contrary.
You must expect to be teased rather than respected, because you fail to engage in reasoned debate, but instead choose to adopt an arrogant, superior and hectoring tone.
In view of the success of the iPod/iTunes and indeed of iPhoto in increasing the perceived value of iBooks, iMacs and Powerbooks as 'digital hubs' it is reasonable to expect Apple to consider any device which conforms to the digital hub strategy. The iPod could have been much more than a simple Mac dependant MP3 player and hard disc, but Apple quite deliberately made it part of the Apple hub infrastructure.
An all-singing all-dancing PDA would offer little that the Pocket PC or Journada don't already offer, and would threaten some Laptop sales. The kind of device which I outlined would be a must-have for many Mac users, would attract many others to the Mac platform, and would not threaten laptop sales.
Again, at a $250-450 price point who would NOT buy a pocket-sized, portable tool which allowed you to take notes which could simply be synched with applications on your Mac, or read e-books, or edit text documents?
mischief
macrumors 68030
This is where I go off...........
I refrain from providing detailed arguements only because they have been stated, restated, quoted, footnoted and referred to so many times between myself and others who've been discussing this AT LENGTH for at least a YEAR that dredging them up again is a waste. If you really want to see the pros and cons of an Apple PDA then, please, GO LOOK IT UP.
My "Insider inferrences" are just the result of having hashed this out already countles times, having 2 close friends at Apple, working a stone's throw from Apple's main campus, selling Macs at a Mac-only retailer for a year and researching the hell out of the issue.
So I suppose you're right, an uppitty teenage geek like you may know better now that school's out for the summer so you can post all day. I suppose "The Key to Hades" is as good a place as Silicon Valley for examining the industry.
Do me a favor newbie and go get some fresh air.
I refrain from providing detailed arguements only because they have been stated, restated, quoted, footnoted and referred to so many times between myself and others who've been discussing this AT LENGTH for at least a YEAR that dredging them up again is a waste. If you really want to see the pros and cons of an Apple PDA then, please, GO LOOK IT UP.
My "Insider inferrences" are just the result of having hashed this out already countles times, having 2 close friends at Apple, working a stone's throw from Apple's main campus, selling Macs at a Mac-only retailer for a year and researching the hell out of the issue.
So I suppose you're right, an uppitty teenage geek like you may know better now that school's out for the summer so you can post all day. I suppose "The Key to Hades" is as good a place as Silicon Valley for examining the industry.
Do me a favor newbie and go get some fresh air.
OK, so you are a 25 year old architectural CAD draughtsman. In California. And you've been a sales assistant in a computer shop. And you have friends who work for Apple, who are presumably employed at the highest echelon. And you make assumptions as to who and what I am, with as little evidence for your conclusions as you use to support your dubious contentions.
Sorry to disappoint you, fella, but I'm neither a teenager nor a geek.
I am, however, old enough to be your Dad. I am also a full-time professional print and broadcast journalist. One of my colleagues has just got back from meeting and interviewing senior personnel at Apple. Friends from University days are now 41- and 42- year old senior execs and VPs throughout the industry (including Apple).
I'll be honest, I don't know what Apple will do next - final decisions are above the pay grade of people I know in the company. But I've had some hints.
But you've been hashing this out on an internet BB, so I bow to your superior credentials.
Simply stating a controversial position as though it were fact, and without supporting argument is a waste of everybody's time (however many times you may have argued about it before).
In the absence of any intelligent debate, feel free to continue tossing out half-baked and infantile abuse, but don't expect me to waste any more of my time responding. 😛
Sorry to disappoint you, fella, but I'm neither a teenager nor a geek.
I am, however, old enough to be your Dad. I am also a full-time professional print and broadcast journalist. One of my colleagues has just got back from meeting and interviewing senior personnel at Apple. Friends from University days are now 41- and 42- year old senior execs and VPs throughout the industry (including Apple).
I'll be honest, I don't know what Apple will do next - final decisions are above the pay grade of people I know in the company. But I've had some hints.
But you've been hashing this out on an internet BB, so I bow to your superior credentials.
Simply stating a controversial position as though it were fact, and without supporting argument is a waste of everybody's time (however many times you may have argued about it before).
In the absence of any intelligent debate, feel free to continue tossing out half-baked and infantile abuse, but don't expect me to waste any more of my time responding. 😛
$250-450? First of all, when has Apple (Steve I mean) ever been know for making a bottom end offering (especially in an already bottomed-out market)? Second do you think people will go to Apple computers to spend another $150-$350 on their systems to add an iPad and iBook to replace their existing eMachine and m105? Think really hard, yes I might do it, hell just to get a real way to hot sync in OSX (stupid Palm Desktop higs CPU cycles). But I doubt others will. In the past MANY years Apple has focused on innovation and the highest quality. I mean look at the I/O and features on the iBook compared to any Sub $1000 PC laptop- 6hr batt, FW, 2 USB, buiolt-in wireless slot, built in CD, Radeon Mobility. Last time i checked pc laptops that cheap were still 800x600 LCDs with a 2hr batt, and no real HW 3D.
What i'm getting at is that apple *will* make another 'Newton'. The Newton was a 'freakin small laptop, it was hardly less powerful than the mac laptops at the time, and yet they did poorly in the market bc no one had any respect for Apple, and the PDA was a foregn concept. If they polished the size, OS, and features, then added a nice Hot-Sync and I/O i think it would do quite well. Imagine the thousands of people that would buy a PDA that really felt to them like a BETTER pen and paper. I think my voice recog idea would really bolster sales of such a thing. Of course it'll need movie and music playback, but apple is DEFINATLY smart enough not to invade on the iPod or the laptop space. Too bad the mac is so centric to the hub. I doubt we'll see much cross device sharing (no iPod to iPod firewire file sharing or address book sharing, no iPod to hold files/get music for an iPad, etc etc)
mischief
macrumors 68030
OK, Touche.
Peace.
You want reasoned answers. I'll try to sum up what's been the trend in rumors, R&D and Steve's strange little world.
The Digital Lifestyle and Digital Hub are the products Apple is genuinely focussed on. This goes much farther than simply being a "Geek on the go". Apple's design team is quite aware of "Geek factor" and the fact that most people are conservative about their accessories. iPod was a test of the water for a more comprehensive approach to Data as a whole.
The Digital Lifestyle:
First: Apple's target demographic is widening in age and (due to market conditions) narrowing into the business and high end consumer markets.
Bounce ahead with me 5 years.
iPod has been expanded to include bluetooth, colour screen, larger storage and additional Apps. Interface remains the same. Apple has just offered a G3 PCS version of iPod with OS-X-Lite and speech to text/text to speech.
Apple has just introduced a bluetooth headset with mic.
Apple has added a range of online services (by way of x-serve) including Banking, credit and web hosting. Airport 2 has been released running 802.11g with 256 bit encryption and a 250 foot range. One of the additional apps for iPod is a digital "cheque book" that works via bluetooth.
iBook and iMac both come with a touch screen, stylus and optional Apple Pro Keyboard.
TiBook gains touch screen/stylus feature but retains keyboard.
Booting from iPod via FW2 becomes common practice, adding security and freeing up drive space.
Apple is headed for a complete digital lifestyle that would out compete PDAs with iPods. PDAs as a product because they add to the clutter of Geek-Factor hardware that people at large don't want. The consumer we're looking at is the same one that would buy a Clie but sees the bennefit of a secure, portable HD and therefore buys an iPod. It just takes some time to get there is all and there's much more to be done in getting the Towers and CPU situation under control before focussing on killing an already weak Palm Inc.
Is that better?😉 😀
Peace.
You want reasoned answers. I'll try to sum up what's been the trend in rumors, R&D and Steve's strange little world.
The Digital Lifestyle and Digital Hub are the products Apple is genuinely focussed on. This goes much farther than simply being a "Geek on the go". Apple's design team is quite aware of "Geek factor" and the fact that most people are conservative about their accessories. iPod was a test of the water for a more comprehensive approach to Data as a whole.
The Digital Lifestyle:
First: Apple's target demographic is widening in age and (due to market conditions) narrowing into the business and high end consumer markets.
Bounce ahead with me 5 years.
iPod has been expanded to include bluetooth, colour screen, larger storage and additional Apps. Interface remains the same. Apple has just offered a G3 PCS version of iPod with OS-X-Lite and speech to text/text to speech.
Apple has just introduced a bluetooth headset with mic.
Apple has added a range of online services (by way of x-serve) including Banking, credit and web hosting. Airport 2 has been released running 802.11g with 256 bit encryption and a 250 foot range. One of the additional apps for iPod is a digital "cheque book" that works via bluetooth.
iBook and iMac both come with a touch screen, stylus and optional Apple Pro Keyboard.
TiBook gains touch screen/stylus feature but retains keyboard.
Booting from iPod via FW2 becomes common practice, adding security and freeing up drive space.
Apple is headed for a complete digital lifestyle that would out compete PDAs with iPods. PDAs as a product because they add to the clutter of Geek-Factor hardware that people at large don't want. The consumer we're looking at is the same one that would buy a Clie but sees the bennefit of a secure, portable HD and therefore buys an iPod. It just takes some time to get there is all and there's much more to be done in getting the Towers and CPU situation under control before focussing on killing an already weak Palm Inc.
Is that better?😉 😀
Mischief,
Is that better? In tone, much.
Thank you.
I'd like a modern Newton that could fit in my pocket and do everything that my iBook can. And double as a mobile, and a TV, and tell me I'm great, and give great head. It's not going to happen, alas.
But there are intermediate products along the route to such a beast which would be winners, and an electronic notebook replacement would be one of them. Who'd have imagined that Apple would produce something as simple and prosaic as a straight MP3 player before iPod came out? Look at the rumours and expectations before its release.
But while it was a 'disappointment' to the geeks, we all bought them. And the modest i-jotter will be just as popular and will further improve the appeal of iMacs and iBooks as digi-hubs.
And in the medium term it wouldn't mitigate against more ambitious products.
But text-to-speech in five years? I doubt it. Not for technical reasons, but due to inherent conservatism and the limitations of many work environments. People can scribble notes anywhere, but with open plan offices, noisy classrooms, etc. they can't talk anywhere, let alone dictate well enough for ViaVoice or its derivatives to cope with.
Colour iPods? Maybe, perhaps, but my sources tell me to expect further single-use dedicated devices, not developed versatile multi-role Pod derivatives. They even looked hard at a digital camera designed specifically to work with iPhoto, I'm told.
Apple's as aware as anyone of the vast numbers of Palm PDAs bought for the promise of handwriting recognition and then discarded because it won't actually do cursive natural handwriting.
And look at the money spent on Inkwell.....
MasterX
When have Apple gone low-end? iMac, eMac, iBook, even iPod. And any device won't on its own force dozens of PC users to swap over straight away, it'll just be another factor influencing purchase and upgrade decisions, as the iMac's looks have been, as the iPod is proving, etc.
Stimulating debate though, guys!
Is that better? In tone, much.
Thank you.
I'd like a modern Newton that could fit in my pocket and do everything that my iBook can. And double as a mobile, and a TV, and tell me I'm great, and give great head. It's not going to happen, alas.
But there are intermediate products along the route to such a beast which would be winners, and an electronic notebook replacement would be one of them. Who'd have imagined that Apple would produce something as simple and prosaic as a straight MP3 player before iPod came out? Look at the rumours and expectations before its release.
But while it was a 'disappointment' to the geeks, we all bought them. And the modest i-jotter will be just as popular and will further improve the appeal of iMacs and iBooks as digi-hubs.
And in the medium term it wouldn't mitigate against more ambitious products.
But text-to-speech in five years? I doubt it. Not for technical reasons, but due to inherent conservatism and the limitations of many work environments. People can scribble notes anywhere, but with open plan offices, noisy classrooms, etc. they can't talk anywhere, let alone dictate well enough for ViaVoice or its derivatives to cope with.
Colour iPods? Maybe, perhaps, but my sources tell me to expect further single-use dedicated devices, not developed versatile multi-role Pod derivatives. They even looked hard at a digital camera designed specifically to work with iPhoto, I'm told.
Apple's as aware as anyone of the vast numbers of Palm PDAs bought for the promise of handwriting recognition and then discarded because it won't actually do cursive natural handwriting.
And look at the money spent on Inkwell.....
MasterX
When have Apple gone low-end? iMac, eMac, iBook, even iPod. And any device won't on its own force dozens of PC users to swap over straight away, it'll just be another factor influencing purchase and upgrade decisions, as the iMac's looks have been, as the iPod is proving, etc.
Stimulating debate though, guys!
mischief
macrumors 68030
This is the latest serious discussion:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1057/&perpage=25&iwalk&pagenumber=1
Since then it's been pretty much a non-issue. Search for all threads containing " Newton" or "PDA" previous to this one for the other discussions.
Ciao.😉
PS: I'm aware of the "din" associated with mass- headset use, I don't think that'd be the main interface for a complete sub-notebook but rather a supplemental interface for a "Digital Lifestyle" wallet that stores ALL your personal Data: scheduling, phone #'s, files and Music........ even Apps and a bootable copy of X with all your iApps on board.
The iPod IS the Digital Hub......... We're just not quite finnished yet....... 😀
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1057/&perpage=25&iwalk&pagenumber=1
Since then it's been pretty much a non-issue. Search for all threads containing " Newton" or "PDA" previous to this one for the other discussions.
Ciao.😉
PS: I'm aware of the "din" associated with mass- headset use, I don't think that'd be the main interface for a complete sub-notebook but rather a supplemental interface for a "Digital Lifestyle" wallet that stores ALL your personal Data: scheduling, phone #'s, files and Music........ even Apps and a bootable copy of X with all your iApps on board.
The iPod IS the Digital Hub......... We're just not quite finnished yet....... 😀
It would seem that where there is smoke there might be fire but Apple is run a bit more conservatively than it used to in regards to following the market and economics. I would imagine the ipod is truly a test but I wouldn't put my eggs all in one basket that future portable devices from Apple will use any type of form factor that is similar to the ipod and I don't see it being the "digital hub". Only someone trying to outguess Apple could come to that conclusion. Sure there will be enhancements but there are other devices they need to deliver that can supplement their core markets which are desktop and laptop systems. The ipod is not one of their core markets and I doubt it ever will be unless they deliver a Windows or multiplatform version. Doing this would demonstrate to the public that they are more serious about following Sony's lead in becoming a giant in various industries similar to them.
As to the next non-ipod, non-laptop, portable device from Apple, it's been said elsewhere, but it's not going to be considered a pda by Steve's or Apple's definition...at least initially. Remember Steve wants to be unique...Think Different...and that's their best bet in any market when they're unique and ahead of the rest. I recall early in Steve's comeback him commenting that the Mac is not a PC. These days he refers to the Mac numerous times as a PC. It's all about marketing at strategic times. I'd say that as long as the market is there and Apple has some of the best market research out there, we will see a new portable device that the media will call a pda but Apple will not. It's just Apple's way of trying to deliver the next cool product under everyone's radar.
Of course the thing that works against them is that it has to be very "cool" because the pda market really isn't stagnent like many believe. There are things going on behind the scenes. The economy is playing a small role in slowing it down but there is alot of development and money being thrown around that most average Joe's don't know about. Much of this will become evident over the next year.
As to the next non-ipod, non-laptop, portable device from Apple, it's been said elsewhere, but it's not going to be considered a pda by Steve's or Apple's definition...at least initially. Remember Steve wants to be unique...Think Different...and that's their best bet in any market when they're unique and ahead of the rest. I recall early in Steve's comeback him commenting that the Mac is not a PC. These days he refers to the Mac numerous times as a PC. It's all about marketing at strategic times. I'd say that as long as the market is there and Apple has some of the best market research out there, we will see a new portable device that the media will call a pda but Apple will not. It's just Apple's way of trying to deliver the next cool product under everyone's radar.
Of course the thing that works against them is that it has to be very "cool" because the pda market really isn't stagnent like many believe. There are things going on behind the scenes. The economy is playing a small role in slowing it down but there is alot of development and money being thrown around that most average Joe's don't know about. Much of this will become evident over the next year.
Re: Details foocha, details...........
I was observing the result, not the reason.
I believe the original slogan was 1000 songs in your pocket, not all your word documents and jpegs and backup apps in your pocket. This was a plus that many if not all ipod users use but not what the ipod was "about". With this feature they were testing the waters
None the less after reading your last posts I believe we are in the same camp, this whole PDA thing is too semantical... I say PDA you say DLW but it is the same device we all want to see. I just hope sooner than 5 years I have too much junk and not enough pockets
I was observing the result, not the reason.
I believe the original slogan was 1000 songs in your pocket, not all your word documents and jpegs and backup apps in your pocket. This was a plus that many if not all ipod users use but not what the ipod was "about". With this feature they were testing the waters
None the less after reading your last posts I believe we are in the same camp, this whole PDA thing is too semantical... I say PDA you say DLW but it is the same device we all want to see. I just hope sooner than 5 years I have too much junk and not enough pockets
mischief
macrumors 68030
It seems we're all blowing the same tune, just different parts of the piece.
Yes, Apple will expand what is now iPod into exactly what's implied in the name.
An MP3 player was the simplest basic app that had the widest appeal. The technology behind iPod will support much more versatility than MP3's alone.
Yes, we will of course be seeing major advancements in the desktop/portable arena but I think Apple's approach is headed in the direction of IBM's modular computer form factor.
IBM has a product available for liscencing that's a module holding the drive, processor, video HW and RAM. This module is fitted via a unique socket into either a desktop, portable or Tablet shell.
I think Apple's headed in a more conservative direction:
Each user gets an iPod. Each iPod contains a bootable system, the suite of iApps, iPod SW, MP3's and personal data. The various computers throughout an office or home rebootable from the iPod so all personal Data stays where it is and your prefs are always the same. With a 20Gb iPod this would be practical.
With the iPod model Apple needn't use so many custom parts and the machines can be used even without an iPod. Switching to FW2 would be neccessary to make this practical though.
I'm still convinced Apple is headed toward adding a stylus to their displays. Apple has an amazing amount of R&D into ergonomics and diversifying input would naturalize the interface.
Of course I also believe that design and marketing are 2 separate things, iPod sells better as an MP3 player to non-Geeks and it's exclusivity attracts customers. Making a PC version or even developing a player for M$ would be like admitting defeat.
Yes, Apple will expand what is now iPod into exactly what's implied in the name.
An MP3 player was the simplest basic app that had the widest appeal. The technology behind iPod will support much more versatility than MP3's alone.
Yes, we will of course be seeing major advancements in the desktop/portable arena but I think Apple's approach is headed in the direction of IBM's modular computer form factor.
IBM has a product available for liscencing that's a module holding the drive, processor, video HW and RAM. This module is fitted via a unique socket into either a desktop, portable or Tablet shell.
I think Apple's headed in a more conservative direction:
Each user gets an iPod. Each iPod contains a bootable system, the suite of iApps, iPod SW, MP3's and personal data. The various computers throughout an office or home rebootable from the iPod so all personal Data stays where it is and your prefs are always the same. With a 20Gb iPod this would be practical.
With the iPod model Apple needn't use so many custom parts and the machines can be used even without an iPod. Switching to FW2 would be neccessary to make this practical though.
I'm still convinced Apple is headed toward adding a stylus to their displays. Apple has an amazing amount of R&D into ergonomics and diversifying input would naturalize the interface.
Of course I also believe that design and marketing are 2 separate things, iPod sells better as an MP3 player to non-Geeks and it's exclusivity attracts customers. Making a PC version or even developing a player for M$ would be like admitting defeat.
Apple doesn't make low-end I said, you said:
Are you even listening to yourself? iPod is $399-$499. Don't bring up that "HD is the same $500" crap, i know that. iPod is still damn costly.
Are you even listening to yourself? iPod is $399-$499. Don't bring up that "HD is the same $500" crap, i know that. iPod is still damn costly.
iPod may be a poor example, because it's expensive by comparison with some competitors, but in iMac, iBook and EMac, Apple have gone very much 'low end' price-wise.
OK OK, I admit perhaps i'm just brewing contraversy. But i still think Apple will push the limit of the PDA, just as the iPod did for MP3 players. Although if they made a non-PDA a low powered device would make more sence (LCD with a Bluetooth/Airport card). One idea would be that it only runs display funct. off a nice GPU (Mobility Radeon/7500 32MB for example), and that all the CPU is done at the base computer. Dont know how well that'd work but it's an idea.
AmbitiousLemon
Moderator emeritus
i dont have time to say everything i want to say, but i wanted to comment that this is one fo the best onversations (well the last past i sort of skipped ahead) ive seen on MR in a good long time. i guess its because all the zealots (high posters) stay away from pda threads.
good to hear you newbies posting some great stuff. hope you stick around and confront the zealots more often.
on semantics. dead on. some people (apple included) dont want to call it a pda. i have started saying handheld. basically i want a wireless handheld that can function on its own or act as a wireless terminal for my desktop over lan or internet connections. and i take perfect handwriting recognition for granted since we had it back in 97 with the newton.
'neeways, gots to go keep the good vibes flowin'
-peace
good to hear you newbies posting some great stuff. hope you stick around and confront the zealots more often.
on semantics. dead on. some people (apple included) dont want to call it a pda. i have started saying handheld. basically i want a wireless handheld that can function on its own or act as a wireless terminal for my desktop over lan or internet connections. and i take perfect handwriting recognition for granted since we had it back in 97 with the newton.
'neeways, gots to go keep the good vibes flowin'
-peace
for the record i'm not a newb. I just post towards the end of the thread sometimes and i usually make my 1st (and 2nd/3rd/4th) post a good page long. I'm trying to keep them shorter now since i have so many cool icons i want to use at the big five-o (o)
i really grow tired of the apple pda stories ive seen them since the demise of the newton, the rise of the palm, and months prior to any MW Expo. They speculate on names iWalk, iPad, and even iPod, but iHavethelastlaugh. iAlwaysfindtheyreworng. And iWillbelieveitwhen iSeeit.
mischief
macrumors 68030
Yes, we ARE all blowing the same tune.
I'm not discounting the probability that Apple will do a wireless-tablet/display/terminal I'm just argueing Apple's design direction as a course of projection.
I think the PDA will get squashed by iPod and it's successors.The sub-notebook palmtop will evolve from Apple's present portables and Apple will be doing bluetooth and 802.11g as soon as they can.
I think we're going to see iMac G4 evolve into a base station with detatchable display/terminal a la "Mira".
I think Scribble is being added to OS X et al because Apple's going to add touch-screen capability and a stylus to ALL IT"S MACHINES.😀 😉
I think the Tower G4 assembly that replaces the present case will bear a striking resemblance to a combined X-serve and X-RAID.
I think Apple has MUCH more in store than simply building a better PC. Apple is attempting to saturate the *nix market and draw simultaniously from frustrated Wintel users with shiny, reliable toys that just so happen to be profoundly versatile, highly developable devices.
I'm not discounting the probability that Apple will do a wireless-tablet/display/terminal I'm just argueing Apple's design direction as a course of projection.
I think the PDA will get squashed by iPod and it's successors.The sub-notebook palmtop will evolve from Apple's present portables and Apple will be doing bluetooth and 802.11g as soon as they can.
I think we're going to see iMac G4 evolve into a base station with detatchable display/terminal a la "Mira".
I think Scribble is being added to OS X et al because Apple's going to add touch-screen capability and a stylus to ALL IT"S MACHINES.😀 😉
I think the Tower G4 assembly that replaces the present case will bear a striking resemblance to a combined X-serve and X-RAID.
I think Apple has MUCH more in store than simply building a better PC. Apple is attempting to saturate the *nix market and draw simultaniously from frustrated Wintel users with shiny, reliable toys that just so happen to be profoundly versatile, highly developable devices.
Re: Yes, we ARE all blowing the same tune.
They may add the capability(meaning necessary api's) but I don't think we're going to see all of the systems shipping with these features. It's ok to think different but not on a level customers won't have a need for. I honestly think they're looking for the handwriting side to help them in working their way further in niche markets such as kiosks and custom oem hardware. They've got the OS, a fast development turnaround time environment with objective c and even java, so they need to add support for various "special" devices. This is their way of entering the business market under the radar of many folks.
We also have to consider the handwriting recognition coupled with a good hardware solution could make Apple a hero again in the education market.
For the typical consumer market imac and even PowerMac I don't see it meaning much of anything except to talk about.
They may add the capability(meaning necessary api's) but I don't think we're going to see all of the systems shipping with these features. It's ok to think different but not on a level customers won't have a need for. I honestly think they're looking for the handwriting side to help them in working their way further in niche markets such as kiosks and custom oem hardware. They've got the OS, a fast development turnaround time environment with objective c and even java, so they need to add support for various "special" devices. This is their way of entering the business market under the radar of many folks.
We also have to consider the handwriting recognition coupled with a good hardware solution could make Apple a hero again in the education market.
For the typical consumer market imac and even PowerMac I don't see it meaning much of anything except to talk about.