Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I'm 27, I've spent 15 years in tech - my opinions aren't based on my own personal use, my habits have reverted to less technology/more living, due to over-exposure. My opinions are based on exposure to thousands of user habits and a broad range of os/device knowledge. Yours?

Living in the third world, where not everyone has a phone with apps, an HDTV with on-demand, an e-reader or a Netflix account.

Rich people might rule the roost, the men with the gold might make the rules, but most of the world still finds uses for DVDs, CDs, VHS, cassette tapes and all manner of physical media including real books, newspapers, magazines, etc.

Again, no big deal, there's always the external drive, but I don't see a fair comparison with a DVD/BD drive and floppies: the latter was limited in how much it could grow and store. Optical discs, who knows.
 
But it isn't as though the use of external drive is end of the world for many. Although there are few that may use the drive very frequently, most that I know use the drive on just select occasions. And let's face it. Like floppy disks before it, DVDs and CDs are legacy. And this legacy support occupies fairly substantial space on very portable Macs. For those that need this legacy access frequently, they have a choice of spending $79 for external SuperDrive or up to $200 more for 13" MacBook Pro.

Granted, this sort of options isn't going to help "Macs are expensive" reputation, but Apple has traditionally been very quick to drop legacy support.
Externals are all good and well. But not if you use your optical drive on a regular basis. For me it would be one more thing to carry around which at this point is tucked away inside my machine. I don't subscribe to Apples thinner and thinner approach. Anyways if they took it out I doubt they would do anything other than make it even thinner.
 
It's seriously foolish to think the MacBook Air would replace the MacBook. They are two different products for two different markets.

The MacBook Air, despite what some think, cannot be a full time computer for most people. Storage space is too small and too difficult to upgrade, no optical disc drive, significantly slower processors, no upgradeable RAM. It's just not something that can be a full blown system.

The MacBook, however, is. It has an optical drive. Despite what the overly vocal minority thinks, optical discs are still extremely important. Especially to the MacBook's target audience, college students, who rely on their computer for entertainment AND work. The MacBook has significantly faster processors than the MBA, upgradeable HDD, upgradeable RAM, and a larger screen.

The MacBook Air is more of a companion product unless you severely limit what you do with your computer. The MacBook is a full fledged computer.

As far as Blu Ray, I don't believe it will ever achieve the market penetration that DVD did. The adoption rate is much slower that it was for DVD at the same relative stage, and with competition from streaming, there are many (like myself) who would prefer the convenience of a "physical media-free" existence.

Actually, you couldn't be any more wrong. blu-ray is being adopted at more than twice the rate DVD was adopted back in the day.

There are those of us who care about quality as well. There isn't a streaming service out there that even matches the quality of a properly upscaled DVD, and sound quality isn't anywhere near as good as old DVD audio, and light years behind blu-ray disc. Those sub-DVD quality bit-rates for audio on streaming video are downright terrible. Reminds me of old matrixed Dolby Pro-Logic on VHS tapes.

Then theres other things to consider too. Most US (and world) internet connections are capped with limited bandwidth. In the US you'll generally just get an angry phone call, unless you're on AT&T. Then you WILL get hit with overages. Overages and disconnects are normal in other parts of the world. Theres also the issue of speed. Again, bit-rate comes into play. Blu-ray video peaks at 45Mbps, and uses the same H.264 encoding Apple does for iTunes video. iTunes video peaks at about 4Mbps for 720p.

And when it comes to downloading video? No thanks. Takes a lot longer to download an iTunes "HD" movie on my real world 30Mbps connection than it does for me to drive to the Red Box down the street and rent the blu-ray disc. Plus the blu-ray disc only costs $1.50 versus the $5+ iTunes charges.

Plus all of these streaming services try to lock you into certain devices and such. Want iTunes streaming/movie rentals? Apple hardware or bust. Same thing with Microsoft or Sony services. Need an Xbox or PS.

With a blu-ray disc I can play it on practically anything .

Physical media isn't going anywhere for a long long time.

But I got tired of storing huge numbers of discs, physically retrieving them and inserting them in a player, and wading thru ads and menus, etc. With terabytes of external storage, Apple TV, AirPlay, iTunes, and Netflix, I just serve up whatever I want whenever I want.

Except for the fact that Netflix streaming library is terrible. Seriously, I don't see why anyone pays for it. Unless you like B quality movies and reruns of TV shows you've probably already seen dozens of times in syndication before they make it to Netflix.

Now consider the revolution in streaming that has accelerated since the introduction of the iPhone in 2007. We now have iPad, iTunes, and, soon, iCloud. Are they perfect? No. We need more bandwidth. We need 1080p. We need more accessibility to broadband and WiFi. Is it expensive? Perhaps. I cut Cable TV ($150 per month) and went to NetFlix ($8 per month), but yes, there is a significant hardware investment, not to mention broadband costs. But remember, the first VHS players were over $1000. I expect streaming quality will go up as costs go down.

First of all, why were you paying $150 a month for cable? My 30/25 internet service + over 200 channels for TV is only $75 or so with equipment rental, no contracts.

But anyway, every major ISP in the US at least has a major stake in traditional video revenue now. AT&T is imposing overages, Time Warner Cable is still salivating over the idea of overages (which they tried before, $1 per GB but backed off because of consumer uproar), Comcast hasn't raised their caps in 3 years, and other cable services are imposing caps as well. Streaming won't be able to take off unless theres some sort of government regulation that ends the government sanction duopolies in most neighborhoods and reverses decisions made under Bush to, once again, force incumbents to open their lines to third party service providers at reasonable cost.

All I'm saying is - 20 years is a long time. Like i said, you make me pause on the video game issue, but not enough to sway me completely. I say less than 20 years

I also want to point out the fact that server capacity would have to increase dramatically along with many other changes made. A good point to this argument is Steam. During their Summer sale I bought "Grand Theft Auto 4: Complete Edition" for $10. Even though I have 30Mbps down real world, it took a full 16 hours to download the game because their servers were getting slammed. Streaming cannot replace physical media until the quality can equal blu-ray in terms of both video AND audio and the servers can push out that video at full bandwidth without hiccups or becoming bogged down.
 
I also want to point out the fact that server capacity would have to increase dramatically along with many other changes made. A good point to this argument is Steam. During their Summer sale I bought "Grand Theft Auto 4: Complete Edition" for $10. Even though I have 30Mbps down real world, it took a full 16 hours to download the game because their servers were getting slammed. Streaming cannot replace physical media until the quality can equal blu-ray in terms of both video AND audio and the servers can push out that video at full bandwidth without hiccups or becoming bogged down.
Change your server location. The Ukraine appears to be popular. I have an associated image but I am too lazy to remove the profanity.
 
Movement to ROM-Less laptops and supply chain streamlining, I like their thinking! :apple:
 
Optical drives are already dead - there are some niche uses for them, but the masses no longer require them.

People don't care about being able to play DVDs on their laptops, they have Netflix on their iPads. I'm actually pretty surprised music CDs are still being sold in stores, give it a couple years.

You're right, optical media is dead. Excuse me as I need to tell the billions of people in China, Brazil, and India that.
 
Even after the new MacBook airs come out, I don't think they'll get rid of the MacBook yet... Although i wouldn't mind a redesign.

They still need an entry level MacBook, and that will not be the air for most people. Not yet. Despite the vocal minority, MOST people use and want built in optical drives. Even if they don't use them often. And I say this out of experience. I've sold hundreds of MacBooks of all types, and the air is something many people will not consider, for a variety of reasons. Optical drives is one of them.

I think they should reduce the price point of the MacBook. I doubt that will happen, but it will allow more people to get into the Mac world... And $1000 for a core 2 duo with 2 gigs of ram is a bad bad deal, especially in that plastic case!
 
As a frugal person,

I want to buy a MBP or MBA right now but I think I'll wait for 2012 refreshes. I'll consider the upcoming MBA if I can get a 500 GB SSD without getting into the price range for 13/15 inch MBP. Personally though I haven't used my optical drive in ages and this is just on PC.
 
I don't consider an 11" MacBook Air to be a direct replacement for the white MacBook just because it costs the same. There are just too many trade-offs. It's a different kind of computer. Sacrifices are made for the sake of smaller size and portability.

The 13" MacBook Air makes a better replacement, but then you have to consider that you are paying more for it than the 13" MacBook Pro and getting a lesser computer. Yes, lesser in terms of weight, but also in terms of features. I really don't understand why I'm supposed to want to pay more for a MacBook Air than a MacBook Pro when the specs are so much worse on the Air.

I think they should offer a Core i3 version of the 13" MacBook Pro and price it around $1100 or something.
 
Last edited:
Living in the third world, where not everyone has a phone with apps, an HDTV with on-demand, an e-reader or a Netflix account.

Rich people might rule the roost, the men with the gold might make the rules, but most of the world still finds uses for DVDs, CDs, VHS, cassette tapes and all manner of physical media including real books, newspapers, magazines, etc.

Again, no big deal, there's always the external drive, but I don't see a fair comparison with a DVD/BD drive and floppies: the latter was limited in how much it could grow and store. Optical discs, who knows.

Spent a couple months in India last year, it related. Their infrastructure is definitely ready to move away from optical drives.
 
It's seriously foolish to think the MacBook Air would replace the MacBook. They are two different products for two different markets.

The MacBook Air, despite what some think, cannot be a full time computer for most people. Storage space is too small and too difficult to upgrade, no optical disc drive, significantly slower processors, no upgradeable RAM. It's just not something that can be a full blown system.

The MacBook, however, is. It has an optical drive. Despite what the overly vocal minority thinks, optical discs are still extremely important. Especially to the MacBook's target audience, college students, who rely on their computer for entertainment AND work. The MacBook has significantly faster processors than the MBA, upgradeable HDD, upgradeable RAM, and a larger screen.

The MacBook Air is more of a companion product unless you severely limit what you do with your computer. The MacBook is a full fledged computer.



Actually, you couldn't be any more wrong. blu-ray is being adopted at more than twice the rate DVD was adopted back in the day.

There are those of us who care about quality as well. There isn't a streaming service out there that even matches the quality of a properly upscaled DVD, and sound quality isn't anywhere near as good as old DVD audio, and light years behind blu-ray disc. Those sub-DVD quality bit-rates for audio on streaming video are downright terrible. Reminds me of old matrixed Dolby Pro-Logic on VHS tapes.

Then theres other things to consider too. Most US (and world) internet connections are capped with limited bandwidth. In the US you'll generally just get an angry phone call, unless you're on AT&T. Then you WILL get hit with overages. Overages and disconnects are normal in other parts of the world. Theres also the issue of speed. Again, bit-rate comes into play. Blu-ray video peaks at 45Mbps, and uses the same H.264 encoding Apple does for iTunes video. iTunes video peaks at about 4Mbps for 720p.

And when it comes to downloading video? No thanks. Takes a lot longer to download an iTunes "HD" movie on my real world 30Mbps connection than it does for me to drive to the Red Box down the street and rent the blu-ray disc. Plus the blu-ray disc only costs $1.50 versus the $5+ iTunes charges.

Plus all of these streaming services try to lock you into certain devices and such. Want iTunes streaming/movie rentals? Apple hardware or bust. Same thing with Microsoft or Sony services. Need an Xbox or PS.

With a blu-ray disc I can play it on practically anything .

Physical media isn't going anywhere for a long long time.



Except for the fact that Netflix streaming library is terrible. Seriously, I don't see why anyone pays for it. Unless you like B quality movies and reruns of TV shows you've probably already seen dozens of times in syndication before they make it to Netflix.



First of all, why were you paying $150 a month for cable? My 30/25 internet service + over 200 channels for TV is only $75 or so with equipment rental, no contracts.

But anyway, every major ISP in the US at least has a major stake in traditional video revenue now. AT&T is imposing overages, Time Warner Cable is still salivating over the idea of overages (which they tried before, $1 per GB but backed off because of consumer uproar), Comcast hasn't raised their caps in 3 years, and other cable services are imposing caps as well. Streaming won't be able to take off unless theres some sort of government regulation that ends the government sanction duopolies in most neighborhoods and reverses decisions made under Bush to, once again, force incumbents to open their lines to third party service providers at reasonable cost.



I also want to point out the fact that server capacity would have to increase dramatically along with many other changes made. A good point to this argument is Steam. During their Summer sale I bought "Grand Theft Auto 4: Complete Edition" for $10. Even though I have 30Mbps down real world, it took a full 16 hours to download the game because their servers were getting slammed. Streaming cannot replace physical media until the quality can equal blu-ray in terms of both video AND audio and the servers can push out that video at full bandwidth without hiccups or becoming bogged down.

I see what you're getting at, but listen carefully.. I've been where you are - I've thought tha my own image habits dictated the relevance of the usange habits of others, thouht everone needed x amount of pecs otherwise they weren't relevant users - then I grew up and began to see the true nature of co putting.

Light CPUs, smaller amounts of ram, smaller screens and lower amounts of storage are enough for MOST users.

Dvd is dead. Bd is dead. Bd will have a place with ht enthusiasts for.. 3 years? After that we'll see purely digital delivery (we had better not see another hc bd-ish format.. Completely pointless)
 
I don't feel that they'll discontinue it. Maybe they'll drop the price to $899 ro whatnot? Especially if they update the MacBook Air's specs it'll fit in that price range. Unless they go ahead and update the white MacBook as well. As others have mentioned the $999 air has an 11" screen, no optical drive, etc, so I thinkt here may still be a place for this MacBook... somewhere.

Core 2 Duos CPUs seem a bit stale at this point, yes they're still quick, maybe they're best for a lower-end model if need be. Apple is always saying they are building the best machines they can. So everything should at least have an i3 or i5 processor in them. :)

core 2 duo production will be phased out by intel by the end of this yr...
 
After all this fuss, they would be smart to drop the USB SuperDrive to $49.. but I still can't take the discontinuing of the MB seriously. But surely, if they discontinue it, they might as well take out the SuperDrive out of the MBP next year.
 
It's seriously foolish to think the MacBook Air would replace the MacBook. They are two different products for two different markets.

The MacBook Air, despite what some think, cannot be a full time computer for most people. Storage space is too small and too difficult to upgrade, no optical disc drive, significantly slower processors, no upgradeable RAM. It's just not something that can be a full blown system.

The MacBook, however, is. It has an optical drive. Despite what the overly vocal minority thinks, optical discs are still extremely important. Especially to the MacBook's target audience, college students, who rely on their computer for entertainment AND work. The MacBook has significantly faster processors than the MBA, upgradeable HDD, upgradeable RAM, and a larger screen.

The MacBook Air is more of a companion product unless you severely limit what you do with your computer. The MacBook is a full fledged computer.



Actually, you couldn't be any more wrong. blu-ray is being adopted at more than twice the rate DVD was adopted back in the day.

There are those of us who care about quality as well. There isn't a streaming service out there that even matches the quality of a properly upscaled DVD, and sound quality isn't anywhere near as good as old DVD audio, and light years behind blu-ray disc. Those sub-DVD quality bit-rates for audio on streaming video are downright terrible. Reminds me of old matrixed Dolby Pro-Logic on VHS tapes.

Then theres other things to consider too. Most US (and world) internet connections are capped with limited bandwidth. In the US you'll generally just get an angry phone call, unless you're on AT&T. Then you WILL get hit with overages. Overages and disconnects are normal in other parts of the world. Theres also the issue of speed. Again, bit-rate comes into play. Blu-ray video peaks at 45Mbps, and uses the same H.264 encoding Apple does for iTunes video. iTunes video peaks at about 4Mbps for 720p.

And when it comes to downloading video? No thanks. Takes a lot longer to download an iTunes "HD" movie on my real world 30Mbps connection than it does for me to drive to the Red Box down the street and rent the blu-ray disc. Plus the blu-ray disc only costs $1.50 versus the $5+ iTunes charges.

Plus all of these streaming services try to lock you into certain devices and such. Want iTunes streaming/movie rentals? Apple hardware or bust. Same thing with Microsoft or Sony services. Need an Xbox or PS.

With a blu-ray disc I can play it on practically anything .

Physical media isn't going anywhere for a long long time.



Except for the fact that Netflix streaming library is terrible. Seriously, I don't see why anyone pays for it. Unless you like B quality movies and reruns of TV shows you've probably already seen dozens of times in syndication before they make it to Netflix.



First of all, why were you paying $150 a month for cable? My 30/25 internet service + over 200 channels for TV is only $75 or so with equipment rental, no contracts.

But anyway, every major ISP in the US at least has a major stake in traditional video revenue now. AT&T is imposing overages, Time Warner Cable is still salivating over the idea of overages (which they tried before, $1 per GB but backed off because of consumer uproar), Comcast hasn't raised their caps in 3 years, and other cable services are imposing caps as well. Streaming won't be able to take off unless theres some sort of government regulation that ends the government sanction duopolies in most neighborhoods and reverses decisions made under Bush to, once again, force incumbents to open their lines to third party service providers at reasonable cost.

I also want to point out the fact that server capacity would have to increase dramatically along with many other changes made. A good point to this argument is Steam. During their Summer sale I bought "Grand Theft Auto 4: Complete Edition" for $10. Even though I have 30Mbps down real world, it took a full 16 hours to download the game because their servers were getting slammed. Streaming cannot replace physical media until the quality can equal blu-ray in terms of both video AND audio and the servers can push out that video at full bandwidth without hiccups or becoming bogged down.

Tell that to people who use one as such..

I can function on a 60GB SSD, with external storage

I have a C2D and rarely get above 30% usage, we're not all rendering moves etc. nor are we ripping/transcoding DVD's constantly.

Are important to you

Are the most likely to use streaming

Not really

If those things give you a warm fuzzy then you are correct

Not mine, I live in "the world"

I like that method

I like it, but then I like doumentaries.

This will be fixed by either a lawsuit or govt regulation. I can see Apple suing over a bandwith cap. The make to much money off the app store and are moving obviously into the cloud MS and Google are doing the same.

I can't for you, but it already has for me. It's the same with books I will not buy any more non-ebook. Magazines are about to follow.
 
Last edited:
I really hope Apple should "re-introduce" the MacBook with these specs.

$699

2.1 GHz Intel Core i3 "Sandy Bridge"
2GB of RAM
320GB 5400rpm drive OR 64GB SSD
Thunderbolt port
Two USB Ports
Gigabit Ethernet
FaceTime Camera
Bluetooth
6-hour battery (upgradeable to 7-hour)
Intel HD 3000 Integrated Graphics
1280x800 resolution LED-backlit screen (high-res option available)

$999

2.2 GHz Intel Core i3 "Sandy Bridge"
4GB of RAM
320GB 5400rpm drive OR 64GB SSD
Thunderbolt port
Two USB Ports
Gigabit Ethernet
SD Card Slot
FaceTime HD Camera
Bluetooth
7-hour battery
Intel HD 3000 Integrated Graphics
1440x900 high-resolution LED-backlit screen
Black color available
 
I really hope Apple should "re-introduce" the MacBook with these specs.

$699

2.1 GHz Intel Core i3 "Sandy Bridge"
2GB of RAM
320GB 5400rpm drive OR 64GB SSD
Thunderbolt port
Two USB Ports
Gigabit Ethernet
FaceTime Camera
Bluetooth
6-hour battery (upgradeable to 7-hour)
Intel HD 3000 Integrated Graphics
1280x800 resolution LED-backlit screen (high-res option available)

$999

2.2 GHz Intel Core i3 "Sandy Bridge"
4GB of RAM
320GB 5400rpm drive OR 64GB SSD
Thunderbolt port
Two USB Ports
Gigabit Ethernet
SD Card Slot
FaceTime HD Camera
Bluetooth
7-hour battery
Intel HD 3000 Integrated Graphics
1440x900 high-resolution LED-backlit screen
Black color available

To be honest, there is nothing worth $300 in the high-end MB of your specs. $799 might be plausible, though I doubt we will see cheaper MacBook.
 
I really hope Apple should "re-introduce" the MacBook with these specs.

$699

2.1 GHz Intel Core i3 "Sandy Bridge"
2GB of RAM
320GB 5400rpm drive OR 64GB SSD
Thunderbolt port
Two USB Ports
Gigabit Ethernet
FaceTime Camera
Bluetooth
6-hour battery (upgradeable to 7-hour)
Intel HD 3000 Integrated Graphics
1280x800 resolution LED-backlit screen (high-res option available)

Apple aren't really interested in the $699 laptop market, they want the high end stuff. Asking for a $899 laptop is a bit more realistic.
 
Apple aren't really interested in the $699 laptop market, they want the high end stuff. Asking for a $899 laptop is a bit more realistic.

They could probably sell the $699 as an education-only system like the $899 iMac (which I don't if they still sell it).
 
By that logic tape players should still be around. People don't make their media decisions based on what their car can play. If anything they do it the other way around.

Oh, and last time I "used" my iMac's optical drive was when I missed the SD slot and put the SD card part way into the drive.

I still have cassette players in my car and office... and I still buy cassettes...
 
I still have cassette players in my car and office... and I still buy cassettes...

Kids don't know what cassettes are. There will always be people who hold onto eol products, clingers, if you will. I'm sure there's someone, somewhere, watching a beta- max right now.
 
I also want to point out the fact that server capacity would have to increase dramatically along with many other changes made. A good point to this argument is Steam. During their Summer sale I bought "Grand Theft Auto 4: Complete Edition" for $10. Even though I have 30Mbps down real world, it took a full 16 hours to download the game because their servers were getting slammed. Streaming cannot replace physical media until the quality can equal blu-ray in terms of both video AND audio and the servers can push out that video at full bandwidth without hiccups or becoming bogged down.

not wanting to quote your entire thread, you make fantastic points and your final was the most cogent. streaming should be considered an alternative, especially in the world of capped bandwidth. i remember the good old days when ISPs were not bandwidth cops. funny how many companies are selling over the net streaming products while ISPs are limiting bandwidth at the same time.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.