Apple Pitches Vision Pro as Healthcare Solution

[Nuno Lopes]

I think mixed reality has a lot of applications. There are solutions that look a lot more patient friendly that Apple Vision.

Microsoft HoloLens

Landing page for Microsoft HoloLens.

www.microsoft.com

PS: How much will Apple charge for remote medical consultation? 15% of the consultation?

 

[ChrisA]

The best use of VR would be a radiologist looking at 3D data from X-ray tomography. The machine creates 3D data but today the software has to convert this to a 2D image so it can be displayed on a screen. Typically it slices the data. But what if the radiologist could see the full 3-D image and with gestures make cuts and open it up and look inside? Also, these doctors already spend $3K on the high-end monitors they use, so a $3K VR goggle wouild not be a big deal for them

As for end users? They don't need it. VR might be fun but it would not let them do anything they could not do without it.

 

[darngooddesign]

Pffft… Apple’s been in healthcare since the 80s.

 

[citysnaps]

Not surprising, and was no doubt deemed a market for Apple to pursue way before work started on AVP.

It has been discussed here in the past by a few people who recognized the potential of AVP.

 

[BuffaloTF]

It's not the real you, doctor, nurse, etc though. It's a digital persona of that person.

Apologies. I see a missing word or 2 has made this vague. A teleconferencing app (for an iPad or your computer) would be where this is best deployed… so that each party sees the real other person.

 

[Realityck]

Apple today highlighted the Vision Pro's ability to aid the healthcare industry, showcasing a wide range of apps now available on the visionOS App Store.

There are already AR professional grade usage with surgery applications but this more casual portrayal of AVP being used by a doctor is not realistic. In an office he uses a PC to show imagery which is not the usage of a AVP with patients.

 

[fathobbit]

And if your doctor was a radiologist using this instead of other screens to review your scans?

I would ask if it’s an FDA-approved diagnostic radiology display, if it’s DICOM-compliant, and is the software is HIPAA-compliant?
Also I would not appreciate meeting with the radiologist and having her wearing a pair of goggles and viewing my images. How can she explain what she’s seeing if I also can’t see the screen?

 

[Realityck]

I think mixed reality has a lot of applications. There are solutions that look a lot more patient friendly that Apple Vision.

Microsoft HoloLens

Landing page for Microsoft HoloLens.

www.microsoft.com

All the current medical applications are not mixed reality based. They are augmented reality based usage where as your YouTube example depicts are using overlaid medical imagery to more accurately perform surgery on patients similar to marking a growth inside a patients body with a metal bead or dye to show exactly where something is that needs to be worked on, so either surgical, cryoablation, or pinpoint radiation activity could be precisely used.

 

[DrMotownMac]

won't happen in the U.K our government is run by old people.

Well, here in the US, we don't exactly have a spring chicken living in the White House right now.

 

[DrMotownMac]

Well, here in the US, we don't exactly have a spring chicken living in the White House right now.

View attachment 2358056

Then again, the guy running against him isn't much better....

 

[v0lume4]

I would be asking for another doctor if I saw mine wearing this microwave strapped to his/her head.

Came here to post something very similar. We are on the same page.

 

[thewill586]

A scrub nurse wore the AVP during the surgery. Based on the news, it sounded like AVP helped to identify the right tool to hand to the surgeon: surgeon asks for tool x; AVP points out the tool; scrubs picks the right tool. Hopefully, the software helps to track the tools returned as well as none should be left in the patient.

 

[neuropsychguy]

I would ask if it’s an FDA-approved diagnostic radiology display, if it’s DICOM-compliant, and is the software is HIPAA-compliant?
Also I would not appreciate meeting with the radiologist and having her wearing a pair of goggles and viewing my images. How can she explain what she’s seeing if I also can’t see the screen?

Are you a radiologist or are you just throwing words around because you don't like the Apple Vision Pro for whatever reason?

The radiologists I collaborate with at a major academic medical center in the United States just use normal computer screens (mostly normal Dell Ultrasharps). No "FDA-approval" needed. The displays are factory calibrated (not anything special for radiologists, just the standard calibration), but the AVP easily has a display as good as or better than what most radiologists are using.

There are displays that are factory calibrated to DICOM files to a set luminance of 250cd/m2 (e.g., https://www.monitors.com/products/hp-clinical-review-display), but they are absolutely not necessary. Again, I know our radiology department just orders standard monitors. Calibration is done on site by setting them all the same luminance (but the radiologists will change luminance as needed).

Also, what do DICOM files have to do with the monitor? Why does it have to be DICOM compliant? Your statement is like asking if a monitor is TIFF compliant. A monitor can display a TIFF if the computer can. DICOMs are just medical image files that can be viewed, even for medical service, on any display.

"is the software is HIPAA-compliant?" That's up to the apps used. The device is encrypted and secured. It's as "HIPAA-compliant" as any other modern computer with an encrypted drive and good password protection.

Also, you actually meet with a radiologist in person? That's not common. Usually they give the reports to the referring physician and do not interact directly with patients. There's a reason there is research saying, "Hey, it's possible for radiologists to give feedback directly to patients" (e.g., https://doi.org/10.2214/AJR.17.18327). Radiologists often are in a room full of computer screens reviewing images and sending reports back to the referring physician.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

All the current medical applications are not mixed reality based. They are augmented reality based usage where as your YouTube example depicts are using overlaid medical imagery to more accurately perform surgery on patients similar to marking a growth inside a patients body with a metal bead or dye to show exactly where something is that needs to be worked on, so either surgical, cryoablation, or pinpoint radiation activity could be precisely used.

The difference is either digital objects interact with the physical objects or not. I that respect I did not see much difference between Apple Marketing videos and what the Microsoft's except one is already depicting on the job applications. Also to me, the actual transparent visor of HoloLens looked more practical ... Can't say from actual experience with either.

 

[BR3W]

Been using VR in mental health for at least the last five years, as well

 

[return2sendai]

this will never come to Germany. Too many privacy concerns and what hospital has budgets for "toys" like these. We still use fax and are not allowed to send anything over e-mail.

I can think of several hospitals that can budget for the Vision Pro. But they are all on Netflix and Amazon medical dramas.

 

[fathobbit]

Are you a radiologist or are you just throwing words around because you don't like the Apple Vision Pro for whatever reason?

The radiologists I collaborate with at a major academic medical center in the United States just use normal computer screens (mostly normal Dell Ultrasharps). No "FDA-approval" needed. The displays are factory calibrated (not anything special for radiologists, just the standard calibration), but the AVP easily has a display as good as or better than what most radiologists are using.

There are displays that are factory calibrated to DICOM files to a set luminance of 250cd/m2 (e.g., https://www.monitors.com/products/hp-clinical-review-display), but they are absolutely not necessary. Again, I know our radiology department just orders standard monitors. Calibration is done on site by setting them all the same luminance (but the radiologists will change luminance as needed).

Also, what do DICOM files have to do with the monitor? Why does it have to be DICOM compliant? Your statement is like asking if a monitor is TIFF compliant. A monitor can display a TIFF if the computer can. DICOMs are just medical image files that can be viewed, even for medical service, on any display.

"is the software is HIPAA-compliant?" That's up to the apps used. The device is encrypted and secured. It's as "HIPAA-compliant" as any other modern computer with an encrypted drive and good password protection.

Also, you actually meet with a radiologist in person? That's not common. Usually they give the reports to the referring physician and do not interact directly with patients. There's a reason there is research saying, "Hey, it's possible for radiologists to give feedback directly to patients" (e.g., https://doi.org/10.2214/AJR.17.18327). Radiologists often are in a room full of computer screens reviewing images and sending reports back to the referring physician.

I do medical informatics at a hospital. I have nothing against the Vision Pro, just bringing up some points I think are important.
The monitors they use here are specifically made for diagnostic radiology, most have some sort of self-calibrating features, and definitely have some sort of FDA clearance/approval certification.
I’m sure you can do a quick google search for DICOM grayscale display standards because it’s more than just a file format.
Weird that you think all radiologists across the entire specialty have no patient contact.
Clearly you have had a very different experience with radiologists wherever you work.

 

[boswald]

I absolutely adore that “frosted glass” UI.

 

[Bones13]

Let me know when EPIC integration is done, with PACS…

 

[NT1440]

That was fast:

eXeX and Neurosurgeon Dr. Robert Masson Achieve World First Using Apple Vision Pro

/PRNewswire/ -- eXeX™, a leader in artificial intelligence and mixed reality enhanced surgical performance, along with renowned neurosurgeon Dr. Robert Masson,...

www.prnewswire.com

 

[svish]

Lot of work has to be done before it becomes mainstream. But has a potential in the healthcare field.

 

[Tailpike1153]

I

Will need to be bug free before they use it in a hospital 😅

I wish I could say that various systems in hospitals could just work. Proximity alarm system going off weekly because the R2-D2 resupply/garbage droid got stuck coming out of the elevator creating a door fault. Nurse call lights won't turnoff and randomly decide to call the nurse desk. Building automation is down. It's Monday and I can't login to the EMR cause I just changed my AD password. It's Tuesday so Outlook is acting funky. Pneumatic tube systems are down cause somebody tried to manual override and send a "pig" without a correct destination id. I have a job largely because of the bugs in hospital systems.