Apple Planning for Employees to Return to Corporate Offices Soon

[Seanm87]

Maybe you should stop reading CNN and MSNBC

Maybe you can learn something here

https://twitter.com/x/status/1259836001222090753

Sorry, are you seriously telling people to treat Twitter as a credible source of information?

 

[justperry]

Modern air conditioning systems for business buildings like that are usually designed with HEPA filters that would take care of any virus hanging in the air. But I think a bigger concern is the design of the overall floorplan which encourages chance meetings and interactions.

Good point, it's not the airconditioners themselves, just the flow of air.

 

[Reason077]

The US could learn how to get a 30% higher mortality rate from a 30% lower infection rate, I suppose...

It’s unlikely that Sweden really has a 30% lower infection rate than the US.

Any comparisons or analysis based on infection rates are very dubious because testing rates, methods, and protocols vary greatly around the world.

Deaths are a more accurate statistic to compare, but even that is subject to differences in reporting methodology. And needs to be considered in the context of demographics, population density, etc.

 

[gnasher729]

The US could learn how to get a 30% higher mortality rate from a 30% lower infection rate, I suppose...

California, I guess, could learn to increase their infection rate by 150% and their mortality rate by 470%...

Keep in mind that we _know_ mortality rates (easy to count), but we do not actually know the infection rate. We only know the rate of _confirmed_ infections. Better testing means more _confirmed_ infections and therefore lower death rate _per confirmed infection_. Rate _per infection_ is unlikely to be changed.

In the UK people are worried because the rate of new confirmed infections doesn't go down (while the number of deaths _has_ halved since the worst time). Not realising that the rate of _confirmed_ infections goes up with more testing.

 

[threesixty360]

The central argument for the lockdowns (and "stopping the spread") was to prevent a spike in excess deaths due to the healthcare system becoming overwhelmed. However, the US healthcare system was *never* overwhelmed, nor anywhere even remotely close to it; there were some hospitals in NY/NJ, MI, and elsewhere which went on diversion, but that is not something which is unusual in times of high demand (such as after any other crisis or disaster). On the whole, there was a gross oversupply of available beds (and ventilators) within the US healthcare system versus the shortages which were forecast.

There is no question that the new coronavirus is a disease to be taken seriously, and it appears that our healthcare workers here in the US have done a great job in responding to it. From a public policy perspective, we probably would have done better (fewer deaths) to focus on locking down nursing homes and isolating patients at hospitals rather than stopping the economy. I doubt very much that most nursing home residents are riding the subways in NYC or working on the Apple campus, for example.

The USA is the size of a continent with states that are essentially individual countries. If we averaged out Europe and forgot that Germany, Italy and France were the different countries we would see a very different picture.

NY is the equivalent of Italy for example and the Germany maybe Idaho or somewhere in terms of outbreaks. Basically one size does not fit all.

The problem is that you have a federal system and a president who is hell bent on being in charge of everything when it suits him. So it’s all a distortion. The fact that NY is having it bad should not mean we see all of America should have the same remedies.

if anything maybe the virus has shown how ineffective the concept of federal power is when dealing with issues in individual states. Should states have more power and control over their budgets and procurement? Possibly. NYC was begging for PPE yet had given away 100s of billions in taxes to help other states and didn’t really get the help if needed in a timely fashion.

 

[iPadified]

Then why are so many people dying there? The only possible advantage is that their immunity means fewer deaths by the end of this, but I doubt it, especially if a vaccine is developed.

That is a very good question without a good answer.

 

[Glideslope]

I’ve been LOVING being able to work from home these past couple of months! I’m hoping to be able to keep it this way until Sep. 8th. Sounds like I might.

I'll wager if you're willing and your company can function in that way you'll be working from home this time next year.

 

[MrMichaelJames]

Its amazing when this topic comes up pretty much everywhere how many infectious disease experts, medical management experts and population experts we have on the internet! I truely did not know how many of you have credentials in these areas to even act like you all know better than the people that do this for a living and have been studying it their whole lives. And here I thought that we just likes computers! I'm beyond amazed. Is anyone here an vaccine expert as well? How about child care?

 

[throAU]

Sorry, are you seriously telling people to treat Twitter as a credible source of information?

The source isn't twitter, its a link to an official Swedish university site run by a Phd.

Twitter isn't a source, but it can be, and frequently is links to actual sites. Some of which are legitimate.

 

[iPadified]

Its amazing when this topic comes up pretty much everywhere how many infectious disease experts, medical management experts and population experts we have on the internet! I truely did not know how many of you have credentials in these areas to even act like you all know better than the people that do this for a living and have been studying it their whole lives. And here I thought that we just likes computers! I'm beyond amazed. Is anyone here an vaccine expert as well? How about child care?

I assume you are being sarcastic. The discussions here are mostly political on what is acceptable for a society and that is fine. People have right to have an opinion, at least in my country. It's also part of coping with a difficult situation.

 

[no_idea]

Companies should look into letting employees who can, and are willing to, permanently work from home, specially in areas where traffic is terrible like the SF Bay Area and LA. So much time and gas are wasted while sitting in traffic, plus all the stress and accidents it causes, it all could be avoided if more people just worked from home.

I think that will be a reality down the road. The problem today is that a lot of execs are from a different era where they think you can only be affective when assembling face to face. It’s an outdated and old school mentality. These execs also fear that when people work from home, productivity will go down because they will not be giving as much time as when they were at the office. Hopefully this changes soon, as I agree the time spent in traffic, gas wasted, is just not worth it. It’s an outdated way to work and needs to change for the better

 

[44267547]

At some point, the world has to continue to move forward, but being tactical in mind Given C/19, and that means returning to work in a different manner, but with adjusted considerations in terms of-i.e.-separation for the best possible practices in the workplace, different sanitary considerations, masking, perhaps meetings are conducted through web portals versus in person, Social distancing practices during break/lunch periods, etc. Those are all things Apple I can guarantee you is considering and they will take whatever Precautions necessary to move forward As a company with ‘safety first’, but daily activities will never be the same as they were three months ago.

 

[drcre8tive]

I have to return to work monday. I've been working remotely from home this entire time, and I don't really want to go back. I think I've proven my job doesn't require me to be physically be @work.

 

[bbeagle]

Working from home would definitely cut down on the Chinese spies ability to walk lab servers out of the building.

No - this would INCREASE the ability to spy, as there would be MORE 'labs' in MORE places. Say 20 engineers have access to the labs and do testing in these labs. If these 20 engineers are working at home, they still need products to physically test to do their jobs, so there would be, in effect, 20 home 'labs'. Easier to find one that is vulnerable.
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I have to return to work monday. I've been working remotely from home this entire time, and I don't really want to go back. I think I've proven my job doesn't require me to be physically be @work.

It all depends what the product you're developing is, and how you're doing it.

If you have clearly defined requirements, working remotely works great for many people. They're a lot more productive, and can work less hours to get something done.

If you are designing something (like Apple does in many of their divisions), you want to collaborate with others constantly. Bounce ideas off people on a whiteboard, show them things physically. In this case, being together in an office usually works better. Once the item has been designed and you need software to 'implement X feature in 2 months', then working from home is more ideal to some people.

 

[cocky jeremy]

The US could learn how to get a 30% higher mortality rate from a 30% lower infection rate, I suppose...

California, I guess, could learn to increase their infection rate by 150% and their mortality rate by 470%...

3,500 people dead in a country of 60,000,000. Super scary stuff.

 

[B4U]

The only CA automaker is Tesla, and they've reopened, which may be illegal.

You have no idea who else are in CA...

 

[christian_koehler]

I don't work for Apple, but for a medium sized (300 people) business in Germany.
Yes, we do design products.

We have tried many things during the past few weeks.

You are not limited to video conferencing or using code repositories from home.

Screen sharing with sketching or CAD applications with a simulatniois video call replaces a meeting in front of a whiteboard quite well.
But you can go far beyond that. We have tried virtual reality. We have tried 3D printers at home. Yes,
we have shared physical(!) prototypes and discussed them without leaving home office.

Yes, all of that is quite expirimental. But promising. We got better results than we expected.

You can do two things now:
a) Get back in the car and waste your time like you used to do.
b) Take the chance and get more creative.

Christian

If you are designing something (like Apple does in many of their divisions), you want to collaborate with others constantly. Bounce ideas off people on a whiteboard, show them things physically. In this case, being together in an office usually works better. Once the item has been designed and you need software to 'implement X feature in 2 months', then working from home is more ideal to some people.

 

[Baymowe335]

Sorry, are you seriously telling people to treat Twitter as a credible source of information?

Literally better than the 2 networks mentioned because it can be a link to factual text versus talking heads just giving their opinion constantly.
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3,500 people dead in a country of 60,000,000. Super scary stuff.

Make sure you only post percentages, for extra scary effect.

Yes, 32/100,000 is 33% more than 24/100,000, but it makes a hell of a lot more impact to just mention 33% higher.

 

[throAU]

3,500 people dead in a country of 60,000,000. Super scary stuff.

That's how many were killed on 9/11 roughly (in a country of 300 million) and the USA has spent the past 20 years bombing third world countries over it and spent billions/trillions on global surveillance since.

 

[Analog Kid]

Any comparisons or analysis based on infection rates are very dubious because testing rates, methods, and protocols vary greatly around the world.

Keep in mind that we _know_ mortality rates (easy to count), but we do not actually know the infection rate. We only know the rate of _confirmed_ infections. Better testing means more _confirmed_ infections and therefore lower death rate _per confirmed infection_. Rate _per infection_ is unlikely to be changed.

Fair point, and Sweden does indeed seem to be testing less than the US. That does kind of reinforce my argument though: there’s nothing (including breadth of testing) in the data I can see that suggests Sweden is a positive role model for Apple to follow.

 

[bbeagle]

Screen sharing with sketching or CAD applications with a simulatniois video call replaces a meeting in front of a whiteboard quite well.
But you can go far beyond that. We have tried virtual reality. We have tried 3D printers at home. Yes,
we have shared physical(!) prototypes and discussed them without leaving home office.

Yes, all of that is quite expirimental. But promising. We got better results than we expected.

That's interesting, Christian. I haven't used 3D printers before, but that's a good idea for certain designs.

I would imagine that a home office with a separate monitor (like up high above other monitors maybe) that can be used exclusively for meetings / one-on-one video conferences would help a lot. It would let me work like I'm used to as others come by my desk to ask questions.

I guess I need to find some software to replace a 'whiteboard' where any participant can update the whiteboard.

 

[compwiz1202]

Companies should look into letting employees who can, and are willing to, permanently work from home, specially in areas where traffic is terrible like the SF Bay Area and LA. So much time and gas are wasted while sitting in traffic, plus all the stress and accidents it causes, it all could be avoided if more people just worked from home.

I've said this for years along with having more four day or even three day works weeks if employees prefer.

 

[routine_analyst]

Gotta make use of that 5 billion dollar museum.

I think giving employees a choice to work at home is the smart long term route. We have proven that we can do our jobs in our home offices. My stress level has dropped dramatically now that I go from code > bed > code > bed > code > bed without ever having to sit in traffic or listen to Carly's annoying break room stories.

 

[Analog Kid]

Literally better than the 2 networks mentioned because it can be a link to factual text versus talking heads just giving their opinion constantly.

The data may have been factual, but the interpretation of it was dead wrong— and it was posted here by someone who didn’t understand the data but believed the interpretation. That is why using reputable sources is important.

Yes, 32/100,000 is 33% more than 24/100,000, but it makes a hell of a lot more impact to just mention 33% higher.

Or, you know, just use a succinct and well established method of relative comparison. My response was to the (mistaken) idea that Sweden has a lot to teach us as far as better responding to the disease. If your point now is that not enough people are dying to care about then that’s a non sequitur I don’t intend to pursue.

 

[rgbrock1]

While Sweden may have a higher per capita fatality rate than the US, it is highly unlikely that they have a low infection rate given the presumed rate of transmission for this virus. If Sweden's infection rate were in fact low, then it would counter the argument that "lockdowns" are necessary (or effective) to prevent the spread of infection. Lockdowns have been, on the other hand, effective at killing 33+ million jobs in the US (including thousands of health care workers who were and remain furloughed because of nearly-empty hospitals), subjecting both children and adults to additional domestic abuse, depriving children of a quality education, preventing timely health care for those with other critical illnesses, and increasing the rate of psychological illness and death from suicide--not to mention disrupting supply chains, putting thousands of small businesses out of business (a major part of supply chains), risking retirements, and creating a substantial, negative impact to the quality of life of almost everyone (including the elderly, whose time is otherwise limited apart from this virus). Despite what some people would hope, free money does absolutely nothing to solve or mitigate any of those problems.

With respect to lockdowns, we need only look at per capita hospitalization and fatality numbers for US states, some of which never locked down, some of which locked down early, and some of which locked down late. In short, there is no clear evidence shown in the reported data that lockdowns appreciably reduced the per capita rates of hospitalizations or deaths, although in some areas (such as NYC) the lockdowns may have contributed to an increase (though there are other factors as well). In any case, the median age of death in most states is >80, and a vast majority of fatalities involved not only advanced age, but multiple serious underlying conditions (the most fatal of which appears to be heart disease). In very few areas were hospitals overrun with COVID patients, especially in states where lockdowns were not done, or done late. The reported data does not provide a credible reason why most working-aged people should be sheltered in their homes.

Really, though, the biggest tragedy are the school-aged kids. According to CDC data along with data from other countries, this virus represents almost no risk to children (certainly much lower than the seasonal flu), and studies have shown that children are not a significant transmission vector to adults. There appears to be no good scientific reason to close the schools, and no reason to "protect" the children from a disease which is less fatal to them than the seasonal flu.

It would seem that testing for the active virus at this point is mostly meaningless apart from clinical treatment. Based on the serology sampling which has been done in the US, we know that significant portions of the population in certain areas have antibodies for the virus, though clearly more of this type of testing needs to be done. There would appear to be little honest purpose in the "test/isolate/contain" strategy at this point, because the genie was out of the bottle for at least 2 months (and likely longer) prior to any lockdowns, and virtually all areas have passed peak hospitalization and fatality numbers. If you work in an office and come down with COVID-19--assuming that you're actually symptomatic--it's virtually impossible to establish how much risk you present to others in your workplace without reliable serological test data from your coworkers. Without knowing the true infection rate (even ignoring other demographic risk data), it's tough to make a serious argument that an individual with a positive active virus test result presents a serious public health threat.

And finally, masks. Apple is apparently requiring masks in their retail stores (for employees and customers), as well as for those returning to corporate offices. I have seen no credible clinical studies which show that masks (except for N95 or similar respirators) have any appreciable impact on the spread of this or similar respiratory viruses; in fact, the CDC and WHO (and others) have published studies and statements which specifically conclude that masks have been proven ineffective at preventing the spread of respiratory viruses, and may even contribute to the spread due to improper practices of the wearer. Even masks which have been proven effective in preventing the spread of such diseases depend on proper protocols for use, which virtually no one outside of trained healthcare personnel appear to practice.

Let's face it, no one wants to get sick. Even with a head cold. That should be reason enough to practice good hygiene and take precautions which are proven to be effective in reducing the spread of *any* airborne disease. Personally, I think (and have always thought) that the "open concept, family-style" work areas are a bad idea. Collaboration is good, but everyone needs his or her own personal space and time alone to concentrate on job-related challenges, and you just don't get that when you're sitting at a big open-air table with a bunch of your coworkers every day. On the other hand, constant social isolation isn't healthy or productive for anyone, which is why--regardless of the risks--we must all get back to our "normal" routines as soon as possible.

A voice of reason in this wilderness of mirrors. Great write up and 100% spot on. Kudos to you.
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Problem is, Sweden does not know if their infection rate or, even more important, immunity is better. I only know that their strategy is fitting for low risk persons. 70+, like my parent are affected very hard and are essentially seeing real lockdowns. It is phrased as "recommendations ". Sounds not so bad but a "recommendation" in Sweden, particularly for the 70+ generation equals an "order".

But hey, they are "only" boomers. The last was sarcasm but with the edge that someone is paying the price for any strategy. In Denmark, it is mix of politics and healthcare expert recommendations which I prefer. In Sweden, the whole show is run by the healthcare experts. Who is going to pay the price is in my opinion a political question and should not be decided by the healthcare experts. That being said, Denmark has been opening up and is by next week, soon to be as open as Sweden. Let's see what happens.

We know in 1-2 years or longer who had the best strategy.

Back on topic: I am happy to work from home and I think many other as well so something good has come from this.

Unless, or course, you happen to be one of those people - currently 30% of the American workforce - who no longer have jobs.