Apple Planning 'Something Really Different' for New Mac Pro

How about "no compromises" ?

Congrats, you are one of those 1%...

How often your office do burn CDs every week? (or month)?

Is Burning CDs a common practice when you doing your work? or only an optional Data Delivery operation (and actually optional for some customers)...

So you really dont use a DVD until your work is done (so your workflow dont includes cd/dvd), not as 10yr ago when very common to swap CDs 10+ times every day, rigth now CD/DVDs still popular for data delivery (specially by mail given that most couriers consider CD/DVD as std mail not merchandise,not same for Pendrives considered merchandise).

Most Content producers dont use the workstations (and spend its premium staff time on that) for data delivery operation (burn cd, create presentations) rather another station as an iMac is dedicated to such task, operated by secondary staff, internal data workflow use to be done thru the LAN and sometimes using Pendrives or External removable haard drives.

A professional workstation should be able to do whatever the professional needs, without a rat's maze of external boxes and cables and power bricks.

Apple could easily design a bay that would hold either a tray loading optical drive, or two 2.5" drives - and make it a BTO option. (Empty, optical, or 2.5" bays)

Please not an unreliable slot loader option....
 
What an real PRO spect from next Apple Mac Pro:

A more POWERFUL MACHINE with State Of The Art peripherals:

It means:

XEON E5v2 Sandy bridge(multi-CPU) :apple: (MIC Gadget leak said no Xeon E3)

USB3/ T-bolt 1/2 :apple:

6 Internal SATA3 -> Means upto 6 SSD or upto 6 Fusion Drives Likely 2.5" format.

MicGadget also s=names a PCIe3.0 with 40 lines instead 36.... --> MEANS PROPERTARY SLOT VIDEO CARDS

MicGadget suggest no DUAL CPU... could means a mini-cube design, a multi-CPU design requires a Tower or somthing like the NeXT cube.

Ahh NO CD/DVD

Whatever, seems next monday a new MacPro will arrive.
 
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I fear that Apple will create not an easily expandable and upgradeable professional machine, but will rather follow its odd new vision of proprietary machines where you cant even upgrade the ram!

For me its been a painful realization that Apple dont give a F about their professional users anymore, those users being the basis of their revival back in the mid '90s with apple domination in desktop publishing.

The iphone generation is a blip on the radar screen. Those folks will jump ship when the next fad rolls around and although its an easier device to make and they sell alot of them, there are people like myself who have built careers around Apple hardware and OS. Faithful, longtime, professional users are being thrown under the bus!!! :mad::mad:

Shame on you Apple for forgetting your roots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"

If they do that, I'm going Hackintosh.
 

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Agreed... that's what I mean by 'professional context' --- how it's used, not just who uses it. In the professional context the results of reliability & support etc has much more significant weight than using it in a non professional context. This is usually because there's a significant financial consequence if something went wrong (due to using consumer parts). Likewise for support, etc... Large companies do not like a whole mess of different kinds of machines to support. They often approve of a few lines of machines and contractually make sure that they are supported by the vendor. (eg. You can get IBM server parts from 1999 and have them delivered to you in 48 hours). IBM makes sure that they still have them in stock.

So when Apple (or any other company) makes a line of professional grade workstations, it's designed to suit these enterprise (or 'higher') requirements. The shops that don't have such special requirements will still have to pay for the engineering of the machines (and the more expensive parts). Unlike Dell, Apple basically makes one line of MacPro, so they have to satisfy the 'higher end' customers demands (the 'lower end', for lack of better words, can still use it). ... I'm speaking in very general terms, since there's many different situations.

For Apple to make a tower with consumer parts, is almost like making another line of tower machines geared towards a prosumer market; OR changing the existing pro line is similar to hi-jacking this line and making it work for the prosumer market and not optimized for use in the professional context.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't accept that it has to be an either or situation like you imply.
There are a whole generation of Apple users (like me), who have always used Apple towers without being what many would call a 'power user', but who still need the functionality that only a tower system offers.
I use my Mac for writing music and occasional video editing too, so I like being able to have lots of internal storage, 2 optical drives, plenty of RAM and plenty of expansion ports - it is after all only the same options I've had on basically every Mac I've ever owned.
Housing all this in 1 tower is a lot less mess than it would be with an iMac - home studios are already messy enough with lots of external PSU's and audio cabling, so being able to keep HD's and optical drives internal is important.
I think it's brilliant that Apple do products that meet the demands of professionals in video editing or 3D animation etc etc, but they need to meet the demands of it others users like me too. They have successfully met the demands of both in the past, I don't see why it should be any more difficult to do that today.
A cheaper tower Mac isn't some kind of slur on 'the pro', nor is it indicative of any abandoning of the pro market, it's just a way to broaden the appeal of one of Apple's markets and maybe encourage growth in the sector by giving those aspiring pro's a starting point. At the end of the day I'm only a publishing deal away from being a 'pro' myself, so my needs DO matter.
When I was using my G4 tower back in the day, I don't recall the 'pro' Apple power user feeling marginalised or not taken seriously by Apple then.
It is simply ludicrous to suggest that they couldn't cater for my needs and the power users needs at the same time with different specced towers.
Camera manufacturers manage it. Canon and Nikon still do great full frame DSLRs that costs thousands and have full weather proofing, faster frame rates etc etc, but they also do a cheaper entry level full frame DSLRs and some pretty excellent APS-C 'prosumer' cameras too. It not some weird magical alchemy involved, it's simply applying a bit of common sense to serve the needs of more of their customer base.
I know Apple likes to streamline its product line, but Apple need to re-engage the significant amount of users (like me), who they effectively abandoned by making their Towers prohibitively expensive.
Many of us are the professionals of the future, so they need to attract us, not push us away.
In 2002 an new iMac was $1299 and a G4 tower was $1699.
in 2012 a new entry level iMac was $1299, (quad core 27" iMac was $1799), but the entry level Mac Pro was $2499!!!
So the cost of owning an Apple tower has risen massively over the last decade and Apple need to give us a cheaper way of owning one or it'll continue to be a niche product for the 'pro' or the wealthy, with moderately low sales and it needn't be either of those things IMO.
Many amateurs use MacBook Pro's every day too, but somehow this is okay, but joe public owning a Mac Pro Tower...Thats against the rules (sigh)!
Utter nonsense.
 
Apple Fusion Drive, actually are TWO (2) Drives, one SSD and one HDD the OS Caches on SSD and Moves Data to HDD when not a performance concern.

So the MAC PRO using Fusion Drives may Use the following Configurations:

1:1-> SSD + 1 HDD or utpo "3 Fusion Drives" on a system with 6 Sata port Upto 4.5TB+368GB. NO RAID UPTO 3 VOLUMES *as Fast as current iMac*

1:2-> SSD + 2 HDD (Raid 0) or upto "2 Fusion Drives" upto 6TB + 256 GB SSD (Faster for some cases) Upto TWO VOLUMES *FASTER SOLUTION*

1:5-> SSD+ 3-5 HDD (Raid 5) Upto 6TB Raid 5 backed Storage plus 256-512GB SSD, all as a SINGLE VOLUME. *SAFEST SOLUTION*

Considering 1.5TB 2.5" as Storage, using 3.5"units could doble the capacity to upto 12TB.
 
...
There are a whole generation of Apple users (like me), who have always used Apple towers without being what many would call a 'power user', but who still need the functionality that only a tower system offers. ....

understood & very good points ... "power users" is a good term to use.:)

.
 
Well, it's all about where the money is. I think there are a lot of "Pro" users out there but not enough to meet demands and possibly not worth large production runs which Apple is focusing on. Comparing to the general market the Pro users are probably less then 5%.

There's just not a whole lot of power needed anymore to run pro apps. Photoshop, Music Software and Adobe Premiere run fine on a 27inch. People are doing live concerts now with MacBook Pro's and I know people editing films and doing AfterEffects with a 27" iMac.

However, I understand about wanting more juice to handle multiple threads, video and 300 audio tracks. It sucks, yes, but people in this group are starting to become more specialized.

Yeah... there's always room for more horsepower.

The highest-specced iMac is still a single quad-core processor. It's fast... but...

The Mac Pro can be configured with two 6-core processors... for a total of 12 cores. And imagine what it will be like when it finally gets today's processors!

Sure... it's not a machine for everyone... but workstations do have their place in the market.

Some people think Apple is abandoning the "pro" market in favor of the consumer cell phone and tablet market.

Why can't they do both?

I'm sure HP sells way more Pavilion laptops than they do Z-Series workstations. Same for Dell and their Inspiron systems vs Precision workstations. The point is... those companies still believe it's worth it to keep offering workstation-class systems.

Why can't Apple?
 
Some people think Apple is abandoning the "pro" market in favor of the consumer cell phone and tablet market.

Why can't they do both?

I'm sure HP sells way more Pavilion laptops than they do Z-Series workstations. Same for Dell and their Inspiron systems vs Precision workstations. The point is... those companies still believe it's worth it to keep offering workstation-class systems.

Why can't Apple?

You only need the slightest bit of economic theory to understand why they might not want to (start with comparative advantage, then figure out why every company doesn't do literally anything that would net them a profit, and you're on your way).
 
something different, probably not something better

You only need the slightest bit of economic theory to understand why they might not want to (start with comparative advantage, then figure out why every company doesn't do literally anything that would net them a profit, and you're on your way).

You're 100% right about economic theory. Many times companies try to do too much.

However, Apple isn't just another company. It's one of the largest and most highly valued companies in the world. It had 169 billion dollars in revenue and 68 billion dollars in profit in the last 12 months.

Keeping that in mind, it would literally not even take a dozen hardware engineers to design and build a world-class OS X workstation. Maybe fewer if they outsource large portions of the design like they have done previously. I know, I've worked at companies that have done more sophisticated hardware with fewer engineers.

And the software effort required shouldn't be very large either. Most of it could piggyback off what is already required for the iMacs and Macbooks that Apple is already building.

Really, the Mac Pro should be (but unfortunately isn't) a "flagship" product. Sometimes, often times, a flagship is worth doing just for image alone. Certainly auto manufacturers think so.

The resources required to "do it right" are literally a rounding error on top of a rounding error compared to one days worth of Apple's revenue and profit. Unfortunately, Apple has usually been about the "sizzle", at the expense of the "steak". I fear that Apple will release an impractical "stupid" design that they think will boost their image, but will instead alienate most of their target market.

I want to buy the new Mac Pro, but I don't have high expectations, and I'm afraid that Apple won't even meet those.
 
"We are doing something really different..."

Doing something really different would be giving the Mac Pro the same yearly updates that every other Apple product gets - thereby giving pro users some confidence in actually buying an Apple product.

That would truly blow me away more than anything else.
 
You only need the slightest bit of economic theory to understand why they might not want to (start with comparative advantage, then figure out why every company doesn't do literally anything that would net them a profit, and you're on your way).

But Apple is already making the Mac Pro.

It's not some new area they are exploring... it's an existing product.

And like I said... other companies are still in the workstation market.

If Apple was losing money on the Mac Pro all these years... then yeah... they should kill it. But there isn't any evidence of that. The Mac Pro may not be a volume seller... but clearly there are people who rely on a super-powerful Mac for their business.

But if Apple truly wants to exit the workstation market... THEY NEED TO SAY IT

No more pussyfootin' around. Make a clean break. Don't just let the product languish for years.

It's been one year since the last minor update... and the last major revision was in 2010... WTF?

That might be the biggest problem with all of this... the unknown. Will it stay or will it go?
 
Well, there won't be a disc drive so that's a no-brainer.

Apple has my money if...

- MacPro is smaller and lighter.
- More energy efficient. My current MacPro puts off too much CO2.
- No disc drives.
- More USB ports.
- Designed for SSDs
- Did I say lighter?

Lighter? I mean yeah it would be nice but A desktop is meant to be placed in one spot not move around. Want lighter? MacBook. No disc drives? It's a work machine, I think they should still included cd/DVD maybe bluray would be nice. I'm right there with you on the more USB ports and designed for SSD. But SSD are expensive and if the new Mac Pro takes only SSD then I would not look forward into buying. USB ports, um I know they sell hubs. I think what should be put on the new Mac Pro is more pci slot, thunderbolt, USB 3 :p that's all I want. A higher power supply would be nice :)
I totally agree on the size though. It does take to much space
 
(Although the imac screens are so nice, it's hard to find another second monitor that doesn't look dumb or like crap sitting next to it.)
As a pro, maybe you should go to a real computer shop to check out how good monitors look. Start by asking 10-bit colors. And after getting those, tell your clients that you are more interested about what's in the picture than how nice is the monitor...

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Are they likely to lose customers because there is an optical drive vs not buying because there is none?
Somehow MBP with odd is still one of Apple's best selling products.

Could someone explain why many mac users are so sensitive about having old tech in their computer. Nobody's complaining of having tb which they don't use, but having odd in desktop is horroble! Why people are worried about wasing space on desktop tower? Do they have better use for that space, like storing a sandwitch? Pro machines shouldn't be extension of (bad) ego, they should be tools.

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Apple should only include products that are actually used.[..]Why should apple include a part in the box that is only used 1% of the time, when everything else is used 100% of the time?
It would be stupid for Apple to include that.
You mean Apple should ditch TB right now, because so few people use it?
 
Just totally deconstruct the concept of a computer, so the CPU, GPU, and HDD are all separate, swappable appliances.

Need more GPU power? Just get a new GPU box.
Need more HDDs? Get a new Thunderbolt enclosure.

All nicely stackable like AV equipment.
Haven't all these been swappable in a classic tower computer?
All this change would mean, is that those parts would be way more expensive (lots of enclosures and cables), way more slower (tb as interconnect), would waste a lot more space (boxes, boxes, lots of boxes) and produce much more noise to remove the heat from small boxes.

Need more GPU power? Just get a new GPU pcie-card.
Need more HDDs? Get a new internal hdd and slam it in.
 
What about Thunderbolt 2 ( "Falcon Ridge" ) see link below? :confused:

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/06/04/intel-shares-additional-details-on-20gbps-thunderbolt-2/

Would there still be a bottleneck for PCI-E 3 GPUs like the Nvidia Titan?

Yes. However, the real world performance would still be good but not as good as if the card was sitting in a dedicated PCIe 3 x16 slot. A PCIe 3 x16 slot can have up to about 32 GB/s of bandwidth (certainly not always used) and the Thunderbolt 2 caps out at 20 Gb/s - much lower. Again, those are upper limits and PCIe 3 cards do not max out bandwidth. So there will still be modest performance hits with Thunderbolt 2 but probably not big enough in real world use to make too much of a difference.
 
... they said the very same thing about Final Cut Pro X ... that had us pros leaving the app in droves.

I hope 'really different' in this case doesn't mean that ... we don't need 'easy to use' ... as a pro, we need *flexibility* . ijs

There are two main types of pro user. The small independent guy who is both his own techy, software and creative expert all in one. Yes we need flexibility. Then the larger case is a room full of workers using equipment owned and set up by the company. Churning out video or publishing day in day out on the same equipment and software with little wish to ever change what they have been taught to do. The latter category probably doesn't need flexibility so much.
 
Maybe they can have on board memory to save space, and have 4 open slots to add. They need to do something to slim it down, but that's hard to do with 8 ram slots.

Onboard memory is about the worst idea ever for a pro machine with a significant price tag. I can't even believe they did it with the retina machines, considering the history of failed logic boards due to onboard memory failure. What is going to be the response to your $3000 computer dying after 3 years, buy a new one?

The modular design is so not Apple it's almost comical. In order to make it thinner they removed the case? I envision an mSATA or their newer proprietary bus blade-type SSD borrowed from the MBP, two options for 2.5" SATA devices, 2-4 TB ports, 4+ USB3 ports, and 2 wide spaced PCIe16x slots, two CPUs and 8+ RAM slots. No optical, no spinning drives, smaller power supply, and - sadly - no firewire.

I no longer get excited when someone from Apple says "We're doing something completely different" because it doesn't mean close to the same thing it meant when SJ said it. Honestly, I just hear "We've crippled something even more!"
 
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