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Apple Planning Thicker Bezel-Free 10.5" iPad Pro With 9.7" Footprint and No Home Button [Updated]
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Interesting. I've never been able to do that with the 9.7" iPad. A mini, sure, but it was too uncomfortable to hold the bigger one like that. And forget about doing that with the 12.9.
Original iPad, iPad 2, iPad 3, iPad Air, 12.9-inch iPad Pro.
Often I use my iPad on my lap, or propped up using the SmartCover. I would never watch a movie while holding it. For email, I need both my hands to type, and it was designed without a way to hold it with my feet. The bezels never bothered me, but I won't miss them, either.
By lunacy, I mean people are using "pro" in sentences that sound like they came straight from Nigel Tufnel. "How much more pro could this be? None. None more pro." Or the strange idea that you can create a device universally perfect for every professional regardless of profession.
All of this smacks of looking for something to complain about. Even the way you've opened this conversation-- "I'm honestly curious what Apple means by Pro"-- now looks like bait to find someone to argue with. So you have a very high bar for what Pro means. Ok. You think Apple is targeting a few specific types of pros and you don't think they should call a product pro unless it universally addresses the needs of jugglers and brain surgeons. Ok.
So, you can accuse me of whining, but in reality I took your "honest" question at face value and gave you a straight answer that you used as a springboard for a rant about "ideology". So if you want to get down to what's whining and what isn't I think "my pro thing isn't pro enough" is pretty much the definition of a "feeble, petulant complaint."
The "consumer orientation" of iPad is only obvious to you. I've seen a growing number of executives give up their laptops and rely solely on iPad, for example. I've seen more tradespeople move to iPad. Architects. Pilots. Creatives. Maybe those aren't professionals in your mind, or maybe they're not pro enough, or universal pros, or whatever it is that gives you a reason to pick this windmill to joust, but they are professionals and they use iPads. That's why Apple uses the word "Pro".
And I'll again make the point: Pro's don't spend a lot of time complaining about what their tools are named. We think it's a silly argument to have...
It is you who have taken my legitimate question and chose to take it as a springboard to a rant. Ironically, you took everything I said as a springboard for you to rant about anyone that points out anything they don't like about Apple.
I really wanted to know what features exactly warranted Apple calling the iPad Pro as a springboard for analysis and discussion.
There are two types of people: those who consider the iPad "Pro" name to be inacurate, and those who don't care. Clearly, you fall in the latter category.
I strive to understand Apple's decisions. Clearly the name matters, because Apple chose it as a differentiator for lesser iPads. The deal here is that to me Apple chose a poor name. iPad Plus would have both been more consistent with their own current iOS-device-naming scheme and a less controversial one. It is clear I am not the only one who feels this way. You want to dismiss everyone who does as "petulant and feeble".
So, if you find this line of discussion silly to have then stop replying to my posts.
But the constant whining about whiners is just tiresome.
Did someone just mention "thicker" ? In a world where products are getting "thinner" from Apple, this just stands out in plain sight..
As usual for the thicker bezel, till we get technology ok, we'll start with a thick bezel because technology is not there yet to fit in this thin design, or we'll use the reason so we can add other stuff., then work back in next few years..
Starting with the iPad Pro.... next the iPhone, and further slowly roll it out to the smaller iPad's ... till the cycle is "complete"
Just like watching a baby being born ain't it
As usual for the thicker bezel, till we get technology ok, we'll start with a thick bezel because technology is not there yet to fit in this thin design, or we'll use the reason so we can add other stuff., then work back in next few years..
Starting with the iPad Pro.... next the iPhone, and further slowly roll it out to the smaller iPad's ... till the cycle is "complete"
Just like watching a baby being born ain't it
Anyone? Anything? Name three people and one thing other than the "pro" modifier that people don't like about Apple that I ranted about in this conversation.
You didn't ask what features, you asked simply what. I answered the "target market" amid more detail. Your response veered from first agreeing that the iPad is targeted at professionals (creatives) to a dozen paragraphs about Apple not making displays anymore, SSD mounts, the Mac Mini being stagnant, and something about Xserve. That, for comparison, is a rant. It was a rant that only brushed by the topic of the iPad (and the question of bezels, not at all). You're welcome to it, of course, and I ignored most of it. I focused on the the small part that was relevant to the use of the name "Pro" on iPads:
which I find an impossible (or maybe just impossibly vague) goal. If you're striving to understand Apple's decisions, it's probably relevant to examine if the standard you're measuring against is unrealistic.
I never dismissed anyone as petulant or feeble. I described a particular complaint as such, being the definition of "whining"-- which you first chose to level as an accusation for whatever reason.
I have to say, this is consistent across your arguments-- you don't seem to understand how many different types of people there are. This is a particularly important thing to grasp when trying to understand what it means to be professional.
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The question is though whether you should rename a product that hasn't been changed.
It's too exhausting to continue going around in circles with the personal arguments, so I'll sum up my sentiments this way:
Apple calling the iPad, or any of its current devices "Pro" is disingenuous. This is why I think so:
Just because an item can be used in a professional setting does not mean it is a "Pro" device.
We can argue this to no end, but I posit that many agree with me on this, and that this is the reason for the outbursts regarding the "Pro" term when it relates to Apple.
Generally speaking, "Pro" computing devices have had several attributes professionals in many fields have grown accustomed to. These features are internal serviceability, expandability, upgradability, and customizability on hardware and/or software sides to varying degrees. Apple used to provide such features in their "Pro" labeled devices on the hardware side. Slowly but surely, Apple began eliminating them. On the software side, OS X and now macOS retain their flexibility and customization for the most part. But the iPad never fit this mold.
Yes, the original iPad was used by professionals in the airline, industry, the military (I speak from personal experience there), etc. But the iPad was (arguably) primarily a consumption device. It's greatness and flexibility allowed for its use in some pro situations, but it does not mean it was designed as a professional device per the expected "pro" feature set.
Then Apple modified the iPad to add a very specific feature set aimed at creatives and slapped the "Pro" name in front of it. This did not change whether the regular iPad was "pro" in the context you've been using it; in that context the regular iPad is as much a "pro" device as the iPad Pro. I'm merely saying that when Apple slapped "Pro" in front of the iPad, professionals other than creatives expected more of the standard (which is what I meant with "universal") "pro" features.
The Mac Pro is an even better example. Suddenly, the amount of "Pros" that could actually use the device (of the same name) the way they used to was significantly reduced. Apple turned a computer aimed at any "professional" into a machine that was effectively a throwaway, and very sharply aimed at creative professionals. The new Mac Pro does not replace the old one in most environments outside the creative ones.
So it goes with the MBP. Horsepower is not enough. Pros (in the context I'm using) for example don't care about emojis, something Apple spent too much time on in their keynote. They care whether or not they can connect their machine to existing infrastructure, whether it can be expanded or repaired in the field with minimum down-time, etc. But Apple turned the once "universally" pro MBP (the 2012 cMBPs were really the best example of this) into a powerful iPad (when referring to its attributes).
So I'm not attacking Apple's machines per se. They are still very good for what they are. But what I'm trying to say is that they are far too different from what a Pro (other than creatives or those who can use a consumer device in a pro setting) expects from devices with such a designation. They're too different from what even Apple categorized as Pro in the past, that's all.
You asked why I don't stop replying if I think your arguments are silly-- this is why. When the heat burns away, you usually have a well reasoned argument behind it all. FWIW, I've got a much better understanding of your complaint now and, while I don't really agree that something needs to be user serviceable to be "pro", I see your point.
I'm curious what use case you have in mind when you think of a professional that needs to be able to take their equipment apart and replace individual bits. It's been a long time since I've seen a true professional operate that way. I've done it in my personal life, and I know a lot of hobbyists and gamers do it for fun and to try and stay on top of what used to be a very fast moving technology curve, but most professionals I know configure, buy, use and then replace their whole rig. It's too much time lost to fiddling and too many incremental costs to update things regularly, and tech just doesn't seem to change as fast. Intel has basically flatlined...
My experience has been that the "appliance" model has become much more prevalent among professional users. Many work for companies with dedicated IT teams that have tried to improve operating efficiency by standardizing the equipment they support. While you might be able to broadly configure a Dell, then open it up and swap modules, many IT departments forbid it. When something goes wrong with a laptop, the user delivers it to IT and walks away with a loaner.
In truth, I don't think most professionals (barring some technical professionals) know enough about what's inside their equipment to be able to service it themselves anyway which is why there's been a move towards various external expansion busses-- USB, Firewire, Thunderbolt, eSATA, etc. These are now fast enough that internal busses are more trouble than they're worth for most folks. Thunderbolt, in particular, is PCIe over a wire and literally pulls the internal bus outside. I have an external SSD RAID over TB2 that's faster than my internal SSD on a Mac Pro.
So I think from Apple's perspective, if the busses give you all the bandwidth you need for configurability, most people bring their systems in for upgrades and repair, and very few people even understand the concept of a grounding strap, then sealing the box is the way to go even for their high performance machines.
With mobile devices the tradeoff's of modularity are just too great. Google tried it with their Project Ara and really tried to do it right-- and it just never gained traction. It adds too much bulk and hurts reliability. So in the mobile space, Pro will mostly mean a bit more performance and a few higher end features.
The pencil isn't just for creatives, by the way-- the ability to work through a set of equations by hand on the iPad and keep it in digital form is huge for me. There still isn't a keyboard interface around that handles math manipulations like a pencil and paper.
[as an aside to your main point, I think Apple has been biased towards creatives pretty much since the release of the original Mac, so that's certainly nothing new. To me the Mac became a more "universally" pro device when it switched to a Unix based OS that could also run Microsoft Word]
I believe this to be true as well. I think my problem is that I came into the Apple fold at a time where they were making their machines more "universal", culminating in the sweet spot (for me) that is the last 17" MBP. It has it all: Ethernet, USB, TB, Expresscard, FW800, a matte screen (if you chose it), a really nice 1080P screen, easy access to internals via phillips (not pentalobe) screws, and easy and well-thought-out battery, Drive and RAM replacement, and it's still nice and thin and light for what it is. I still use all those connections, both at home and in the field, in both personal and professional situations.
There simply has been nothing in the market to replace it for 6 years, until now: The Razer Blade Pro. Too bad it runs Windows, but I can live with that. I still have about 3 years left of life in my 2011/2012 Macs, given I still can upgrade everything myself, even on my 27" iMac.
I saw the writing on the wall when the iPad came out. I immediately knew this was the future, but saw that it was too restrictive and there was just too much I couldn't do with it to replace my Macs. Then Apple put out the MBAir, and I began to see the signs of trouble. Apple then kills the Xserve, aggravating my worry. Yep, the next MBPs (Retina) started to seal up (soldered RAM, pentalobe screws) like the MBAir, and the 17" MBP was dead. I knew the cMBPs were DOA at that point. Apple then effectively killed the MacPro, seals up the iMac even more (glued screen vs magnets). My worst fears were coming true. Then finally, the MacBook. I called it when I saw it: this is what all MacBooks will be like, even the Pro. And I was right.
If Apple had just kept updating the old machines with today's tech and sold them alongside their newer, thinner, more "sealed" counterparts, a lot of people like me would have been happy. People that are now leaving or left the Mac (when the can Mac Pro came out) would have stayed, and Apple's installed base would have grown exponentially. It was the perfect opportunity for Apple to expand their lines. "Real" Pro or "Enterprise" or whatever products, alongside their current ultrabook "i" or "Plus" consumer-centric lines would have worked. That way, we can choose the right tool for the job.
I believe that Apple's "consumer" focus will cause the downward sales slump will continue, but we'll see.
My dreams of using Apple indefinitely died years ago, but I waited and hoped all this time.
But alas, it looks like Windows is the future for me, whether I like it or not.
Thankfully, Microsoft has already figured out how to give me my 2 favorite macOS features: multiple desktops and smooth, accurate multi-touch trackpads. Took them long enough!
And I'd already went Android years ago, so iOS is not missed in the slightest.
Thus, I'm thinking this'll hurt a lot less in 3-4 years, or when my Macs finally give up the ghost.
Since you obviously have the time to wait, maybe you could also find the time to pause and think. Why would you reject a postulate just based on the frequency of its occurence. After all, an "untypical" statement can be original only once, but a true statement has to be true all the time, no matter how often you repeat. Just because the postulate to make the iPad have the capabilities of a portable computer has been brought up again and again doesn't mean it is not a valid reuqest, it just means that it is being ignored.
That explains a lot of the difference in our outlook right there-- I always thought the 17" was sort of an odd duck...
I'm a bit of a Rush fan, as my username may suggest, and if you know anything about the band they tend to change styles pretty significantly every 3 or 4 albums. Every Rush fan thinks their music at the time they first heard them is the best they've ever done, all the music before then is pretty good because it led up to what they love, and all the music after then is treasonous and an insult to their loyal fans. They get freaking rabid about it. Back in the 90's they released a track that had a brief rap over the bridge and people went apoplectic-- ready to knife you if you didn't swear on your grandmothers grave that it was scat singing, not rap.
I get the feeling most Apple customers are kind of the same. It's a quirky company, it's a minority in the market, it's always kind of dabbled in geek chic. Most people came to it from a bad relationship with Microsoft, or Motorola or whoever and thought they found a company that really understood them. As time goes on things evolve and not everyone is going to agree with the direction. Part of the allure of Apple is that they have a very simple product matrix, but part of the problem is that means we all have to kind of live by their idea of what's best.
Airline seats are the same way and it makes me crazy because I'm apparently not dimensioned like an average human, but Apple is still making good decisions for my needs.
I bought in when Jobs first came back and introduced the bubble iMac. When OS X was introduced, built on Unix, I moved my work life to Mac and haven't looked back. iTunes has become a bit of a clusterf*ck, and I would have liked BluRay support but for the most part, over time, I feel their products are becoming better optimized for my needs-- certainly my professional needs, and more and more of my colleagues have moved to Mac as well. But, that's my one use case and I typically want hardware I can buy once and run into the ground then replace. It certainly fits my company's expenditure model better than swapping pieces to keep old hardware alive. The peripherals I need don't usually require an internal bus.
We'll see what happens next. Pretty much all of Apple's hardware lines have hit plateaus. I think the 2017 iPhone is probably going to be the iPhone's plateau. I'm good with that as long as they don't start making changes for the sake of making changes. Don't go the Microsoft Word route and just make a decent thing different hoping to sell more. Some people probably think that's what Apple's doing now, but I'm still seeing advancement toward a goal. (On the hardware side, I think that goal is pretty much the compute appliance you dread). I'm glad OS updates went free and stopped focusing on feature releases so much. I'm ok with 2 year product cycles when there's nothing really new to introduce, and I'm ok with maintaining their price points because I (personally) am still ok with what's shipping.
As everything levels out though, there's going to be a lot of pressure to grow and growing is really hard when you're already one of the most valuable companies on the planet. I hope they bide their time and do it right rather than panic and release Google Glass and a dozen other products that don't make it a year.
Oh, and if they stop encouraging and start forcing me to the cloud, I'll probably jump too.
Anyway, a bit of a drift from the topic, but this thread's pretty dead now anyway.
Form does follow function in the current iPhone design. It all depends on what your desired functions are.
If the desired function is to have a cool dual-camera system on the phone with an eight hour battery life and super light weight, then the bump is the form that follows naturally. If the desired functionality was 12-16 hour battery life without the desire for super light weight operation, then a thicker phone with no bump would be the form that would follow naturally. If the desired function was 48 hour battery life, then a 2 inch thick phone would be the form that would follow naturally.
The only thing that is happening right now is that you and Apple apparently have differing notions on what the desired "function" of the current iPhone should be.
I see what you're saying, but do you really think that adding the < 1mm thickness required for a flat phone back to accommodate the dual camera system, with or without a matching increase in battery size, would really add that much weight to the phone? I contend that a phone such as I describe would also be "super light" (although marginally heavier than the current phone).
A) the bump on my iPhone 7 plus seems like it's more than 1mm. Hard to say without the right tool.
B) whatever the added thickness & weight would be, it's apparently enough to keep it from achieving Apple's desired function.
That explains a lot of the difference in our outlook right there-- I always thought the 17" was sort of an odd duck...
I'm a bit of a Rush fan, as my username may suggest, and if you know anything about the band they tend to change styles pretty significantly every 3 or 4 albums. Every Rush fan thinks their music at the time they first heard them is the best they've ever done, all the music before then is pretty good because it led up to what they love, and all the music after then is treasonous and an insult to their loyal fans. They get freaking rabid about it. Back in the 90's they released a track that had a brief rap over the bridge and people went apoplectic-- ready to knife you if you didn't swear on your grandmothers grave that it was scat singing, not rap.
I get the feeling most Apple customers are kind of the same. It's a quirky company, it's a minority in the market, it's always kind of dabbled in geek chic. Most people came to it from a bad relationship with Microsoft, or Motorola or whoever and thought they found a company that really understood them. As time goes on things evolve and not everyone is going to agree with the direction. Part of the allure of Apple is that they have a very simple product matrix, but part of the problem is that means we all have to kind of live by their idea of what's best.
Airline seats are the same way and it makes me crazy because I'm apparently not dimensioned like an average human, but Apple is still making good decisions for my needs.
I bought in when Jobs first came back and introduced the bubble iMac. When OS X was introduced, built on Unix, I moved my work life to Mac and haven't looked back. iTunes has become a bit of a clusterf*ck, and I would have liked BluRay support but for the most part, over time, I feel their products are becoming better optimized for my needs-- certainly my professional needs, and more and more of my colleagues have moved to Mac as well. But, that's my one use case and I typically want hardware I can buy once and run into the ground then replace. It certainly fits my company's expenditure model better than swapping pieces to keep old hardware alive. The peripherals I need don't usually require an internal bus.
We'll see what happens next. Pretty much all of Apple's hardware lines have hit plateaus. I think the 2017 iPhone is probably going to be the iPhone's plateau. I'm good with that as long as they don't start making changes for the sake of making changes. Don't go the Microsoft Word route and just make a decent thing different hoping to sell more. Some people probably think that's what Apple's doing now, but I'm still seeing advancement toward a goal. (On the hardware side, I think that goal is pretty much the compute appliance you dread). I'm glad OS updates went free and stopped focusing on feature releases so much. I'm ok with 2 year product cycles when there's nothing really new to introduce, and I'm ok with maintaining their price points because I (personally) am still ok with what's shipping.
As everything levels out though, there's going to be a lot of pressure to grow and growing is really hard when you're already one of the most valuable companies on the planet. I hope they bide their time and do it right rather than panic and release Google Glass and a dozen other products that don't make it a year.
Oh, and if they stop encouraging and start forcing me to the cloud, I'll probably jump too.
Anyway, a bit of a drift from the topic, but this thread's pretty dead now anyway.
Great analogy regarding Rush (I'm also a fan). I certainly relate to the feeling of disappointment when bands I love radically change their sound/style to the point where I don't like their music anymore (black-album-and-beyond Metallica is a major example for me, although they're back with Death Magnetic). But to me Apple's transformation is like switching from Headbanger's Ball to Americal Idol. No. Just. HELL, NO.
Sadly, Apple and I are headed for the same kind of divorce over irreconcilable differences. After years of marital bliss, I got old, and she turned into a cougar and started chasing younger meat. Thankfully, there's plenty out there interested in silver-foxes.
It seems to me that Apple is indeed going through a weird stage in their lifecycle.
As others have observed, I believe Apple is transforming into a phone company, where the iPhone is the center of their universe. Every other device in Apple's catalog is being slowly transformed into the iPhone, and/or exist for the purpose of supporting it.
Thus it seems Apple is (sadly) putting all their eggs into the iPhone basket, and I feel this is both unnecessary and dangerous, (although highly profitable at the moment) given the talent they still have in the company. Since I don't use iPhone anymore, I feel like an oddball. I can actually be happy running Mountain Lion on my machines because I don't really need most of the Mac's iOS-centric features that came after (although I'm on El Cap on my 3 machines as they are synced-clones).
Maybe they understand the long game better than all of us, and once they milk the iPhone dry and the bubble bursts they'll revert back to being "Apple Computer" and provide products we (long-time fans) expect them to. We'll come back. In a heartbeat. Love is patient, after all.