Sharkey311
Suspended
Yes. From this report, it sounds like they're only doing this bezel free thing for the 10 inch one. If that is the case I will be very disappointed.
Apple Planning Thicker Bezel-Free 10.5" iPad Pro With 9.7" Footprint and No Home Button [Updated]
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Cavepainter
macrumors regular
Yes, its true, some people on Macrumors and elsewhere feel compelled to criticize one of the richest companies in the world when that company does something that many of us long-time customers believe is not in our best interest. Raising the price $500 on a product that is already profitable is greedy (Mac Book Pro). Removing functionality and forcing people to purchase things separately just to restore the functionality of the previous model is greedy (Superdrives, SD card readers, dongles, etc). Refusing to participate in widespread sales is greedy (last year's Black Friday). Staunchly refusing to drop prices on older computer designs is greedy (Mac Pro). Making it harder or impossible for customers to upgrade their own machines is greedy (ram, hard drives, etc). Removing handy capabilities that virtually nobody wanted removed just to save a few bucks is greedy (Magsafe). Changing interfaces simply to build in customers captive to the proprietary ecosystem is greedy (headphone jack, Lightning, Firewire, etc). Upselling is greedy (Ram, SSD upgrades, etc) and anybody that knows anything about business knows that Apple does THAT better than ANYONE.
Remember:
This is a comment forum.
People will comment.
Some people commenting will actually disagree with you.
Life goes on.
Its ok.
xsnightclub
Suspended
Ive's been MIA at Apple ever since they shelved the stupid AppleCar.
69Mustang
macrumors 604
You're right, the iPad has been primarily a consumer product. It's still is primarily a consumer product. Apple deeply integrating stylus input support didn't suddenly make it a professional device. Long before the Apple Pencil, creatives were using the iPad and styluses for professional graphics and design. The App Store featured multiple apps for that express purpose. Apple, right out of their playbook, simply took what was already there and made it more accessible and more functional. A stylus doesn't make it "Pro". If it did, the iPad was "Pro" long before Apple designated it as such.
"Pro" is simply a marketing term. It's that way for Apple, and it's that way for most tech companies. So it's not a knock against anyone. It just is. "Pro" simply connotes better than, more than, superiority... not professional.
Why would someone think "Pro" means it can replace a macbook? "Because I said it can." - Tim Cook
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Agree. This makes sense. Being able to use the apple pencil or the smart keyboard on the pro models isn't enough to justify a "pro" label in my opinion. The addition of a special "pro IOS" for the pro models would be worthy of a pro moniker. Something that better blurred the lines between a laptop & a tablet perhaps. I guess apple knows what they're doing. I'm just alittle confused by the thinking here. Maybe it'll make better sense when the next upgrade comes. Although with the rumor of an additional 10.5" ipad between the 9.7" & 12.9" versions, I'm not so sure! I just see a lot of confusion & lack of focus in the current line ups for the tablet & laptops being offered by Apple. Get rid of the MacBook Air already. And simplify the iPad line. Don't add more. Simplify & streamline! More isn't always better. But hey. I'm just Joe consumer. Just my 2 cents.
Analog Kid
macrumors G3
Apple tries pretty hard to limit fragmentation of their developer facing technologies. Adding another OS just makes things complicated for developers and consumers. I guarantee that if they introduced another OS, people here would complain that the App Store offerings were misleading.
cmaier
Suspended
I'm waiting for all the people who always post "no one is asking for ___ to be thinner! give us more battery instead!" to bitch when the iPad gets thicker.
melendezest
Suspended
Well, I cannot speak for everybody, but I am quite dissatisfied with Apple products since around 2012 (when they began to discontinue the cMBPs including the 17").
That said, I think that the assertion that "I don't like the new iWhatever because it doesn't function like Windows or Android." is invalid is, well, invalid. Let's analyze that a bit:
I believe that both (current) Windows and certainly Android are a direct response to iOS. They are what (some) people wanted (and still do to some extent) iOS to be. It even was a key component of the early "Droid does" ad campaigns, where the adage that Android did what "idon't" was pervasive. Microsoft is contantly comparing its devices to Apple's.
I feel that Apple (and subsequently) iOS is stuck in that same past. And that it will be detrimental in the long term for Apple to continue to fail to evolve and give customers what they want. The whole "...a faster horse" concept is obsolete.
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I disagree with this ideology.
I believe that Apple is targeting a very specific set of profesionals with their current "pro" devices.
For example, the Mac Pro went from a computer that was a universal tool for all pros to something specifically targeted to Video pros. Every other pro that valued the other Mac "Pro" features like hard-drive/SSD swapability, graphics card upgradeability, flexible connection options, etc, was left out in the cold.
So it has nothing to do with the "Pro" name, although I can understand why some found it insulting, especially when a significant financial investment in infrastructure is involved (and every Apple product is a significant financial investment).
The iPad is another device that found a place in many professional situations where its limited capabilities where not a factor. But once Apple came out with the "Pro" version, Apple again targeted the very specific set of creative professionals, in particular those to whom a(n admittedly outstanding) drawing tool set was useful.
The anger and confusion stems from disappointment: people want Apple products that are universally Pro, not just in the limited, loose way that Apple is applying the term. They see what could have been. I used to argue with those who stated that the iPad was a toy. Now I get it.
Apple is well on the trajectory of leaving the Pro market entirely.
The Mac(book Pro) has been turned into an appliance.
They left the server market (the excellent XServe).
They left the display market.
They neutered and then all-but-abandoned the Mac Pro.
They've removed all field-repairability from all their devices.
The Mac Mini is yet another ignored, soon-to-be-appliance
Apple is building consumer products that can be shoehorned into professional situations, not the other way around (like they used to). Google and Microsoft are taking the opposite approach: making professional products you can play with. Only in their approach can the solution fit everywhere.
This is not whining, or trolling, or whatever. It's an analysis based on my observations of Apple products and their direction. It's easy to see their trajectory.
Thus for my part, I have stopped depending on (future) Apple products for my needs. I can trust on them to do one thing:
To remove features I've grown accustomed to and invested in, for the purpose of thinness/aesthetics.
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Re: Comment forum/disagreement. I am aware. Newsflash: Some people will disagree with you, too. Life goes on.
Re: Price. How long does a company have to keep listing new models at the same price as the old models? Apple has never pursued the economy model price point.
Re: 'Removing functionality.' I bet it wouldn't take a lot of searching to find historical evidence of people getting worked up when Apple forced people to use 3.5" floppy disks instead of 5.25" disks, and then again when they quit including the 3.5" drives. Superdrives take up a lot of space, and honestly, most people don't use them very much any more. People got worked up for a while when OSX (and all other software) quit shipping on physical media, too, but most people don't buy software in boxes any more. When they do, they find a card with a key code in the box, not a disk. It all comes over the internet now. I'll kind of miss the SD reader, but I can stick one in my camera case and not lose too much sleep. As for dongles in general, if I'm going to spend a lot on a new MBP, I'd rather have it loaded with 'forward compatible' ports and use dongles for backward compatibility rather than the other way around. This way, over time, you'll need fewer dongles, not more. Also, in a couple of years when you get some future external device that ports data at Thunderbolt 3's 40Gbps, you won't be throttling it through a dongle that adapts it back to your 5Gbs USB3 or (480Mbps USB2) legacy port.
Re: Black Friday. Are you kidding me?
Re: Hardware upgrades/upselling. Facilitating hardware upgrades has never been an Apple priority. The less swapping out of hardware, the fewer variables they have to anticipate in the OS. The fewer variables, the fewer crashes and compatibility issues. That has always been an Apple priority. Buy the best options you think you might need on the front end, and you won't have to keep spending money later swapping out parts. (This is one of those 'it doesn't function like Windows or Android' complaints. Endless hardware options and ongoing hardware upgrades equals 'freedom,' but at a cost of endless crashes and compatibility issues.)
My point is that all these things are consistent with Apple's longstanding SOP, and come straight from the mind of Steve Jobs. Feel free to disagree with that. Life goes on.
Gasu E.
macrumors 603
I did, because I always start from the assumption that the person who posts something that sounds stupid isn't actually stupid; and then let them disprove me by exhibiting subsequent stupidity.
But typically, in posting, it's best to mark sarcasm with an appropriate emoticon or emoji.
These comparisons are as old as Windows 3.1. Older, really. Once Windows copped the WSYWIG UI (in direct response to Apple), people would complain about Apple being, by comparison, 1) too expensive, and 2) ridiculous because of the closed system that didn't allow other manufacturers to (legally) install MacOS on their hardware, and 3) restrictive, because you couldn't just swap out random parts into your Mac. People were apoplectic a decade ago when Steve Jobs introduced an iPhone with no physical keyboard, no stylus, no user-serviceable battery, and no data expansion slots. Seriously. This didn't start in 2012.
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sidewinder3000
macrumors 65816
Wow, does nobody understand physics? Isn't the whole point of this rumored new device to give people the option for a 9.7 inch footprint with more than an inch of extra real estate? How exactly would you propose that without making it a tiny bit thicker? Magic?
And if you are concerned about how it feels in your hand, you are way offbase looking to the 12.9 inch Pro for a solution. I own one and love it, but it is certainly a beast and not as easy or fun to use one-handed (or in non-desktop situations) as the 9.7 inch. Even if they make it a slight bit thinner, the additional length/width alone create extra leverage that make it more unwieldy than devices with smaller footprints. It's just math, man.
No offense, but I am amazed at the amount of whining and complaining that Apple users partake in over products that haven't even been announced or shipped, with no acknowledgement of how the necessities of space & time impact product design.
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Why is that your opinion? Why do you not want there to be a budget option for people who can't afford the latest, greatest bezel-free technology?
Analog Kid
macrumors G3
I think phrasings like this get to the heart of the lunacy. Using the term like this doesn't even make sense.
sidewinder3000
macrumors 65816
"iPad Pro" is simply a way of differentiating Apple tablets that have 1) more advanced screen technology that accepts input from an Apple Pencil and 2) have the ability to physically connect an optional keyboard (via tiny side ports) from cheaper, simpler iPad models that don't. It allows people who want to use their iPads for more professional applications to pay extra for the technology they want, while still allowing people who simply use their iPads for watching movies and browsing the web to have a cheaper option.
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AZ63
macrumors 6502
Yes, sarcastic. Apple's solution in search of a problem.
Analog Kid
macrumors G3
Wanting a company to give you something you value for less than you value it just because they're successful is greedy. Wanting a company to disregard their other customers to satisfy your personal requirements is greedy. Thinking you are entitled to a discount because you just celebrated the natives saving the immigrants from starvation is
sidewinder3000
macrumors 65816
Not sure what your issue is. They've disregarded thinness before when coming out with new technology & features, with the first iPad Retina and the new Apple Watch series 2 being two of several such examples.I'm glad Apple has decided to not worry about its thickness. Because the thinness of our products is the LEAST thing we care about.
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Wow, you and all the other geniuses on this discussion board really seem to know what's best for Apple. Why make a single product bezel-free if you're not able to make all your products bezel-free, all at once? It probably has nothing to do with the size of individual components relative to each distinct iPad footprint, or how the design challenges for an iPad Mini are completely different from the design challenges for a 12.9 inch iPad Pro. No. Couldn't be that.
I think all you guys who seem to "know better" should band together and create a new company that will blow the morons at Apple away for good. I'm getting really tired of those jerks.
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Why spread false information
Why does everyone care so much about the tiny bump? Especially the way they smoothed it over on the iPhone 7. Certainly I'd like a bit more battery life, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'd need to make the iPhone as thick as the camera module to achieve it.
Maybe they should come out with a fat iPhone that has a crappier camera to silence all this whining. As long as they continue to make one with a bump for people who value photography over simplistic symmetry, that'd be fine.
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You're right, it is funny how people misunderstand poorly written sentences.
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Not all "significant" differences can be measured relatively. Sometimes an absolute measurement is the best metric.
In this case, we are talking about such a small scale (7.5mm) that "23%" isn't really that big of a deal when it comes to interaction with 5-6', 100-200 lb. human beings. If the device were two inches thick, then a 23% increase would actually have a deleterious impact on usability.
Certainly, a 1.4mm increase in thickness isn't "nothing", but it's also nothing for so many people to carp about. The small absolute increase in thickness, despite it's relative 23% change, will easily be offset by the benefit of both the absolute and relative increase in screen real estate.
ayokkay
Suspended
every iPad I have had has had a horrible home button. I said I will never buy one until they remove it.
Gonna get this one too.
No offence, but I am amazed at the amount of condescending tone coming from your comments.
In all seriousness, the 12.9 intrigues me with the sheer screen size, and I feel like I'd be using it primarily as a 'desktop' iPad, if you will. But the current mini4, Air 2 and 9.7" Pro just feel incredible to hold one-handed while walking or on the go. I spent 1.5 years using the mini 2 and original Air that were 7.5mm, and the difference was significant when you use these devices very often or for long periods of time.
I can appreciate when a product does get thicker, like the iPad 3rd gen or the Series 2 Watch (of which I have both). I was happy to upgrade as I was getting significant features for that extra weight/thickness. But it still hurts for certain types of products, especially mobile or wearable ones to increase in weight/size. But regardless of thickness, even if it increases, I'm curious to see what they're up to. The current iPad design is essentially 4 years old, and I'm sure they've been working on something interesting for the next design. Maybe we'll see something that will blow us away with how the screen is designed and we really won't care about thickness.
Cavepainter
macrumors regular
You make a compelling argument about forward compatibility- of course that's a great idea. I do think however that the Mac Book Pro would have been more warmly received without the massive price hike and more immediate compatibility out of the box. A big bump in price and incompatibility out of the box is way too much to ask for many. Its unfortunate that many of Apple's connectors of choice never really catch on fast enough and are eventually surpassed before they really become mainstream (and more affordable or readily available).
Nobody disagrees that Apple has always done things like this. That's why they have become the richest company in the world. I'm gonna be greedy and say I'd rather keep more money for my family.
Apple could easily continue to make ram and hard drives replaceable, though. They've always done it that way in the past. Most of their computers over the years have always had easily upgradeable hard drives and ram at least. I remember popping open and easily upping the ram on my first G4- and on my Power Mac G5, and adding memory and new batteries on our laptops..... Apple used to brag about that in advertising. I got a couple extra years out of most my Macs because of it. Maybe if the "apple tax" wasn't so high......
Maybe you shouldn't take the "Pro" moniker so literally. In Apple speak, it means a product that's nicer and / or more capable and feature-rich vs the Non-Pro version.
Fixed that for you
So radical new hardware, still runs a barely modified version of the OS from the iPhone, probably more expensive than the current version and the sales numbers go...
cmaier
Suspended
My wife and I have owned at least 30 iDevices, and have never had a problem with a home button. And certainly the new taptic button like on the iPhone 7's would be expected to have even fewer problems.
Abazigal
Contributor
Fixed that for you
So radical new hardware, still runs a barely modified version of the OS from the iPhone, probably more expensive than the current version and the sales numbers go...
Some of us actually like that the iPad runs a mobile operating system and have been able to get meaningful work done precisely because it runs iOS, not despite it.
Some of us actually like that the iPad runs a mobile operating system and have been able to get meaningful work done precisely because it runs iOS, not despite it.
Thats lovely, meanwhile the sales of the iPad are sinking like a stone.