And users are right to NOT use these services, especially when said services focus on Apple's nanny view of the world.
Then Apple will either start paying more attention to bugs or start moderating their nanny attitudes.
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Apple Plans Paid iCloud+ Upgrades for Heavy AI Users
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Then Apple will either start paying more attention to bugs or start moderating their nanny attitudes.
What I’d love to see is increased storage amounts. $30 more per month to upgrade from 2TB is a big jump.
CapitalIdea
macrumors 6502a
rp2011
macrumors 68040
Like for what? What is Apple AI going to be good for? That remains to be seen as they do not have a known foundation model. If it's mostly using Gemini, go to Gemini. If you require coding help there is Anthropic. I do not see why I would even need Apple AI for anything other than the basic stuff that doesn't;t require an added premium. I do not even think Apple foresees anyone choosing Apple Intelligence for anything other than basic things. And if anyone is using a lot of it it will probably be children by accident, not anyone on purpose because it is something of added value. I mean, I love that Apple hasn't invested in AI and chose to let everyone else fight it out while they wait tor the dust to settle, but at the same time I know they have the better products. Which is fine. That model works for everyone.
It is more than just Image Playground.
" ...
AFM 3 Cloud, our server-side workhorse, optimized for speed, efficiency, and performance.- ADM 3 Cloud (Image), for image generation and editing, which unlocks advanced photo-editing tools, the all-new Image Playground, and more.
- AFM 3 Cloud Pro, our most capable server-based model, which powers our most demanding use cases, like agentic tool use and complex reasoning.
Introducing the Third Generation of Apple’s Foundation Models
Our next generation of Apple Intelligence is centered around our users, integrated deeply into our operating systems, and powered by a bold…
All the workload that is going to trigger AFM 3 Cloud Pro is a highly likely candidate to be billed for in a iCloud+ subscription. All of that is running on Google Cloud hardware and Google isn't charging $0.00 to use that hardware.
What Cloud Pro does ....
"... Finally, AFM 3 Cloud Pro provides an even further improvement over our AFM 3 Cloud, achieving a relative improvement in overall response satisfaction of roughly 10 percent for text and 14 percent for image understanding overall. AFM 3 Cloud Pro excels in specific task categories such as Math, showing a relative 14 percent improvement over AFM 3 Cloud. ..."
So if ask something that involves a substantive 'problem solving' step then Cloud Pro is likely to do better. There is a big gap from "I'm to lazy to look it up myself" tasks and one that involves some semblance of critical thinking.
This is a narrow viewpoint that probably misses the point. There are two major parts to a solution may ask an AI service for a result on. One is the 'task' and the second is the 'data' that is to be inferences upon. Do you really want to hand health data to Google/OpenAI/Anhtropic?
For the possible large pools of data that are already in iCloud , Apple's private compute cloud probably has in inside track on doing a 'pull' on that data and it not escaping off to some other storage platform. So question should be more layered on what might be valuable insights lying dormant in the iCloud data pool.
Apple should be trying to block children from mindlessly using it. AI I do my homework that requires critical thinking should be 'hidden' behind paywall because most children do not pay their own bills. All that spurious homework shows up on parent's bill and that probably will get closer supervision.
I don't think Apple is trying to make the most bleeding edge AI model, but also not particularly trying to make the weakest one either. Food and water are 'basic' needs and yet people pay for them. Basic doesn't mean 'valueless'.
For example tagging events in a security video monitor stream can help triage false positive events from ones that need attention. that has value, but no "world's leading frontier model' necessary.
It is relatively easy to opt-off of the 365 AI price increase. Just have to look and take a couple steps to do it.
dreamsayer
macrumors member
The point of adding more RAM and NAND to the devices is to run a better Apple Core model on device. The hardware acquisition cost, cooling cost, electricity costs are all zero for Apple there so there is no need to charge from them.
So relatively simple requests like "set an alarm" , "what does calendar say about my mom's Filight arrive time? " , etc. can all happen locally.
In terms of volume of requests that is likely most of what folks will ask Siri. So more of that done locally means a net migration off of Apple's servers for that subclass of tasks.
At the same time there is a subset of tasks Apple would like to attract to their servers which haven't been there before (beyond Siri's abilities... which wasn't hard. ) .
Some of that may be in the form of Support questions better answered. "how do I use a iOS feature like shortcuts to get something done". Folks don't have to travel to an Apple Store (or call Support) for some class of questions.
rp2011
macrumors 68040
Just being realistic. Having said that, hope people find Apple Intelligence useful. Certainly better than Siri and what they had previously.
I thought their AI was going to be local, in other words work on users devices, not online? If so, then how can they charge for something that is running on peoples devices? I realise that more advanced AI will need to go online and maybe that will need to be charged for.
Maybe I am worng.
Well, I know one thing, I will never be charged as I have no intention of using any of it. AI will be turned off, just like it is on my Mac now.
Not that I am in any rush to update to Golden gate,
Maybe I am worng.
Well, I know one thing, I will never be charged as I have no intention of using any of it. AI will be turned off, just like it is on my Mac now.
Not that I am in any rush to update to Golden gate,
Black_Mage
Contributor
I don’t. I immediately lost interest when I discovered it can’t make custom versions of popular characters because copyright. Why does Apple give a rip if I want a custom cartoon picture of Snoopy celebrating Christmas that I’d use in text messages wishing a few people a Merry Christmas?
Black_Mage
Contributor
And I think they would lose because the lawsuit would hinge on arguing that making tools that help people recreate these characters should be sued. Before A.I. there were Photoshop, Gimp, Blender, and a bunch of other tools that can be used to create Snoopy. Should the developers of these apps be sued every time their apps are used to recreate Snoopy? Before that, there were paintbrushes, colored pencils, and other art supplies that can be used to recreate these characters. Should the companies that sell art supplies be sued every time they're used to create Snoopy?
The only real difference is that as technology progresses, the need for skill decreases. I think ease of use is a flimsy argument that wouldn't hold up in court, but I might be wrong.
Post 31 above...
and previously back around WWDC.
"...
Some Apple Intelligence features, including image generation, have daily usage limits because they rely on powerful server models. ..."
iCloud+ Subscribers Get Higher Apple Intelligence Usage Limits in iOS 27
Certain Apple Intelligence features in iOS 27 will carry daily usage limits, with iCloud+ subscribers receiving higher allowances than free users. The company reiterated the details in its press release accompanying yesterday's Apple Intelligence announcements. Apple said the limits apply to...
forums.macrumors.com
There are three different places the Apple Foudnation models run. On device , at Apple hosted Private Cloud Compute (PCC) , and at different implementation of PCC that is deployed at Google Cloud. Siri/Apple Intelligence triages the prompt/requests and dispatches it to what it believes is most appropriate place.
Apple's PCC servers possibly have lower service charges than the Google ones. The most advanced request will be tracked to Google's servers which extremely likely Apple has to pay for that processing. ( Although Google sends them a $10-20B check every year; Apple's cut for Apple users generating lots of ad views. So it may be more barter trade than a check. Apple just gets $4-5B of compute time on Google Cloud and Google sends a smaller amount of cash. But Apple still wants a chunk of that to come in as cash; so pull it from the higher end iCloud+ revenue. That Google ad view check may get smaller over time as user habits change and Google ads are bypassed. )
Pretty good chance anything that gets directed to PCC@Google will get throttled as a couple requests per week (or month) and then Apple will ask for more money.
Apple is likely going to keep the "Siri/AppleIntel doesn't know punt to xxx service" around. So a slippery slope of
how much they will shovel away from their 'for pay' options.
Apple is trying to use an approach similar to Amazon Prime where they bury this inside of iCloud+ . If only use it a bit then there is other stuff to justify the price . Likewise use it a lot and don't find the other parts of iCloud+ as interesting. Take money from both groups with just one 'bundle for everyone' product.
I am hoping for a no-AI plan rather than what I suspect they'll do (like many of the rest of you) and just jack up prices on the other plans—I subscribe to Claude at present for its utility with giving feedback for my creative written work (especially for cross-cultural input—yes, I take it with a grain of salt), but I don't have any use for Playground (I've used it maybe twice and found it a waste of time).
I have Apple One and a separate cloud storage plan (one with Apple and one with Microsoft) at present, but I'd love to trim that down (a 4tb plan would be great rather than a jump up to 6). Or maybe an Apple One plan where you pick and choose your top three services or something.
I have Apple One and a separate cloud storage plan (one with Apple and one with Microsoft) at present, but I'd love to trim that down (a 4tb plan would be great rather than a jump up to 6). Or maybe an Apple One plan where you pick and choose your top three services or something.
Current iCloud+ plans for USA:
- 50 GB: $0.99
- 200 GB: $2.99
- 2 TB: $9.99
- 6 TB: $29.99
- 12 TB: $59.99
Pretty good chance the 50Gb , 200GB , and maybe 2TB stay the same.
For example
" ... Using Apple Intelligence camera features in the Home app will require an iCloud+ plan starting at 2TB, according to Apple. ..."
Some of the AI service entry packages are running $20 a month. 20.00 + 0.99 is 20.99 ... Slap the 'extra AI' on the 6 TB tier and if mainly have 50-200 GB of storage needs , but want more AI prompts then there is the $20. If they uplift a decent amount of users who do not to want fully utilize the 6TB then those folks can help offset the folks with 5.5TB of usage and are heavy AI users. An ideal fit would be folks who just needed 2TB ($9.99) and $20.00 of AI compute. Same $29.99 that the 6TB charges.
If have a 'more than heavy AI' tier might add a 14-16 TB at $99.99 ( the disk storage increase goes sublinear, but the AI benefits are skewed higher. )
The entry tier is mainly single small phone-like device backup (or subset backup). Big picture doesn't make sense to push folks out of affordable backups. The 12*$29.99
I suspect Apple would also like to read most of the data and store the results in the cloud also if possible. Folks with relatively 'tiny' storage drive capacity probably is not a good fit for that. Using the cloud drive for 'scratch' (intermediate) space also likely attractive to them. (PCC has no persistent state drive).
At > 2TB of storage space even if 5-15% of capacity is remaining there is still somewhere to stuff the results.
[ If I recall correctly Siri AI wants to keep previous conversation stuff in your cloud drive also. That too will add up over a large number of conversations. ]
The Apple Intelligence more unique value add is likely going to be layered on data Apple already has privately stored for you. For many folks, they don't need to move it to cloud to inference on it because it is already up there. It is just a different set of serves are going to 'chew' on that data to produce some more data. So it is at least partially coupled to Apple cloud storage .
Each element of Apple One is an independent service that has a revenue stream.
Long term Apple Intelligence might be able to charge on its own. And then there could be a Apple "Extra/Ultra Premium" they could add in on top of the Apple One line up.
But for the immediate future they need to get past the "Siri is an old dog' stage. They are no where near where a sizable number of people will independently pay for what they have delivered so far.
P.S. Google's AI+Cloud bundled plans go
400GB $4.99
5TB $19.99
20TB $99.99
Google AI plans with Cloud Storage - Google One
Explore Google AI plans. Access our most advanced AI, generate videos from text, and secure cloud storage.
one.google.com
Google plain storage Google One non-free pricing starts at:
100GB $1.99
200GB $2.99
Get More Storage, More AI capabilities, and More Features - Google One
Google One bundles cloud storage, powerful AI capabilities, and helpful features across Google — all in one shareable plan.
one.google.com
Google isn't attaching "more access to compute" AI to the bottommost storage service either. ( Google subsidizes with ads and what not. Some of iCloud is running on Google servers so Apple has additional overhead since outsource a substantive amount of that work out. And at the moment, willing to loose money on Frontier AI services just like their other major competitors. I highly doubt Apple is going to try to 'buy' market share here. If AI compute cost substantial money they charge for it. If doesn't work at prices that can actually turn a profit they'll just turn it off after giving it a decent chance to catch some marketshare. )
Last edited:
i know some of it will run on servers, but only the higher end stuff.Post 31 above...
and previously back around WWDC.
"...
Some Apple Intelligence features, including image generation, have daily usage limits because they rely on powerful server models. ..."
iCloud+ Subscribers Get Higher Apple Intelligence Usage Limits in iOS 27
Certain Apple Intelligence features in iOS 27 will carry daily usage limits, with iCloud+ subscribers receiving higher allowances than free users. The company reiterated the details in its press release accompanying yesterday's Apple Intelligence announcements. Apple said the limits apply to...
There are three different places the Apple Foudnation models run. On device , at Apple hosted Private Cloud Compute (PCC) , and at different implementation of PCC that is deployed at Google Cloud. Siri/Apple Intelligence triages the prompt/requests and dispatches it to what it believes is most appropriate place.
Apple's PCC servers possibly have lower service charges than the Google ones. The most advanced request will be tracked to Google's servers which extremely likely Apple has to pay for that processing. ( Although Google sends them a $10-20B check every year; Apple's cut for Apple users generating lots of ad views. So it may be more barter trade than a check. Apple just gets $4-5B of compute time on Google Cloud and Google sends a smaller amount of cash. But Apple still wants a chunk of that to come in as cash; so pull it from the higher end iCloud+ revenue. That Google ad view check may get smaller over time as user habits change and Google ads are bypassed. )
Pretty good chance anything that gets directed to PCC@Google will get throttled as a couple requests per week (or month) and then Apple will ask for more money.
Apple is likely going to keep the "Siri/AppleIntel doesn't know punt to xxx service" around. So a slippery slope of
how much they will shovel away from their 'for pay' options.
Apple is trying to use an approach similar to Amazon Prime where they bury this inside of iCloud+ . If only use it a bit then there is other stuff to justify the price . Likewise use it a lot and don't find the other parts of iCloud+ as interesting. Take money from both groups with just one 'bundle for everyone' product.
I don't use Apple cloud at all, computer is not even signed in to Apple account.
I am thinking of having a muck around with local AI on my Linux desktop, but it would not be online.
If you code, then Siri AI is not for you--presently, anyway. I am sure we will be able to code macOS and iOS apps using Siri AI in the coming years. Or at least it is on the table for discussion