Apple Poised to Become World's Top-Selling PC Vendor with Tablets Included

[Joe-Diver]

Saying the iPad/iPhone is not a computer is ridiculous. They have:

1. CPU
2. Memory
3. Persistant Storage
4. Power Supply
5. User Interface
6. Operating System
7. Display
8. I/O
9. Ability to run programs
10. Can connect to networks

They are far more "computer" than my Apple II, Vic20, Commodore64, Amiga 500...ever were. Those were all considered "computers". By what definition are they not computers? Some narrow minded pigeon holed term that requires a tower, separate monitor, keyboard, printer that all sits on a desk? I guess then that the old mainframes were not computers then either. And the Earth is flat, the center of the universe, and everything revolves around it.

 

[AidenShaw]

Do second or third laptops/desktops not count as PCs?

Of course, since they would still be "PCs" even if no other PCs were in the house.

Basically, the thought is that

• if the Ipad is the only computing device in the house, then calling it a PC is somewhat more justifiable
• however, if there are real PCs in the house, then the Ipad is a lightweight adjunct to them

To use an historical analogy - back in the day my department in the college in the university bought a VAX-11/780.

We also bought a bunch of VT-52 terminals.

Although the VAX was rather useless without having a VT-52 to access it, nobody thought that the VT-52s were computers.

Just think about the parallels.... Is an Ipad a real PC, or just a dumb (or semi-dumb) terminal (or smart calculator) unless it's used with a real PC? (Hint - if you haven't gotten rid of your real PC, the Ipad is probably not a real PC for you.)

 

[BaldiMac]

Of course, since they would still be "PCs" even if no other PCs were in the house.

Basically, the thought is that

• if the Ipad is the only computing device in the house, then calling it a PC is somewhat more justifiable
• however, if there are real PCs in the house, then the Ipad is a lightweight adjunct to them

To use an historical analogy - back in the day my department in the college in the university bought a VAX-11/780.

We also bought a bunch of VT-52 terminals.

Image​

Although the VAX was rather useless without having a VT-52 to access it, nobody thought that the VT-52s were computers.

Or you could just look up the definition of the term Personal Computer and verify whether or not the iPad meets that definition. Or to get back on the topic of the thread, you could do an analysis of the PC market such as the one conducted by Canalys to see if the iPad does actually compete significantly in that market.

Just think about the parallels.... Is an Ipad a real PC, or just a dumb (or semi-dumb) terminal (or smart calculator) unless it's used with a real PC? (Hint - if you haven't gotten rid of your real PC, the Ipad is not a real PC.)

That's just made up logic. I never got rid of my desktop when I bought my laptop. Not many people would get rid of their main PC when the buy a netbook.

(FWIW, if I were to buy an iPad, it would be as a laptop replacement. My mother already uses one as her only PC.)

 

[AidenShaw]

(FWIW, if I were to buy an iPad, it would be as a laptop replacement. My mother already uses one as her only PC.)

In essence, then, your mother's Ipad is just like a VT-52 - a dumb terminal that displays info from another real computer. Without the other real computer, the Ipad would be an expensive mirror.

Far from "made up logic"....
_____________________________

And I'm not saying that the Ipad is a bad thing - it's all that some people need, and all that others need for some/many of their tasks.

The original question is whether it makes sense to count an Ipad as equivalent to a dual socket 16-core Xeon workstation - or whether keyboardless touch-screen tablets should be a separate category.

...and whether the "keyboardless touch-screen tablet" category is 10" screen and above (eliminating the Ipad), or 9" or 8" or 7" or 6" or 5" or 4" or 3.5" and above.

It's only "made up logic" to say that an Ipad is a PC and an Iphone (or Ipod Touch) is not.

 

[thenerdal]

Or you could just look up the definition of the term Personal Computer and verify whether or not the iPad meets that definition. Or to get back on the topic of the thread, you could do an analysis of the PC market such as the one conducted by Canalys to see if the iPad does actually compete significantly in that market.

If the iPad does compete in the PC market, then the iPad would be in the PC section in Amazon, but it's not. It has it's own market. That's the Tablet Market.

(FWIW, if I were to buy an iPad, it would be as a laptop replacement. My mother already uses one as her only PC.)

Replacing a laptop does not make the iPad a PC. I replaced my books with an e-reader. That does not make the e-reader a book.

 

[Dbrown]

LOL Just because ipad can do some of the things a personal computer can doesnt make it a personal computer.

If you choose to run linux on a Playstation 3, you could use it to replace a personal computer too. Hell even the USAF uses PS3s to run complex simulations. But no one in their right mind would say PS3 is a personal computer.

 

[subsonix]

If you choose to run linux on a Playstation 3, you could use it to replace a personal computer too. Hell even the USAF uses PS3s to run complex simulations. But no one in their right mind would say PS3 is a personal computer.

What is the difference?

 

[Dbrown]

What is the difference?

So you're saying a PS3 sale should be counted as a PC sale?

 

[subsonix]

So you're saying a PS3 sale should be counted as a PC sale?

No, I asked you a question.

If you install linux on a ps3 why isn't it then a personal computer, what is the difference.

 

[DeathChill]

If the iPad does compete in the PC market, then the iPad would be in the PC section in Amazon, but it's not. It has it's own market. That's the Tablet Market.

Thank God you cleared it up with that gem. It's been decided everybody, go home.

 

[Dbrown]

No, I asked you a question.

If you install linux on a ps3 why isn't it then a personal computer, what is the difference.

So then you do acknowledge there is a difference.

 

[firewood]

So then you do acknowledge there is a difference.

There's also a big difference between a Alienware tower and a Mac Mini and an Acer linux netbook. Yet, some analysts lump them all (and more) into the same market category.

 

[thenerdal]

There's also a big difference between a Alienware tower and a Mac Mini and an Acer linux netbook. Yet, some analysts lump them all (and more) into the same market category.

They're all PC's. Alienware tower is a desktop PC, Mac Mini is a Small Form Factor Desktop PC, netbooks are mobile PC's.

 

[Dbrown]

There's also a big difference between a Alienware tower and a Mac Mini and an Acer linux netbook. Yet, some analysts lump them all (and more) into the same market category.

So you think PS3 should be lumped in the same market category as those PCs you just mentioned?

 

[subsonix]

So then you do acknowledge there is a difference.

No, you seemed very convinced about there being a significant difference. You said:

If you choose to run linux on a Playstation 3, you could use it to replace a personal computer too. Hell even the USAF uses PS3s to run complex simulations. But no one in their right mind would say PS3 is a personal computer.

All I'm doing is asking you what the difference is then.

 

[Joe-Diver]

Definition of COMPUTER

: one that computes; specifically : a programmable usually electronic device that can store, retrieve, and process data

Definition of PERSONAL COMPUTER

: a general-purpose computer equipped with a microprocessor and designed to run especially commercial software (as a word processor or Internet browser) for an individual user

(Merriam-Webster)

Both devices easily meet the definition of "computer". The definition of "personal computer" is harder to meet though, because of the "general-purpose" requirement. Since the iPad is just a large iPhone without telephone capability, they should be considered the "same" as far as capability and physical structure. The iPad produces a different user experience because of it's size and intent, but still a specialized computer. Can the "general-purpose" requirement be met by the iPad?

 

[BaldiMac]

In essence, then, your mother's Ipad is just like a VT-52 - a dumb terminal that displays info from another real computer.

Your calling it a dumb terminal doesn't actually make it one. A dumb terminal has no CPU or storage.

Without the other real computer, the Ipad would be an expensive mirror.

If you want to ignore the things you can do out of the box without connecting to another computer.

And I'm not saying that the Ipad is a bad thing - it's all that some people need, and all that others need for some/many of their tasks.

The original question is whether it makes sense to count an Ipad as equivalent to a dual socket 16-core Xeon workstation - or whether keyboardless touch-screen tablets should be a separate category.

...and whether the "keyboardless touch-screen tablet" category is 10" screen and above (eliminating the Ipad), or 9" or 8" or 7" or 6" or 5" or 4" or 3.5" and above.

It's only "made up logic" to say that an Ipad is a PC and an Iphone (or Ipod Touch) is not.

You are talking about two different things.

1) By definition, an iPad and an iPhone are both PCs. Neither would likely be called that in general use.

2) The point of the thread is whether iPads compete in the PC market, regardless of whether you want to call it a PC or not. Multiple market analysts, including Canalys, have found the iPad to have a significant impact on the low end of the PC market.

If the iPad does compete in the PC market, then the iPad would be in the PC section in Amazon, but it's not. It has it's own market. That's the Tablet Market.

Good one! Amazon is the ultimate arbiter of market analysis.

Replacing a laptop does not make the iPad a PC.

No, the definition of the term "Personal Computer" makes the iPad a PC.

A significant percentage of the PC market replacing laptops with iPads makes the iPad part of the PC market.

I replaced my books with an e-reader. That does not make the e-reader a book.

Good example! the e-books that you purchased to read on your e-reader are usually included in an analysis of the overall book market, despite being different things than physical books.

 

[diamond.g]

Your calling it a dumb terminal doesn't actually make it one. A dumb terminal has no CPU or storage.



If you want to ignore the things you can do out of the box without connecting to another computer.



You are talking about two different things.

1) By definition, an iPad and an iPhone are both PCs. Neither would likely be called that in general use.

2) The point of the thread is whether iPads compete in the PC market, regardless of whether you want to call it a PC or not. Multiple market analysts, including Canalys, have found the iPad to have a significant impact on the low end of the PC market.



Good one! Amazon is the ultimate arbiter of market analysis.



No, the definition of the term "Personal Computer" makes the iPad a PC.

A significant percentage of the PC market replacing laptops with iPads makes the iPad part of the PC market.



Good example! the e-books that you purchased to read on your e-reader are usually included in an analysis of the overall book market, despite being different things than physical books.

Doesn't the definition of the term "Personal Computer" make Smartphones PCs as well?

I am all for calling the iPad a PC if we can all agree that the iPhone and iPod Touch (and by extension every smartphone) should be included as well.

 

[Dbrown]

No, you seemed very convinced about there being a significant difference. You said:



All I'm doing is asking you what the difference is then.

Great, you also acknowledge that a PS3 and PC shouldnt be lumped together then.

 

[subsonix]

Great, you also acknowledge that a PS3 and PC shouldnt be lumped together then.

Reading comprehension. I don't see any difference between a personal computer and a PS3 with linux. You claim there is one, but yet you have failed to give any examples of how they differ. Perhaps there are no difference then.

 

[firewood]

Doesn't the definition of the term "Personal Computer" make Smartphones PCs as well?

Many are. Sufficiently capable PDAs are as well.

As for game consoles, my take is that if you have to root, mod or hardware hack to run your desired non-game apps on it, it is something that can be turned into a personal computer, but isn't sold as such.

But if a device, affordable and light enough to be carried out of a consumer retail store, allows the typical user, without modification, to choose, install and run common personal computing software applications (browser, spreadsheet, database, etc.), then it fits the definition of a computer that's personal, e.g. a personal computer.

 

[thenerdal]

No, the definition of the term "Personal Computer" makes the iPad a PC.

The definition of the term PC makes any smartphone a PC as well. Look at the Wikipedia page of PC for a better definition and examples of what a PC is. A modern tablet is not in the article.

A significant percentage of the PC market replacing laptops with iPads makes the iPad part of the PC market.

It doesn't make the iPad a part of the PC market. It just means that people prefer tablets than PC's.

Good example! the e-books that you purchased to read on your e-reader are usually included in an analysis of the overall book market, despite being different things than physical books.

There's a book market and a e-reader/e-book market.

 

[Renzatic]

Lots and lots and lots of splitting hairs in this topic.

To me, the iPad is a PC. It might not be able to do as much as our PC's, but then again, we're all a part of the high end enthusiast tech niche.

So you think capabilities are the sole reason why the iPad shouldn't be considered a PC? Because it can't do everything your PC does, it should be excluded? Then answer me this...

You have a Mac Mini, and a Mac Pro. The Mac mini can offer up a similar experience, and can do the basics, much like the Pro, but it can't do everything the Pro can. Try to play a recent game on it, the Mini will choke and die. Try to do some high end rendering on it, and it'll take 5 hours and heat up hotter than the surface of the sun.

Basically the Mini is good for surfing the internet, playing some low end games, watching movies, checking your email, doing office work, such as word processing or spreadsheets. Does that make it any less of a computer than the Mac Pro? Because it can't do everything it can?

Now take the iPad. It can do about the same things as the Mini. If you want to surf the internet, play some low end games, ect ect ect...it can do it. Granted, the iPad isn't exactly the most optimal place to do spreadsheets and office work, but it can still do it.

But it can't do everything the Pro can.

So is the iPad less of a PC than the Mini, which is less of a PC than the Pro?

To me, a PC is what you need it to be. If it fulfills your needs, then it's your PC.

SO GEEZ, PEOPLE! GAWWW!

 

[leroypants]

Saying the iPad/iPhone is not a computer is ridiculous. They have:

1. CPU
2. Memory
3. Persistant Storage
4. Power Supply
5. User Interface
6. Operating System
7. Display
8. I/O
9. Ability to run programs
10. Can connect to networks

So does the Xbox, the PS3, the PSP and the Nintendo WII, the 3ds and the DS...

 

[BaldiMac]

Doesn't the definition of the term "Personal Computer" make Smartphones PCs as well?

Yep. I already said that:

1) By definition, an iPad and an iPhone are both PCs. Neither would likely be called that in general use.

I am all for calling the iPad a PC if we can all agree that the iPhone and iPod Touch (and by extension every smartphone) should be included as well.

Again, two different things. What something is and whether or not it should be included in an analysis of a particular market are not the same thing.

The definition of the term PC makes any smartphone a PC as well.

Yep.

Look at the Wikipedia page of PC for a better definition and examples of what a PC is. A modern tablet is not in the article.

From Wikipedia: "A personal computer (PC) is any general-purpose computer whose size, capabilities, and original sales price make it useful for individuals, and which is intended to be operated directly by an end-user with no intervening computer operator."

It doesn't make the iPad a part of the PC market. It just means that people prefer tablets than PC's.

Maybe you don't understand what a market is.

There's a book market and a e-reader/e-book market.

Yep. And there is also a market that includes both.