Apple Portable Updates?

[SiliconAddict]

I am an IT manager for a 65-person (sorry - PC only) company and buy lots of Dells (don't worry - I have a mac at home, and am currently craving a PB15!). In general, I don't find Dell laptops to be very competitive with others (Toshiba, Sony, et. al.) in the PC world, but we do like their desktops.

I have an office of 250 users. We also use Dell. Their hardware is a mixed bag IMHO. The desktops have been rock solid since we upgraded 2 years ago. Laptops. The 4 year old ones have started to have hard drive failures left and right whether this be because of abuse, age, or simply because 60% of those users are out of the office traveling 80% of the time I'm not sure.
Because of this we've moved to IBM ThinkPads. Drastically better quality. However I own a Toshiba laptop right now and I've been impressed with the quality and reliability of the system.

For those that are dumping on these devices simply because they aren't pretty enough or because they aren't metal. Get real. Metal laptops have their problems just as plastic laptops have problems. I've yet to see a plastic laptop get dented and I've seen my Tosh get banged around to the point where a metal case would have gotten scruffs all over the face of the system. But obviously metal cases dissipate heat more efficiently and look prettier.

It comes down to personal preference for most and that goes beyond technical specs to something that can't be determined by anyone here. If I HAD to choose though metal would be pref but I wouldn't balk at plastic. Sure as heck iBook users aren't.

 

[Wonder Boy]

My status says newbie, but I have been reading these posts and forums for over the last, and I also spent just as much as everyone else on their iBook's and PowerMac's so I have an opinion just as much as everyone else.

Everyone from Arn to any newbie has the same right to voice an opinion.

i'm not disputing your right to coment. please feel free. i was mearly making an observation that those making the biggest fuss over this rumor are those with very few posts (newbies). its not a personal attack on newbies, a lot of them may know more than i do, but i noticed a lot of moaning coming from newbies and felt it to be interesting.

 

[the future]

Those are NOT subnotebooks. Look up the term before you start spouting out such junk. ... The 12" PowerBook which IS a notebook has a 12.1" screen. The Toshiba and Dell both have 12.1" screens as well.

Well, for you screen size seems to define (sub-)notebook, for me an in-built optical drive does. No need to call other opinions "junk".

 

[Snowy_River]

Speaking to the original thread...you know this means no new Powerbook g5's for a long...long time. And we can all also expect that Rev.A is going to have major problems, so realistically, at the rate Apple's been going, you can expect a reliable and quick g5 PB in 1.75-2 years. sucks, doesn't it? I think I'll just have to suck it up and buy a PB g4.

Why do you think it'll be another 2 years? That makes no sense whatsoever. I could see the technical issues lasting maybe another year, but two? I find that dubious at best. If Apple can't get the PBs away from G4 chips (at least the current flavor of G4s that Moto is producing), then they're going to have some serious problems. Status symbols or not (and yes I do love my 12"PB), the industry isn't going to stand still. Currently the PBs are at the low end of being competitive. If they're still using G4s for two more years, they'll be so hopelessly outclassed by the PC side that Apple would almost do better to simply discontinue the line...

 

[denm316]

i'm not disputing your right to coment. please feel free. i was mearly making an observation that those making the biggest fuss over this rumor are those with very few posts (newbies). its not a personal attack on newbies, a lot of them may know more than i do, but i noticed a lot of moaning coming from newbies and felt it to be interesting.

Sorry if I took it the wrong way, I totally understand your point, I also think that alot of people who are newbies are also alot of the people waiting for updates. Probably a friend has a mac and told them hey check out this site before you buy. And if I was them I would be annoyed and complaining alot to.

I bought an iBook back in May because it was cheaper because I thought I wouldnt really like Apple, if I knew what I know now about the hardware\software and how much I love everything I would have easily spent the greater amount of money on the 12 inch power book. Since then I have a new PowerMAC and am dying to get my hands on a Powerbook, I just sit here like everyone else and anticipate what might be next for the 12 or the 15, I am not annoyed that they wont be G5's I just want to see some new technology on them thats all.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Well, for you screen size seems to define (sub-)notebook, for me an in-built optical drive does. No need to call other opinions "junk".

The way your post read you didn't make an opinion. You stated something as fact. That fact being that the system was a subnotebook. A appreciate opinions. Opinions is what makes MR a cool site. Sorry if I misinterpreted you post.
As for subnotebooks typically are the ones that have 80% full sized keyboard. Good examples are the Portage 610CT. Rule of thumb. If you look the at system and think there is no way in hell I could do any work on that thing...you are looking at a subnotebook. The model mentioned above is about 20% larger then a hardbound book. The 12" PowerBook has a fullsized keyboard. Small screen but everything else is full sized. Consider the keyboard in the 17" 15" and 12" PowerBooks are identical.

 

[TWinbrook46636]

Hmm, the X300 has a 12" 1024x768 screen, just like the 12" AlBook.

It's only 0.1" narrower than the 12" PB (10.8" vs. 10.9"). It's even 0.6" deeper than the 12" PB (9.2" vs. 8.6").

Sorry, but that's not a sub-notebook - it's a full fledged notebook for people who prefer light and thin instead of a builtin DVD....

The "but it's a sub-notebook" is just as hollow as the "but that's a workstation, not a desktop" arguments at the G5 intro! You can't artificially define categories - these are full laptops that compete directly with the 12".

Aluminum dents...

It is not a full laptop unless it has a built-in drive. How is this not a sub-notebook? That's the same as saying you have a desktop-replacement laptop when it doesn't even have ports. Talk about artificially defining categories!

 

[Peej]

G4's G5's

I'm happy with the G4 powerbook, I've got the 1GHz 12" and it's good enough for editing in Photoshop CS, Illustrator, web surfing, and big Excel files. The time I save not figuring out why the PC isn't doing what I want it to MORE than makes up for the supposed lack of speed. The Al G4 PB is in its prime, let's all enjoy it!

peej

 

[Snowy_River]

The way your post read you didn't make an opinion. You stated something as fact. That fact being that the system was a subnotebook. A appreciate opinions. Opinions is what makes MR a cool site. Sorry if I misinterpreted you post.
As for subnotebooks typically are the ones that have 80% full sized keyboard. Good examples are the Portage 610CT. Rule of thumb. If you look the at system and think there is no way in hell I could do any work on that thing...you are looking at a subnotebook. The model mentioned above is about 20% larger then a hardbound book. The 12" PowerBook has a fullsized keyboard. Small screen but everything else is full sized. Consider the keyboard in the 17" 15" and 12" PowerBooks are identical.

Just to join the fray, you also stated your opinion that these were not subnotebooks as fact, not opinion. In a venue such as this, it's important to realize that things like categorizations are almost always opinions, but will almost always be stated as facts.

The definition of a subnotebook varies. Typically, it is a laptop computer that has taken one or more of the following steps to reduce its size and weight: omission of an optical drive; omission of a floppy drive; smaller screen size; smaller keyboard size. Thus, it could be argued that all of the PowerBooks are subnotebooks, as they all omit a floppy drive. Of course, that would be a false argument, as Apple has given up use of floppy drives altogether. But, if we were to take any one of these as a defining factor for a subnotebook, then the two PC laptops in question do seem to fall into that category.

 

[apalmleis]

Coming Soon

It has been interesting to see this all unfold. I do think that apple will come out with something in very near future. It has to. My PB 15" Ti 1GHz/SD is now 510 days old (purchased 11/15/02) and by looking at the current 15" model, the 1.25 Ghz is only 13-20% faster (depending on which article you read)... so for 17 months, not a large improvement (it does have a Radeon 9600 vs 9000, increase GHz, but they took out the L3 cache). The major improvement was not in speed, but in form factor of increase HD (80 GB vs 60 GB), bluetooth, FW800, airport extreme, backlit keyboard and Aluminum casing. Since last year was the year of the powerbook, it was pretty dismal in announcements. Makes me think that whatever was to occur last year, is going to happen at the beginning of this year. It being April already, there should be something soon. Just my opinion.

 

[TWinbrook46636]

Just to join the fray, you also stated your opinion that these were not subnotebooks as fact, not opinion. In a venue such as this, it's important to realize that things like categorizations are almost always opinions, but will almost always be stated as facts.

The definition of a subnotebook varies. Typically, it is a laptop computer that has taken one or more of the following steps to reduce its size and weight: omission of an optical drive; omission of a floppy drive; smaller screen size; smaller keyboard size. Thus, it could be argued that all of the PowerBooks are subnotebooks, as they all omit a floppy drive. Of course, that would be a false argument, as Apple has given up use of floppy drives altogether. But, if we were to take any one of these as a defining factor for a subnotebook, then the two PC laptops in question do seem to fall into that category.

I think it is just common sense. There are two other 12.1" laptops from Dell that do have built-in drives so why didn't he compare those? Because he wanted to make it seem like Dell was offering all the same features and performance in a smaller package. This is not true.

If I remove the drive from my 12" iBook will it make it a sub-notebook?

 

[Photorun]

Tossing my hat in the ring because this seems to be devolving to peecee forums of circle jerking Dull Computer. The school where I work (sadly) went to a lot of Dull junk machines three years ago, overall it was the actual REAL reason any company would do that, not to save money, but to spend more, since the institution was 80/20 Macs/peecees with 8000 students and only three well Mac versed low key not busy IT people, it's flipped in ten years to 20/80 Macs/peecees and now needs 11, always very busy, anti Mac people, mostly from the top, the head IT person, who likes control and will be hiring three more IT people, and must get hummers (not the SUV) from the Dell sleazy rep who I see slinking around in plastic suits and being smarmy... peecees cost more, crash more, and are just not as good. /rant there

As far as laptops there's a few Dulls, they weigh a ton, and quite a few are at the bookstore DOA or stopped working. We opened a cafe and they (stupidly) went with Dull lapbricks (these things weigh a ton), and are clunky, I played on one for a moment or two, choppy perforance with Windoze XtP). There's a station where you rent them out and can surf WiFi at this cafe (I walk in with my iBook all the time, I'd drag my G5 but you know, kinda heavy). In the station there's 24 of them in cubbie holes, of which seven are marked with a "do not use" made sticker. I asked the person behind the counter why and she said they were "busted" or didn't work. Mind you, the cafe was only open two weeks when I asked that.

So that's Dull laptops to a tee. That's also the peecee world and why I'm on a Mac. I tend to like machines that, you know... actually work?! Who'd thunk it! And yes, machines that look better is just an added bonus!

 

[Windowlicker]

nothing new, probably

although there isn't really any "rumor" or "news" on this article, i still would very much like apple to bump some more power on the models. still not decided if i want an ibook or a powerbook.. starting a job at a local apple retail shop after about a week..

 

[Gibson424]

New Ipods wouldn't be that bad either, I would get a new top of the line one as soon as they came out thanks to the compusa tap, but the powerbooks and all the rumors and nothing coming out is rediculous. But who cares about a G4 powerbook, when is the G5 coming?

Where did all this talk about new iPods come from? I just invested in a 10 gb (same price as the mini, more than twice the capacity..woohoo!) and it'd be a shame to see a brand spankin' new one released so soon..well..for me anyways. Did I miss something?

 

[Bhennies]

Why do you think it'll be another 2 years? That makes no sense whatsoever. I could see the technical issues lasting maybe another year, but two? I find that dubious at best. If Apple can't get the PBs away from G4 chips (at least the current flavor of G4s that Moto is producing), then they're going to have some serious problems. Status symbols or not (and yes I do love my 12"PB), the industry isn't going to stand still. Currently the PBs are at the low end of being competitive. If they're still using G4s for two more years, they'll be so hopelessly outclassed by the PC side that Apple would almost do better to simply discontinue the line...

I didn't say that Apple wasn't going to release any powerbook g5 at all for 2 years, I'm talking about rev. B of the g5 powerbook. Assuming that the powerbook g5 is announced next fall-winter and ships a month later (it's NOT going to be announced at WWDC, I think that that's wishful thinking), that will be .75 years from now, and given the way that Apple's been updating their products, the second revision of the powerbook g5 (major revision) will be approx. 9 months to a year later. That makes it 1.75 years until we have a reliable product. I will certainly not risk buying the first model Rev. A g5 powerbook...there's gonna be a lot of problems with it, no question about that. My 2 cents.

 

[Zaty]

I didn't say that Apple wasn't going to release any powerbook g5 at all for 2 years, I'm talking about rev. B of the g5 powerbook. Assuming that the powerbook g5 is announced next fall-winter and ships a month later (it's NOT going to be announced at WWDC, I think that that's wishful thinking), that will be .75 years from now, and given the way that Apple's been updating their products, the second revision of the powerbook g5 (major revision) will be approx. 9 months to a year later. That makes it 1.75 years until we have a reliable product. I will certainly not risk buying the first model Rev. A g5 powerbook...there's gonna be a lot of problems with it, no question about that. My 2 cents.

I couldn't agree more. If Apple has a roadmap, it will look like this.

 

[Dave the Great]

guess what... NEXT TUESDAY!!

That's awesome!!

Can't Wait!!

 

[Parikh1234]

Here is Apple's Senior Manager of Inverstor Relations when I emailed him about why the company has come to a standstill. (I have alot of money invested in apple).

Hello Shivam,
Apple has a strict policy of not pre-announcing product or other announcements. We don't provide a product road map or talk about future products under development. We do this for competitive reasons. Our policy can be frustrating to investors, but as an innovator in the PC Industry, we don't feel we have any choice.

Best regards,
Joan Hoover
Sr. Manager, Investor Relations

Well duh, i knew that!

 

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Just makes you want to cash out your life insurance and write them a check, doesn't it?

Here is Apple's Senior Manager of Inverstor Relations when I emailed him about why the company has come to a standstill. (I have alot of money invested in apple).

Hello Shivam,
Apple has a strict policy of not pre-announcing product or other announcements. We don't provide a product road map or talk about future products under development. We do this for competitive reasons. Our policy can be frustrating to investors, but as an innovator in the PC Industry, we don't feel we have any choice.

Best regards,
Joan Hoover
Sr. Manager, Investor Relations

Well duh, i knew that!

 

[Phinius]

G4 will probably be upgraded around July.

If Apple can't get the PBs away from G4 chips (at least the current flavor of G4s that Moto is producing), then they're going to have some serious problems.

Why do so many Mac users come to the erroneous conclusion that the G4 cannot or will not get significant performance improvements? Last year Motorola stated that the G4 will double in frequency approximately every 18 months. Since the G4 reached 1Ghz at the end of January in 2003, that means Motorola expects the G4 to reach 2 GHz about the end of July this year. This upcoming G4 is scheduled to get a on-board memory controller, the capability for DDR-2 memory, RapidIO (similar to Hyperthreading) and also have a dual-processor chip. An Apple spokesperson has publicly stated that Apple has no intentions of dropping the G4 in the near term and that Motorola continues to improve the design.

There are several ways to get higher performance from a processor. One of those is MHz. But it can also be had by adding more on-board cache like the Pentium-M, and also by using a on-board memory controller or putting two processors on a chip like the Power4.

The Pentium-M is expected to reach 2.17 GHz with the process shrink coming from Dothan in May. The G4s performance should stack up very well against the Pentium-M in about July, with the G4s expected aforementioned improvements.

Motorola also mentioned that the G4 will get architectural improvements to bring it to 3+ GHz. That would probably mean extending the pipeline stages to about 10 from it's current 7 stages. The G4 started out at 4 pipeline stages which the IBM 970 is currently at.

 

[Sonofhaig]

Here is Apple's Senior Manager of Inverstor Relations when I emailed him about why the company has come to a standstill. (I have alot of money invested in apple).

Hello Shivam,
Apple has a strict policy of not pre-announcing product or other announcements. We don't provide a product road map or talk about future products under development. We do this for competitive reasons. Our policy can be frustrating to investors, but as an innovator in the PC Industry, we don't feel we have any choice.

Best regards,
Joan Hoover
Sr. Manager, Investor Relations

Well duh, i knew that!

"I emailed him about why the company has come to a standstill..."
I totally agree now on this! APPLE, what the heck is going on?
"Throw me a frickin bone here..." I have never been so bored being an Apple fan!

 

[Snowy_River]

If I remove the drive from my 12" iBook will it make it a sub-notebook?

Well, no. But if Apple were to remove the drive in order to reduce the form-factor and the weight, then yes...

 

[Snowy_River]

Why do so many Mac users come to the erroneous conclusion that the G4 cannot or will not get significant performance improvements? ... This upcoming G4 is scheduled to get a on-board memory controller, the capability for DDR-2 memory, RapidIO (similar to Hyperthreading) and also have a dual-processor chip....

Well, then that would be a different flavor of G4, now wouldn't it? Didn't I say that the problem would be if Apple couldn't get away from the current flavor of G4 (i.e. limited FSB, limited clockspeed, etc.)? I think that most Mac users are dubious about Moto's continuing advancement of the G4 because they really don't have a great track record of advancing the G4. It's all good that they say they're going to do something, but actions speak louder than words, and at this point we've seen a bit too much inaction from Moto to trust their words...

 

[ccuilla]

I think most of us realize that, with regard to product announcements and road maps, Apple is somewhat unique in this industry. They appear to get a fair amount of mileage out of the "thunder" they create when they surprise people. They also, generally, establish a competitive head start that could be, often, easily eclipsed if important new things leaked.

A great example of this was the rumored McDonald's music give away deal. Whether Apple was really doing something or not we don't know. But suppose they were, and it leaked (as it appears to have). Now a fierce competitor (Sony) discovers that a) McDonald's is interested in music, and b) they are willing to deal on it, and c) they better move fast to see if they can screw Apple out of the contract.

We may not like this secrecy very much, but it is a reality, perhaps a necessary one. When, if such a time ever happens, Apple were to regain market share...say into the 10-20% range, it is possible this approach could change. Though I doubt it.

The new machines will get here when they do. All of the hand-wringing and chastizing Apple won't accelerate the process at all.

One other thing I would add is this...some things take time. Sometimes there is a tough problem to solve...a problem (or problems) that most of us will NEVER know about. Why? Because it is none of a) our business, and b) our concern.

So many folks in these boards seem to operate from the eminently irrational position that "Because I want it to be, so it should be." Sorry to tell you, it doesn't work this way.

 

[apalmleis]

Why do so many Mac users come to the erroneous conclusion that the G4 cannot or will not get significant performance improvements? Last year Motorola stated that the G4 will double in frequency approximately every 18 months. Since the G4 reached 1Ghz at the end of January in 2003, that means Motorola expects the G4 to reach 2 GHz about the end of July this year .

Umm, I recieved my 1 GHz Ti PB on November 15, 2002... 17 months ago. Therefore, according to your calculations, then next month we should be at 2 gHz, but we are still at 1.25 for the 15" PB....