Apple Portable Updates?

[tabascoishot]

not at all... and its overpriced... and it runs windows...

ill still take a powerbook any day of the week...

dell = ford/chevy <-- they can make it as thin and crippled as they want
but it will never be a status symbol...

I'm a switcher, and am very happy with my ibook, but the neccessity of having a computer as a "status symbol" was never my motivation for using a mac. We as mac users recognize that there are specialized tasks (for me using FCP) that our computers excel at.

You throw around the term "status symbol" like those upper east side girls that purchase every single iPod Mini color just for the "neccessity" to accessorize. Sure, I have gotten compliments on the iBook's styling, but this is because most people have never SEEN one. I appreciate the things that my mac does well (and it is a superior laptop to nearly every pc one out there), but it's not a measure of status to me.

I actually prefer using the mac in anonymity. Look at the iPods now. Here in New York City I've heard the term "iPod as$holes" thrown around more than a couple times. The broke college student (myself) is sacrificing to use the toys of the elite, upper crust, WASP-y, and white (kind of a given)!!

The moment pc apps become as usuable and friendly as FCP and iLife (probably never, but you never know) I'll probably head right back. Before you get your panties in a bunch and start calling me a "sellout," I"ll tell you my reasoning. Whether you like Michael Dell or not, he's right in calling Apple the "Bang and Olufson" of the computer business. If a web browser and word processing work on a PC equally well, what's the motivation to spend at least $1k more on a mac? Just b/c you can AFFORD it doesn't mean you should do it. Rich people didn't get rich by being stupid (unless you count J.Lo's mom). So you can color-code and prioritize your icons? Whirl around Expose and show how much of a OS X hotshot you are?

So in conclusion, you're not hot sh*t because of you have a mac and it should not be representative of what you've got in your wallet, but instead what's up in your head.

 

[~Shard~]

Ooooh, another Motorola G4 update for the PowerBook - well, at Motorola's current pace of processor speed advancement, all I can say is, "Bring on the 1.34 GHz G4 17" PowerBooks!"

 

[tsk]

not at all... and its overpriced... and it runs windows...

ill still take a powerbook any day of the week...

dell = ford/chevy <-- they can make it as thin and crippled as they want
but it will never be a status symbol...

Geesh. Good to know what you guys want in a computer. A freaking status symbol?

I want a computer that does what I want it to do and I don't really give a rats behind what other people think about it.

Sorry but talking about your computer as a status symbol is pretty lame. About as lame as buying a certain car to impress people.

 

[Snowy_River]

...The moment pc apps become as usuable and friendly as FCP and iLife (probably never, but you never know) I'll probably head right back. Before you get your panties in a bunch and start calling me a "sellout," I"ll tell you my reasoning. Whether you like Michael Dell or not, he's right in calling Apple the "Bang and Olufson" of the computer business. If a web browser and word processing work on a PC equally well, what's the motivation to spend at least $1k more on a mac?...

Well, first, I, personally, would never call you a sellout. Computers are just tools, after all. But, even though there are many of the apps that I use that are either 100% cross platform, and behave the same on both platforms, or have Windows equivalents that are on a par with their Mac counterparts as far as usability are concerned, I'll still choose a Mac. Why? Simple. There's more to using a computer than just the applications that you run on it. I spend my time in heck

when I work on friends and clients PCs trying to get Windows to behave itself. The ease with which I can use Mac OS (9 or X) is why I will continue to choose Macs. So, the caveat that I'd add is that once Windows achieves the same ease of use and security that Mac OS has, and the applications I want to run have the same ease of use as the Mac versions, then I'll consider switching.

However, I suspect it'll be a cold day in heck before those qualifications are met...

 

[Snowy_River]

Geesh. Good to know what you guys want in a computer. A freaking status symbol?

I want a computer that does what I want it to do and I don't really give a rats behind what other people think about it.

Sorry but talking about your computer as a status symbol is pretty lame. About as lame as buying a certain car to impress people.

While my purposes for buying a Mac are the same as yours, I do admit to liking the attention that it brings when I pull it out.

However, I must also say that not all of that attention is good. I've had more than a couple of people see that glowing apple and start to tell me exactly why Macs suck and I'm stupid to own one.

 

[Bhennies]

I actually prefer using the mac in anonymity. Look at the iPods now. Here in New York City I've heard the term "iPod as$holes" thrown around more than a couple times. The broke college student (myself) is sacrificing to use the toys of the elite, upper crust, WASP-y, and white (kind of a given)!!

That's funny that you say that about iPod a$$holes in New York, I also live in NYC, and i bought a replacement pair of headphones for my ipod that don't have that flashy white cord. So many idiot hipsters walk around and get jumped cause people know they've got an ipod. Stupid.

 

[ThomasJefferson]

Crud.
I stay away for a whole week, (Spring Break) and still no Apple updates.
Bummer.

On another note, I have found out the hard way that I am allergic to Amoxicillin and all other 'cillins. Visualize one big rash from the waist up.

What an exciting Spring Break this has been. I wonder what I can do for an encore.

 

[aswitcher]

Ooooh, another Motorola G4 update for the PowerBook - well, at Motorola's current pace of processor speed advancement, all I can say is, "Bring on the 1.34 GHz G4 17" PowerBooks!"

And that's rounding up from 1.305 GHz...

 

[Unregistered.]

I don't care what anybody says, Apple's Sucking Again(TM). This "great year" will soon be half over, and the nice competitive lead we had with the G5s is GONE. Apple pissed it away. I know they'll hype up whatever they release next, but it's going to be disappointing anyway once the Reality Distortion Field from a star-studded Stevenote wears off. Hopefully Apple remembers they are a computer company soon, because they're looking more like a gadget company who also makes computers as a side business. Apple's never been so close to losing me as a customer. They've already lost other people I know, even a hardcore graphic designer, one of the guys who converted me! I've completely given up promoting Apple to my friends -- it's embarrassing to pull out my laptop and watch them pull out something better from the PC side and proceed to KICK MY APPLE'S ASS. Even WindowsXP is pretty good now... I hate to admit it. And when they ask me what Apple's been up to I change the subject.

The upside of all this is that there are so many people pissed off and giving up on Apple that they'll definitely release something good soon. Sales are hopefully already drying up -- that's the only thing that makes Apple release new computers. If people keep buying the current PowerBooks at the current speeds, why would Apple bother upgrading them? They wouldn't. They're basically printing money. There's no R&D costs and they are selling last year's discount components at a premium price. They'll just keep making more and more 1.25Ghz's until we - the consumer - demand better gear. Then Apple will have to catch up with the Wintel world or go under. If sales of the old iMacs at 266Mhz had never dried up and Apple was still selling a million a week we'd still be stuck at 266Mhz. Because Apple could meet their sales and profit goals without doing any work at all. They have to serve the shareholder's interests above the customer's interests by law. They have to do whatever they can to maximize profits. So if people are still buying the old stuff, they'll keep selling it until the market dries up and FORCES them to innovate. Why do you think they are known for innovation and Microsoft isn't? Marketshare. Since Apple has such a small marketshare, they HAVE to innovate to stay alive. Microsoft can sit on their butt and monopolize things. Apple can't. Apple has to hustle. But they tend to get lazy when they get arrogant and think they're unbeatable.... hmmm... like the iPods and the iTMS, perhaps? Theoretically, if they make enough money off iPods, their shareholders (mostly large banks and mutual and pension funds) will DEMAND they drop their less profitable lines to focus on what makes them the most money.

The only way to get increases is to vote with your wallet, and walk if they don't deliver. But Apple knows we won't do that, so they can abuse us however they want. They know we won't leave. We're like battered wives who keep coming back to their husbands over and over again.

This is desperation talking, btw.

 

[seanessey]

still years ahead

I think Apple is still YEARS ahead of MS Windows, as well as Linux, in terms of overall user experience, which includes UI, and overall reliability.
I could really care less if the latest Athlon chip outguns the current G5, I'd never go back to the Windows experience. I have a computer, and an OS which fulfill my needs very well.

I am keen for updates, too, but I can see myself holding out for a G5 PB 12".

And if I have to continue using my humble G3 iBook 12" till 2005, I'm OK with that. I don't know if I'd feel the same way if I was using WinXP machines...

I do realize that there are users in the life sciences and in the movie business who REALLY do need faster CPUs, but things are steadily improving...

Hopefully Apple is doing more QC on these forthcoming updates, to redeem it's tarnished reputation of late...

 

[Les Kern]

My 150 laptops were delivered yeasterday, so the rev can officially begin.

 

[ccuilla]

You must be a troll, but I'll bite, because I'm bored...

This "great year" will soon be half over

Will it? Really? Hmmmm...it is April 8th! It is just over THREE months into the year. By my math that doesn't translate into "soon be half over."

and the nice competitive lead we had with the G5s is GONE. Apple pissed it away.

Have they? Really? What other product can you buy that is significantly better than the PM G5 (in the same price range)?

it's embarrassing to pull out my laptop and watch them pull out something better from the PC side and proceed to KICK MY APPLE'S ASS.

It is? Really? Which Apple laptop do you own? Which are your friends pulling out?

Even WindowsXP is pretty good now... I hate to admit it. And when they ask me what Apple's been up to I change the subject.

Now you lost pretty much all credibility. Now, Admittedly, XP has come along way for MS...but OS X is the clear winner by most people that know both.

The upside of all this is that there are so many people pissed off and giving up on Apple that they'll definitely release something good soon.

Yes, that is exactly how Apple decides to release products. It has nothing to do with engineering cycles, supplier management, inventory management, marketing and sales plans and schedules. They just wait until everyone is really pissed off.

If people keep buying the current PowerBooks at the current speeds, why would Apple bother upgrading them? They wouldn't. They're basically printing money. There's no R&D costs and they are selling last year's discount components at a premium price.

Exactly. That's what businesses do. They try to make a profit. And if they are selling the current product...all of it...they are, apparently, selling to a willing market.

The only way to get increases is to vote with your wallet, and walk if they don't deliver.

Yes, and people that are buying right now are doing just that. The people that aren't are also.

But Apple knows we won't do that, so they can abuse us however they want.

Apple is abusing you? That's rich. The best one I've heard yet.

 

[patriotn11]

To Sir Advocate,

I thank you for your help, you have just about pushed me through the threashold of my first Apple purchuse,

hail to the Advocate......................

patriont11

 

[Phinius]

Motorola's G4 track record over the past 4 years

I think that most Mac users are dubious about Moto's continuing advancement of the G4 because they really don't have a great track record of advancing the G4. It's all good that they say they're going to do something, but actions speak louder than words, and at this point we've seen a bit too much inaction from Moto to trust their words...

Let's look at Motorola's track record for advancing the G4 over the past 4 years by using the dates when Apple introduced it into a product.

Feb. 16th 2000-500 MHz with a off chip level 2 cache and 100 MHz bus
Jan. 9th 2001-733 MHz, on chip level 2 cache, 1 MB level 3 cache, 133 MHz bus
July 18th 2001-867 MHz, 2 MB level 3 cache
Jan. 28th 2002-1 GHz and SOI
Aug. 13th 2002-1.25 GHz by adding low k-dielectric to silicon wafer
Jan. 28th 2003-1.42 GHz by boosting voltage
Sept 16th 2003-1.33 GHz produced on smaller .13-micron chip making process

Discounting the introduction of the 1.25 and 1.42 GHz G4 chips, the G4 moved from 500 MHz to 1.33 MHz in 43 months.

Compare the G4s progress in % of MHz increase in 43 months to where the Pentium 4 would have to be to match it. The Pentium 4 started out at 1.5 GHz in November of 2000. Moving 43 months beyond that would take us to June of 2004 and the P4 would have to be at 3.9 GHz to match the % of MHz increases that the G4 had in that period of time. Intel has stated the Pentium 4 will reach 4 GHz in the fourth quarter. Compare that to Motorola's statement that the G4 will double in MHz about every 18 months and that means the G4 will reach 2 GHz in about July or August of this year. That quite frankly is not slow progression compared to Intel's advancing the P4.

The G4 has much more potential for use in a portable notebook computer than IBM's 970 chip. Moving the G4 to a smaller process and boosting it to 2 GHz will probably only produce an average of about 16 watts of power use. Compare that to IBM's stated 25 watts of power use for the 970 at 2 GHz. Both chips running at the same MHz, I would bet on this improved G4 beating the performance of the 970 soundly.

 

[liketom]

well i'm a switcher and i love my apple ,but i have tasted the low end apple now (iBook ) and am keen to see what they pull out of the hat next . I have been ready to buy a new mac for the past 2 months but silly me i keep reading all the hype and rumours ,and with stevey boy at SF macworld saying this year was going to be the best every ?? i think he said that ... so i have put the credit card on the back burner and resisted to urge to click process order on the apple store many many times since.

so please let the wait be over and release some new kit

my pennys worth


tom



Have you seen my home made apple advert hehe

Apple advert right click apple logo and save that baby

 

[aswitcher]

Let's look at Motorola's track record for advancing the G4 over the past 4 years by using the dates when Apple introduced it into a product.

SNIP

The G4 has much more potential for use in a portable notebook computer than IBM's 970 chip. Moving the G4 to a smaller process and boosting it to 2 GHz will probably only produce an average of about 16 watts of power use. Compare that to IBM's stated 25 watts of power use for the 970 at 2 GHz. Both chips running at the same MHz, I would bet on this improved G4 beating the performance of the 970 soundly.

Clock speed is one thing, and I see where your going with this but what about the bus speed. Thats the current crippler and nothing seems to be being done about it.

Why should I switch to the next evolution PBG4 this year which may sun at 1.5Ghz (up from 1.25 for the 15") but still has a 167mhz bus...?

 

[Phinius]

Next process shrink will bring memory speed improvements

Clock speed is one thing, and I see where your going with this but what about the bus speed. Thats the current crippler and nothing seems to be being done about it.

The G4 will have a on-board memory controller and will have the capability for using DDR-2 memory. Again, that chip should be arriving in July or August if the doubling of frequency in 18 months plan still holds.

Why should I switch to the next evolution PBG4 this year which may sun at 1.5Ghz (up from 1.25 for the 15") but still has a 167mhz bus...?

The announced 1.5GHz G4 is simply a boost in frequency on the same .13-micron process size. Moving the G4 to a smaller .09-micron chip making process size will boost the topend frequency to at least 2 GHz. Don't believe that? Well, the last move to a smaller process size for the G4 got about a 33% improvement in frequency (1 GHz to 1.33 GHz). Take the upcoming topend 1.5 GHz of the .13-micron process size and multiply that times 1.33 and voila! You get a frequency of about 2 GHz, just as Motorola is predicting.

Also... with the G4 moving to a on-board memory controller there is much less need for the use of a L3 cache.

The G4 is also going to come out as a two processor chip. That was approved last year by Motorola. Which means running at 2 GHz, with two processors, the chip should perform very well and use only about 35 watts average.

Motorola had plans of improving the G4 chip architecture to enable speeds of 3 GHz+. That would probably entail moving it from 7 pipeline stages to perhaps 10. Similar to what Motorola did by moving the G4 from 4 pipeline stages to 7. The power use would still remain very low, with a much higher performance.

 

[aswitcher]

The G4 will have a on-board memory controller and will have the capability for using DDR-2 memory. Again, that chip should be arriving in July or August if the doubling of frequency in 18 months plan still holds.

Well that timing makes me think I jump to G5PB is more likely than PBs getting a new G4 after WWDC. Sure a slight bump might appear at WWDC but I think the G5PB is well and truely the real deal for the next PB...

The announced 1.5GHz G4 is simply a boost in frequency on the same .13-micron process size. Moving the G4 to a smaller .09-micron chip making process size will boost the topend frequency to at least 2 GHz. Don't believe that? Well, the last move to a smaller process size for the G4 got about a 33% improvement in frequency (1 GHz to 1.33 GHz). Take the upcoming topend 1.5 GHz of the .13-micron process size and multiply that times 1.33 and voila! You get a frequency of about 2 GHz, just as Motorola is predicting.

Sorry, how does this really address the bus bottleneck issue? (I'm not an engineer...)

 

[Phinius]

I'd expect a G5 PowerBook to arrive very soon

Well that timing makes me think I jump to G5PB is more likely than PBs getting a new G4 after WWDC. Sure a slight bump might appear at WWDC but I think the G5PB is well and truely the real deal for the next PB...

The 970 was moved to a smaller process size and yet the L2 cache size was not increased. That points towards IBM wanting to shrink the die size considerably to perhaps reduce the costs of manufacturing. But it could also have been done to reduce the power use of the chip in order for it to be used in a notebook computer. I have a feeling that Apple was more interested in getting the frequency boost, and forego the added 10-15% speed from doubling the cache size, in order to get the G5 into the PowerBooks.

Sorry, how does this really address the bus bottleneck issue? (I'm not an engineer...)

Having a onboard memory controller reduces the latency to and from memory by having direct communication with the memory, instead of going through the extra step of a Northbridge on the chipset. That's an advantage the Opteron currently has over the Pentium 4.

Currently the G4 bus can only fed the processor at a topend speed of 167 MHz, which is half the speed that 333 MHz DDR memory can deliver. DDR-2 memory should be coming out at 533 MHz in the next few months.

The upcoming G4 will also use RapidIO, which is a chip connection feature that is similar to AMD's HyperTransport used in the Opteron.

All-in-all the G4 should be getting a big boost in performance in the next few months.

 

[aswitcher]

SNIP

Currently the G4 bus can only fed the processor at a topend speed of 167 MHz, which is half the speed that 333 MHz DDR memory can deliver. DDR-2 memory should be coming out at 533 MHz in the next few months.

The upcoming G4 will also use RapidIO, which is a chip connection feature that is similar to AMD's HyperTransport used in the Opteron.

All-in-all the G4 should be getting a big boost in performance in the next few months.

So the bus will be used more efficiently? Will it be faster in raw MHz?

But July/August, I still think that even if a new PB G4 come sout it will be by WWDC and the next one after that will have to be a G5PB, even if its next year...

I can see this chip making the iBooks...

 

[powerofthekiwi]

So in conclusion, you're not hot sh*t because of you have a mac and it should not be representative of what you've got in your wallet, but instead what's up in your head.

Amen to that

 

[Phinius]

Upcoming G4 chip

So the bus will be used more efficiently? Will it be faster in raw MHz?

Well the current G4 bus speed is limited to 167 MHz, but with a onboard memory controller that can be increased to the speed of the memory, such as 333 MHz, 400 MHz or the upcoming 533 MHz.

 

[aswitcher]

So the bus will be used more efficiently? Will it be faster in raw MHz?

Well the current G4 bus speed is limited to 167 MHz, but with a onboard memory controller that can be increased to the speed of the memory, such as 333 MHz, 400 MHz or the upcoming 533 MHz.

But doesn't the bus sit between the processor and the memory? So won't it still be a signficant bottleneck?

 

[Phinius]

Bottlenecks

But doesn't the bus sit between the processor and the memory? So won't it still be a signficant bottleneck?

The only so called 'bottleneck', with a onboard memory controller, would be the limit of the speed of the memory. By using dual-channel memory, such as the G5, the potential speed of the memory fed to the processor can be doubled and the latency (or reaction time) would be reduced by having a onboard controller. So, instead of say a 400 MHz from a single memory channel, it would be 800 MHz using two 400 MHz channels.

 

[aswitcher]

The only so called 'bottleneck', with a onboard memory controller, would be the limit of the speed of the memory. By using dual-channel memory, such as the G5, the potential speed of the memory fed to the processor can be doubled and the latency (or reaction time) would be reduced by having a onboard controller. So, instead of say a 400 MHz from a single memory channel, it would be 800 MHz using two 400 MHz channels.

Ok, so what does this mean for the new G4? It only has single 167MHz memory channel right??? Sorry, I am being a bit thick...