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Apple Posts $546 Million Profit
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Project said:
Is there anything really innovative there? I don't think so. Yes, MacPro is an example of beautiful engineering, but there's not much innovation in there.
Apple was first to use magnetic power-plug in a computer, but the idea of using magnets is definitely not new. Such power-plugs have been used in deep fat fryers for a long time already
That's not an innovation, they simply took an existing model and made it a bit bigger. Or do you think that increasing the size of a computer monitor is an "innovation" no-one could come up with? That is a similar "innovation" when Intel releases a 2GHz CPU, and a bit later they introduce a 2.2GHz model. "Whoa, a CPU that is slightly faster then the previous model! I never could have imagined this!"
Quite a few laptops ship with media-software and webcams. Dunno bout remotes though.
Is that what can be considered an "innovation" these days? Apple has two finger clicking for the sole reason that they do not have a second mouse-button. PC-laptops have no need for that feature, since they all have 2 or more buttons right from the start.
BRLawyer said:
Last time I checked, Apple is still way behind Dell and HP. So I wouldn't label them as "dead" just yet.
Dell is losing out in all directions, but HP? They just became the #1 worldwide PC manufacturer again after increasing sales 6%. Dell meanwhile lost 6% last quarter.BRLawyer said:
I know a loss of 6% and a gain of 6% aren't the same numbers unless you start at a common baseline, but it doesn't take a genius to work out where most of Dell's lost sales went.
alexf said:Yes, thank you. At least someone else out there is emotionally distanced enough from the iPod and the Apple entertainment sector to be a bit objective.
Innovation: just what happened to Apple's innovative spirit when it comes to computers? The latest Mac Pro was fitted into the existing (and way oversized) G5 case. The MacBook was disappointing in that - proportionally - Apple did not shrink it at all or make it lighter than its predecessor (a design which had been in existence for about four years). There are more things, but I really don't want to sound like a troll here...
Apple needs to come out with new computer models that are unlike anything else out there. What about a tiny, thin ultraportable? What about a smaller tower, so those of us that want a pro computer don't have to invest in an oversized monster (which is larger than any PCs in the market that I am aware of). Aren't computers supposed to get SMALLER as the technology advances? Why is Apple obsessed with making the iPod smaller and smaller, but does not care as much about its laptops and desktops?
The answer: profit, or course. The iPod is Apple's cash cow. And this, my friends, is what I mean when I say that Apple needs to be partitioning off a little of its innovative energy that it is putting into its entertainment sector and bring it back to the computer line.
Understood now?
OK, now fire away
Apple surely does it's homework, otherwise they wouldn't be as successful as they are currently. Perhaps their market research has shown them that there's no "real" market for an ultra-portable, pda, prosumer tower, or the other things that you and a few other have requested? the MP3 player market was a different animal, since the market was there already, albeit heavily segmented.
Insisting over and over again that the iPod is Apple's cash cow when the facts state differently doesn't make sense. It's clearly a large part of Apple business, but it's CORE business is still computers. The numbers clearly show that.
KREX725 said:What about all of those profits from the XBox 360????? Don't those things just consist of about $8.00 worth of plastic?????
umm, actually it's a well known fact that (a) consoles are always sold at a loss to entice customers, and (b) microsoft loses over $100 on each console sold.
they make up for this on the rather large profits made on games and licensing games for the platform...
MacQuest said:
Not very likely that a phone product would use a version of Mac OS X, however slimmed down. Mac OS X does not have the real-time capabilities that are required for a phone to handle call processing. Symbian OS, Windows Smartphone OS (based on WinCE) and Linux do have real-time extensions.
Evangelion said:
Remotes are pretty common too, though it's usually an extra option unless the media version of XP is installed. I can remember looking at a Sony laptop geared towards being a media center with a remote back when the centrino platform first came out and skipping that option when I bought a Dell at the same time. The last sound card I bought also came with one. You're right, nothing innovative there.
I think Apple is starting to slide in this department, though you certainly can't argue with the results in terms of profit. Products are still nice (as I type this on a MBP and dream about the rumored upcoming 8 core MP) but nothing that I look at and think "Wow nobody else is doing this!". I think the last time I thought that was when they released the Airport Express. I'm looking forward to seeing what they will do with a media center box, maybe they will knock my socks off again some day.
I think the reason...
Apple didn't update the form factors was to ease people into Intel. Apple had to convince upgraders that they were still using a Mac, and that the inside was the only thing that changed (for the better). Now that Gen 1 Intel is complete Apple can update the form factors as they have proved Macs will always be Macs.
Apple didn't update the form factors was to ease people into Intel. Apple had to convince upgraders that they were still using a Mac, and that the inside was the only thing that changed (for the better). Now that Gen 1 Intel is complete Apple can update the form factors as they have proved Macs will always be Macs.
And even with all the switchers...
Apple has got some MAJOR work to do. I know plenty of people who will only buy PCs (AND SPECIFICALLY NOT BUY MACS, OR EVEN, APPLE PRODUCTS) because they are unaware of what the LATEST Macs can do. The pre-OSX era hurt Apple's reputation. People still believe Macs are incompatible with everything; Internet sites, Word, etc. Some people thinks Macs crash MORE than PCs. People associate Macs with being slow and using out-of-date tech (I don't recall Intel in the "Get A Mac" ads, even though it sure would help considering that everyone and there dog trusts Intel because Intel Inside has been plastered on every computer they've seen). And of course, people hate the ONE-BUTTON MOUSE (especially if they associate Apple mice with the hockey puck mouse), because Apple has not advertised Mighty Mouse, universal USB mouse compatibility, contextual menu support, etc. Seems minor, but quite a number of people are held back by one or more of these things. Plus, as far as the mouse goes, it should be two-click enabled by default! Macs are far more desirable, powerful, capable, and compatible than they have ever been before (and they weren't always these things before). Apple needs to show it. In addition, they definitely need a headless tower, and more professional looking systems. The BlackBook and Pro systems are wonderful: sleek, stylish, and professional, but try bringing a white MacBook or iMac, Apple's only offerings at those price points) into a corporate office meeting... Finally they need more advertising to not only the people mentioned above, but to people who don't use the computer that much and think buying a computer is the same all around.
P.S. I think Boot Camp should be emphasized much more, and we all know once someone is on board Mac OS X does the rest o' the work.
Apple has got some MAJOR work to do. I know plenty of people who will only buy PCs (AND SPECIFICALLY NOT BUY MACS, OR EVEN, APPLE PRODUCTS) because they are unaware of what the LATEST Macs can do. The pre-OSX era hurt Apple's reputation. People still believe Macs are incompatible with everything; Internet sites, Word, etc. Some people thinks Macs crash MORE than PCs. People associate Macs with being slow and using out-of-date tech (I don't recall Intel in the "Get A Mac" ads, even though it sure would help considering that everyone and there dog trusts Intel because Intel Inside has been plastered on every computer they've seen). And of course, people hate the ONE-BUTTON MOUSE (especially if they associate Apple mice with the hockey puck mouse), because Apple has not advertised Mighty Mouse, universal USB mouse compatibility, contextual menu support, etc. Seems minor, but quite a number of people are held back by one or more of these things. Plus, as far as the mouse goes, it should be two-click enabled by default! Macs are far more desirable, powerful, capable, and compatible than they have ever been before (and they weren't always these things before). Apple needs to show it. In addition, they definitely need a headless tower, and more professional looking systems. The BlackBook and Pro systems are wonderful: sleek, stylish, and professional, but try bringing a white MacBook or iMac, Apple's only offerings at those price points) into a corporate office meeting... Finally they need more advertising to not only the people mentioned above, but to people who don't use the computer that much and think buying a computer is the same all around.
P.S. I think Boot Camp should be emphasized much more, and we all know once someone is on board Mac OS X does the rest o' the work.
Evangelion said:
So what are you expecting? The computer industry hasn't been truly innovative since the first ICs were produced. I suppose you could claim the invention of the mouse was relatively innovative, but certainly not the addition of the keyboard - those had been used in typewriters for years! For the rest of it, all it is is binary mathematics - with short and long term storage - this was all stuff mathematicians had a handle on for millenia. Nothing innovative there right? The internet? Not really innovative, people had been connecting PCs together with serial and parallel cables for years before that. The internet did it better, but so what? To be truly innovative, you must come up with something that no one else has ever done, right?
In case you hadn't noticed, pretty much everything in the computer industry had been done before, or can be seen as an adaption of something else. So by your definition, there are no new ideas and therefore no innovation anywhere. Which leads me to ask, what innovative things are you looking for, that you feel you can criticize Apple for not being innovative enough?
Ummm....theBB said:
Front Row: A little list of Music and Movies a la Windows Media Center... not new
Boot Camp: Dual booting.... thats been around for decades...
Built-in-iSight: Ok just because it has a fancy name doesnt mean its any different... its known as a webcam. Theyve been around almost a decade.... just b/c Apple was one of the first (not the first) to put it in doesn't mean they're special or that it counts as innovations
Mag-safe: Youve got 1!
Mighty Mouse: behold the two-button mouse that doesnt work. You're right that is innovative... that a company would make such a lousy product whose main functions doesnt work.
Bang for the buck: Thats not innovation, thats economics. Apple's not the first one to decrease the price of a product.
I would all count these as advances not innovation. While I do appreciate them and believe Apple is doing well; don't call them what they ain't: Innovation. Call it as it is: Improvements.
Its hard to ask for much while these guys are finishing a whole new OS. Trying to Beta-Test it. While trying to keep up with all the new Intel chips and dealing with the new techonology pipeline. They've delivered huge improvements, may not be innovation; but it certainly is better. And I rather have that than nothing.
dynamicv said:
Since when did HP become the number 1? I've not heard anything, do you have an article or something that I could possibly read?
Project said:
Again:
-Intel Chips are not innovation. Its change of suppliers.
-Magsafe is an actual innovation.
-24" monitors have been around for like 10 yrs.... slappig into an iMac isnt innovation its either ballsy managing or perfect timing
-A webcam.... and a software to list all ur media.... nice not new. ITS A WEBCAM PEOPLE. THATS ALL. IT DOESNT SAVE CHILDREN.
-I thought Sony had a laptop that did this already? Can't confirm.
dynamicv said:
HP is doing very well with its Pavilion multimedia laptops. Both of my roommates have one. HP is aiming for the consumer and a big retail presence in stores like Best Buy so they are actually more direct competitors to Apple now than Dell is.
Dell's problem is their business model has always been based on 2 things: 1) customization, and 2) low price. Everyone does customization now, and the problem is that if you are competing in price there is *always* someone that will beat you in price down the road. If you think Dell is going downhill now, wait until Taiwanese and Chinese manufacturers really start putting pressure. Since Apple's business model is based on innovation, it is actually much more likely to still be in a strong position 10 or 20 years down the road than dell is...
alexf said:
Did I not see that 58% of the revenue came from the computers? How does this make the iPod the cash cow?
The Gartner report released yesterday had Dell and HP virtually tied for first place with 17.2% market share each (HP ever so slightly higher) and the IDC one had HP 300k units (or 0.2%) ahead.iancapable said:
Dell are still #1 in the USA, but even there the gap narrowed, from Dell having a 2.2 million unit lead in the previous quarter to a 1.5 million unit lead in the quarter just ended.
HP are really leaping ahead. I expect they will take the US #1 spot back from Dell sometime next year.
oingoboingo said:
I don't think Apple will come out with a "consumer" tower for the foreseeable future. I think Apple's strategy is to make "consumer" products like the Mini which are made to look more like consumer electronic devices (e.g. look like a stereo or DVD players). A tower just does not fit that category. Apple makes the Mac Pro for professionals that will actually put in a specialized video or audio card for their *professional* work. And yes, a consumer like a gamer might want that expandability just so they can get the latest and greatest gaming video card, but Apple is *not* going to aim for that category anytime soon because: 1) it's a small fraction of the market compared to the overall consumer market, and 2) the PC owns the gaming market. And why would Apple want to go for the PC gaming market anyway? A disproportionate amount of gamers just build "white box" computers so they can optimize everything to their liking for the lowest cost, and that's *definitely* not Apple's market.
Dont Hurt Me said:Its clear Apple is missing something in the midrange desk top line. Its time for the Cube or Macintosh or headless iMac or Max Mini or something. iMac isnt for everyone and the world has billions of big beautiful displays just waiting for a midrange Mac but if Apple prices it again the same as the towers it will be another failure. Its way past time for the next Macintosh. Needs a real GPU, at least 1 expansion slot and should be priced right along with ugly iMac
This is not beyond the realm of possibility. I could see Apple modifying the Mac mini at some point to make the graphics card more accessible and upgradeable. But of course it would be a laptop graphics card and not a full desktop graphics card. Do ATI / nVidia sell something like mini-PCI graphics cards to consumers?
But anyway, althought it's a possibility I think it's a slim one, since gamers are just not Apple's focus right now...
dernhelm said:
I'm not expecting anything really. I'm just disputing the claim that re-designed MacPro is "innovative". And it seems that you are agreeing with me.
Apple HAS innovated, and I'm not claiming otherwise. I merely said that the things the original poster listed were NOT innovative. And it seems that you are agreeing with me. So what are you complaining about? Because I said something that is 100% fact?
Chef Medeski said:
It's not. Such power-connectors have been around for a long time. The thing that Apple did was to be first to put one in a laptop. But the actual technology is not new.
simX said:*sigh* How many times do we have to refute your assertions with facts before you stop repeating them?
To wit, the iPod is not Apple's "cash cow". By definition, if there is something that gains more revenue/profit than the iPod, then the iPod cannot be the cash cow. 58% of Apple's revenue still came from sales of Macs. Gross margins for both Macs and iPods has always been similar (hovering a bit below 30%), so the Mac also generates the majority of the profit for Apple.
As for Apple's innovative spirit lacking when it comes to the Macs, let's just point out that it Apple updated the iPod in October 2005 to the 5th generation, and we JUST got the 5.5th generation last month. Apple took a year to add slightly brighter screens, better battery life (only for video), and games. The nano just gained the anodized aluminum exterior -- wow, Apple's reaching back to the past for it's innovation now! And the shuffle got slimmed down and consolidated into one product. All this doesn't sound exactly like innovation to me. (Of course, Apple doesn't really need to innovate, since they're already selling iPods by the boatload.)
In contrast, Apple brought all of its Macs over to the Intel processor. The Mac Pro was dramatically higher value, what with double-wide graphics card slot, dual optical drives, 4 internal hard drive bays, etc., etc. All Macs (except for the Mac Pro) now have Front Row and a remote, which is a great feature. Built-in iSights have also migrated across the entire product line. The MacBook and MacBook Pro now have MagSafe -- a great innovation. Boot Camp is now supported on all new Macs. The Xserve has new features like lights-out management, redundant power supplies, etc. And we've seen some great things coming for Leopard, what with Time Machine and Spaces and iChat Theater and Core Animation and iCal Server, etc., etc., etc.
It seems to me that Apple is innovating more on the Macintosh side of things than they are with the iPod. What are they going to add next on the iPod -- wireless? *gasp*, so innovative!
Seriously, can we stop with this myth already? It's the same thing with all of Apple's "woes" with quality control (which was busted by the recent consumer reports articles where Apple has actually brought DOWN the number of new computers needing repair in their first year). It's something that's repeated ad nauseum by a few vocal people, when it's really not a problem at all. Same here: everybody gawks and writes about the iPod precisely because more people can afford it and more people can use it with whatever computer they have. So, obviously, you will hear more about the iPod.
Let's see if repeating myself again has any effect: the iPod is not Apple's cash cow!
Understood now?
OK, now fire away
I think the argument can go either way. While iPod (which I love btw) is less than half Apple revenue ok. But if they were to just add the iPod line today, and have the amount of revenue they are reporting from it, the financial report would be "iPod has given us nearly a 100% increase in revenue".
So get some hershey's syrup, cause we got milk.
Regardless of why they made the money, AAPL is up $5 right now. Not too shabby, almost to $80 a share