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Apple posts Java update for Panther, improving functionality...
- Thread starter MacBytes
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Re: Problems with Java Manual fix!!!
You don't have to do anything. 10.3.1 included the security upgrade within it so the file you trashed was the old security update. You did not trash the one included in the 10.3.1 update package.
You don't have to do anything. 10.3.1 included the security upgrade within it so the file you trashed was the old security update. You did not trash the one included in the 10.3.1 update package.
Re: Problems with Java Manual fix!!!
MacBandit:
Perhaps I did not make it clear...
-I had already updated to 10.3.1
- Then following the technote instructions, I installed the Java from the original 10.3 CD. According to the technote, "if you have installed the "Security Update 2003-10-28" before following these steps you will additionally need to reinstall that update, as the Java package on the CD precedes it".
- So it sounds like installing the Java from the 10.3 CD overwrites the Panther Java update and the Security Update 2003-10-28
Bear in mind that the technote preceded both the 10.3.1 update and today's Panther Java Update...
So I am still unsure on how to proceed.
Eric
MacBandit:
Perhaps I did not make it clear...
-I had already updated to 10.3.1
- Then following the technote instructions, I installed the Java from the original 10.3 CD. According to the technote, "if you have installed the "Security Update 2003-10-28" before following these steps you will additionally need to reinstall that update, as the Java package on the CD precedes it".
- So it sounds like installing the Java from the 10.3 CD overwrites the Panther Java update and the Security Update 2003-10-28
Bear in mind that the technote preceded both the 10.3.1 update and today's Panther Java Update...
So I am still unsure on how to proceed.
Eric
I didn't see it in my software update, either, but I installed it from the Apple website anyway. Strangely enough, after it installed, I noticed that I gained HD space. I wonder what was up with that?
Bad download caused faulty install
Had installation problem earlier. Discovered that I had a bad download, yet the installer tied and failed. Trashed the original and downloaded it again and all is well. Thank goodness for a 1.5MB broadband else this could be frustrating at 40MB a pop.
Had installation problem earlier. Discovered that I had a bad download, yet the installer tied and failed. Trashed the original and downloaded it again and all is well. Thank goodness for a 1.5MB broadband else this could be frustrating at 40MB a pop.
ATTENTION!!
If the Java update does not show up in your software update panel do not automatically download and install the update. You need to check your Java install to see if you actually need it first.
Follow the steps at this page.
http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2099.html
It will tell you how to check you're Java version and tell if it was installed correctly. Simply manually downloading Java and installing it will not fix the problem. There are other steps you need to peform first outlined in the Apple technote linked to above.
If the Java update does not show up in your software update panel do not automatically download and install the update. You need to check your Java install to see if you actually need it first.
Follow the steps at this page.
http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2099.html
It will tell you how to check you're Java version and tell if it was installed correctly. Simply manually downloading Java and installing it will not fix the problem. There are other steps you need to peform first outlined in the Apple technote linked to above.
Re: Re: Problems with Java Manual fix!!!
No, I understood your situation. I don't not believe that you have anything to do. The 10.3.1 install should supersede the security update and what you deleted should not have been important at all since you installed the 10.3.1 update.
No, I understood your situation. I don't not believe that you have anything to do. The 10.3.1 install should supersede the security update and what you deleted should not have been important at all since you installed the 10.3.1 update.
Re: Re: Re: Problems with Java Manual fix!!!
--Installed 10.3. Includes problematic Java installation with security hole.
--Installed security update. Patches hole.
--Installed 10.3.1 (including security update).
--Installed yesterday's Java update. Java still doesn't work.
--Overwrote Java with original 10.3 Java--which doesn't include the security update.
So he's got an unpatched version of Java. He can't install just the security update, because it thinks that 10.3.1 obviates the need for it. And he can't install 10.3.1 again without reinstalling all of Panther.
So I guess I would try to run the recent Java update again. Since he's basically overwritten it with the original 10.3 Java (I think), it might let him do that.
FWIW
WM
I disagree. Here's how I understand what he did:
--Installed 10.3. Includes problematic Java installation with security hole.
--Installed security update. Patches hole.
--Installed 10.3.1 (including security update).
--Installed yesterday's Java update. Java still doesn't work.
--Overwrote Java with original 10.3 Java--which doesn't include the security update.
So he's got an unpatched version of Java. He can't install just the security update, because it thinks that 10.3.1 obviates the need for it. And he can't install 10.3.1 again without reinstalling all of Panther.
So I guess I would try to run the recent Java update again. Since he's basically overwritten it with the original 10.3 Java (I think), it might let him do that.
FWIW
WM
I disagree here too. I think you can install this recent Java update on any 10.3 machine, regardless of whether it's having problems or, if it does, whether you've fixed them.
Otherwise Apple would specify that you should only install it if you've had problems and you've followed the procedures in the technote. But they don't. They say it's strongly recommended for all users. I'll be installing it as soon as I can hog the modem for a few hours (fortunately our connections are very reliable)--I don't have the problem detailed in the technote, but a Java app that I'd really like to work (although it's not critical) broke in 10.3.
Please note that, as eogold said, that technote predates both 10.3.1 and the Java update, so it may be obsolete now.
WM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Problems with Java Manual fix!!!
The current Java update does not over right the security update. You must delete the security update per Apple's instructions. Apple's instructions are for 10.3 in which the security patch was patch. In 10.3.1 the security patch is written in. As far as I know the security update actually doesn't have anything to do with Java it's just that it's necessary to remove it in order to do the Java update on the original version of 10.3.
The current Java update does not over right the security update. You must delete the security update per Apple's instructions. Apple's instructions are for 10.3 in which the security patch was patch. In 10.3.1 the security patch is written in. As far as I know the security update actually doesn't have anything to do with Java it's just that it's necessary to remove it in order to do the Java update on the original version of 10.3.
The Java update that is in question is the same one that was released a while back for Jaguar. The reason Apple is reposting it is due to the failed Java install on systems updated from 10.2 to 10.3. If you did not run the update but did a clean install and you run the terminal version to check your Java version it will show that you are completely up to date and it is unnecessary to run the Java updater. If your check your Java version and it shows an incorrect address then yes, you need to use the Java update but not until you do what is instructed in Apples knowledge base article. Thus do not automatically install the Java update because it will not fix anything until you do the steps Apple says to.
I'm not so sure. It seems to me like Apple would have said something like "this update fixes installation problems experienced with 10.3" if this were the case, but instead they refer to "functionality enhancements" or something like that. Plus it updates both 1.3.1 and 1.4.1. That sounds like a lot more than a fix for an installation issue to me.
Where are you getting this information? Not from Apple, I assume, since they haven't updated any KB or developer documentation to reflect this update (AFAICT).
WM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Problems with Java Manual fix!!!
WM
Right.
I don't believe that's right. First, Apple's instructions don't tell you to remove the patch itself--rather you're deleting the receipt from the installation of the patch. Secondly, IIRC the 10/28 (?) patch was for a vulnerability in QuickTime for Java. Thirdly, that article has nothing to do with performing the Java update, because it was released before the Java update was! It only refers to re-installing the original 10.3 Java to remedy a messed-up original installation. After which you're supposed to install the 10/28 security update again.
WM
Still can't play dominoes
Even though it used to wrk in Jaguar, I still can't play dominoes in Panther after 10.3.1 and Java 1.4.1 updates.
Yahoo>Games>Dominoes
Broken, I get a crash every time.
Even though it used to wrk in Jaguar, I still can't play dominoes in Panther after 10.3.1 and Java 1.4.1 updates.
Yahoo>Games>Dominoes
Broken, I get a crash every time.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Problems with Java Manual fix!!!
The current Java update does not over right the security update. You must delete the security update per Apple's instructions. Apple's instructions are for 10.3 in which the security patch was patch. In 10.3.1 the security patch is written in. As far as I know the security update actually doesn't have anything to do with Java it's just that it's necessary to remove it in order to do the Java update on the original version of 10.3.
WM. had it correct. Here's what Apple's technote says:
"If you have installed the "Security Update 2003-10-28" before following these steps you will additionally need to reinstall that update, as the Java package on the CD precedes it".
To me this implies that re-installing the Java from the 10.3 install disk somehow "uninstalls" the 2003-10-28 Security patch. Why else would you be directed to delete the *receipt" for the security patch? This simply allows Software Update to think that you "need" the 2003-10-28 Security patch, so you can download it again. However, in my case, since I had updated to 10.3.1, Software Update didn't "see" the patch and I couldn't manually re-install it.
If the 10.3.1 update includes the 2003-10-28 Security patch then I guess I'm OK.
Also, if re-installing Java from the 10.3 disk gives me the same result as installing as downloading the Java Panther update, then again, I guess I'm also OK...
Very confusing...
Eric
The current Java update does not over right the security update. You must delete the security update per Apple's instructions. Apple's instructions are for 10.3 in which the security patch was patch. In 10.3.1 the security patch is written in. As far as I know the security update actually doesn't have anything to do with Java it's just that it's necessary to remove it in order to do the Java update on the original version of 10.3.
WM. had it correct. Here's what Apple's technote says:
"If you have installed the "Security Update 2003-10-28" before following these steps you will additionally need to reinstall that update, as the Java package on the CD precedes it".
To me this implies that re-installing the Java from the 10.3 install disk somehow "uninstalls" the 2003-10-28 Security patch. Why else would you be directed to delete the *receipt" for the security patch? This simply allows Software Update to think that you "need" the 2003-10-28 Security patch, so you can download it again. However, in my case, since I had updated to 10.3.1, Software Update didn't "see" the patch and I couldn't manually re-install it.
If the 10.3.1 update includes the 2003-10-28 Security patch then I guess I'm OK.
Also, if re-installing Java from the 10.3 disk gives me the same result as installing as downloading the Java Panther update, then again, I guess I'm also OK...
Very confusing...
Eric
Re: Still can't play dominoes
I tried, Yahoo Dominoes loads just fine for me. I even made a table and all as if I were going to play a game and everything was fine.
Originally posted by greenstork
Even though it used to wrk in Jaguar, I still can't play dominoes in Panther after 10.3.1 and Java 1.4.1 updates.
Yahoo>Games>Dominoes
Broken, I get a crash every time.
I tried, Yahoo Dominoes loads just fine for me. I even made a table and all as if I were going to play a game and everything was fine.
Re: Re: Still can't play dominoes
Ah-ha. It works in Safari, excllent. I always used to play in Firebird since the fonts looked so crappy in Safari, but herein lies the problem. Perhaps a Firebird upgrade is in order.
Ah-ha. It works in Safari, excllent. I always used to play in Firebird since the fonts looked so crappy in Safari, but herein lies the problem. Perhaps a Firebird upgrade is in order.
This is starting to get confusing.
I wonder if, at this point, it wouldn't make more sense to just reinstall 10.3, 10.3.1, and the Java update (in that order and without installing any security updates, because they're included in 10.3.1 [but you overwrote the 10/28 one when you reinstalled the original 10.3 Java as per the Apple technote]).Otherwise, maybe you could trash the receipt for 10.3.1 and then try to install the 10/28 security update (but I don't think you should try to install 10.3.1 again).
HTH/FWIW
WM
edit: So, to summarize, IMHO your options are:
--Reinstall 10.3, 10.3.1, and Java update (major PITA, most likely)
--Delete 10.3.1 receipt and see if the 10/28 security update will then install
edit #2 Have you installed the Java update again? If so, I don't think you need to worry about the security update.
I'm not sure if I quite explained my predicament correctly before. Let me do it one more time and see if anyone can help me out (bear in mind, this is my first mac, so I'm new to Apple hardware):
I updated 10.2 to 10.3 and installed the 10-28 security update. I then installed 10.3.1 and Java 1.4.1. When I run terminal, I get this reading...
java version "1.3.1"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.3.1-root_1.3.1_030602-20:14)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.3.1_03-69, mixed mode)
This isn't in the Apple tech notes, so I'm not sure what to do. My software update says that Java 1.4.1 was successfully installed, but Terminal doesn't seem to be reading it. I am also unable to use any Java programs or visit Java sites. Am I still able to follow the Apple Tech Notes in my situation? Or should I just wait for Apple to put out an end-user solution? Like I said, I'm new to Apple hardware, and I'm afraid I'm going to mess up my system if I mess around too much. Thanks.
I updated 10.2 to 10.3 and installed the 10-28 security update. I then installed 10.3.1 and Java 1.4.1. When I run terminal, I get this reading...
java version "1.3.1"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.3.1-root_1.3.1_030602-20:14)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.3.1_03-69, mixed mode)
This isn't in the Apple tech notes, so I'm not sure what to do. My software update says that Java 1.4.1 was successfully installed, but Terminal doesn't seem to be reading it. I am also unable to use any Java programs or visit Java sites. Am I still able to follow the Apple Tech Notes in my situation? Or should I just wait for Apple to put out an end-user solution? Like I said, I'm new to Apple hardware, and I'm afraid I'm going to mess up my system if I mess around too much. Thanks.
If you have an AppleCare agreement, I would call them first to ask.
I would feel comfortable following the tech note's instructions to re-install the Java.pkg from the Panther installation CD, etc. Obviously, you don't have those experiences to give you any comfort but I wonder if there are any others in your situation.
You might check http://www.macintouch.com to see if anyone has reported your specific situation. http://www.macfixit.com is also a good resource.
the importance of clear, concise documentation
As someone who wrote technical manuals for almost 20 years, I feel obliged to point out that the ambiguity of Apple's tech note underscores the value clear and concise documenation.
It saddens me that downsizing and cutbacks have pushed the responsibility for such writing down to the technical staff, which for some of whom English is not their first language.
Please don't missunderstand me, many technical people write very well. However this technote serves as an example that even apparently simple information is subject to missinterpretation and it's writing should not be rushed.
I for one was very pleased with the performance improvements of Panther until I discovered that iCal stopped syncing with my Palm Tungsten T. Any advice anyone can offer with respect to that would be most appreciated.
MUC
As someone who wrote technical manuals for almost 20 years, I feel obliged to point out that the ambiguity of Apple's tech note underscores the value clear and concise documenation.
It saddens me that downsizing and cutbacks have pushed the responsibility for such writing down to the technical staff, which for some of whom English is not their first language.
Please don't missunderstand me, many technical people write very well. However this technote serves as an example that even apparently simple information is subject to missinterpretation and it's writing should not be rushed.
I for one was very pleased with the performance improvements of Panther until I discovered that iCal stopped syncing with my Palm Tungsten T. Any advice anyone can offer with respect to that would be most appreciated.
MUC
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Problems with Java Manual fix!!!
FWIW
WM
Agreed.
That's the thing, though. If you reinstalled the original 10.3 Java after you updated to 10.3.1, that wiped out the security update--whether as a separate download or as part of 10.3.1. So I think you still need to find a way to apply it.
IMHO, it doesn't give the same result. I think the new Java update provides some additional improvements (aside from the security update and possibly fixing the installation problem) that you can only get by installing it. In other words, with the original 10.3 Java, not only are you without the 10/28 security update, but you're missing out on whatever other improvements there are in this new Java update.
Indeed...
FWIW
WM