Apple Preparing for Massive Production of Devices with Sapphire Displays

[jameskatt]

Sapphire won't easily be copied

What is great about Apple's use of Sapphire is that it won't easily be copied by others.

And Apple will also get the cachet and coolness that Sapphire will give to its products. The iPhone and iWatch will be as good as jewelry and worth it. And they will be essentially scratch proof.

Sapphire is also a lot better than using Gorilla Glass. It is second only to diamonds in hardness.

And if Apple could mass produce diamond sheets, it would spend billions to go there.

Perhaps Sapphire is only the beginning. Industrial diamond sheets would be the next step up for Apple.

 

[erthquake]

So are we saying that the plan is to make iPhone screens in Mesa, Arizona and then ship them to China for attachment to displays?

I'll bet shipping to China will cost almost nothing. I've been told out here on the west coast that you can fill an entire shipping container destined for China for only about $250. All the containers emptied here have to go back (full or not) so they can carry more goods from China.

 

[jameskatt]

Sapphire for iPads and MacBooks

I would love to see even larger sheets of sapphire for use on iPads and MacBooks.

 

[ZipZap]

I personally would like to hear from everyone who said a sapphire iphone 6 was impossible and the Mesa facility was definitely for iWatch screens.

Thank you…I would as well!

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I don't think this is for the iphone. Is gorilla glass not strong enough?

(expensive) watches, however, have used saphire for decades. You're going to bump into things with a watch and so saphire makes sense here.

I'm not saying saphire iPhone displays are impossible, I just don't think they are needed.

I bet it is…that have to grow into producing displays of that size. (like the pun)

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I thought it was mostly the soft oleophobic coating that gets scratched, not the glass itself.

This is true for fine scratches.

 

[notjustjay]

I don't see too many people with scratched iPhone screens, but I see a fair number of folks who have dropped their iPhone and have cracked or shattered screens.

I'd be curious to know if sapphire screens would be more impact-resistant.

 

[Ieo]

I'll bet shipping to China will cost almost nothing. I've been told out here on the west coast that you can fill an entire shipping container destined for China for only about $250. All the containers emptied here have to go back (full or not) so they can carry more goods from China.

Yup. The first few batches will likely need to be flown to meet deadlines, but eventually apple will get ahead of production in china enough that shipping by sea will be feasible. If the plant is online this month, sapphire can be in china within a day of it leaving Arizona. If enough furnaces are online to provide roughly 100M phones worth of sapphire like the article appears to be saying (and more furnaces on the way), sapphire iPhones are looking more and more plausible.

As far as making the sapphire in the US, I'm sure they get a nice tax write off, labor isn't too bad (it doesn't take many guys to fill furnaces with raw ingredients, wait for the machine to do its thing, remove the end product, and repeat), and they get to say "made in the USA", which they've been putting effort into already.

 

[jrswizzle]

I don't think this is for the iphone. Is gorilla glass not strong enough?

(expensive) watches, however, have used saphire for decades. You're going to bump into things with a watch and so saphire makes sense here.

I'm not saying saphire iPhone displays are impossible, I just don't think they are needed.

I agree - I think the iWatch will be the first with Sapphire displays. Smaller = easier to manufacture in bulk (maybe?).

I do think we'll see them in iPhones as well - but maybe the 6S (for Sapphire).

 

[wikiverse]

I don't see too many people with scratched iPhone screens, but I see a fair number of folks who have dropped their iPhone and have cracked or shattered screens.

I'd be curious to know if sapphire screens would be more impact-resistant.

Yea they are. They can still break. You would be better off with a sapphire glass screen protector.

It would be sacrificial, so when it does chip or crack, you just peel it off and apply another.

 

[Semester]

I don't see too many people with scratched iPhone screens, but I see a fair number of folks who have dropped their iPhone and have cracked or shattered screens.

I'd be curious to know if sapphire screens would be more impact-resistant.

The company spokesman in the attached video says it's stronger but it will still shatter. If it was significantly more impact-resistant I believe the guy would have made a stronger statement about it.

If the sapphire glass doesn't make the phone a lot less prone to crack I frankly don't see this being worth the seemingly significant effort and investment. But I guess it'll work as a marketing buzz. Although playing up a device's durability is a dangerous thing.

What I can tell about this so far this doesn't seem like something I'm personally craving for. But I hope I'm wrong.

 

[icrew]

Crack/shatter resistance of sapphire?

I see many more cracked/shattered iPhone screens than I do scratched ones (and a crack is infinitely more disruptive to the proper functioning of the phone), so I'm curious: how does the crack/shatter resistance of sapphire compare to Gorilla Glass? Anyone know?

Thanks.

 

[nutmac]

>Is that all of the benefits? I barely saw any scratches ever since iPhone 3/4 came out.

What about the width and weight? Can it be just as durable while being thinner than the current panel?

While scratch and crack resistance are main benefits, there are few additional benefits, such as built-in oleophobic coating. And while you should be commanded/thankful for keeping your old iPhone in mint condition, most iPhones I have used and seen have at least minor scratches or oleophophic coating wearing out. And many with cracked screen.

In any case, both the height and weight increase are non existent, and while synthetic sapphire screen does cost more than gorilla glass, the price increase is not prohibitive (should cost Apple less than $20 per unit) and well worth support cost.

 

[Nalmond92]

Wonder what affect going Sapphire will have on glare over Gorilla Glass?

 

[jrswizzle]

While scratch and crack resistance are main benefits, there are few additional benefits, such as built-in oleophobic coating. And while you should be commanded/thankful for keeping your old iPhone in mint condition, most iPhones I have used and seen have at least minor scratches or oleophophic coating wearing out. And many with cracked screen.

In any case, both the height and weight increase are non existent, and while synthetic sapphire screen does cost more than gorilla glass, the price increase is not prohibitive (should cost Apple less than $20 per unit) and well worth support cost.

This is the part I care about most. Give me a screen that doesn't show fingerprints.....EVER. That would be awesome.

 

[Lazy]

What's the recyclability factor on sapphire?

I'm going to guess it's excellent, just like glass. However they were talking about bonding 20 micron sheets of it to a glass base (for phone use), so the real question is how does having a sapphire coating affect the recyclability of a glass screen? It might be just a contaminant at that point.

Of course an Apple watch crystal could easily be pure sapphire.

Whatever it gets used on count me in the camp that thinks it'll be cool that they did so.

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While scratch and crack resistance are main benefits, there are few additional benefits, such as built-in oleophobic coating. And while you should be commanded/thankful for keeping your old iPhone in mint condition, most iPhones I have used and seen have at least minor scratches or oleophophic coating wearing out. And many with cracked screen.

In any case, both the height and weight increase are non existent, and while synthetic sapphire screen does cost more than gorilla glass, the price increase is not prohibitive (should cost Apple less than $20 per unit) and well worth support cost.

Um, $20 would be well beyond prohibitive. Estimates for the total cost of iPhone materials were around $200 for a mid-level model. In the story about the 5s parts cost https://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/24/iphone-5s-component-costs-estimated-to-begin-at-199/, it says

"The bill of materials includes $41 for the iPhone 5s display, $32 for the RF chips, $7 for the fingerprint sensor, and $19 for the A7 chip manufactured by Samsung."

No way the display cost is going up by 50%, or the entire cost of an A7 chipped added. Even $2 additional would probably be too much.

 

[AppleWarMachine]

sapphire crystal..iWatch
just think...a Nike fuel band wrapped in sapphire crystal...
I hope the damn thing is going to be waterproof somehow

 

[nutmac]

Um, $20 would be well beyond prohibitive. Estimates for the total cost of iPhone materials were around $200 for a mid-level model.

While $20 (could be a bit more, could a bit less, depending on how Apple works things out) is substantial increase from about $3 Apple pays for gorilla glass on each iPhone, Apple can easily shuffle product mix once again.

For instance, I can easily envision Apple getting rid of 16GB on the flagship iPhone 6, allowing Apple more wiggle room to justify sapphire screen without affecting average margin as much.

 

[kdarling]

Sapphire, as the second hardest mineral after diamond,

Sapphire is NOT REPEAT NOT the "second hardest mineral after diamond".

What confuses people is that they often refer to the Mohs hardness scale, which rates hardness in relation to ten common minerals. In that list, yes, sapphire is reference mineral #9, and diamond is reference #10.

But that does not mean there's nothing in-between them.

Materials such as silicon carbide (carborundum aka the mineral moissanite), tungsten carbide, titanium carbide, boron, boron nitride, rhenium diboride, stishovite, and titanium diboride ARE HARDER THAN SAPPHIRE. That is, they are 9+ on the Mohs scale.

For that matter, there are now materials harder (10+ on the scale) than diamond .

What about the width and weight? Can it be just as durable while being thinner than the current panel?

I don't think thinner will work. As I keep pointing out, to prevent easy breakage, sapphire watch crystals are from 3-6 times as thick as what's used for Gorilla Glass phone covers. And watches are a small area.

Sapphire also weighs about 60% more than GG.

This is no doubt why we see Apple patents on joining very thin sapphire sheets to glass. That way, you get the scratch resistance of sapphire on top, and the structural strength and weight savings of the glass substrate.

 

[jayducharme]

I'm curious about what happened in Apple's relationship with Corning. For the first iPhone, Jobs famously told Corning to get its Gorilla Glass production up to speed in six months; Corning initially balked, thinking they couldn't do it. But they did, and it's since become a huge part of their business.

So why didn't Apple work with Corning on a superior version of Gorilla Glass (beyond GG 3)? Did Corning balk again? Or was Corning content to deal with other companies that weren't so picky as Apple?

I too wish that the focus would be less on scratch resistance and more on shatter-proofing the screen. I've seen far more iPhones that were cracked than seriously scratched.

 

[hscottm]

Count me as part of the group that thought that one plant's manufacturing ability of crystal clear sapphire would never be enough for a year's iPhone run. At least not during its first year of operation while the kinks are getting worked out. I thought they would start a lot more small scale before trying to meet iPhone demand.

So are we saying that the plan is to make iPhone screens in Mesa, Arizona and then ship them to China for attachment to displays? Are the Corning Gorilla Glass displays all made in the U.S. and then shipped to China already? And in the case of Gorilla Glass this would be for more than just the iPhone as it would include all the other high end smartphones.

Funny thing is, my first thought was (similar?) are they really going to make 100 million sapphire components and ship them all to China? We've heard rumblings of Foxconn or others planing US factories. I am wondering whether a plan is to move more production to US. iWatch (rumored) would be relatively lower volume than iPhone in year 1. Might be tough to move so much iPhone production here.

Anyway, that estimated volume is just mind-boggling.

Last thing, meaningless words aside, I would assume a wearable product from Apple would be called iBand not iWatch. There's no way they would want people to think of it as only a watch.

 

[4look4rd]

How does it compare to Gorilla Glass 3 though? I've had a Lumia 1020 for over 6 months, and I abuse the crap out of it. Through it in my bag, on my pocket with keys, suffered multiple falls... and the glass still feels silky smooth. There are micro cracks but they are not visible unless you really look for them under specific lighting.

Some how I doubt sapphire is better than Gorilla glass because most decent watches use sapphire and they often get scratched. If anything I wonder what is the cost difference between the two.

 

[kdarling]

So are we saying that the plan is to make iPhone screens in Mesa, Arizona and then ship them to China for attachment to displays? Are the Corning Gorilla Glass displays all made in the U.S. and then shipped to China already?

From the Corning Gorilla Glass FAQ:

"Corning manufactures Gorilla Glass in the United States, Japan, and Taiwan."

Note: I think I recall reading that the Gorilla Glass for the first iPhones was all made in Kentucky, before Corning ramped up overseas production.

 

[Popeye206]

Really makes sense for the iWatch… I know every watch I've had got scratches… so far the iPhone has been scratch free… shattering is a bigger issue. Either way… looks like good developments. I'll take quality improvements any day!

 

[kdarling]

Some how I doubt sapphire is better than Gorilla glass because most decent watches use sapphire and they often get scratched.

Not often. Usually a sapphire watch crystal is only scratched because someone scraped a diamond ring or bracelet across it.

Or the crystal was scratched on the edge of someone's faux stone countertop... as those are sometimes made of carborundum, which is harder than sapphire. Same for high-performance brake pads, for that matter.

If anything I wonder what is the cost difference between the two.

Right now a sapphire replacement screen would cost ten times as much as using Gorilla Glass. (e.g. something like $20 vs $2)

However, I haven't seen calculations for a combination of the two, with just a very thin sapphire layer on top. Such a combo should be much less than sapphire alone.

 

[ray6712]

just wondering how different the iPhone 6 chassis will be i know the want to keep the unibody as small as possible but the change to sapphire with its prohibitive cost and all it truly could be as close to edge to edge as we've seen

 

[koban4max]

this won't keep them from scratches...it will always happen.