It seems like maybe the Touareg should be the first to get the MIB1/2 or whatever rather than the other way around.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Prevented Volkswagen From Exhibiting Wireless CarPlay at CES
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Good point but wouldn't it be possible to create a spec with variable power (and associated bandwidth and/or range)? That would also be very useful, something that can scale from audio to ear buds to file transfers across your home.
I've been looking for a compatible aftermarket CarPlay stereo for my Toyota Avalon. Do you know which model?
Seems like your a Toyota hater... not only did they lead in the race to make hybrid cars popular and volume sellers, they have decided to completely revamp their plug-in Prius to be released as a 2017 model. Toyota doesn't ignore any automotive solutions and are well known for leading the pack.
After a few decades of very careful research they determined what types of technology the public will embrace, the Toyota Mirai, powered by fuel cells is one such solution. With vast reserves and a great reputation, Toyota is able to build and sell more than just one alternate fuel automobile.
https://ssl.toyota.com/mirai/?&srch...General_E|Mirai+-+Pre+Order+7.20.15|Mirai_MLP
On long trips do want wireless when your smart phone is running full tilt to mirror to the display? Sorry I would want my phone to be on power when displaying Car Play!
Nice. Want to create an open platform, then close it down. Perfectly Apple.
I should probably pay more attention to them, but they lost something I once treasured about them. I think it's partly just that other car companies stepped up, so the gap between Toyota, Honda, and the rest isn't what it once was. I've also been pretty uninspired by any Toyota's I've driven over the last decade (aside from my wife's Tundra, which for a truck, is a pretty nice truck)... but I'd say the same for Honda or some other brands I once loved. (I owned an early-80s Celica years ago... that thing was a beast! It was fun to drive, and even after a deer and t-boning a car that spun out in front of me on the freeway, it was still going.)
I'm not sure about the hydrogen thing. I guess I should read more, but how are they efficiently producing the hydrogen? And, do we need yet another type of fuel to try and build a supply chain for? I think I'm with the other person here... electric, with it's issues and inefficiencies, is where we'll be going. It also has the benefits of, if the makers really want to, being a VERY trouble-free and long-term vehicle... which I think any kind of ICE won't have. (i.e.: unless they've built in obsolescence, a Tesla should easily last 20+ years and need very little maintenance... which could be factored into the higher price.)
Not to mention Toyota have chosen what I think is the most philosophically sound solution to in car phone mirroring - the completely free and open sourced standard that any other phone manufacturer is free to also support. Funny that VW had to resort to the same standard to have a great demonstration at CES after Apple spoiled the party.
Of course in the case of Apple we all know going the open standards route is never going to happen, they will always push some priorietry little bit of garbage instead. I predict this will be no different in a few months when Vulkan is released, and Apple refuse to allow GPU manufacturers to support it in OSX (despite intel/nvidia/amd getting their windows/linux/android drivers Vulkan ready). I just wish I wasnt so tied up into the Apple ecosystem that backing out would be painless.
Well, that actually exists (Bluetooth 3.0 + HS). But it's basically the same as what Apple uses: A hybrid of Bluetooth and 802.11 Wifi.
I'm not entirely sure if Apple uses that standard or their own variation, but the principle is the same: Use Bluetooth just for connection setup, and 802.11 (whose radio interface is designed for higher bandwidth) for the actual data transfer.
I thought that at first, but nah, it's probably because Apple wants to control all the CarPlay presentations in the beginning. I'd agree with that for several reasons:
- This is Apple, the expert on presentation.
- Apple shouldn't let every single car company present CarPlay their own way and confuse consumers in the beginning.
- Auto manufacturers have always been braindead when it comes to all aspects digital technology. Might as well hand the mic over to Yahoo!.
The problem is that batteries that allow for long range are very heavy and expensive, and take a long time to recharge. For urban traffic and occasional longer trips it works great, but for vehicles that are often used for long trips the limitations are pretty severe. Even with Tesla's high-powered "superchargers" you have to stop for 45-60 minutes every 200 miles (and hope that a charger is available). Batteries also lose a lot of capacity at low temperatures.
Well, a fuel cell car is not an ICE. There is little reason to assume that automotive fuel cells, once they mature, will be any less trouble free than batteries (which also have a limited lifetime). I think the jury is still out when it comes to fuel cell cars (and will remain so for a number of years).
The car probably. But the battery will have lost a lot of capacity after 8-10 years.
Yea, I think where I live would be a *perfect* test for a Tesla... I really think they should send me a demo unit... one of the dual-motor (all wheel drive) ones with the biggest battery.
Yes, the current battery limitations are, well limiting. They'd work for a lot of people, but certainly not everyone. But, that's now... the tech is only going to improve as time marches on.No, I was talking about the mechanical elements of the car itself. I guess I should look up a hydrogen engine, but I'm assuming it's based off of a similar concept to other ICE designs, right? You still have a cooling system and more complex, moving-part engine of some sort... the associated drivetrain, etc.? The beauty of an electric car is direct, at the wheel, power. Aside from the computer and software tech, it's extremely simple mechanically.
As for batteries, the costs will come way down once mass-produced. If they are somewhat recyclable, that will help even more (especially if the aluminum based batteries come online someday... along with WAY faster charge time, double the power density, etc.).
I guess my point is. Lets say I'd like that top-of-the-line $140k Tesla, but it would last 25 years. Swapping a battery pack, when that time comes, should be fairly trivial, and not all that costly. In comparison to other cars, that $140k doesn't seem nearly as bad then, and the $70k model is a steal.
Nope, not at all. There is no combustion in a fuel cell. They produce electricity in a slow chemical reaction and have no major moving parts.
Yes, but automotive batteries also require a cooling system.
Not really. Fuel cell cars are essentially electrical vehicles where you replace the large battery by a fuel cell and a small battery. You could consider them EVs with the fuel cell acting as a range extender.
Sure, but barring some major breakthrough it will not be as much as many people hope. Mass-produced lithium-ion batteries have been commercially used for about two decades and are actually pretty mature technology. In the long run, fuel cells will almost certainly win in terms of weight and cost per capacity. But of course, they have their own problems (mainly related to the cost of the infrastructure and fuel production).
Last edited:
Ahh, I see what you're saying now... I was thinking burning the hydrogen in an ICE type setup. Aren't these things really inefficient though (end to end)? If the big deal is range (for a typical EV), why not just add a battery-pack type trailer which could be rented for trips or something to extend for the required range.
But yea, for overall practicality, there will need to be some advancements in battery tech before the electric car has much of a shot at overthrowing traditional ICE vehicles on a mass scale. But, *when* that happens, there won't be much of a reason not to covert... it's pretty much all upsides. (I'm an old-time sport-car junkie... you might guess what the '928' in my screen-name refers to. But, as much as I like a lot of the high-HP gas sports cars, I'd instantly go for a Tesla P85D if I could afford one... and there were charging stations around.)
We already see how tech ages quickly. A 20 year old Tesla will be a tech dinosaur with all the electrical gremlins associated with age. I love the car (Tesla) and the tech, but also know what old electronics in cars are like. As far as I know, building and disposing of batteries has it's own issues (Nickle mining, Lead, etc).
I think it is too early to pick winners and losers in the alternate fuel race. It could be electric batteries, fuel cell, natural gas, or all of the above. There are advances in all of these technologies that we are unaware of.
I also do wonder about wireless Car Play and how that would be integrated in modern cars. Wireless charging would be and interesting way to remove the anxiety of battery life.
I think it is too early to pick winners and losers in the alternate fuel race. It could be electric batteries, fuel cell, natural gas, or all of the above. There are advances in all of these technologies that we are unaware of.
I also do wonder about wireless Car Play and how that would be integrated in modern cars. Wireless charging would be and interesting way to remove the anxiety of battery life.
This is too obvious. The VW scandal is opposite to Tim's leftist political lobbying. If it had been a car maker closer to Tim political agenda, they would have been allowed to showcase this new feature right now.
In terms of possible electrical problems, I agree. But, unless it outright breaks, the car would be able to do what it currently does. New models would do more nifty things, and I suppose people would want to upgrade. But, I'm just talking about useful longevity vs an ICE car where enough stuff starts breaking, or engine needs rebuilt, etc. such that the overall reliability just becomes too much for a typical owner. Tech obsolesce is a problem in ICE cars too.
Some kind of 'battery' storage and electric drive would seem to be where it's going to go. I suppose that 'battery' could be fuel cells. But, the electric drive just has too many advantages in control and simplicity, that I don't think it'll be ICE, even if it were environmentally clean.
I'm not a big fan of stuff like Car Play, just because it's often so short-lived. I suppose I'm not opposed either, but just give me a Aux In.
While a Tesla might be around in 20 years, I have my doubts about Apple these days. Everyone might end up with Car Play cars with no devices to play on them.Well, it's just bad PR, no matter one's political views. Companies run from bad PR, for better or worse (i.e.: sometimes it's a worthy cause, often it's because they are chicken). That's why we're seeing so much P.C. bullying going on, where companies buckle on reasonable behavior because some people change their Facebook avatars.
Real-world efficiency of fuel cells in vehicles is about 40-60% (compared to about 25% for an ICE). With heat recapturing it can theoretically be pushed up to about 80%.
As for longevity, I own a Triumph Spitfire which is more than 25 years old and runs just fine.
I'd guess that replacing a Tesla battery today would be far more expensive than what it would cost me to replace the Spitfire's engine. Of course it's difficult to predict what will happen in the next 25 years.Wired CarPlay is buggy as hell... I doubt wireless is much better. It's half baked.
That right there is your explanation as to why Apple doesn't want companies showing off Wireless CarPlay.
That right there is your explanation as to why Apple doesn't want companies showing off Wireless CarPlay.
Real-world efficiency of fuel cells in vehicles is about 40-60% (compared to about 25% for an ICE). With heat recapturing it can theoretically be pushed up to about 80%.
As for longevity, I own a Triumph Spitfire which is more than 25 years old and runs just fine.
Yes, there are a lot of unknowns with alternate fuel vehicles. I too have a few older cars that seem to run fine, but, the days of ICE cars are numbered. It will still take a long time, but they will slowly dwindle in numbers.
The concept of Apple Play and the Android version is great but the execution, and standardization are the tough parts. Since I like to purchase my cars used, it will be a long time before I get to experience Apple Play.
I think that's just the car itself, though, not including the hydrogen production, which in my understanding is REALLY inefficient through current means. I guess there are some biological/organic means of production being experimented with? Otherwise, I think the overall efficiency would be quite low.
But, yea, ICE is pretty inefficient as well, and I don't think that's also including the energy of extraction and refinement, etc. Let alone the $billions ($trillions) the USA spends protecting 'US interests.' Even if I were 100% convinced global warming is baloney (I'm mostly there), I still think we need to work to reduce our dependence on oil and gas. Or, at least use it for things we really need to, and transportation probably isn't one of them.
As for longevity, I own a Triumph Spitfire which is more than 25 years old and runs just fine.
Heh, well I was talking about the average car owner. Yea, if you keep a car in good working order and keep fixing it, it could last a long time... especially if it isn't a daily driver or you don't live in harsh conditions. I think in a lot of places the rust would get to a traditional car before modern electronics die.