With buses, ports, security systems and power requirements changing all the time, at my work place we've mostly just given up on upgrading PC's, as the manufacturers want us to do. In my lab we try to upgrade PC's once if we can, and then after that further upgrades usually are not practical.
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Apple Product Roadmap 2023–24: Over 15 New Devices in Development
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When I hear things like this, my mind boggles.
I have only ever had Windows boxes where I have worked, (although I have provided Macs for my staff). Aside from breakage, I wonder what people do that needs a computer to be wholly replaced after 3 years. For me they have maybe seemed to be 10-20% slower at the end of their lives.
I dont know how to tell you this, but most people literally never upgrade their computers, no matter ilk.
Back in the days of the IIfx and IIci (early 1990s), I upgraded the video card, ram and disc storage with third party devices over the many years I owned them as products improved. Then the 68000 based CPUs went to Power PCs Those in turn became Intel CPUs. Each CPU change wiped out my investment in both hardware and software. The devices still worked by turning them on but the software evolved to the new processors so bye bye.
Buying the base model today is a sad state of affairs with the slow 256GB SSD that is stock and 8GB of soldered in ram. So that teaser price works if all the customer does is internet and email. There is only one upgrade path, buy a new computer.
In the last ten years or so, we went from being able to upgrade via third party devices like above to a soldered in environment where as it ships is how it stays other than operating systems.
Now the expensive mind set is to fully load a new system to try and future proof the computer for six or seven years and hope the M1 will be supported by future MacOS upgrades for a long time. The M1 MacBook Air and M1 iMac are still being sold in September 2023 so one hopes they will supported for five years or more in the newer generations of MacOS.
My over $6,000 December 2019 16" Intel ( fully optioned ) MacBook Pro is on borrowed time due to the Intel processor. Intel based devices were sold still this spring so Apple has to support the Intel processors in the MaxOS for at least three years.
Even when Apple ditches Intel support in MacOS, the 16" MBPro laptop would still run. At least there are other operating systems an Intel processor can run if one can get them loaded and booted up.
So my fully optioned IIfx and a 21"color Radeon monitor were over $10,000 then. My M1 MacStudio Ultra fully optioned with two Studio Displays cost with my military discount around $10,000. The purchase power of the dollar has fallen around 30% since the IIfx so the new M1 system could be considered a bargain.
My 2013 MacPro (trash can) with two 27" Thunderbolt 2 monitors were replaced by this M1 system in 2022. I got good service life for the investment in 2013.
Buying the base model today is a sad state of affairs with the slow 256GB SSD that is stock and 8GB of soldered in ram. So that teaser price works if all the customer does is internet and email. There is only one upgrade path, buy a new computer.
In the last ten years or so, we went from being able to upgrade via third party devices like above to a soldered in environment where as it ships is how it stays other than operating systems.
Now the expensive mind set is to fully load a new system to try and future proof the computer for six or seven years and hope the M1 will be supported by future MacOS upgrades for a long time. The M1 MacBook Air and M1 iMac are still being sold in September 2023 so one hopes they will supported for five years or more in the newer generations of MacOS.
My over $6,000 December 2019 16" Intel ( fully optioned ) MacBook Pro is on borrowed time due to the Intel processor. Intel based devices were sold still this spring so Apple has to support the Intel processors in the MaxOS for at least three years.
Even when Apple ditches Intel support in MacOS, the 16" MBPro laptop would still run. At least there are other operating systems an Intel processor can run if one can get them loaded and booted up.
So my fully optioned IIfx and a 21"color Radeon monitor were over $10,000 then. My M1 MacStudio Ultra fully optioned with two Studio Displays cost with my military discount around $10,000. The purchase power of the dollar has fallen around 30% since the IIfx so the new M1 system could be considered a bargain.
My 2013 MacPro (trash can) with two 27" Thunderbolt 2 monitors were replaced by this M1 system in 2022. I got good service life for the investment in 2013.
I spent $600 or so, upgrading a 9 year old PC. I was able to re-use my mouse, keyboard, and monitors, and while I didn't want to, the GPU also. Then a few years later, upgraded my CPU and GPU for ~$500. My current computer has about $2000 worth of parts in it, around $900 being monitors and periphials, but the most I've ever spent on it, in any given year - or 3 years even - was $600 for the almost complete rebuild.
Last year I spent ~US$800 on an M1 Mac mini with 1 TB SSD and 16 GB RAM.
And I sold the previous Mac mini it replaced.
When I bought my current 21.5 iMac in 2011 I paid about $1200 CAN. Since then over the years I added RAM, an i7 and SSD. Parts and labour cost me $800 to maybe $900 CAN over the years. The last upgrades were about three years ago.
So on top of purchase my iMac cost me maybe $75 CAN a year averaged out.
Okay that doesn’t include buying Microsoft Office 2011 and Office H&S 2019 when I upgraded to SSD.
Over the years I’ve spent money on upgrades, but this computer never cost me a dime in repairs over all those years.
I’d say it’s been a damn good purchase.
So on top of purchase my iMac cost me maybe $75 CAN a year averaged out.
Okay that doesn’t include buying Microsoft Office 2011 and Office H&S 2019 when I upgraded to SSD.
Over the years I’ve spent money on upgrades, but this computer never cost me a dime in repairs over all those years.
I’d say it’s been a damn good purchase.
motherboard/cpu/memory. Every 2-3 years? That's not $500... unless you're bargain basement shopping.
Note - every CPU upgrade worth buying from Intel has required a new motherboard if you're buying for performance in the first place, at least in my experience. And that almost always came with new memory requirements as well. My last Intel motherboard alone was $680 when purchased, the CPU was more.
at work, if a laptop lasts 3 years (windows) it's a miracle.
Personally, they last quite a while, I still have a box from the 90s that boots, but my 2010 is quite flaky at this point, struggling to fully boot.
Two things, 1) I've never found iMacs representing more "value" than a mini and a third party external display. iMac chips have tended to be low end, ports inadequate for many and DYI repairs (#righttorepair) generally declining.
2) You say you tried "the Dell 27" 4K" — there's literally dozens of Dell 27" 4K displays that have been released, from high end factory colour calibrated high gamut displays going for A$10K+ to low end "home" and "entertainment" 4Ks that go for a few hundred bucks.
The I own four Dell $4Ks of varying quality and have no scaling issues on any of them (other than the known GPU issues involving upscaling and downscaling the video signal which is true of any display). I have had other issues with gremlins making them flicker and freak every, maybe 8-12 months or so, not all of them but most at one point or another. Maybe it's just me and my aura/energy-field and unfair to blame Dell?!
I can tell you 8 MB is useless on my M1 mini. Constantly having to restart it and force quit apps. even browsers these days wanna go sucking many GBs of memory/VM and I have many dozens of tabs open sometimes, Safari and FireFox to split my work b/w study/research and work work. Throw in a few Adobe apps and it's all over.
I have 8GB in my MBP M1, and it works flawlessly with whatever I throw at it. But there is a big difference between using everyday software (browsers, mails and other macos apps etc) and "a few" Adobe apps.
Anyway, if you had problems with 8GB, then you gotta either change your computer-use style, or get more RAM. I don't see other options
I have one on every TV I have.
Same. And I am considering adding a TV to my Rowing Machine and would only do it with an Apple TV
That's unbelievable. My current windows laptop is going on 5 years and my desktop (3080 and 5800x) is now 4 years old. I fully expect both of them to be functional and quick enough to last 7 years. You sure you're not still living in 2002?
Pretty sure. I am on my third thinkpad in 14 months. No, not because I broke it, but because the systems failed. Maximum lifespan at work is under 4 years, the average is 2. Brand new i5s are almost unusable due to security software, so most of us get i7s, so these aren't bottom barrel cheapest laptops. The macs all last the maximum 4 years unless IT bricks them (has happened - yay inTune!!!)
The history of PC laptops indicate a 1-3 year average lifespan for models, Dell is particularly notorious for short hardware lifespans (or used to be - fortunately haven't dealt with Dell in 4 years now)
Yeah, I dont know what you’re doing to those poor laptops, but a typical business laptop does not typically break like that… And Dell’s business laptops are pretty bulletproof.
Dell's biggest problem is batteries, followed by keyboards, and then other hardware. We had stacks of Dell's with bad batteries and busted keyboards in that company.
Regarding this one - thinkpads, the first was recalled due to fire hazards, the second had a fan failure, the third, well, it's only a couple of months old, we'll see how it fares. Third times a charm, right?
(IOW - nothing. All manufacturing defects - and if you think this isn't average, go talk to the IT support folks in any larger company that uses Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc - their stories will not be any different)
We're on a 3yr refresh cycle at work. At the end of the cycle, our HP windows laptops are far from unusable. Most of them are mid-tier i5 elitebooks.
Back in 2018, I ordered a number of used Lenovo T440s (release date 2014) with i7s and upgraded SSDs for use in an office environment. I think i paid $230ea. They worked great for another couple years. Batteries needed to be replaced but beyond that, any issues were strictly user error.
I have noticed that people with windows machines treat their laptops like garbage, but mac users treat their machines with kid gloves. Something about that apple logo, says "baby me", but the HP/Dell/Lenovo logos scream "abuse me, daddy" to owners.
I have a personal MBP - it sits right next to the lenovo, both on desk and in backpack. So they are treated the same, used (mostly) the same way, and experience the same conditions. The differences are that the MBP is from 2019, and was heavily used in contract work and did a lot of road warrior trips. The last batch of Lenovo's were all babied and basically do a trip to the office and back. Oh - and the Lenovos like almost all windows laptops still fail to sleep/hibernate properly, and require regular (as in near daily) rebooting. The daily aspect I suspect has a lot to do with inTune and our IT policies, "security" policy recently was updated that the first thing you should do each morning is reboot your computer. If that's part of "security" you just may have bigger issues than *security*.
Sounds like your situation is a bit unique. This windows laptop in front of me often goes for well over a week without a reboot. Corporate security software/policies and all. Haven't had any issues with staying asleep on any of my laptops, though my windows desktop is having some issues with that right now. Though I suspect it's because I have 10-15 peripherals plugged in.
I do list the additional bits, because it is likely unique, but the sleep problems are not unique to this company's configuration/policies. Some family members have personal windows laptops, and they're not much better, although they, like you, can go week(s) without reboots.
As a counter - the HTPC mini upstairs that runs as a DVR also just got rebooted because I forgot I had to manually update it - 290 days. My laptop generally only reboots with kernel updates, and those are mostly manually done as well, and I have skipped a couple of point updates that don't address anything I need to worry about.
Of course both systems pale next to the SGI/Sun boxes I used to own... you just stick those in a closet and forget about them until something suddenly stops working