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"ESIM as a technology is the future"
I hardly think so. eSim has been around since the iPhone XR, 2018.
No one is saying eSim is 'Good, Bad, The Ugly'.
I have a few phones that have eSim technology AND a sim tray.

The point is Apple decided to limit the 14's with eSim only.
Not only does it inconvenience the user, it is less travel friendly in every way.

For the people that hate the sim tray, convert it to an eSim, throw the card in the trash
and be happy.
For me, I'll keep my sim tray and if I have the desire for another line or convert, I
have that ability.

Maybe next year Apple will have their phones locked to a particular carrier,
maybe AT&T (or whoever pays them the most). Now that would be future technology.

This decision by Apple will not cure well for the future. I sure hope it doesn't.
 
No, but Apple can when designing their products.

And?

The fact this is the first time in years that you can still get stock iphone 14 pro max in US (SF Bay Area). It’s already showing. Before product launch to put out promotion of esim is not norm.

Also stop dragging Steve into the discussion. This isn’t Jobs company anymore. This is Cook company that focuses on efficiency and cost cutting.

For look at the iPhone 6 packaging vs the current package. Material, printing all are significantly downgraded. The new MacBook Pro 14/16” is ugly. That isn’t thing Steve would have shipped. Apple design language is gone.

Whether you like it or not. It’s now all about bottom line.
 
I hardly think so. eSim has been around since the iPhone XR, 2018.
No one is saying eSim is 'Good, Bad, The Ugly'.
I have a few phones that have eSim technology AND a sim tray.

The point is Apple decided to limit the 14's with eSim only.
Not only does it inconvenience the user, it is less travel friendly in every way.

For the people that hate the sim tray, convert it to an eSim, throw the card in the trash
and be happy.
For me, I'll keep my sim tray and if I have the desire for another line or convert, I
have that ability.

Maybe next year Apple will have their phones locked to a particular carrier,
maybe AT&T (or whoever pays them the most). Now that would be future technology.

This decision by Apple will not cure well for the future. I sure hope it doesn't.

We should look things in different aspects.

Technology wise- ESIM is the future. It does have benefit over physical sim.

Commercially- carrier and infrastructure are the root of the problem with ESIM implementation.

Apple just brought this problem to US customers. Pushing for things that isn’t ready. All to save $.15 per phone.

I don’t blame ESIM. I blame Apple greed and arrogance under Cook. Eve Jobs summed it the best. This isn’t Jobs company anymore.
 
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The question isn't whether or not carriers abroad support eSIM, the question is, can I, a visitor to the country who doesn't have a local address, local bank account, local government ID, and who may not speak a word of the local language, get a plan with an eSIM before I walk out of the airport?

It's usually easy enough to buy a physical SIM card when you arrive, some countries have vending machines for them in the airport.

I'm going to Turkey next year. According to Apple, there are 3 carriers there that support eSIM. Fantastic. How do I get one? The carrier's sites are in Turkish. I stumbled through one of them with Google Translate. I think I need to already have a Turkish number to sign up. I'd most certainly need a Turkish address, possibly a Turkish bank account to pay for it.

Hell, I went to see what the options are for the UK, to at least remove the language barrier. Seems like none of them support eSIM for PAYG. I guess as a visitor, I'm not getting an eSIM.

And yes, I know about Airalo and the like. They're convenient, but expensive compared to local plans. They also don't support voice calling if that's something you need. Airalo is probably fine for most people for short term travel, but if you're spending a lot of time abroad, it's not going to cut it.
No, that's not a question, it's been answered a million times already. You can get an eSIM even BEFORE leaving your country. Just install the darrned eSIM apps. Truphone, GigSky, Ubigi, whatever. How many times does this have to be addressed, really, it's getting old.

But still everyone keeps freaking out like they thought of an issue that NONE of the 9 million engineers and managers of Apple haven't. What a bold sentiment.
 
No, that's not a question, it's been answered a million times already. You can get an eSIM even BEFORE leaving your country. Just install the darrned eSIM apps. Truphone, GigSky, Ubigi, whatever. How many times does this have to be addressed, really, it's getting old.

But still everyone keeps freaking out like they thought of an issue that NONE of the 9 million engineers and managers of Apple haven't. What a bold sentiment.
You missed the issue here. Ex apple engineer here.

1. Some people do need a prepaid esim with actual local number. The service you mentioned such as 3rd party esim are often data only.

2. There is not much different with 3rd party esim to roaming plan because it much more expensive than local prepaid esim.

3. Not all country support esim and even more fewer support prepaid esim.

This is a carrier and commercial issue. Apple just made a a decision in favor of the carrier to save $.15
 
No, that's not a question, it's been answered a million times already. You can get an eSIM even BEFORE leaving your country. Just install the darrned eSIM apps. Truphone, GigSky, Ubigi, whatever. How many times does this have to be addressed, really, it's getting old.

But still everyone keeps freaking out like they thought of an issue that NONE of the 9 million engineers and managers of Apple haven't. What a bold sentiment.
Because those eSim providers do not give you a local number. They are also quite expensive compared to a local prepaid sim, and the data speed can be quite slow as they buy cheap bulk data. How many times does that need to be addressed, really, it's getting old.
 
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No, that's not a question, it's been answered a million times already. You can get an eSIM even BEFORE leaving your country. Just install the darrned eSIM apps. Truphone, GigSky, Ubigi, whatever. How many times does this have to be addressed, really, it's getting old.

But still everyone keeps freaking out like they thought of an issue that NONE of the 9 million engineers and managers of Apple haven't. What a bold sentiment.
None of those apps give you a local phone number or calling abilities, which some people may require. They’re also often expensive compared to a local SIM.

How many times does this have to be explained?
 
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Ting's problem is likely more so them flip-flopping on their main backhaul physical network more than eSIM. They were on T-mobile and then bolted to Verizon. Then got bought by Dish who has major MNVO deals with T-Mobile (who Ting ran away from) and AT&T while they roll out their own tower & network; so about everyone but Verizon. All of that churn isn't going to get faster eSIM provisioning because likely have to tap into multiple different eSIM provisioning systems. It is doable but expensive which Ting is probably trying to avoid.

The number of real (non virtual) carriers that don't support eSIM in the USA is about zero (there are some super small footprint , rural operators out boonies that are can't/won't do the upgrades due to low operating margins. Not getting 5G (or maybe even 4G) out of them either. ) . The MVNOs that pick a single physical network to deploy over have decent traction on eSIMs. More than a handful are owned by real carriers that is pretty easy ( Tracfone has eSIMs , but at this point owned by Verizon).








Again indicative of old infrastructure all around; not just eSIM. (possibly an older CDMA network provisioning interface. )
Fun times, did not know about them using Verizon instead of T-Mobile. Would explain why service suddenly took a plummet around 2018/2019. Around that time I tried Ting’s GSM option which worked fine except for the problem of “it doesn’t work at all when inside a building” so went back to CDMA. Signal strength/network quality has steadily degraded since then.

Also underscores my assumption that Dish is sunsetting Ting to push everyone to Boost in the coming years.
 
Also underscores my assumption that Dish is sunsetting Ting to push everyone to Boost in the coming years.

Probably not. Dish's viewpoint is slightly different than Verizon and T-mobile.

"...
“We’ve said that we’re in the wholesale business, so our capacity can be sold to others in the industry, so we’re not trying to monopolize our network,” he said. “I guess the answer is it’s not a necessity but today we prefer that it belongs with us.”.
...

Stephen Stokols, the executive in charge of Dish's retail wireless business, spoke of the more aggressive expansion into postpaid that Dish has planned for later this year with the Boost Infinite brand.
..."
https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/dish-prefers-keep-boost-now-ergen

I think the plan at one point was to turn Boost into their "Premium" holding brand. Not completely shut down the current customer base , but not necessarily 'roll up' all the discount alternatives either.

The disconnect from reality is that Dish is more so in the buying wholesale business right now rather than selling it.
They appear to want to be able to pull in more MVNOs , so having some in-house ones can somewhat demonstrate that they could/would be competent at that if subsidiaries are running systems that integrate cleanly with the network backend. However, also competing so it is a bit dual edged.

Boost is loosing subscribers. Trying to force Ting users to offset the exodus from Boost would likely end badly for both subsidiaries. That isn't going to dig Dish out of the huge hole they are in. Dish is way far behind the curve putting up infrastructure to be able to the monetize the spectrum that they paid many , many billions of dollars to get access to. Shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic isn't going to help plug the hole or closer the water tight doors from the iceberg.

I think Ergen is in this 'wishful thinking' mode where hoping to just provision back end network while customers churn across MVNOs that are sitting on top of the same network. The end users customers are moving, sim changing, phones shifting, etc. with steady churn, but the aggregate network payments all stay approximately the same.

Some of that is managing 'optics' with the finance analysts. ("don't mind that huge debt load .. we will have reliable stream of payments to make interest & principle payments on time. "), but some of that seems like non attention to detail ( not going to retain lots of outside MVNOs if you don't have very good , very reliable network for their end user customers. They do need to care deeply about the end users' experience. Squatting on gobs of 'empty' spectrum isn't good for end users. )

There is a narrow tightrope Dish can walk to becoming a long term viable 4th player. They aren't certainly doomed (as literally the Titanic ). However, if they screw up too much not, they going to survive either.

P.S. The articles suggestion that selling Boost would solve Dish's funding problem. Probably not. Just more reshuffling deck chairs. ( if have a MVNO backbone network and have no MVNO customers ... it isn't going to matter. If they saddle some new entity with high debt then they are more likely going to seek a deal with T-mobile to abandon Dish's network. And T-mobile would likely give it to them. ).
 
We all know the benefits to eSIM, the issue is not there. The issue is that many carriers outside (and even inside) the US still doesn't support it to this day.
This affects very few people. Don’t see an issue: I wouldn’t cater to a .01 population that frequent travels. Waste of money
 
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This affects very few people. Don’t see an issue: I wouldn’t cater to a .01 population that frequent travels. Waste of money
In a saturated market not sure you can afford to ignore even small batches of millions and remember US has a big legitimate alien workforce that require often use of home country sims, so its not just about travelling
 
Here's the thing.

If you can't get into a country without having a local number, most tourist's won't come.
If you can't take a cab, travel by train or bus, book a hotel or any other such things, without a local number, their tourist traffic will decline dramatically.

I would never travel to another country as a tourist with such a requirement and I think most US tourists would agree with me.
I don't think your preference is what guides the market. There are plenty of people with plenty of reasons to visit places that put up relatively trivial bureaucratic hurdles like this. Maybe they have family there. Maybe they need to go there for work. Maybe they are more motivated by the unique cultural attractions than by their aversion to procedures they're unaccustomed to.
 
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Apple fail. My daughter just bought an iPhone 14 and will be traveling to China soon. She will have to buy an older iPhone model to bring along so she can function and do what she needs to in China which is, by the way, one of the largest iPhone markets in the world. Crazy doesn't begin to describe this.
I would never take my US phone to China where it would be compromised by the Chinese government. Take a burner.
 
Finally got my employer to move the line on a physical SIM to an eSIM. That only took 11 days. If the 14 had a physical SIM slot, it would have taken 30 seconds - and I would have all the benefits of a physical SIM card.

eSIM only sucks.
 
I just landed in Singapore.

After walking around for 30 minutes and 4 Changi recommends store later.

1. You can't get pre-paid esim from M1. So whoever said that is available at Changi doesn't know what he is talking about.

Basically us IPhone 14/pro is a brick when you land in Singapore.
 
I just landed in Singapore.

After walking around for 30 minutes and 4 Changi recommends store later.

1. You can't get pre-paid esim from M1. So whoever said that is available at Changi doesn't know what he is talking about.

Basically us IPhone 14/pro is a brick when you land in Singapore.
Are you referring to the post from September? That person stated he got the code from a convenience store, not the M1 store.

Could it be possible that you didn’t do the exact steps that the other person did, and therefore you had different results?

Post #69, is why I’m referring to. This poster seemed to be the only one with direct experience with success at Changi.
 
For a tourist. Changi recommends- which is run by the airport itself as main source of place getting SIM card.

Which is everywhere in terminal, at jewel as soon as you exit the baggage claim, and have every carrier available.

That is the most easiest way to get esim. I seriously doubt he was able to get that from 7-11. As I also went to 7-11 and inquire. All are only selling physical sim.

ESIM is available at M1 store- but still nearly impossible to get.

It's not what apple says- easy and seamless.
 
Just returned from Europe (France, Switzerland, Italy) and it was a cinch with my iPhone 13 Pro. Landed, saw a vending machine with sims at the terminal and done. I originally had an order for a 14 Pro but cancelled as I knew sim was going to be an issue.

I don't even use an esim here as I like to switch between my iPhone and my Flip Z 4. Takes me longer to walk to my desk and get the sim popper than switching my sim to the other phone.
 
Just returned from Europe (France, Switzerland, Italy) and it was a cinch with my iPhone 13 Pro. Landed, saw a vending machine with sims at the terminal and done. I originally had an order for a 14 Pro but cancelled as I knew sim was going to be an issue.

I don't even use an esim here as I like to switch between my iPhone and my Flip Z 4. Takes me longer to walk to my desk and get the sim popper than switching my sim to the other phone.
And this is exactly why eliminating a SIM slot is stupid. The world isn’t remotely ready for this yet. This isn’t the floppy drive - it’s like removing the screen and saying interact with your phone entirely with Siri.
 
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The world isn’t remotely ready for this yet. This isn’t the floppy drive - it’s like removing the screen and saying interact with your phone entirely with Siri.
The problem is that the world is never ready for anything. Progress doesn't just happen, it has to be dragged along by folks that want to change the status quo.

There are positive benefits to moving to all eSIM, and there will be growing pains, but to the majority of American users, these pains don't affect them at all. In fact, the removal of the floppy drive on the Mac was probably way more impactful than the removal of pSIM on the iPhone. This affects a very small percentage of users. Does it suck to be inconvenienced if you're one of those users? Of course it does. But eventually, eSIM will be the standard all over the world (with maybe some exceptions). In a year or two, we won't be having this discussion, just like Mac users stopped talking about the floppy drive (or the removal of ADB, SCSI, Firewire, etc)
 
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