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digitalbiker said:
The equipment is usually discounted or free with a subscription.
Which is why you rarely see the real cost of these devices. (like mobile phones).

The $99 (list price) DTV HD Receiver is probably worth $299 already, they just have you with a $40/month plan to subsidize the hardware costs. I know I paid $399 after $200 rebate for my HR10-250 not too long ago. I comitted to 2 years of HD DTV programming to get the rebate.

B
 
balamw said:
Which is why you rarely see the real cost of these devices. (like mobile phones).

The $99 (list price) DTV HD Receiver is probably worth $299 already, they just have you with a $40/month plan to subsidize the hardware costs. I know I paid $399 after $200 rebate for my HR10-250 not too long ago. I comitted to 2 years of HD DTV programming to get the rebate.

B

Yes, they do hide the cost in the subscription. But don't you think $40.00 a month is a much more reasonable plan than $14.99 a movie, plus a computer, plus iTV plus monthly high-speed bandwidth costs.

The general masses that buy their TV's and Windows PC's at Walmart are not switching soon.

I imagine the mac faithful will love the download service. I just don't currently see it moving to the masses.
 
digitalbiker said:
Yes, they do hide the cost in the subscription. But don't you think $40.00 a month is a much more reasonable plan than $14.99 a movie, plus a computer, plus iTV plus monthly high-speed bandwidth costs.

The general masses that buy their TV's and Windows PC's at Walmart are not switching soon.

I imagine the mac faithful will love the download service. I just don't currently see it moving to the masses.

I really don't believe iTV/Movie downloads are meant to replace services like Satellite or Cable.
 
macklos said:
Joe Everyman wants to own a Mac and is on their way in the near future to buy one. Cuz they ain't just for gadgeteers and "artists" any more. That old adage is going away faster than you think.
And as stated this little box isn't OS dependent so even if Joe Everyman doesn't have a Mac now he can use iTunes for Windopes in the meantime until he wakes up one day with Apple on the brain and finds himself at the Apple store buying a Mac.

p.s. I think it was a very wise move for ole Steve to be so un-Apple like and give the world a preview into this particular product.

I can tell you as an IT manager with 14 years in the industry and working in Manhattan for publishing, branding, ad agencies, that's not the case. Joe everyman wants a cheap pc that is compatible with the rest of the world, not 4% market share. Joe Everyman doesn't want to learn a new os. Joe everyman relies on outlook, for which entourage is no substitute, and joe everyman wants it all cheap ~$500.

I'm PRO Apple, I'm Pro iPod, I'm Pro everything here - which is why i belong here.. one of my friends is a developer there even... but do some research and you will see that the marketshare numbers for Mac sales have been spun, apple is LOSING share on the PC front. Ipods and the like, sure, they are selling well for now - Wallstreet seems to see an imminent bubble pop - and these are expert analysts. Maybe they'll be wrong, but apple is not going ot rocket to the limelight where Microsoft failed on the media center front without a lot of passed time, and a lot of added expense.
 
you know, one key point is - can i stream divx files or non purchased stuff - will it only support h264?

dahn dahn dahn
 
Next week I'm upgrading my MBP's hard drive to a 160GB drive. The existing 100GB drive is going into an external cage. The one thing I want to know is can I hook up said external drive to the iTV. This streaming crap is just that. Why would I want to stream when I could just as easily hook up a drive to the box and not hit my network with pointless overhead.
Overall I'm....interested. I'm not sold simply because I'm getting the vibe that Apple once again is going to do something that is Mac centric instead of media center (Stand alone) centric. we'll see though. This is a new tactic for Apple. Showing hardware this early in the game. I think they are trying for a viral approach to creating buzz this time. Show a snippet now with features that aren’t being shown. Create enough of a buzz to make some people hold off over the holiday shopping season, and bam. Solid sales come January when I’m assuming they launch it. (MWSF anyone?)
 
h00ligan said:
I can tell you as an IT manager with 14 years in the industry and working in Manhattan for publishing, branding, ad agencies, that's not the case. Joe everyman wants a cheap pc that is compatible with the rest of the world, not 4% market share. Joe Everyman doesn't want to learn a new os. Joe everyman relies on outlook, for which entourage is no substitute, and joe everyman wants it all cheap ~$500.

I'm PRO Apple, I'm Pro iPod, I'm Pro everything here - which is why i belong here.. one of my friends is a developer there even... but do some research and you will see that the marketshare numbers for Mac sales have been spun, apple is LOSING share on the PC front. Ipods and the like, sure, they are selling well for now - Wallstreet seems to see an imminent bubble pop - and these are expert analysts. Maybe they'll be wrong, but apple is not going ot rocket to the limelight where Microsoft failed on the media center front without a lot of passed time, and a lot of added expense.


++ Let me add to that. I do Dell warrantee work and for all the people who bitch about Dell there are A LOT of people willing to deal with the headaches because of that $300-$400 price tag. Let’s not get into the whole "You get more with a Mac." That may be true but at the end of the day this is a Walmart world. Price is everything. And many if not most people will look for the cheapest (in price) computer they can find and that isn't a Mac.

PS- That being said I can't tell you how many people ask why as someone who is doing Dell work why I'm carrying a Mac around with me...Q&A's generally follow as I work on their Dell with their fried motherboard. :D
 
Like it or not we have not seen all the features of this baby. Also that USB is very curious, it maybe used as an input or as an output. You maybe able to connect an elgato to it or use it for external usb hard drive, or it maybe used to connect to cable box to change channels, lots of possibilities.

HOWEVER...... Until we hear more about it, it is a fat Airport Express with HDMI port. :p I put it in the same class as the iPod failed boombox "HI-FI". Close but no cigar, at least not yet.
 
tack said:
I'm starting to think that everyone on this forum has a desktop.

What frustrates me about what this device appears to be is that it requires a desktop computer somewhere that is always on. Otherwise you need to go grab your laptop from whatever room you left it in and plug it in any time you want to use it to watch a movie or listen to music.

I would like something that is NOT a computer, that I never have to connect a keyboard or mouse to that I can use to access my media.

Now if this device supports adding a usb hard drive (or can use a network drive) that you can sync to like an ipod, then I'll be interested. But if streaming is the only option then I think it is of minimal use to laptop users.

What would be really cool is if you could connect a usb drive to it and use that as the source for your media as well as the location that time machine uses to back up your data.

2 laptops here and 1 desktop, next year 1 more laptop and a dual quad Mac Pro, maybe a few minis to use as servers or NAS. No future plans for wirelss streaming here.

You can put the computer close to the TV with a wire or you can put it in another room with this device. You still need to get up to go to the other room to eject the dvd and put a new one in, you need to go to the other room to change the channel that comes out of the cablebox. Sounds like more running around than putting the computer in the living room and using a cable. Since you need a computer eitherway and can use Front Row in either setup, the wireless solution is a lot more expensive. Also since the content is 640x480 from iTunes to the PC or to the iPod, you can cable the iPod to the TV for 20 or 40 bucks and not use the computer other than to download and to load the iPod every few days. Looks like it is in the same class as the HI-FI, a flop so far. Maybe in the future it will evolve and because a must have, so why buy now, why not wait until it is really useful?
 
exactjack said:
I am really struck by just how many really geeky, elitist, techno-snobs there are posting here who are more interested in bending the world around them to their shape, than in doing what a smart business -- like Apple -- does: They actually look at the vast sea of real customers, and create new products that will sell in large numbers. Apple's customer is not 'you,' Mister (or Ms.) TechnoGeek. The customer here is Jane and Joe Everyman... the same people now buying the vast majority of iMacs, minis, and iPods. And, from that view, that's me: Joe Everyman.

I watch video of all qualities, including really screwy VHS tapes from 10-years ago with lines flickering through the image. I also watch some hi-def, with most stuff being generally broadcast or commercial DVD quality. I watch it all, as I am really into the stories portrayed in these movies and shows, and care much less about the gem-like perfection of the image. If you'll go out into the middle-class neighborhoods of the world and talk to real families, you'll find a prevalence of this same attitude. "Quality" is secondary to content to the mass market.

You, Mister TechnoGeek, may have a home stuffed with leading edge electronics... 102 inch plasmas... gigbit Ethernet everywhere... dedicated rackmount media servers... whatever. I am proud for you. But, Joe and Jane are out here with a 20-inch TV in the bedroom connected to a 5 yr old VCR and a 1 yr old DVD player, and they have a 27-inch CRT set, or 52-inch rear projection set in the living room connected to a cable box, a 2 yr old VCR, and a new DVD player (not "progressive scan," either... the mid-priced one from Target). We see flat panel sets when we shop, and hear a few friends brag about them... we are talking about buying one. We have a nice PC in the corner or in the bedroom... or, we're thinking about replacing the old PC, and are aware of the new Apple products. We're 'hip' enough to use some technology, but we don't live it and breathe it. We are avid iPod/iTunes users, and iTunes store shoppers.

That all said, I now see Apple showing a little box that I can plug into the 52-inch set in the living room wiht one cable. And, magically I can now watch any video that's on our PC on that TV set... AND can control it all with a little simple remote control that works with the PC back in the bedroom. My response is, "Wow, that's cool!" And, despite my somewhat backwards appearance to the technology cogniscenti of the world, I actually do spend cash on cool grdagets from time to time... like that $350 iPod I own. I have that $299 sitting here to spend on something simple and cool like this iTV box.

Joe and Jane don't know that ElGato exists, and would never dream of trying to figure out how to start hanging peripherals off their PC and getting multiple doodads working together. They're just not into that sort of tinkering. They have real lives. And, they just want to plug something in, and instantly have it work. And, they want to just push a button or two, sit down on their sofa, and watch their videos of choice. No hassle.

Welcome to the next era of transitioning Joe and Jane away from real-time content and into the world of content on demand. Apple really did just fire the magic bullet by showing us this one elegantly simple end to end solution possibility.

If you don't get it, you're probably not in Apple's vast target demograpic for the iTunes Store or the iTV. I am. I get it. And, I want two of these right now... for the living room and the bedroom.
Apple also sells iPods that play videos and a cable that let you connect the iPod to the TV. That would be cheaper and simpler for Joe and Jane, besides their old computer would need an upgrade anyway to 802.11N in order to do the Magic. The iPod they already have all they need is a cable. Now that is simple and cost effective, and gets the same resolution.
 
Philsy said:
Does this unit allow you to browse and download films and TV shows from the iTunes Store direct from your TV, or do you have to go to your Mac to do that?
Looks like you can browse, see some previews, but to download and stream you need a computer (based on what seen so far).
 
Well I hope Apple reads this blog. I think there are a lot of opinions here that would be very useful to them. Sorry not buying, but others will. Would be nice to have a poll for all the main opinions to round this up.
 
EagerDragon said:
Like it or not we have not seen all the features of this baby. Also that USB is very curious, it maybe used as an input or as an output. You maybe able to connect an elgato to it or use it for external usb hard drive, or it maybe used to connect to cable box to change channels, lots of possibilities.

HOWEVER...... Until we hear more about it, it is a fat Airport Express with HDMI port. :p I put it in the same class as the iPod failed boombox "HI-FI". Close but no cigar, at least not yet.

I agree.

However I think this thing could be a great big seller if it also did the TV process in reverse. In otherwords, what if this thing took high-def cable, satellite, component in, encoded the signal on the fly and streamed back to your computer. With a nice new Apple software package you could have a killer "Fat Airport Express / DVR system". That would probably fly off the shelves at $299.00.
 
From 2001 Space Odyssey to Pippin to Internet to Today and beyond!

Back in 1996 I worked with the Apple new technology solution organisation with Satjiv Chahil in an attempt to connect the Apple Pippin project (gaming solution that took off in Asia but never materialised in US). Back then the internet and wireless networks were pretty much non-existent or in an embryonic stage. Now with the technology infrastructure of the internet and wireless in place today, the iTV product initiative fits in real well. However, IMO this is rather a feable solution that satisfies a single initiative (to promote and encourage sales and use of the iTunes solutions).... Yes, I know focus is good and margins are usually much better for simplicity technology (as I like to call it), but you guys at Apple are already out-done by existing product lines out there. Case in point... check out SkipJam ( http://www.skipjam.com )and NetGear ( http://www.netgear.com ) which has aquired SkipJam recently (Press release: http://www.netgear.com/About/PressReleases/en-US/2006/20060802b.aspx ).

IMO, the product solutions that SkipJam has and will be enhanced with the new Netgear technology solutions (e.g. routing technologies, system integration technologies, wireless technologies, etc...) will run circles around the iTV product that is still in the development phase. I know Netgear is working closely with major technology industry players regarding this home entertainment / home monitoring / multimedia / computer marriage solution us technologist have been working on standardising for the last 10 years... Maybe Apple should form a business alliance (JDA or the like) with NetGear and enhance its product solutions and offerings in a quicker to market, more cost effective and standardising manner without doing the old IBM mistake of trying to be the ruler and owner of a technology standard that no one wants to embrace or, more importantly, plug into (remember Object Oriented design?)

Well so much from a guy who has been working and dreaming about this wonderful stuff for 30 years. I used to dream of this when my Dad, who worked for IBM 38 years, took me to the opening showing of 2001 Space Odyssey and I saw HAL and the astronauts talking, playing chess, watching TV and video conferencing on a flat notebook pad... amazing how Hollywood dreams can become reality... Oh, by the way, remember how everything in the movie 2001 was in a lovely Apple white! ;-)

I hope you guys at Apple can make even better things happen with the like of NetGear and SkipJam! Fact is, I bet you could standardise solutions with your iTV solution and that of NetGear's... the tough cookie to crack will be the politics, patents and inventions... I know... been there, done that, wore that T-shirt... wish I could have worn those Apple blue-jeans to work though... usually had to wear an IBM "shrink wrapped" suite..LOL.

Good Night and good luck you lucky technologist... I say "lucky" because you are following through on the dream I had as a child in 1968 and in the companies I worked for over the last 10 years. If you have any questions, though, I would love to answer, you can email me at engvold@mcint.net ... I always love to dream and evangelize.

Sincerely,
Karl Engvold
MultiMedia Consultants International
http://www.mcint.net
 
another interesting twist on this type of device is if it could act as a thin client like the CE based citrix terminals.
 
digitalbiker said:
But don't you think $40.00 a month is a much more reasonable plan than $14.99 a movie, plus a computer, plus iTV plus monthly high-speed bandwidth costs.

Peace said:
I really don't believe iTV/Movie downloads are meant to replace services like Satellite or Cable.
It really all depends on how much TV you watch, and what content is available on the service.

There were folks who did the cost analysis when the TV shows first got added to iTMS that they could definitely come out ahead financially if they just subscribed to The Daily Show + Colbert + The Office and 1 or 2 other shows, since when they are runnning reruns they don't have to pay. (Unlike cable/satellite).

If all you watch is a movie + follow one show a month you're looking at $14.99 + $1.99x4 = $23 instead of $40/month for cable or satellite, less when the shows are in reruns. (I don't include the cost of broadband, since you'd still have to pay for that if you had cable or satellite.)

B
 
I`m not falling for this

:mad: I`m waiting a year or two until this 24" imac has Blue Ray, a 1 terabyte HD as standard, and iTunes has matured abit with this TV show/movie tingy.:p

Then I`ll pull the cable box out of my TV and just use the DVR for that and the imac for itunes stuff.

Never the twain shall meet.;)
 
blybug said:
Not that there's a terribly large number of ways to create a media hub device but seeing the iTV (exactly what I'd hoped and predicted except $100 more) makes me wonder even more if this isn't Elgato's EyeHome dressed up in a shiny Apple wrapper. You really have to dig through Elgato's site to find the EyeHome anymore, as if they are sort of quietly phasing it out...like SoundJam before iTunes...

iTV
attachment.php


EyeHome
back.jpg


All the naysayers are missing the point. Take it from someone who has used the EyeHome for a couple years...having all your music, pictures, and videos (yes, Handbraked DVDs of course as a "video jukebox", but home videos! anyone here have kids!!?) instantly accessible on the living room TV is great. You just don't get it until you've used it. Just like you couldn't imagine what anyone would want with 10,000 songs in their pocket until you fondled your first iPod. And now with the Apple spit and polish, I'll buy one on Day #1 to replace the EyeHome.

I agree with this post. I plan to get a mini to manage my music & photo collection and put it under my TV. So when I want to show photos to people they can look at a 35 inch screen instead of a 20 inch screen. My main computer moves upstairs out of the family room.

But my main computer is more powerful than the mini and has more hard drive space. So I do all my photoshop work and DVD burning upstairs. So I either have to stream it Mac to Mac or sneaker net it downstairs. iTV solves this problem for me.
 
At first I though this was like a big ipod which connected directly to the internet so you could download stuff from itunes. But to have to use it with a computer stops my excitement in its tracks. You don't need a computer to use an ipod (well only to download songs to it but not to listen to it) so why have to have a computer with this.

I'm fed up with the computer being central to everything-is it just ways to sell more imacs?

What I want is something which could connect to itunes directly, which you could browse with the remote control, had its own internal storage and the ability to add tunes via your existing CD player connected to it and also have video recording abilities.

This just seems an extension of a computer, won't be getting it if this is what it is.
 
Lynxpoint said:
another interesting twist on this type of device is if it could act as a thin client like the CE based citrix terminals.

come again?

I'm not Joe average when it comes to computers, but you'll have to clarify that one (yes, I am too lazy to google and wikipedia (is that a verb? It is now !))
 
milo said:
Is there really that much difference between 640 and 720? Seems funny to say one is "not pretty" but those extra 80 lines (and no difference in the other dimension) make it acceptable.

Standard definition TV or DVD is 720x480 (480i/p in HDTV lingo).

HDTV is 1280x720 (720p) or 1920x1080 (1080i/p)

It's 720x480 not 640x480 because TV pixels are not square, computer pixels are.
 
Peace said:
If it did support HD??

thats kinda stupid considering it has HDMI and component connectors.

Hmmm... Yeah. I honestly don't understand why people would question that. I mean: HDMI stands for "High-Definition Multimedia Interface". I might be dense sometimes, but I'd assume Apple would have put composite and/or S-video connectors instead if they didn't care about HD. The latter would probably be much cheaper.

Apple is not selling HD content on the iTS, but that doesn't mean they won't allow you to stream whatever HD content you have from your computer to your TV. For example, I'm pretty sure that at least some iPods are carrying some songs that were not bought on the iTMS. Don't you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Definition_Multimedia_Interface
 
Patch^ said:
I Can't see Apple adding a DVR (TV recorder) because they want you to buy TV shows, Movies and Music off iTunes not off the TV! lol. If they did, people would probably stop buying content off iTunes.

In the future I'm sure we will see more HD Content on the iTunes store and some other features :) i.e. When broadband speeds increase a bit more (HD content is huge! Ever tried watching a HD Trailer? lol)

Also I hope they change the code-name from iTv to something else because there is a Television network in the UK called ITV :O...could get confusing and possible lawsuits.

(sorry if all of this has been mentioned already)

Considering that Apple is not really making a lot of money from music downloads and that the content sold on the iTMS mostly fuels hardware sales, I'm not all that convinced that they'll have a fat margin on movie downloads. I read somewhere - I don't recall where though, sorry - that an average movie (at the actual resolution) would be something like 800-900 megs. They sells those for 10$ or so. A music album as sold on the iTMS is what? 100 megs, top? I don't know exactly, but I'm sure everyone will get the idea. If bandwidth costs were a significant expense for music downloads, they'll be ever more so for movies, and Apple is asking roughly the same price for an 800-megs movie or a 100-megs music album. Yes, they might make a few bucks from the sale of content, but I still believe that, for Apple, that's not where the real money is. I haven't dissected hard numbers though, so feel free to fill in the blanks and shoot down my balloon as you see fit.
 
I said existing Mac users

digitalbiker said:
How do you figure? You still need a computer to play content to the iTV. iTV only works with iTunes or QuickTime, how are you going to play content from those applications if you don't have a computer.

I still just see iTV as a wireless ADC/HDMI cable to the TV set. It is a good idea and it does give Apple a complete solution from download to your TV. But I think it is way over priced.

I would rather use on-demand or directv ppv with DVR. It is a lot cheaper and it is true 720p or 1080i resolution with 1080p on the horizon. PPV on DirecTV costs all of $3.99 a movie. The equipment is usually discounted or free with a subscription.

Sure rental is different, maybe Apple will also do a rental model. But existing Mac users already have the computer. I think it would be great at $199.00, but $299.00 is a price most Mac users are comfortable with Think IPod. I already have a computer and was thinking of Mac Mini on my home theatre. This is a cheaper option for me just having to add TV Mini HD to my computer and streaming to ITv
 
He's not dead yet.

Richard Bleiche said:
Steve has been looking thinner and thinner.

Am I the only one that noticed? Today he wore a regular shirt...no mock turtleneck. I bet his neck looked too thin in one.

Perhaps the sneak peak - which Apple NEVER does, because he wanted to announce this because won't be around by the 1st Q of 2007.

You know... It will sound cheesy and all, but I'll say it anyways. Some great men and women *have* truly made "a dent in the universe" (if I recall His Steveness's words correctly). One day, Steve Jobs will die. His physical shell will be broken. But I'll also say that he's already earned his own little immortality, in the same way as, let's say, Mozart did. So yeah... in a way, he can't die that easily.

As an Apple shareholder though, I hear you and take notice. If he's dying tomorrow, I'd rather sell today, because the stock would take quite a beating if he died suddenly without tons of prior reassurances and insurance policies for the future of the company, i.e. a solid succession plan.

As others have said though, the sneak peek seems geared at convincing the reluctant movie studios that they need to get their stuff on the iTS asap or else they'll be left behind when everyone abandons DVDs (or so the RDF goes). We'll see. I hope the guy sticks around a long time though.
 
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