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Apple Provides Sneak Peak Of Media Center

tack said:
I'm starting to think that everyone on this forum has a desktop.

What frustrates me about what this device appears to be is that it requires a desktop computer somewhere that is always on. Otherwise you need to go grab your laptop from whatever room you left it in and plug it in any time you want to use it to watch a movie or listen to music.

I would like something that is NOT a computer, that I never have to connect a keyboard or mouse to that I can use to access my media.

Now if this device supports adding a usb hard drive (or can use a network drive) that you can sync to like an ipod, then I'll be interested. But if streaming is the only option then I think it is of minimal use to laptop users.

What would be really cool is if you could connect a usb drive to it and use that as the source for your media as well as the location that time machine uses to back up your data.
Click to expand...

It has built-in wireless and a USB port. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to pull content from a NAS or an external USB drive without requiring any computer whatsoever. Of course, I assume that you'll need a computer to add more stuff to your NAS, but who knows? Maybe you'll be able to connect to the iTS directly and send the content straight to the USB drive or NAS. Anyways, I'd be really disappointed if the iTV can't play your content without a computer.

Honestly though, it's Apple we're talking about! Do you think Steve would approve a product that requires the user to walk to another room to turn on a computer whenever he or she wants to listen to a few songs or watch some (downloaded) TV? Apple's been working on this one for a while, I think. It won't be everything to everyone, but it won't be that lame, I'm pretty sure.
 
Macnoviz said:
come again?

I'm not Joe average when it comes to computers, but you'll have to clarify that one (yes, I am too lazy to google and wikipedia (is that a verb? It is now !))
Click to expand...

citrix terminal services for windows allows clients to have a desktop environment on their client computer that runs entirely on the server. Citrix thin client machines are basically network access points that only run the thin client software so that while you are clicking, typing, and viewing on the terminal, everything is being processed on the server.

The application here would be that just as front row would pull media from a mac/pc in another room, you could click on something to pull up your desktop to check your mail from the livingroom. You could do work on your mac/pc from the livingroom if you wanted to. For those that would do the odd thing in the livingroom this would be a cheaper approach than having a mini in the livingroom as a second computer.
 
Having thought on the value of this device for the past couple of days, I think I've come around a bit.

It is a glorified wireless HDMI/digital audio link that also includes extensive iLife integration. Since I'm a mac user already, and pretty entrenched with iLife, I don't really have a problem with the tight systems integration. What it boils down to for me, is whether or not the iTV will stream higher resolution HD signals. If it can handle wireless 1080p or even 1080i streaming without significant compression (which I seriously doubt), then it's a STEAL for $299.

What's bugging me and it's bugged me about Microsoft and other companies for years, is that you're forced into Apple's world. It will only work with iTunes & Quicktime. 3rd party developers can't develop software that streams to the iTV, the same way that the iPod only works in iTunes. It's a very closed system.

I wanted an Apple DVR, there is no doubt that they could have done it better than anyone else. I'm sure I could build my own but it would never have the ease of use of my TiVo, and countless Apple products. iTV just missed the boat for this consumer.

If I'm going to have to "roll my own", then I don't want to be tied in to using iTunes/Quicktime. EDIT: I'm probably just going to get one of these DVI to HDMI cables instead of an overly expensive wireless option.
 
SiliconAddict said:
++ Let me add to that. I do Dell warrantee work and for all the people who bitch about Dell there are A LOT of people willing to deal with the headaches because of that $300-$400 price tag. Let’s not get into the whole "You get more with a Mac." That may be true but at the end of the day this is a Walmart world. Price is everything. And many if not most people will look for the cheapest (in price) computer they can find and that isn't a Mac.

PS- That being said I can't tell you how many people ask why as someone who is doing Dell work why I'm carrying a Mac around with me...Q&A's generally follow as I work on their Dell with their fried motherboard. :D
Click to expand...

C'mon, those Dells never end up costing $300-400. I mean, I guess they do if you get an optical drive that can only play CDs and 256MB of memory, and a 40GB hard drive, but I would guess that most people ultimately end up dissatisfied with these low end computers after a short while. You get what you pay for.
 
greenstork said:
3rd party developers can't develop software that streams to the iTV, the same way that the iPod only works in iTunes. It's a very closed system.
Click to expand...
The closed system didn't stop DVDJon from releasing JustePort or Rogue Amoeba from developing Airfoil for the Airport Express.

B
 
balamw said:
The closed system didn't stop DVDJon from releasing JustePort or Rogue Amoeba from developing Airfoil for the Airport Express.

B
Click to expand...

Yeah, and that so seamless (and ethical) for the average consumer, I think you're missing my point.

EDIT: I stand corrected with Airfoil, I'd never seen that before. Usually apple goes to great lengths to limit 3rd party developers access to their hardware, tying consumers in to the Apple system, closing APIs, etc.
 
greenstork said:
Yeah, and that so seamless (and ethical) for the average consumer, I think you're missing my point.
Click to expand...
And you mine. Airfoil is pretty seamless and allows you to play any audio through your airport express, including WMA. I believe they're just using the existing APIs, unlike DVD Jon. What's so unethical about that?

EDIT: Just saw your edit. No need to respond to the above.

For a closed system QT is actually quite open since Apple tends to adhere to existing standards and submit other things for consideration as standards, e.g. AAC and H.264 which are both part of the MPEG-4 standard, and there are many non-Apple tools to generate compatible files. Where are the third party WMA/WMV tools?

B
 
I only just watched the Keynote Stream (hey, I've been busy all week, cut me some slack!) and I was only moderately excited watching the thing before Steve previewed the "iTV" and then my excitement just went through the roof.

This really is an amazing and revolutionary product, I think. It's going to be like taking iTunes out of cyberspace and into the real world. I can't wait, I'm buying one!

I wonder though, since Steve didn't address this, but since the "iTV" does not have a DVD player built in, if you don't buy movies from iTunes, can you just put the DVD in whatever computer is connected to the "iTV" and stream it that way?

Questions, questions...
 
LaMerVipere said:
I only just watched the Keynote Stream (hey, I've been busy all week, cut me some slack!) and I was only moderately excited watching the thing before Steve previewed the "iTV" and then my excitement just went through the roof.

This really is an amazing and revolutionary product, I think. It's going to be like taking iTunes out of cyberspace and into the real world. I can't wait, I'm buying one!

I wonder though, since Steve didn't address this, but since the "iTV" does not have a DVD player built in, if you don't buy movies from iTunes, can you just put the DVD in whatever computer is connected to the "iTV" and stream it that way?

Questions, questions...
Click to expand...

I agree. That is an excellent question. I'd like to be able to do that as well. Reason being I only have 3 digital audio inputs, so having a DVD player and iTV would take up 2, and that sucks. :( 1 for both would be better. :)
 
All in all, I'm fairly dissapointed myself in the 'iTV' - it just doesn't have enough selling points for me. It is NOT revolutionary as some have posted. DVD/HDD combo's are fairly common now, and very affordable (bordering on the inexpensive) and open to almost anyone. Most come with their own PVR software and many come with ethernet connections. I'll be honest and say wireless is a lot less common and is a great advantage, but if I purchased said combo, it ticks so many boxes that the 'iTV' doesn't appear to at the moment. People have set up what the iTV already does through many different means, be it xbox with linux or their own system. What Apple are, and always do, is see something that is already done, but put it all in one simple box. Which has the advantage of appealing to those who aren't quite so tech savvy, and therefore seem 'revolutionary'.

I almost question why call it iTV at all? Since the interaction with TV services seems so limited. However, what would be great, is the iTV recording a TV show, and then streaming it straight to your Mac harddrive! But with Apple's penchant for DRM, I can't really seeing it happen much from them. Who's to say the box can't be modded to do so, but if the iTV could record and save to a Mac wirelessly, and playback on your set, I would definately be swayed back into the buying camp! :p

Anyway, the iTV also reminded me of something I played with in one of those 'post your concept' threads here at mac rumours. Mine came with a DVD player, inbuilt HDD and new remote... lol ^_^

 
I like the concept-if it was self contained or you could hook it up to a stand alone hard disk.

To me a computer is a pretty nasty tool, you need by necessity to say work on. access the internet with, read/send emails. Its prone to getting viruses and crashing (even our imac does just as frequently as our windows XP machine) and if you have windows updates or anti virus software then the computer is quite likely to restart itself at unexpected times. So you could be watching something on an iTV and then there is a security patch update for windows and in the crucial scene everything goes blank. No way.

This happened when I had a party and had hooked up itunes to my main stereo. Worked brilliantly until I had an update then everything stopped for about 15 minutes!

Self contained its a brilliant idea though
 
Here's a distilled wishlist from everyone, that I think is reasonable and remotely possible:

- Hooks up to external USB 2 hard drive, so can directly access content without computer present (brought laptop to work).

- Hooks up directly to iPod via USB. So it could act just like the A/V Dock.

- Hooks up to external USB DVD drive, so can play movies from living room without having to go to computer room. Also, not every TV has a bazillion high end inputs, so not everyone can hookup a DVD player and an iTV to their TV.

- Have an open API so that it would be possible for Elgato to make a tuner that could tie into this. First thing would be for broadcasts to share the A/V hookups and use the iTV remote for changing channels, but second thing would be for saving video back to the computer hard drive. It's be cool if you could hookup a USB hub, and have the iTV record the Elgato captured to stuff to a connected hard drive or DVD burner.
 
MagicWok said:
All in all, I'm fairly dissapointed myself in the 'iTV' - it just doesn't have enough selling points for me. It is NOT revolutionary as some have posted. DVD/HDD combo's are fairly common now, and very affordable (bordering on the inexpensive) and open to almost anyone. Most come with their own PVR software and many come with ethernet connections. I'll be honest and say wireless is a lot less common and is a great advantage, but if I purchased said combo, it ticks so many boxes that the 'iTV' doesn't appear to at the moment. People have set up what the iTV already does through many different means, be it xbox with linux or their own system. What Apple are, and always do, is see something that is already done, but put it all in one simple box. Which has the advantage of appealing to those who aren't quite so tech savvy, and therefore seem 'revolutionary'.

I almost question why call it iTV at all? Since the interaction with TV services seems so limited. However, what would be great, is the iTV recording a TV show, and then streaming it straight to your Mac harddrive! But with Apple's penchant for DRM, I can't really seeing it happen much from them. Who's to say the box can't be modded to do so, but if the iTV could record and save to a Mac wirelessly, and playback on your set, I would definately be swayed back into the buying camp! :p

Anyway, the iTV also reminded me of something I played with in one of those 'post your concept' threads here at mac rumours. Mine came with a DVD player, inbuilt HDD and new remote... lol ^_^

Click to expand...

Do you see into the future or something? Another stupid post making declarative statements about the "iTv" flaws when the product specs aren't even remotely finalized.
The "glass half empty" crowd. So boring.

Okay you're disappointed. Now go away.
 
Come on folks.Think!!

This thing has a USB 2.0 port and an Ethernet port..

Now what would/could connect to those ports?

Hard Drives

Mini's

Satellite/Cable set-top boxes


With the advent of wireless almost everywhere do folks really think the ethernet is seriously going to be used to connect a computer 3 rooms away?


Think..
This unit has a LOT of potential that we will realize around the time Leopard comes out.
 
Peace said:
This thing has a USB 2.0 port and an Ethernet port..
Click to expand...
I share your hopes, however:

My DirecTivo and Samsung HDTV both have USB ports, but on the TiVo DirecTV never activated the port. And on the TV it's not officially useful for anything and is labeled "service".

B
 
balamw said:
I share your hopes, however:

My DirecTivo and Samsung HDTV both have USB ports, but on the TiVo DirecTV never activated the port. And on the TV it's not officially useful for anything and is labeled "service".

B
Click to expand...

You really think that Apple would include a non-activated USB port? :p
 
LaMerVipere said:
This really is an amazing and revolutionary product, I think. It's going to be like taking iTunes out of cyberspace and into the real world. I can't wait, I'm buying one!
Click to expand...

It's really not revolutionary at all. Devices have been doing this sort of thing since 2001. Look into UPnP. I worked for a company that was doing this from 2002-2006. Even ElGato in the Mac world has been doing this for quite some time. But hey, it's new to you, so it's "amazing and revolutionary", right?

LaMerVipere said:
I wonder though, since Steve didn't address this, but since the "iTV" does not have a DVD player built in, if you don't buy movies from iTunes, can you just put the DVD in whatever computer is connected to the "iTV" and stream it that way?

Questions, questions...

powerbook911 said:
I agree. That is an excellent question. I'd like to be able to do that as well. Reason being I only have 3 digital audio inputs, so having a DVD player and iTV would take up 2, and that sucks. :( 1 for both would be better. :)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It's a technologically cool thing to do, but I think the answer would be "no" because of legal reasons (my old company looked into this). The problem is that to stream from your DVD the transport stream or program stream, you would need to decrypt the stream from the disc, which is not legal. Only the DVD player is allowed to decrypt from the disc so you can't pass keys and let the iTV decrypt. Therefore the machine with the disc would have to decrypt the disc and send unencrypted streams over your network, which is essentially ripping the DVD. And I'm sure the MPAA won't be very happy about that.

That's why you haven't seen products doing this sort of thing, my company thought of it 4 years ago. I know of someone resurrecting the idea with a networked DVD jukebox who is negotiating the legality right now... The only thing that's changed is that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are here with ludicrous levels of encryption, so they might not care so much about DVD anymore.

The one loophole I know of is this -- Philips has a UPnP server called "Streamium" that exists on both PC and Mac. It can send the DVD if the source is unencrypted... "Legally" meaning a DVD you authored or one that has no encryption. The rest is left up to the imaginative reader who might have something like <cough> AnyDVD <cough>.
 
Peace said:
Come on folks.Think!!

This thing has a USB 2.0 port and an Ethernet port..

Now what would/could connect to those ports?

Hard Drives

Mini's

Satellite/Cable set-top boxes


With the advent of wireless almost everywhere do folks really think the ethernet is seriously going to be used to connect a computer 3 rooms away?


Think..
This unit has a LOT of potential that we will realize around the time Leopard comes out.
Click to expand...

USB port = plug your iPod into it and sync with iTunes without having to go to the computer. Also frineds can bring their iPod round - plug it in - and you can all watch the movies they have downloaded.

Perhaps allow USB keyboard and mouse to be plugged in and remotly access your Mac to surf the net and look at your e-mail.
 
EyeTV2 & Elgato Tuners Take Off Air Antenna & Cable Direct Changes Channels Like Tivo

slu said:
Elgato is OK. Until it is able to change channels on my digital cable box like my TiVo can, there is no a chance in hell of me ever buying one.
Click to expand...
My understanding of Elgato is this:

The whole idea of Elgato is for off air recording AND direct connect the cable to the EyeTV 500 or hybrid tuner. You don't need a Cable Box with Elgato. It does change channels like Tivo when you have it hooked up direct.

I only have experience with the off air recording capabilities of the EyeTV2 + 500 tuner system and I love it.
 
Does anyone else think that $300 (or £200+) is too much for what is a glorified WiFi module with a few ports on the back? You can buy a core 360 for the same price which includes real hardware. Surely $200 would be a much more realistic price?
 
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