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Apple Publishes FAQ to Address Concerns About CSAM Detection and Messages Scanning
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This is wrong move.period
People will never have privacy on iPhone,simple as that.
No matter what Apple claims,this opens doors to all kind of spyware and surveillance.
People will never have privacy on iPhone,simple as that.
No matter what Apple claims,this opens doors to all kind of spyware and surveillance.
You’re looking at the problem with human eyes and not computer eyes.
”Similarity” in human terms (even if said human is looking at the bare pixels) has got nothing to do with what this PhotoDNA-style hashes are doing. You can’t fool them the way you’re thinking in human terms.
Not sure what else to say.
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Not sure I have alternatives more than emails to Tim and my representatives, and comments in public forums like this.
That still doesn’t explain how a severely modified image can produce a match per apples claims. I can make a subject look 90 years old and the hulk in photoshop. But that’s still a match? How? If a picture differs that drastically is still a match, how is it impossible for an adult in a bathtub to not get flagged?
Are you saying it’s impossible for us to understand since we are humans? Then why am I getting all this hate when ALL I am asking is for some damn help understanding.
Have those other companies been championing themselves as the purveyors of privacy for the masses? Selling it as a bedrock principle for their products and services? Could it possibly be that Apple has set expectations for themselves that when broken cause backlash? We can't possibly be expected to suspend context.
Oh, and as my preteens keep using the "everyone else is doing it" excuse I'll be sure to remember the advice from many here.
Okay...again...in order to modify an innocent image enough to look like an image in the child pornography database, YOU WOULD NEED SAID ILLEGAL IMAGE.
The odds of winning the Powerball lottery area bout 1 in 300 million on any given drawing on average. The odds of you having in your possession more than one photo that is nearly identical to one in the database and getting flagged for review is one in one trillion....You are over 3,000 times more likely to win a major lottery than get flagged for review (and even then, assuming you don't possess actual child porn, nothing will happen!!)
Apple already stated prior to this FAQ that they can tailor the system, customized on per country basis. And that's Apple talking by themselves, literally advertising the system to governments worldwide. Nobody asked this, there was no legal pressure or anything on Apple. Apple just suddenly stated that they're doing this and "hey world governments, we can customize this to your needs."
I'm really really curious what Tim Cook got during that Sun Valley summer camp.
Just stop already...you have no idea what you are talking about....it's okay to not understand how.
I have heard this story before... "We are putting this new technology / law / procedure in place but it will ONLY be used for one narrow, extremely limited, noble, and crucial purpose... for now".
A few years ago many states started passing laws that authorized collecting DNA samples from people convicted of felonies such as rape and murder. Then the laws were changed to collect DNA from people arrested for felonies (some of whom later had the charges dropped due to lack of evidence). Laws were then changed again to collect DNA from anyone arrested for anything "because non-violent offenders today may become violent offenders tomorrow." Keep in mind, in most states, the DNA data is never purged from the database even if the charges are dropped or the jury acquits the suspect. I know, police would never arrest anyone unless they were guilty (even if the prosecutor drops the charges) and since they are guilty they shouldn't have any rights so this is probably a bad example of the "nose under the tent" phenomenon /s.
academic.oup.com
There was also a time when cell tower data was only used for violent felonies to find out what devices (and presumably the owners of those devices) were in the vicinity of the crime scene around the time the crime was taking place. The bar has been repeatedly lowered so now cell tower data is routinely used for non-violent crimes and it has led to innocent people being arrested for riding their bike past a home while it was being burglarized.
www.nbcnews.com
But I am SURE this time will be different and Apple's new "features" will NEVER be used for anything other than what they explained in this FAQ. No three-letter government agency would EVER serve Apple with a National Security letter and a gag order demanding they use this technology to scan for anything else.
A few years ago many states started passing laws that authorized collecting DNA samples from people convicted of felonies such as rape and murder. Then the laws were changed to collect DNA from people arrested for felonies (some of whom later had the charges dropped due to lack of evidence). Laws were then changed again to collect DNA from anyone arrested for anything "because non-violent offenders today may become violent offenders tomorrow." Keep in mind, in most states, the DNA data is never purged from the database even if the charges are dropped or the jury acquits the suspect. I know, police would never arrest anyone unless they were guilty (even if the prosecutor drops the charges) and since they are guilty they shouldn't have any rights so this is probably a bad example of the "nose under the tent" phenomenon /s.
Inside the Cell: The Dark Side of Forensic DNA
In recent years, several forms of previously accepted forensic science have come under scrutiny as unreliable or simply unsound.1 For instance, the science
There was also a time when cell tower data was only used for violent felonies to find out what devices (and presumably the owners of those devices) were in the vicinity of the crime scene around the time the crime was taking place. The bar has been repeatedly lowered so now cell tower data is routinely used for non-violent crimes and it has led to innocent people being arrested for riding their bike past a home while it was being burglarized.
Google tracked his bike ride past a burglarized home. That made him a suspect.
"I was using an app to see how many miles I rode my bike and now it was putting me at the scene of the crime," the man said.
www.nbcnews.com
But I am SURE this time will be different and Apple's new "features" will NEVER be used for anything other than what they explained in this FAQ. No three-letter government agency would EVER serve Apple with a National Security letter and a gag order demanding they use this technology to scan for anything else.
People do realise that companies such as Google, Adobe, Facebook et. al already use some form of automated technology to scan for and detect CSAM? Adobe does it with Creative Cloud:
Child Safety
Adobe’s commitment to keeping children safe online and fighting the spread of child sexual abuse material.www.adobe.com
That's just one example.
They scan shared documents and provide tools to help organizations fight CSAM. Apple is taking this to a whole other level.
I’m tired of the noise that makes a very important discussion (about what can be done vs what should be done) fade against a backdrop of low signal to noise ratio and buzzwords.
What an ignorant response.
it’s sad (and disgusting) that so many MacRumors readers support child exploitation. I hope none of you have young siblings or children.
I don’t make irrational decisions - so initially after the news, I didn’t have any plans to change how I am as an Apple customer Lol.
Okay so just no discussion at all? I can’t learn I should just stop? Right? Great attitudes these forums lately. Please explain it to me. I read the white paper, watched videos, listened to podcasts. What else do you expect me to do? I’m asking people more knowledgeable for help understanding. But I guess asking for help is not good in today’s world.
It’s not illegal to have images of illegal activity - it is illegal to possess child pornography.
Not necessarily. The original picture could be on someone’s pc with photoshop and the edited version is what “gets out there”. Then that version might get put in the database and another heavily modified version gets made.
I wanted to capture the first input from “the mob” where they shift from a technical attack to a personal one.
It pre-scans on your device just as a courtesy to both you and them, then it wraps the results of the scan into an impossible-to-crack cryptographic vault than can only be opened if 2 things happen
1) you upload the pics to their servers (so the scan being on-device is MOOT, like the sound of a tree falling in a forest if nobody is listening)
2) you score multiple matching kiddie p0rn hashes
No human in this universe can look into those security vouchers if these 2 things don’t both happen.
Not sure about parallel universes, metaverses and multiverses.
And that's the only sane way to act: evaluate new data, investigate further if needed, summarize outcomes, update your knowledge base, and then decide how to proceed.
ad 1. Yes, (technical) parts of the process are new. That in itself does not eliminate all the risks involved.
ad 2. "Better" way does not mean that no misuse can take place (by authoritarian gov´s) to get rid of unwanted
people like critics, journalists, opposition etc.
ad 3. Yes. Does Apple also explain how they want to fight requests and oppression from non-democratic countries? How do they plan to react on market bans in case of non-compliance to i.e. "expanded neural hash database entries" supplied to be included?
ad 4. Oh, sure. What a nightmare then! Be aware, we are not talking about missing headphone jacks, ARM based laptops, missing USB or Firewire or optical drives (or a single button mice, hehe).
Clearly don't understand the concept of people having a "reasonable expectation of privacy".
