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Isn't this the very definition of "racism"? Did you know that Afro-Americans can get into Harvard University with a 450 points lower SAT score than an Asian-American, and about 370 points lower than a White person. American Universities and corporations are actually discriminating against the most talented people and ethnic groups in the name of political correctness.

Always cracks me up that the people who get bent out of shape about Harvard's acceptance process act like they've somehow been harmed by it.

The SAT is not a magic path to entry, it's but one measure of qualification. Harvard looks at test scores, transcripts and the individual to create the best environment for students to learn. Nobody wants a classroom full of white males with top scores. They want a mix of students so that they can learn from each other through debate and discourse. White candidates with lower-than average SAT scores also get in if they can somehow balance that. But you need to get over the notion that a desire to bring diverse students in somehow means that they aren't qualified.
 
1. Hiring on merit.

2. Publishing figures that demonstrate people of merit can be from a more diverse range of backgrounds than have historically been given equal hiring opportunities.

These are not mutually exclusive concepts. Neither are they in opposition.
 
I think it's disgusting to even consider anything other than a candidates merit, when deciding on who to hire.

The issue in the past has been that unconscious bias in favor of considering "looks like me" as part of "merit" has made it harder for qualified women and minorities to get past that unrecognized filter.

For quite awhile after passage of our employment laws looking to make good on "equal opportunity," many firms have continued to elide the problem of unconscious filtering out of people who don't "look like us" when hiring people. Now we're not dodging the issue so much any more. Why? Because it became clear that the laws weren't enough. Because our minds and maybe our hearts didn't capture the spirit of the laws. We're better than our track record. That's what Apple's saying, taking it out from behind the HR walls and showing the world ok here's what we do, here's where we are, we're trying, we're making progress.

Now we're talking about it, and really trying to change up how we hire, and a lot of people are practically up in arms about it. And they are, predictably, white and fairly often but not always male as well. I chalk a lot of that up to discomfort with change, not necessarily to overt racism or sexism.

Even good change makes us uncomfortable at first.

That's the thing about institutional prejudice, it's not necessarily overt, aggressive, even conscious. It's just there. It's there because it's "always" been there, like that S curve out on County 14 that used to go around someone's outbuildings in the 19th century. Most of us are comfortable with it only because we had to get comfortable with gearing down to 30 or ending up in some guy's pine trees. Someday someone will get killed taking those things at 55 and then they'll take down the 30 signs and call in the engineers... well the USA called in the engineers in 1965 because enough of the country was finally uncomfortable always gearing down for those S curves that kept good people from advancing --or getting hired for a good job to begin with-- and we're still trying to build a better road.

Our brains are lazy, they can make us like things the way they are. But we're in charge, right? It's ok to be uncomfortable in service of getting used to the dash on a new car, though, eh? We can see the benefit. Otherwise why get the new car? Well, it's also ok to be uncomfortable while getting used to trying to identify and ditch those filters we may have stashed away on who's "meritorious" of getting hired when we need to staff up. The benefit is making the most of our human potential sooner than we may be doing now.

There’s a reason engineering firms may still shuffle resumés looking for STEM-qualified kids who grew up on a farm and were handing their dad the right size wrench from the time they were big enough to be trusted not to eat the stuff in the toolbox. They got that 3-D wiring activated in their brains when their brains were most receptive to development of capacity to understand spatial relationships. There’s absolutely no reason to pass by a resumé like that if the kid happens to have been a girl. Unless…. she doesn’t look like a guy?
 
I think it's disgusting to even consider anything other than a candidates merit, when deciding on who to hire.
I entirely agree with you.

That said, society is not designed to give everyone an equal opportunity at achieving the same merit. So, it looks like Apple is actively trying to adapt to that systemic flaw, with the added benefit of including a diverse set of essential perspectives that can aid product development.
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The issue in the past has been that unconscious bias in favor of considering "looks like me" as part of "merit" has made it harder for qualified women and minorities to get past that unrecognized filter.

For quite awhile after passage of our employment laws looking to make good on "equal opportunity," many firms have continued to elide the problem of unconscious filtering out of people who don't "look like us" when hiring people. Now we're not dodging the issue so much any more. Why? Because it became clear that the laws weren't enough. Because our minds and maybe our hearts didn't capture the spirit of the laws. We're better than our track record. That's what Apple's saying, taking it out from behind the HR walls and showing the world ok here's what we do, here's where we are, we're trying, we're making progress.

Now we're talking about it, and really trying to change up how we hire, and a lot of people are practically up in arms about it. And they are, predictably, white and fairly often but not always male as well. I chalk a lot of that up to discomfort with change, not necessarily to overt racism or sexism.

Even good change makes us uncomfortable at first.

That's the thing about institutional prejudice, it's not necessarily overt, aggressive, even conscious. It's just there. It's there because it's "always" been there, like that S curve out on County 14 that used to go around someone's outbuildings in the 19th century. Most of us are comfortable with it only because we had to get comfortable with gearing down to 30 or ending up in some guy's pine trees. Someday someone will get killed taking those things at 55 and then they'll take down the 30 signs and call in the engineers... well the USA called in the engineers in 1965 because enough of the country was finally uncomfortable always gearing down for those S curves that kept good people from advancing --or getting hired for a good job to begin with-- and we're still trying to build a better road.

Our brains are lazy, they can make us like things the way they are. But we're in charge, right? It's ok to be uncomfortable in service of getting used to the dash on a new car, though, eh? We can see the benefit. Otherwise why get the new car? Well, it's also ok to be uncomfortable while getting used to trying to identify and ditch those filters we may have stashed away on who's "meritorious" of getting hired when we need to staff up. The benefit is making the most of our human potential sooner than we may be doing now.

There’s a reason engineering firms may still shuffle resumés looking for STEM-qualified kids who grew up on a farm and were handing their dad the right size wrench from the time they were big enough to be trusted not to eat the stuff in the toolbox. They got that 3-D wiring activated in their brains when their brains were most receptive to development of capacity to understand spatial relationships. There’s absolutely no reason to pass by a resumé like that if the kid happens to have been a girl. Unless…. she doesn’t look like a guy?
LK, I like the way you think. Well said.
 
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Why are americans so obsessed with those statistics. I dont think i ever ran across a paper asking me „what i am“ here. Meanwhile first paper i had to sign in the US had a ethnicity question in it.

Feels like those separate people more than bring them together

Because black people were brought here as slaves and systemically disenfranchised over a long period of time. It matters.
 
Why are americans so obsessed with those statistics. I dont think i ever ran across a paper asking me „what i am“ here. Meanwhile first paper i had to sign in the US had a ethnicity question in it.

Feels like those separate people more than bring them together
America has a dark history of using race to divide, oppress, and give some groups advantages over others. Particularly in regards to black Americans. Being natural born American citizens for centuries but being denied access to things like education and non-menial jobs up until about 50 years ago means there’s a lot of catching up to do so things like this are in place to help facilitate and speed up the process by ensuring opportunity is given.
 
As a shareholder in Apple I don't give a flying you know what about diversity, inclusion, or any of those nonsense SJW buzzwords. I want Apple to hire the most qualified people. Be them White, Black, Pink, Purple, from the USA, Russia, Germany, Antarctica, or Mars.
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Look at it this way, let's say you relocate to Sweden and learn to speak the language perfectly (never mind that Swede's generally speak better English than Americans). You then apply for 20 jobs that are perfectly suited to your qualifications but are rejected every single time because the Swedish interviewer gives it to a Swedish-born candidate. You'd be fine with that?


Sure. I'm an outsider and will have to work harder than a native. Nothing in life is easy - much takes lots of hard work and perseverance to make it work. Someone will find my value and hire me - may not be my first choice but there will be opportunity.

But I guess hard work is gone in this day and age of participation trophies and a sense of entitlement.

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Because black people were brought here as slaves and systemically disenfranchised over a long period of time. It matters.

Since slavery has been in nearly every country in the world at some point in history, is that a uniquely American thing or did other cultures that have slaves treat those the same after they were freed?
 
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Why does everyone assume they're passing up qualified white candidates in favor of unqualified minorities????? There's nothing to suggest that's happening.

This is a corporation's way of ensuring that the world inside its doors looks the same as the world outside its doors. You're all too ready to assume that Apple was a lot whiter before because it was only looking at qualified candidates. Maybe it was because all the people making hiring decisions were white and could relate more easily to white candidates.

Look at it this way, let's say you relocate to Sweden and learn to speak the language perfectly (never mind that Swede's generally speak better English than Americans). You then apply for 20 jobs that are perfectly suited to your qualifications but are rejected every single time because the Swedish interviewer gives it to a Swedish-born candidate. You'd be fine with that?
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So the woman in that picture is a terrorist and shouldn't be employed? WTF is your point?
Actually, that's exactly what it is under the law. When you employ a population the size of Apple's workforce then the EEOC will absolutely take an interest if you fail to reflect a diverse workforce.
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The law only requires that you hire in representative numbers. There are absolutely fields where 3% women is normal due to the available pool of skilled candidates. The problem arises when you see huge disparities with no obvious explanation other than selection bias.


Pretty sure you need to check your facts on that one.

https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/
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Why does everyone assume they're passing up qualified white candidates in favor of unqualified minorities????? There's nothing to suggest that's happening.

This is a corporation's way of ensuring that the world inside its doors looks the same as the world outside its doors. You're all too ready to assume that Apple was a lot whiter before because it was only looking at qualified candidates. Maybe it was because all the people making hiring decisions were white and could relate more easily to white candidates.

Look at it this way, let's say you relocate to Sweden and learn to speak the language perfectly (never mind that Swede's generally speak better English than Americans). You then apply for 20 jobs that are perfectly suited to your qualifications but are rejected every single time because the Swedish interviewer gives it to a Swedish-born candidate. You'd be fine with that?
[doublepost=1510264885][/doublepost]

So the woman in that picture is a terrorist and shouldn't be employed? WTF is your point?
Why does everyone assume they're passing up qualified white candidates in favor of unqualified minorities????? There's nothing to suggest that's happening.

This is a corporation's way of ensuring that the world inside its doors looks the same as the world outside its doors. You're all too ready to assume that Apple was a lot whiter before because it was only looking at qualified candidates. Maybe it was because all the people making hiring decisions were white and could relate more easily to white candidates.

Look at it this way, let's say you relocate to Sweden and learn to speak the language perfectly (never mind that Swede's generally speak better English than Americans). You then apply for 20 jobs that are perfectly suited to your qualifications but are rejected every single time because the Swedish interviewer gives it to a Swedish-born candidate. You'd be fine with that?
[doublepost=1510264885][/doublepost]

So the woman in that picture is a terrorist and shouldn't be employed? WTF is your point?


I think the main thing he is getting at is that you should google Sharia Law and see in your own opinion if you think it is compatible with America and its values.
 
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As a shareholder in Apple I don't give a flying you know what about diversity, inclusion, or any of those nonsense SJW buzzwords. I want Apple to hire the most qualified people. Be them White, Black, Pink, Purple, from the USA, Russia, Germany, Antarctica, or Mars.
[doublepost=1510278443][/doublepost]

Since slavery has been in nearly every country in the world at some point in history, is that a uniquely American thing or did other cultures that have slaves treat those the same after they were freed?

No. Not concerned with other cultures and comparing impacts of slavery. In the United States where I'm from there was a system of forced labor which enriched certain groups. Over time, even with the abolishment of slavery, that head start and the ensuing systemic oppressions afforded opportunities regardless of qualification. I am of the opinion that it still has impact today and implementing programs and tracking to counteract it is a net positive.
 
Why are americans so obsessed with those statistics. I dont think i ever ran across a paper asking me „what i am“ here. Meanwhile first paper i had to sign in the US had a ethnicity question in it.

Feels like those separate people more than bring them together

And yet the left in this country keeps shoving race, sex, gender, you name it in everyone’s face. They are obsessed with it and as a political party, it pays dividends because stoking such divisions drives their base to vote out of anger and resentment, both of which are effective motivators. The Democrat party knows this and that’s why they keep fanning the flames. As such half of my generation (millennials) have become walking micro aggression victims.

Last week I was witness to a string of FB posts among good friends wherein their friend (a loose acquaintance of mine, and is a far left liberal) was advocating the merit of reverse discrimination towards white people (and he himself is white). I kid you not. He was literally arguing it is morally right to discriminate if it means fairness (a subjective term, I might add). Madness.
 
Actually, that's what you do say. If you have 130,000 employees and they're overwhelmingly white then you're doing something wrong. Period. You don't have to hire a black person for every white person you hire, but you need to ensure that you're hiring fairly. So if 10% of the qualified marketplace is Asian and your workforce is only at 2% (making numbers up here) then you need to ask yourself why there's a disparity.
Really? All you have to look at is skin color and if it's overwhelmingly white, you are doing something wrong, period? Regardless of any other criteria? What about education, experience, qualifications, performance? In your opinion, should any of those things matter to a company like Apple? I would say yes. If 10% of the qualified marketplace is Asian it doesn't mean 10% of qualified candidates that apply to work there are going to be Asian.
 
Let them continue to build their little echo chamber of "diversity". You are free to share your opinion only if it fits in with their leftist agenda.
 
This is one part of Apple that is so very wrong. It is racist, sexist, and also just plain discriminatory.
The best people should get the job, regardless of their gender, race, religion and any other similar factors.

Apple's push towards discrimination as shown here is toxic and very harmful to the industry. It will lead to the best workers not getting the job because of diversity quotas.

Apple's by doing this is showing how very discriminatory it's hiring practices really are. The sad part is Tim Cook can't sven see that this is discrimination. He is blind to the fact. This is one of many reasons why I think Tim Cook is a terrible CEO at Apple and I have zero respect for him.
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If you get tens or even hundreds of applicants for the same position with roughly identical credentials, as is often the case in many STEM fields, then whom do you hire?
The people that will best fit into the group. Also as a employer it's your job to find the best eprson for the job and not make excuses like "roughly identical candidates". If you can't choose then just toss a coin or something. That's better than using discrimination to choose the candidate.
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As a shareholder in Apple I don't give a flying you know what about diversity, inclusion, or any of those nonsense SJW buzzwords. I want Apple to hire the most qualified people. Be them White, Black, Pink, Purple, from the USA, Russia, Germany, Antarctica, or Mars
Tim Cook does not share your love for equality. He is pushing hard for this kind of diversity quota discrimination.
 
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Perhaps this whole diversity thing related to Apple's poor quality of software of late.

Maybe this is exactly what happens when you hire people based on their gender or skin colour rather than their ability and skillset - your product quality decreases.

And then when you point this out, you are called an 'xxxxx-ist' and sacked from your job.

Eventually the incompetents rule the roost, and the company nose dives.
 
Meanwhile first paper i had to sign in the US had a ethnicity question in it.

Feels like those separate people more than bring them together

It's called divide-and-conquer, it's the globalist elite's agenda in the USA. And the culture-pushers in the media here are 100% on board.
 
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Sure thing. It's been proven that resumés with "black sounding" names frequently get discarded before they're even looked at to see if they meet qualifications. But hey, merit, right?

If it’s been proven, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind providing said proof.
 
And here’s me thinking the only thing that should matter when applying for a job is merit.

But who needs skills and talent when you’re a trans non-white [religion] person?

As a straight white male I'm sick of this ****. It wasn’t right to racially discriminate against someone 50 years ago, it’s sure as hell isnt OK to discriminate against someone in 2017.

I’ll always put down as many ‘special minority’ box ticks as I can when doing a corporate questionnaire now. More likely to get hired if they think I’m gay or a minority. **** Apple and every racist company like them. It’s ******** like this that causes people to vote for bizarre presidents etc.

This is not how you end racism, this is how you make it 100 times worse.
 
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Because black people were brought here as slaves and systemically disenfranchised over a long period of time. It matters.

Beware, i am just throwing around numbers here. I dont actually know the actual percentage but lets say

60 % of a country is white
30% are black
of those 30% only 10% may be interested in a certain area

Isnt it obvious to have a way higher percentage of white people??
 
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