Apple Pulls out of NAB 2008

[Intarweb]

Apple has historically released new products at NAB such as Final Cut Studio (April 2007) and the first 17-inch MacBook Pro (April 2006). I wonder if this means that products Apple usually releases at NAB will be released earlier (hopefully not later! )

I just want them to release a functional Compressor 3.

 

[docwisdom]

Who gives a flying $%^&*( about the apple retail stores and Apple.com.

NAB gives PROFESSIONALS a chance to check out new gear and to pick the brains of the geeks a little bit. I would love to see someone try to go to an apple store and ask questions about Xserve and fiber channel and render clusters. It would be hilarious.
I was really hoping to hear about Final Cut Server at NAB this year. I guess its just vaporware for now. (As for the website saying early 2008. Apple has been saying that since NAB 07 and I doubt you will even see it then)

Yes, apple spent a %&^-load of money on their booth last year, but it was the largest aside from Sony and Avid. They could at least show up with a smaller booth, rather than drop out completely.

Apple is sucking up to the dumbass consumer way to much.

 

[Mindflux]

Those pullouts are always tricky. I personally try and go for the face after pulling out.

 

[fcpguy]

Steve, with this move it appears that you have abandoned the professional field. As of now things appear that apple is focused on the consumer market and 'business' market with the iphone & airbook.
(The iphone not prime for business yet, no 3G, and other issues, so your shooting yourself in the foot there also.)

What happened at PMA? No update to Aperture?
No show of commitment to the products you make. The trade shows are a good time to at least show your commitment and not leave people guessing if you have lost interest and just are 'focused' (if you can call it that) on airbooks and iphones.

Now NAB, no show? Avid, Media 100 gonna eat you for lunch if your not careful Apple. Arrogance will not suite you well. Yes you are reaching a market that doesnt even go to NAB, but at the same time you cant forget your roots. This at least keeps open and shows your commitment to these segments.

Even with the macbook pros.
Intel released updates (Penryn/Santarosa) and you cant even update/refresh the books? No clue, no word...just a lot of 'air'.

Used to you could blame IBM...not whats your game?
And what of the Pros who waited over a year for an update for the Mac Pros.

apple, oh dear apple.
Steve dont forget the Leopard you released late and still cant get 10.5.2 out of the door. That is a release that fixes the buggy introduction that you called a major update in software.

Be clear, dont be shy. If your about iphones and a bunch of hot air, just say so. Discreet has a nice line up. (you messed up there not buying Maya, now we have a monopoly in 3D as they own Maya and Max.)

Well, I will end the 'rant' here.

If you are committed, and you have other ways of showing it...then be clear about it. But your apple stores? Please remember international expat dont have access to your stores...only wanna be apples stores that dont offer the same experience.

Your website...How do you confirm your stance in the pro market with the web? Do you have on going training, etc? Or is it a store with a product and a movie about how the out dated product works?

Oh, you killed shake - did you ever replace it. Not even a hint at NAB.
Now I may have missed such announcement, but it doesnt seem so.

So whats up again? Trying to show you are above and separated from the rest of the world. Not participating in their games? There are different ways to view things, not sure this is the most beneficial way Steve.

You may think your iphone is hip and cool. The fact is, its missing quite a bit of stuff. Why cant you have a true GPA built into it and the ipod touch? You have a premium $ but not a premium product.

peace

dAlen

Holy cow you people need to settle down. As much as I am disappointed with apple pulling out of NAB as well this isn't the end of the world or the pro market.
Anyone who knows the "pro" video market knows that post facilities and the like do not upgrade every year unless equipment is getting old or there is something so compelling they must have it. Stability is key in the post production world, so if it ain't broke and it does everything you need then don't fix it. Schedules are designed in such a way that there is very little time allocated for computer/software malfunctions. In fact many productions simply rent their equipment from rental places that use equipment that is years old...I personally know people who work on very high end reality shows that still cut on G4 OS 9 AVID's!!!
NAB for Apple is really designed for the FCP suite, media management and high end graphics/compositing suits. Apeture, monitors and the like have no business being introduced there...in fact, the only reason the 17' was released a few years back at NAB was because they needed to show FCP working on a portable intel machine.
Trust me when I say Apple is not abandoning their pro market....they are simply saying, why spend millions and millions of dollars to show what we showed last year, especially since AVID will not be there either. It makes zero sense for them. FCP server isn't ready, there's no new FCP suite and no reason to make a big to do about nothing. AVID is basically saying the same thing. And please the Media 100 isn't going to eat anyone's lunch, nor is premier...no one out here uses either of those for serious professional work.
I find posts like this and the guy who said I am going to switch platforms very annoying and arrogant because it shows a true lack of understanding about what NAB is all about and how people in the pro video world react to technological changes. Most of the time, it takes years for post houses to upgrade, so stuff we saw at NAB last year is still not totally making it way into daily use. The bottom line is some of you need to just settle down and stop reading so much into things. And if you so convinced apple is some how personally shunning you then go ahead and switch platforms to teach them a lesson....good luck finding work though!

 

[KillTheBunny]

I hope this isn't due to Apple being bored with the pro markets.

Well at least one guy(blogger) claims its a done deal. FCP etc is sold according to some..... I'll take my grain of salt now

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/fcapria/story/apple_avid_and_nab/

"Word on the street is that Apple has been shopping ProApps around since late last summer, and a deal was close last fall. Now such rumors have reached a fevered pitch, with ProApps apparently sold with all but the final announcement to be made. Potential buyers include Thompson, which has been on an acquisition spree of late, and would love to add an industrial strength NLE to its newsroom offerings.
No one will speak on the record for attribution. Until then anything can happen, but sources say morale in the ProApps group is low. Key members of the team have been moved to consumer-focused products like iMovie. Others have begun preparing for life after Apple.
If this is the case, Apple has little reason to throw a party for ProApps, and lopping a few million from the expense column makes the unit a lot more attractive to a buyer."

 

[Tosser]

I find posts like this and the guy who said I am going to switch platforms very annoying and arrogant because it shows a true lack of understanding about what NAB is all about and how people in the pro video world react to technological changes.

Get over yourself, you're accusing me of being arrogant, and telling me I lack a "true understanding" of NAB, when you utterly miss that NAB is more than video. If it haven't occured to you, NAB is audio too. NAB is ENG as well (look it up), and that includes radio and what else we have on the audio front. You're the arrogant bloke here, not realising that the next time one has to invest in tools, the seemingly shift of focus to cnsumer products while apparently ignoring the pro set will be a huge part of the decision making. You don't think the Beeb or The Danish Broadcast Corporation or other like them decide to get their support and their products from an Apple Store, do you?

Most of the time, it takes years for post houses to upgrade, so stuff we saw at NAB last year is still not totally making it way into daily use. The bottom line is some of you need to just settle down and stop reading so much into things.

Stupid argumentation. That argument would only work if you had a very (VERY) limited number of users, and you weren't interested in future customers. See, not everyone upgraded last year. Customers come and go. In essense you're saying that all the post houses (again not recognising that audio (and apple in that context) is about more than post.

And if you so convinced apple is some how personally shunning you then go ahead and switch platforms to teach them a lesson....good luck finding work though!

Oh, haha! That is excellent! Being the apologist you have shown yourself to be, you're telling me to find other work. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but being a journalist I have no problems finding other work, and, frankly, that fanboy-tone of yours is very, very childish to say the least. I am not sitting on the fence to teach anyone a lesson. I am saying I am on the fence, because that is what I am. You have shown yourself to be type of person that cannot handle reading someone is not blindly applauding SJ's complete shift of focus to the mass-consumer side of things and are reconsidering whether it's such a good idea to stay with Apples. You apparently have no clue either, that although Apple has a great chunk of the market(s), they're not alone in that market. People use a wide variety of products. Some are better of with other products. Grow up. Really.

 

[fcpguy]

Well at least one guy(blogger) claims its a done deal. FCP etc is sold according to some..... I'll take my grain of salt now

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/fcapria/story/apple_avid_and_nab/

"Word on the street is that Apple has been shopping ProApps around since late last summer, and a deal was close last fall. Now such rumors have reached a fevered pitch, with ProApps apparently sold with all but the final announcement to be made. Potential buyers include Thompson, which has been on an acquisition spree of late, and would love to add an industrial strength NLE to its newsroom offerings.
No one will speak on the record for attribution. Until then anything can happen, but sources say morale in the ProApps group is low. Key members of the team have been moved to consumer-focused products like iMovie. Others have begun preparing for life after Apple.
If this is the case, Apple has little reason to throw a party for ProApps, and lopping a few million from the expense column makes the unit a lot more attractive to a buyer."

Interesting article, thanks for putting it up. However, I don't buy it.
I have talked to a lot of reps in last few years and I have not gotten the sense that the pro apps are going anywhere right now. Taken a back seat, sure, but that also goes back to the fact that the pro apps do not need to be updated as frequently as consumer level products. I could be wrong and only time will tell, but it wouldn't make any sense at this point in time. Why would Apple sell off their pro apps division just when it is starting to make serious inroads into AVID's market share. Although, I suppose if Steve Jobs is bored with that market and the price is right, then anything could happen. I do know for a fact that there is some serious beta testing going on around town right now for some things that would fall into the NAB category, but that they are not ready for prime time yet. So it would seem weird for Apple to be pouring resources into beta testing products that they are going to sell soon. AVID on the other hand has needed to restructure for years and it is finally happening, it will be interesting to see what kind of company comes out on the other end.

 

[FunkyJunk]

Well we must have been at two different shows because Apple was one of the hottest spots at NAB for the last two years. In fact the reason that they moved them to they middle of the South Hall last year is because they wanted more traffic to flow through the Hall. Before people would always come in and stop at the LARGE Apple booth and bottleneck the traffic. They also got a lot of press in the daily NAB paper. So to say they won't be missed makes you sound like an NAB newb.

Sorry it took me a while to respond to this.

I admit I AM an NAB newb--it was my first year there--but let's be serious. They don't have anything significant to say about their video products that isn't already well-known by everyone who cares. There's not enough of a benefit to them to justify going.

As for Apple's booth being a hot spot, I didn't see that really. It was well-attended, but certainly not one of the big frontrunners. Sony's booth, the Red camera booth, and many others were more mobbed and had much more content. I found Apple's to be kind of boring, but that's in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

 

[fcpguy]

Get over yourself, you're accusing me of being arrogant, and telling me I lack a "true understanding" of NAB, when you utterly miss that NAB is more than video. If it haven't occured to you, NAB is audio too. NAB is ENG as well (look it up), and that includes radio and what else we have on the audio front. You're the arrogant bloke here, not realising that the next time one has to invest in tools, the seemingly shift of focus to cnsumer products while apparently ignoring the pro set will be a huge part of the decision making. You don't think the Beeb or The Danish Broadcast Corporation or other like them decide to get their support and their products from an Apple Store, do you?




Stupid argumentation. That argument would only work if you had a very (VERY) limited number of users, and you weren't interested in future customers. See, not everyone upgraded last year. Customers come and go. In essense you're saying that all the post houses (again not recognising that audio (and apple in that context) is about more than post.




Oh, haha! That is excellent! Being the apologist you have shown yourself to be, you're telling me to find other work. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but being a journalist I have no problems finding other work, and, frankly, that fanboy-tone of yours is very, very childish to say the least. I am not sitting on the fence to teach anyone a lesson. I am saying I am on the fence, because that is what I am. You have shown yourself to be type of person that cannot handle reading someone is not blindly applauding SJ's complete shift of focus to the mass-consumer side of things and are reconsidering whether it's such a good idea to stay with Apples. You apparently have no clue either, that although Apple has a great chunk of the market(s), they're not alone in that market. People use a wide variety of products. Some are better of with other products. Grow up. Really.

I am fully aware of what NAB is and is not, I have attended the last 7 years so please don't lecture me on NAB. I was speaking to the post production world, particularly Video/Film and Apple's involvement in that. I apologize that I forgot to mention audio. Apple is not involved with technologies such as radio and satellite and a lot of other things that are on display at NAB so that is irrelevant.
Furthermore, anyone who is involved in professional level editing, storage, audio has an Apple rep that they typically deal with directly. No need for the Apple store. Apple has people in a lot of different regions to deal with customers one on one for what their particular needs are. It is quite shortsighted on your part to think anyone who is serious about the pro apps would be turned off by Apple's consumer division. So tell me, what is Apple ignoring exactly that you need so desperately??? This also goes to your stupid argument claim, which is if you have needs as a pro user there are avenues to take to upgrade, demo, test, and purchase that are beyond the scope of the apple store. NAB is not the only place in which to explore these options.
You are quite skilled at jumping up and down and screaming about stuff that is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things...quite the "journalist" you are. I am no fanboy, but have worked on Macs, AVID's, Final Cuts, Softimage and the like for over 12 years. It annoys me when non industry people make assumptions that are totally incorrect. I was simply making the point that you were severly over reacting to this and if you are taking this so personally perhaps it would be better for you to move on since you are so angry. In LA, the majority of post production is done on Macs...whether it's FCP or AVID or Protools or After Effects or Photoshop, etc....that is a FACT whether you like it or not. I was only trying to point that out.
Those that fall back to name calling when they have nothing to back up their points are the "childish" ones and have no room telling anyone to grow up. Like I said before, just settle down already, this is not the end of the world.

 

[fluidedge]

i think everyone needs to take a chill pill.

just because apple has pulled out of NAB doesn't mean they won't be in LV at the same time - same goes for AVID, what's to say they won't be in a hotel round the corner displaying?

We don't know what has happened between Apple/Avid and the organizers of NAB, they might have had disagreements about position of booths or prices etc. Enough for them to say, fine we just won't be there. They may not be at NAB, but i'll wager they'll be there in LV somewhere. They're definitely going to be there at the FCP Super Meet - they're booked in for that one! Perhaps we'll see FCS there

 

[Tosser]

I am fully aware of what NAB is and is not, I have attended the last 7 years so please don't lecture me on NAB.

Funny, you seem to think you can lecture other on their choices and their considerations.

I was speaking to the post production world, particularly Video/Film and Apple's involvement in that. I apologize that I forgot to mention audio. Apple is not involved with technologies such as radio and satellite and a lot of other things that are on display at NAB so that is irrelevant.

Sorry to tell you this, but they sure are. Digital content creation (ENG both for radio and net – besides video/film and tv) , editing of it, and the delivery of such things are what NAB is all about.

I am frankly amazed you can say they have nothing to do with radio. I guess you think that radio is all about live talk-back radio and satellite music channels. But the world is bigger than that. Yo may want to look outside of the US.

Furthermore, anyone who is involved in professional level editing, storage, audio has an Apple rep that they typically deal with directly. No need for the Apple store.

How can so sorely miss my point? You called me arrogant for sitting on the fence, yet you completely fail to register and recognise that the reason I mention Apple Stores is because of the signals Apple seems to be sending: That there might not be that bloody rep anywhere, because their only focus will be consumer products. Hence my mentioning of the Apple Store.

Apple has people in a lot of different regions to deal with customers one on one for what their particular needs are. It is quite shortsighted on your part to think anyone who is serious about the pro apps would be turned off by Apple's consumer division.

See above. You have to trust the company which is providing you with solutions. Especially when things go wrong.

So tell me, what is Apple ignoring exactly that you need so desperately??? This also goes to your stupid argument claim, which is if you have needs as a pro user there are avenues to take to upgrade, demo, test, and purchase that are beyond the scope of the apple store.

See above, you're keeping on ignoring the initial argument, all in order to continue with your fanboyish strawman argument.

NAB is not the only place in which to explore these options.

I know. It's the signal they're sending. It's in the beginning of february, yet they have already said no to two of these things for pros.

You are quite skilled at jumping up and down and screaming about stuff that is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things...quite the "journalist" you are.

I am sorry to tell you, since you obviously haven't got a clue about this: These posts aren't written as me being a journalist. They're not even being written as blogs. When I am working, I am a journalist. Are you trying to say that my opinion and why I am on the fence should read as a journalistic article? If so, you must have lost your marbles somewhere along the way.

I am no fanboy, but have worked on Macs, AVID's, Final Cuts, Softimage and the like for over 12 years.

Funny you should say that. But the only people I have found to be so intent on closing their eyes to the argumentation at hand, all so they can say "don't let the door hit you on the way out", while at the same time showing an immense trust in Apple are the fanboys.

It annoys me when non industry people make assumptions that are totally incorrect. I was simply making the point that you were severly over reacting to this and if you are taking this so personally perhaps it would be better for you to move on since you are so angry.

See above.
Further, I am not taking this personally. I was giving the reasons why I was on the fence. Huge difference. But of course, you have yet again proven that when you think this is personal, while at the same time reacting like you do, telling me to get another job, while defending Apple ad nauseum, you are acting like the fanboy you claim not to be.

In LA, the majority of post production is done on Macs...whether it's FCP or AVID or Protools or After Effects or Photoshop, etc....that is a FACT whether you like it or not. I was only trying to point that out.

Weird, because that is far from what you "only" pointed out. Besides, pro broadcasting is a lot bigger than LA. Or perhaps you're trying to tell me Apple has the market cornered in broadcast? Get real, will you.

Those that fall back to name calling when they have nothing to back up their points are the "childish" ones and have no room telling anyone to grow up.

Yes, I know some people think that as that is an easy way to judge people. But when it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, I am sure as hell going to call it a duck and not "my feathered friend". In reality is an easy way (on the surface) to say that people are in wrong whenever they point to a specific behaviour.

Like I said before, just settle down already, this is not the end of the world.

Perhaps you should look at my posts again. You're the bloke that went all up in arms about me saying that I am not willing to invest more money in Apple as it is right now, because I am not sure Apple is the way to go.

 

[Tosser]

i think everyone needs to take a chill pill.

just because apple has pulled out of NAB doesn't mean they won't be in LV at the same time - same goes for AVID, what's to say they won't be in a hotel round the corner displaying?

We don't know what has happened between Apple/Avid and the organizers of NAB, they might have had disagreements about position of booths or prices etc. Enough for them to say, fine we just won't be there. They may not be at NAB, but i'll wager they'll be there in LV somewhere. They're definitely going to be there at the FCP Super Meet - they're booked in for that one! Perhaps we'll see FCS there

Yep, let's hope so.

 

[MikeTheC]

We'd heard rumors that Apple would be pulling out of NAB and that the reason was primarily motived by the high cost of exhibiting. [Emphasis added]

Motived? What kind of word is that?

In other news, Apple's got other, better ways to present itself than at NAB, IMHO.

 

[Michael Horton]

Historically Apple announces big things in FCS every 2 years not every year. Last year was a big thing year.

Apple may of pulled off the show floor but they still will be at the annual FCPUG SuperMeet to be held April 16 at the MGM Grand Hotel. The way I'm spinning this decision is if you really want to talk to the folks from the FCS team and I mean the ones that really matter; the ones that make decisions on your behalf, the ones that can really answer your questions, then you'll find them April 16 at the SuperMeet. They will be right up on stage and after that out in the hall. Try finding them on the show floor at their giant booth at a giant trade show like NAB. Yes, they are there, but just try and find them.

None of us know the exact reasons Apple pulled out but most of suspect its simply because this year the return on the several million dollar investment needed to show at NAB is just not worth it. Next year it might be worth it.

FCS Users are not being hurt or abandoned here, as only a tiny percentage of the (estimated 1,000,000) user-base go to NAB. We all can get as much troubleshooting info as we need on the internet. We can get training in just about every major city in the world. We can get installation and workflow solutions in every major city in the world.

This is just one year in many since Final Cut Pro launched, and in these recessionary times it's time for all companies to re-think their marketing strategies and take a more customer driven approach to achieve their ROI. Smaller customer based events like the SuperMeet are just one way to achieve that. Where else can you hang out with people smarter than you are, get problems solved, eat free food and get inspired to create, all in one room? Try that on a giant crowded show floor at a Giant trade show like NAB.

Apple pulling out is bad for NAB. Not so bad for its users.

Michael Horton
lafcpug
http://www.lafcpug.org

Co-producer of the FCPUG SuperMeet
http://www.lafcpug.org/nab_2008

 

[h'biki]

Because Tremor isn't ready yet.

Tremor? Wow. I haven't heard that name in a long, long time.

Shake is dead, its been dead since Apple bought it. Lack of real time functionality isn't what killed Shake, its Apple's lack of forward direction on the package. Terrible 3D space support, terrible EXR support, terrible timeline support, etc. etc. (and QMaster sucks balls - still does)

I really don't care what becomes of the Shake followup, I just don't have faith that Apple is interested in the high end compositing market. It may try to find some middle ground between Motion and Shake, but it won't affect the traditional Shake customers.

Nuke is the only compositing package with a future in high end compositing. (Flame Flint and Inferno's have their place in film work, but the only facility I know of that does serious VFX work on FFI is Hydraulics)

 

[skiesforme]

WOW !!
Seems like we have a Catfight / Dogfight here !!
Calm down guys !!

 

[fcpguy]

I am frankly amazed you can say they have nothing to do with radio. I guess you think that radio is all about live talk-back radio and satellite music channels. But the world is bigger than that. Yo may want to look outside of the US.

You clearly have an issue with reading and comprehension. My points have always been directed towards Apple's core demographic which is post production of film & video. If some of their pro apps are being adapted for use in radio that's great. However, FCP was never design or targeted at such an audience. Nor is any of their other pro apps aside from perhaps logic, which is still designed for video post production. In fact, one point I will concede to you that if radio is your thing, Apple's pro apps are probably not the way to go. If that's your thing then perhaps you might want to look elsewhere. If you are talking about podcasting and web video then you can pretty much make due with iLife or FCP express.

How can so sorely miss my point? You called me arrogant for sitting on the fence, yet you completely fail to register and recognise that the reason I mention Apple Stores is because of the signals Apple seems to be sending: That there might not be that bloody rep anywhere, because their only focus will be consumer products. Hence my mentioning of the Apple Store.

First off, I never called you arrogant...that was directed towards the original poster from which I quoted. Regardless, there has been no word whatsoever that the Apple reps are going to fall off the face of the earth. In fact, I just spoke with ours yesterday and he would back up everything I am saying. So would you say that my Apple rep is a blind "fanboy" as well?? I have no idea where you are getting this assumption from other then reading too far into things.

See above, you're keeping on ignoring the initial argument, all in order to continue with your fanboyish strawman argument.

Please stop with the fanboy crap when you won't even answer a direct question I asked you. And please tell me how anything I've said is a strawman argument, when the majority of what you have said, has been nothing but assumption and speculation based on nothing substantial.

I know. It's the signal they're sending. It's in the beginning of february, yet they have already said no to two of these things for pros.

I've already gone through this...they have NOTHING to show right now that is new.

I am sorry to tell you, since you obviously haven't got a clue about this: These posts aren't written as me being a journalist. They're not even being written as blogs. When I am working, I am a journalist. Are you trying to say that my opinion and why I am on the fence should read as a journalistic article? If so, you must have lost your marbles somewhere along the way.

No I am saying that you write like a pissed off 16 year old who just want to bitch for the sake of bitching while calling people names and adding very little in the way of substance to your arguments. All the while ignoring direct questions that further a healthier discussion. But hey two can play that game...

Further, I am not taking this personally. I was giving the reasons why I was on the fence. Huge difference. But of course, you have yet again proven that when you think this is personal, while at the same time reacting like you do, telling me to get another job, while defending Apple ad nauseum, you are acting like the fanboy you claim not to be.

I simply said, twice, if you are not happy with your current choices perhaps you should look for other options. I never said to get another job, I said good luck finding one in LA that is not mac based. I am not defending Apple, but rather Apple's decision not to go to NAB this year...big difference. But apparently, your reading skills have failed you again. Or perhaps you have nothing else to say so once again you fall back on the "fanboy" name calling.

Weird, because that is far from what you "only" pointed out. Besides, pro broadcasting is a lot bigger than LA. Or perhaps you're trying to tell me Apple has the market cornered in broadcast?

See above about reading and comprehension skills.

Yes, I know some people think that as that is an easy way to judge people. But when it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, I am sure as hell going to call it a duck and not "my feathered friend". In reality is an easy way (on the surface) to say that people are in wrong whenever they point to a specific behaviour.

You can call it whatever you want.....You call it a duck, I call it a goose

Perhaps you should look at my posts again. You're the bloke that went all up in arms about me saying that I am not willing to invest more money in Apple as it is right now, because I am not sure Apple is the way to go.

Yeah, I was up in arms...wow you are so very perceptive..hahahaha
I would love to continue this little pissing match, but it's friday and I have better things to do with my time.
That's fine if you want to pass me off as a so called "fanboy" who is blindly defending apple no matter what. That is your prerogative. I am telling you what I know based on my experience and connections with Apple and others in the industry. If that's not good enough for you then that's your problem not mine.
What does annoy me about people like you though is that anyone who defends or tries to explain apple is a "fanboy" who should not be taken seriously. Give you a break, no, give me a break. Next time I suggest you try having a debate with someone with out all the unnecessary labels and assumptions you have made today. I apologize for not being in tune with what is going on all over the world, but I do know what happens in the entertainment capital of the world. Next time the subject comes up about Apple's pro apps, I'll be sure to not post anything. Heaven forbid, I add my 2 cents about the industry I work in and know for fear someone like you may call me a bad name like "fanboy". Have a good one, bloke

 

[fluidedge]

Will you two shut up? No one cares - take it into a private chat room, or the school yard.

Historically Apple announces big things in FCS every 2 years not every year. Last year was a big thing year.

Apple may of pulled off the show floor but they still will be at the annual FCPUG SuperMeet to be held April 16 at the MGM Grand Hotel. The way I'm spinning this decision is if you really want to talk to the folks from the FCS team and I mean the ones that really matter; the ones that make decisions on your behalf, the ones that can really answer your questions, then you'll find them April 16 at the SuperMeet. They will be right up on stage and after that out in the hall. Try finding them on the show floor at their giant booth at a giant trade show like NAB. Yes, they are there, but just try and find them.

None of us know the exact reasons Apple pulled out but most of suspect its simply because this year the return on the several million dollar investment needed to show at NAB is just not worth it. Next year it might be worth it.

FCS Users are not being hurt or abandoned here, as only a tiny percentage of the (estimated 1,000,000) user-base go to NAB. We all can get as much troubleshooting info as we need on the internet. We can get training in just about every major city in the world. We can get installation and workflow solutions in every major city in the world.

This is just one year in many since Final Cut Pro launched, and in these recessionary times it's time for all companies to re-think their marketing strategies and take a more customer driven approach to achieve their ROI. Smaller customer based events like the SuperMeet are just one way to achieve that. Where else can you hang out with people smarter than you are, get problems solved, eat free food and get inspired to create, all in one room? Try that on a giant crowded show floor at a Giant trade show like NAB.

Apple pulling out is bad for NAB. Not so bad for its users.

Michael Horton
lafcpug
http://www.lafcpug.org

Co-producer of the FCPUG SuperMeet
http://www.lafcpug.org/nab_2008

Now this is someone we should listen to! Nice to have your opinions Michael! Hey do you know if Larry Jordan is doing anything at the supermeet? I always like the way he talks about Final Cut

 

[Michael Horton]

Larry will be at the SuperMeet. In what capacity we don't know yet. Agenda will be set sometime in March.

Larry hosted the Macworld SuperMeet for us.

 

[SimonMW]

No show at NAB just means they don't have any new products for broadcasting/video/film market.

No it doesn't. It means that NAB is too expensive to exhibit at for little return on that investment. Big shows like NAB are going the way of the dinosaur, and more and more companies are pulling out from them.

Apple can handle their releases better at their own conferences and through the media. They don't need a big stand at a big show. Panasonic are going through the same thinking too at the moment and I wouldn't be surprised to see them pull out from NAB in coming years too.

 

[Tosser]

You clearly have an issue with reading and comprehension. My points have always been directed towards Apple's core demographic which is post production of film & video.

I see, and that's why you claimed (although a bit withdrawn now), that that was what NAB was _only_ about as well. Splendidly.

If some of their pro apps are being adapted for use in radio that's great. However, FCP was never design or targeted at such an audience. Nor is any of their other pro apps aside from perhaps logic, which is still designed for video post production. In fact, one point I will concede to you that if radio is your thing, Apple's pro apps are probably not the way to go.

Hence my use of Deck and Peak as well as protools and Dalet etc. It still doesn't change that it appears Apple is leaving th field of pro audio. Even with films and tv you do audio, you know. I know,I know, when asking films and tv-folks (real) audio is usually the one thing that isn't given any second thought – it's all about getting "nice" pictures and "sweet" effects.

If that's your thing then perhaps you might want to look elsewhere. If you are talking about podcasting and web video then you can pretty much make due with iLife or FCP express.

You seriously think that I was talking about podcasting and webvideo?

First off, I never called you arrogant...that was directed towards the original poster from which I quoted.

Really, now what do you call this:

I find posts like this and the guy who said I am going to switch platforms very annoying and arrogant because it shows a true lack of understanding about [etc.]!

Anyway:

Regardless, there has been no word whatsoever that the Apple reps are going to fall off the face of the earth. In fact, I just spoke with ours yesterday and he would back up everything I am saying.

Frankly, have you tried the "not-test" on that? What rep would say "We are not going to support you in the future"? Perhaps you should try that test a bit more often before taking a rep's word as gospel.

So would you say that my Apple rep is a blind "fanboy" as well??

Nope, I'd call him loyal to Apple. So far. And I frankly doubt he will back you up on _everything, seeing as you have said quite a lot not necessarily connected to Apple. The rep. can only back you up on things pertaining to his role as rep for Apple, not "everything" as you state.

I have no idea where you are getting this assumption from other then reading too far into things.

Funny, this. You're the one going off, because I'm saying I'm on the fence. You're the one that cannot even remember calling me arrogant (as I have just quoted above), and basically saying that if I have nothing good to say and trust Apple I should leave. Yet at the same time you're pissed that I voice my opinion on the matter, claiming that NAB is Film/TV/Video only (and inferring audio and radio is not part of NAB).

Please stop with the fanboy crap when you won't even answer a direct question I asked you. And please tell me how anything I've said is a strawman argument, when the majority of what you have said, has been nothing but assumption and speculation based on nothing substantial.

I do not answer "direct questions" when those direct questions is clearly part of a strawman argument. So stop with rhetorics and I might answer. However, you have made assumptions upon assumptions, yet you claim I am the one. That's brilliant. By choosing to accuse others of the very same you yourself are guilty of, you apparently think that you somehow get a free pass.

I've already gone through this...they have NOTHING to show right now that is new.

Hmm, yes. You have stated your opinion on the matter, and made assumptions, trying to convince me and others that it's fine that they have nothing to show, that it's fine they by the 8th of february have cancelled two pro shows. You don't think that companies only go there if they have something "new", do you?

No I am saying that you write like a pissed off 16 year old who just want to bitch for the sake of bitching while calling people names and adding very little in the way of substance to your arguments.

Really? How many times should I remind you that it was you who took offence that someone was actually voicing his doubts as to whether he should stay loyal to Apple?

All the while ignoring direct questions that further a healthier discussion. But hey two can play that game...

- and your attempts as strawmen continue. See above.

I simply said, twice, if you are not happy with your current choices perhaps you should look for other options.

Did you, now? Look at the other post I already quoted. There's a difference in the tone of voice you're using now and how it resonated over the world wide web.

I never said to get another job, I said good luck finding one in LA that is not mac based.

Haha, no you didn't. You didn't even mention LA to begin with. And even if you _had_ been mentioning it, how ridiculous is it to assume that everyone working in "the industry" is working in LA? However, you didn't mention LA.

I am not defending Apple, but rather Apple's decision not to go to NAB this year...big difference.

You have a funny way of showing that. Especially since you were reacting to me sitting on the fence, and "no Apple at NAB" wasn't the one and only reason for me to reconsider my options.

But apparently, your reading skills have failed you again.

There it is again: Accusing the other first, in an attempt not to be shown doing the same. The thing is, you haven't read my posts properly. Hell, you can't even remember what you have written yourself as I have shown, so that's hardly a surprise.

Or perhaps you have nothing else to say so once again you fall back on the "fanboy" name calling.

Going for the "victim role" here, are we? Saying to people that they should get out the door and ending with "good luck on finding another job", or constantly accusing people of having no knowledge, not knowing what NAB is "really about", and that they know nothing, unless they work in your niche in LA may not be name calling, but it sure as hell is arrogant and it shows an uncanning tendency to be besserwissen.

See above about reading and comprehension skills.

You may need to reread your own posts. Beginning from the one calling me arrogant.

You can call it whatever you want.....You call it a duck, I call it a goose

Nope, you're asking me to call the duck a goose, because your knee-jerk reaction is that a duck should never be called a duck, because that is by definition (in your book) insulting.

Yeah, I was up in arms...wow you are so very perceptive..hahahaha

You're really beginning to show your true colours. I urge you to read the other post I quoted in here. That started it all. after that you have continued to ignore what I have said – to such a degree that by now you're acting as if I am on the fence merely because they don't show at NAB. Remember that strawman argumentation I accused you of before?

I would love to continue this little pissing match, but it's friday and I have better things to do with my time.

Don't we all, don't we all? Well, at this time at night I don't here in Denmark.

That's fine if you want to pass me off as a so called "fanboy" who is blindly defending apple no matter what. That is your prerogative. I am telling you what I know based on my experience and connections with Apple and others in the industry.

No, you're giving me your opinion while claiming your opinion is the only right one, asking me to trust in Apple blindly, and if I don't want to, you're telling me to find another job. You are telling me this, claiming it is based in knowledge and your connections, yet fail utterly to understand that the world is bigger place with loads more niches than the one you're working in, and in that geographical region you happen to be at.

If that's not good enough for you then that's your problem not mine.

Yes, of course it's my problem, that I don't take your word and opinion as gospel. Especially since we aren't in the same niche, doing the exaclt same thing in the exact same city. Yes, I certainly have big problem on my hands …

What does annoy me about people like you though is that anyone who defends or tries to explain apple is a "fanboy" who should not be taken seriously.

I never said such a thing. It is the way you're telling everyone that does not agree with you to buzz off. Telling them they don't know anything because they don't work in the exact same niche as you. You even use strawmen to infer that I am basing my "fence sitting" on the absense at NAB alone. Also you take an Apple rep's word as gospel, and try to convince me I should too. That is indeed fanboyism.

Give you a break, no, give me a break. Next time I suggest you try having a debate with someone with out all the unnecessary labels and assumptions you have made today. I apologize for not being in tune with what is going on all over the world, but I do know what happens in the entertainment capital of the world.

You forgot: Within your own niche.

Next time the subject comes up about Apple's pro apps, I'll be sure to not post anything. Heaven forbid, I add my 2 cents about the industry I work in and know for fear someone like you may call me a bad name like "fanboy". Have a good one, bloke

You didn't just add your two cents. No, in effect, you asked anyone that doesn't agree with you to find another job.

 

[atomoboy]

Huh?

That is an absurd cool aid drinking statement. On the high end of the professional market; broadcast, high end commercial post, and film if you surveyed every facility in the professional industry to determine marketshare....I can assure you the lionshare does not not belong to FCPro.

I like FCPro, it has created mass interest and the competition has pushed the entire industry to keep innovating..................... but it has not killed anything.

I own a post facility doing national, regional and local work. There is no way in hell I would buy a seat of any AVID product because I can buy a copy of FCP and charge the same hourly fee. AVID continues to have better database integration and I'd say a better tool set but for raw cutting, I'll take FCP any day. I can capture at the office and edit at the house. I've done national commercials in my bedroom on a PowerBook. Not possible with most AVID systems. I have not onlined a single spot in over 5 years that was offlined on AVID. Not one. That includes national spots.

I in no way implied that FCP was the end all post production product. I do however stand by my statement that FCP has redefined the industry. Every producer and agency we work with has at least one seat of FCP (usually bootlegged). It's cheap, easy to learn and is fully compatible via OMF with Flame, Smoke and other high-end systems. (Which I drive every day) Do we do motion graphics or compositing in FCP? No way. But you wouldn't do that in Media Composer either. Why do you think that Autodesk is pumping increased OMF compatibility into their systems level products? It's because FCP is the swiss army knife of post.

AVID has been gutted by Apple and rightfully so. AVID used to charge around $15,000 for 5 gig drives that were "certified" to edit with. Give me a break. Media Composer used to be around $125,000 and Apple sells a very similar product for $1,000. That my friends is redefining an industry. AVIDs only holdouts are with legacy users, people who need robust multi-user editing and feature editors who need the stronger keycode support.

For all those reasons, I respectfully disagree and stand by my previous post.

 

[atomoboy]

yeh i appreciate ultra high end wouldn't use AE (i edited my post!) - I thought Autodesk Flame was the one a lot used

It depends. Many of the high end design shops doing ID pkgs, show opens and promos have embraced AE. It's cheap and easy and well suited for design driven jobs. Flame has a great foothold in spot production. It is a very interactive program for working with huge numbers of layers in realtime. I can't speak on feature production but from what I read, it's a real mix of products.

In the end, it's what the artist is comfortable with and what the shop can afford. I own Flame running on Linux and use it daily. I also own AE running on a Mac and have an incredible artist who does great stuff with it. We each gravitated towards the systems that matched our working styles.

Outside of forums like this, the end concern is the quality of the creative output not the brand plate on the box.

 

[BenRoethig]

Well at least one guy(blogger) claims its a done deal. FCP etc is sold according to some..... I'll take my grain of salt now

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/fcapria/story/apple_avid_and_nab/

"Word on the street is that Apple has been shopping ProApps around since late last summer, and a deal was close last fall. Now such rumors have reached a fevered pitch, with ProApps apparently sold with all but the final announcement to be made. Potential buyers include Thompson, which has been on an acquisition spree of late, and would love to add an industrial strength NLE to its newsroom offerings.
No one will speak on the record for attribution. Until then anything can happen, but sources say morale in the ProApps group is low. Key members of the team have been moved to consumer-focused products like iMovie. Others have begun preparing for life after Apple.
If this is the case, Apple has little reason to throw a party for ProApps, and lopping a few million from the expense column makes the unit a lot more attractive to a buyer."

I hope to God this isn't true. Content creation has been the Mac's bread and butter. If the Mac has gotten to a point where the platform only exists to challenge Steve Jobs and not to serve the users, then we have a problem.

 

[wyldelee]

I own a post facility doing national, regional and local work. There is no way in hell I would buy a seat of any AVID product because I can buy a copy of FCP and charge the same hourly fee. AVID continues to have better database integration and I'd say a better tool set but for raw cutting, I'll take FCP any day. I can capture at the office and edit at the house. I've done national commercials in my bedroom on a PowerBook. Not possible with most AVID systems. I have not onlined a single spot in over 5 years that was offlined on AVID. Not one. That includes national spots.

I in no way implied that FCP was the end all post production product. I do however stand by my statement that FCP has redefined the industry. Every producer and agency we work with has at least one seat of FCP (usually bootlegged). It's cheap, easy to learn and is fully compatible via OMF with Flame, Smoke and other high-end systems. (Which I drive every day) Do we do motion graphics or compositing in FCP? No way. But you wouldn't do that in Media Composer either. Why do you think that Autodesk is pumping increased OMF compatibility into their systems level products? It's because FCP is the swiss army knife of post.

AVID has been gutted by Apple and rightfully so. AVID used to charge around $15,000 for 5 gig drives that were "certified" to edit with. Give me a break. Media Composer used to be around $125,000 and Apple sells a very similar product for $1,000. That my friends is redefining an industry. AVIDs only holdouts are with legacy users, people who need robust multi-user editing and feature editors who need the stronger keycode support.

For all those reasons, I respectfully disagree and stand by my previous post.

Maybe you can charge the same prices in Alabama but you definitely cannot charge the same price for an FCP suite as an avid suite in major markets. And the rates for the editors are much lower.
I do not consider redefining the pricepoints as the same thing as redefining the industry.

It sounds like you found your tool of choice,but that doesn't mean it is the editorial marketshare leader in the Pro industry.If you need multi seat collaboration,FCP is a poor option, at least for now... Avid was selling those expensive drives when drives cost an awful lot of money (unreasonable comparison to todays prices).

I too,will stick with what I said"Apple is a hardware company that is primarily focused on consumer products. They sell software in order to sell more apple hardware".