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I´d love to buy a macbook retina update without feeling like i´m buying a glued together brick which will fill a landfill in around 1-4 years.

Why are you only speaking out now? Why did you never say anything when the iPod was released, or the iPhone, or the iPad? Or the majority of their accessories? All those were never user serviceable and it never bothered anyone that there was no EPEAT, now suddenly it is a problem? Curious indeed.

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Even Apple themselves usually dispose several parts when one breaks since its not cost effective to get the parts apart when they are glued together like that etc.

BS. Do you have any proof for this? It takes 20 minutes at most with an Hot Air Gun to melt the glue and peel off the batteries, like cutting through butter. Why do people insist on these wild exaggerations. Can't you just make your point honestly?

I glue my hockey blades to my stick, and with a blow drier it takes me all of 3 minutes to swap new blades in. It's no different here with the batteries.
 
Go read the ifixit teardown post for the macbook retina.
As if they're completely objective and don't have an agenda. :rolleyes: iFixit might not be able to tinker with it or sell you stuff to do it yourself, but that doesn't mean Apple technicians can't do it.

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BS. Do you have any proof for this? It takes 20 minutes at most with an Hot Air Gun to melt the glue and peel off the batteries, like cutting through butter. Why do people insist on these wild exaggerations. Can't you just make your point honestly?

I glue my hockey blades to my stick, and with a blow drier it takes me all of 3 minutes to swap new blades in. It's no different here with the batteries.

Because iFixit gave the rMBP a 1/10 or whatever for user repairability that means every rMBP is going to end up in some landfill. Because of course iFixit has no agenda, no bias, completely objective. :rolleyes:
 
As if they're completely objective and don't have an agenda. :rolleyes: iFixit might not be able to tinker with it or sell you stuff to do it yourself, but that doesn't mean Apple technicians can't do it.

Please point me to where on the Apple site it says I can take in a rMBP and pay them to upgrade the RAM, SSD, or anything else.
 
I agree. I'm tired of the g*d d*mn government placing all these restrictions on private industry and capitalism.

Yeah! G*d d*mn government trying to protect our environment and keep our air and water clean! Who the heck do they think they are? Corporate profits aren't high enough, let's move everything to China!

Oh, wait....

Linfen-China-Pollution.jpg
 
Why are you only speaking out now? Why did you never say anything when the iPod was released, or the iPhone, or the iPad? Or the majority of their accessories? All those were never user serviceable and it never bothered anyone that there was no EPEAT, now suddenly it is a problem? Curious indeed.

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BS. Do you have any proof for this? It takes 20 minutes at most with an Hot Air Gun to melt the glue and peel off the batteries, like cutting through butter. Why do people insist on these wild exaggerations. Can't you just make your point honestly?

I glue my hockey blades to my stick, and with a blow drier it takes me all of 3 minutes to swap new blades in. It's no different here with the batteries.

I would imagine batteries would not take kindly to all that heat. I doubt they'd explode, but maybe they'd be more likely to leak? That's not great for the environment either.
 
Hmm...a Mac with more rare earth elements and less recyclable parts is one thing, but one where the whole thing must be chucked when one little part goes wrong is, in my opinion, too far.
Apple are advancing two quickly for the low-level hardware manufacturers.
 
Yes, you are right. I should welcome you with open arms. We need a lot more self-important, arrogant, no-nothings, who will take any opportunity they can to bash Apple. Yes, I agree "it is good to listen to others opinions" I hope you are listening to mine. You know zero about me except that my username is MACDAV and that I would prefer that you go elsewhere if your primary intent is to denigrate Apples products and business policies. Yes, you have the right to be here and there is nothing I can do about that. I'm sure new users are all clamoring for your expert advice and you are so selfless that you will give it to them whether they want it or not. I've been on the PC side of things for many years. I've built many of my own PC's from scratch over the years. The simple fact is that Apple makes a superior product. Don't even get me started on OSX vs. Windows. You are an uniformed and pretentious person and I wish you would go play somewhere else.

Wow, touched a nerve. You know as much about me as I know about you, so leave your judgements to yourself. I'm just stating the facts and putting forward observations on "Apples products and business policies" maybe it's not what you want to hear. Do some reading and you will find analyst and tech folk are all saying similar things. It's ok, you can still get your apple tattoo I'm not stopping you from voicing your opinions, so why stop me from voicing mine.
 
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I would imagine batteries would not take kindly to all that heat. I doubt they'd explode, but maybe they'd be more likely to leak? That's not great for the environment either.

I suppose there is always that risk, but if the batteries are already deemed defective, you could just run them down to depletion, then remove them, placing them in a container to be properly disposed of. There is also the possibility of flash freezing them, that'll also significantly weaken the adhesive. In any event, Apple does have some process by which to easily remove these batteries so I don't think there is much of an issue.
 
Why are you only speaking out now? Why did you never say anything when the iPod was released, or the iPhone, or the iPad? Or the majority of their accessories? All those were never user serviceable and it never bothered anyone that there was no EPEAT, now suddenly it is a problem? Curious indeed.

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Devices like the iOS devices don´t fall into the groups of devices that certificate is given for.
So there was also no stink about them getting or not getting it.
Regarding me personally, yeah, its not good either regarding phones when they are made as total consumables but there i and likely many others got trained by the circumstances that a mobile phone is sorta like a consumable already from the get go in most cases where i get a new one every 1-3 years anyway (me i do it since i´m a developer for these devices so i´d get the latest every year anyway and even if i wasn´t i´d still get a newer one at least every time my phone contract runs out which is the case for most people every 2-4 years) and then if the old one still works i hand it down to a family member or friend if i don´t still need it to also test things on the old ones.

With "proper" computers like notebooks i have a different view though. I grew up as someone building together own machines many times out of the separate parts. I switched to getting readymade machines later on and meanwhile i use macs more than windows machines for all work for several years, too.
Still i like the idea that i could at least replace the hdd or put more ram in or get parts replaced or repaired for not too high sums at any close shop, not just apple stores.
It does annoy me when a class of devices where i don´t see any need for it turns from something that was easily serviceable and recyclable by anyone into something where i always have to bring it to apple to get anything repaired/replaced/recycled and buying Applecare for it becomes sorta a mandatory purchase, one could even debate that buying the maxed out specs version one ever could imagine wanting for that machine sorta becomes a mandatory initial purchase since one can´t ever upgrade any part anymore after the initial purchase.


BS. Do you have any proof for this? It takes 20 minutes at most with an Hot Air Gun to melt the glue and peel off the batteries, like cutting through butter. Why do people insist on these wild exaggerations. Can't you just make your point honestly?

My point was made in honest way. I have lots of iOS devices and Macs.
In between a bunch of them break. Due to that i know out of personal experience that the more parts are glued together or in other way assembled in a way that makes it not cost effective to replace/repair/recycle them one by one when one part breaks, there´s a growing tendency that when you bring or send it in for repair you can notice that several parts have been replaced when you get that or a new device back.
Besides that i read many tech sites and listen to many tech podcasts and a similar picture is painted there, too, where repeatedly you can read/hear about cases where one part broke and then several (working) parts where replaced due to the way its constructed.

Its nice that you (think you) can replace the parts easily with a heat gun holding it 20 minutes on all the glued together parts, but neither is that cost effective to do for most companies nor is it particularly secure when it gets to things like trying to get the glue off the battery and yeah, in either case its not what can be counted as easily user serviceable at all.

Its ok if you don´t share my view, but yeah, i don´t think its that weird from me to want to have at least the ssd and ram be serviceable by me easily and not have the feeling most parts are glued together internally or use custom ram soldering etc.
 
Devices like the iOS devices don´t fall into the groups of devices that certificate is given for.

Mother nature doesn't make that distinction, nor does she care for certificates, so the only difference is the ones we make, which reveal inconsistencies in the way we look at things. Again we are the problem and we need to change the way we look at things, or to use your words, the way we have become accustomed to think of things. I'm fine with people caring about the environment and expressing that view, what I can't wrap my head around is the lack of a consistent perspective on these issues. I find the trend to always have to have the latest and greatest far more problematic than any glue in a product, but that's just me.

There's bigger fish to fry and it seems to me not only disingenuous but a failure to show proper rightful indignation when people make such an outcry here, yet no where else.
 
Mother nature doesn't make that distinction, nor does she care for certificates, so the only difference is the ones we make, which reveal inconsistencies in the way we look at things. Again we are the problem and we need to change the way we look at things, or to use your words, the way we have become accustomed to think of things. I'm fine with people caring about the environment and expressing that view, what I can't wrap my head around is the lack of a consistent perspective on these issues. I find the trend to always have to have the latest and greatest far more problematic than any glue in a product, but that's just me.

There's bigger fish to fry and it seems to me not only disingenuous but a failure to show proper rightful indignation when people make such an outcry here, yet no where else.


Well, yes, we are inconsistent beings. I acknowledged being inconsistent in having different expectations from a smartphone than a notebook regarding how user serviceable/recyclable/upgradable i expect it to be.
I said i don´t think that´s a good stance by myself and others, still, that´s how it is for most people.
And yes, it would probably be better if i and all others made a stink about all such issues for all devices, hardware and software in general, heck, even for all financial/economical and social issues and not just one that strikes us worthy of moaning about right now since it annoys us right now.

Thing is i worry about the things i´m busy with (too much) in my daily routine hence don´t do such things as much as would probably be a good idea in aim to change the world for the better and then in between something affects me right in that moment and then i moan about that thing in that moment.

Right now for me the thing is my 5 year old Mac is feeling old in the tooth for the work i do so i was in the market for getting a macbook retina and i consider forth and back whether i should get it or not because of such downsides like those talked about in the thread.
No, i´m not an environment activist, i´m honest, one could say my motivation with this is quite self centered, i want to have a computer like the macbook retina but where i can replace some parts when needed, where getting AppleCare is not mandatory, where i don´t feel like even getting the max specked out version is mandatory since i can´t upgrade it later on and yeah, where i don´t have to think i should better get some speedy external backup with it for sure, too since its likely that when one part breaks i don´t even get the thing with the original storage back.
It just happens to be that the cause for all these issues is the same why its not good for the environment, too.
Is it egoistic that my personal gain for doing this is more important to me than the side that it would also be good for the environment if parts are better recyclable one by one? Likely.
Should we try to change the world on more ends than just pushing for the construction of one device being changed to a different way?
Very likely.

But heck, still better to push at least regarding one thing that annoys one right now than none =)
 
To use Steve Jobs' words: fortune 500 companies are 500 orifices to go through in order to sell anything. We're not good at that.

I doubt they give a rats about corporate. By their own admission, they're in the consumer business.
 
As much as I'm disappointed that the new MacBooks are so irreparable... I would hope that apple's got a plan on how to disassemble them SAFELY when you recycle through them.

Hopefully in the next few years the technology will be there to create things as powerful and thin as these, but small enough to build in the parts to be reparable.

I've been playing with a G5 I acquired .. and like the Mac Pro in many regards... it's just great to see Apple's old design where everything is clearly labeled and friendly to update or repair...
 
I´d love to buy a macbook retina update without feeling like i´m buying a glued together brick which will fill a landfill in around 1-4 years.
Then don't throw it in a landfill when you are done with it.

The lack of thought in this discussion makes me wonder just how far we've regressed. Not sure we should be called primates, anymore. Parrots seems closer. :rolleyes:
 
Wow, touched a nerve. You know as much about me as I know about you, so leave your judgements to yourself. ... It's ok, you can still get your apple tattoo I'm not stopping you from voicing your opinions, so why stop me from voicing mine.

That quote says actually a lot about you.
 
Please point me to where on the Apple site it says I can take in a rMBP and pay them to upgrade the RAM, SSD, or anything else.

I guess I should have been more clear. I was referring to recycling, which I assume is what EPEAT is about. There's no solid evidence that Apple built a machine that is not recyclable.

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Oh and if it really bothers someone that they can't upgrade the RAM, SSD or swap out the battery on their own then don't buy the rMBP. No one put a gun to your head forcing you to buy it. We'll see how much of this is 'antennagate' like BS or how many people actually vote with their wallets and stop buying Apple's products.
 
The fact that memory is essentially a solid state build now is disgusting. For the first time since 1994 I am actually considering going the other way.

The premium that Apple charges for memory is appaling. The lack of updating machines is now going to be the standard as it seems. Not all of us are interested in buying new laptops every design cycle. Only reason Ill get another iPhone is in part to LTE update.

Very disappointed in Apple and all they are doing is allowing other companies to get with it. iCloud being crap. .me email consistently sucking, now locked in solid state builds on the new laptops, whats next... thanks Apple for now proving me wrong saying Steve passing wouldnt be the end, but clearly it is. lame
 
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We'll see how much of this is 'antennagate' like BS or how many people actually vote with their wallets and stop buying Apple's products.

I hate to break it to you, but 'antennagate' was a proven design flaw. The rubber case was a good workaround, but the problem did exist. As far as un-serviceable laptops, it's not for me, but they still offer the older MBP design which I can live with.
 
I hate to break it to you, but 'antennagate' was a proven design flaw. The rubber case was a good workaround, but the problem did exist. As far as un-serviceable laptops, it's not for me, but they still offer the older MBP design which I can live with.

live with the older MBP... that statement is exactly why Im so disappointed, finding old the alternative to the latest build. Steve would be so pissed
 
Wow, touched a nerve. You know as much about me as I know about you, so leave your judgements to yourself. I'm just stating the facts and putting forward observations on "Apples products and business policies" maybe it's not what you want to hear. Do some reading and you will find analyst and tech folk are all saying similar things. It's ok, you can still get your apple tattoo I'm not stopping you from voicing your opinions, so why stop me from voicing mine.

Yes, I agree that personal attacks have no place in a reasonable discussion of the facts. Apparently, you don't follow your own guidelines and made a purely personal attack in joking about me getting an Apple tattoo. It might have been funny if it had any approximation to the truth. Also, I can't "stop" you from voicing your "opinions" (opinions are not facts). You bashed me for my username MacDav. My name is Dave. When I first registered some years ago, I thought since I was on MacRumors, I would just use MacDave. MacDave was taken so I dropped the "e". Talk about making bad judgments. You really took a wild leap in assuming I was some kind of non thinking "Apple Zombie". I find it hard to understand your motivation in wanting to hang out on an Apple rumor site when you are a self professed Microsoft and Google advocate. You say it is an altruistic motive to help the less fortunate to understand all the bad things that Apple is. One big reason it seems to me, is that you enjoy the "Drama" of it all. You get a thrill from "performing" in front of a large audience. To test my hypothesis I am challenging you to a debate over which operating system is better, OSX or Windows. This debate must be based on purely factual information and not personal opinion. There is one caveat however, and that is... the debate must take place through exchange of private messages and not on the theatrical stage of the Mac Rumors public forums that you so dearly love. If you accept this challenge please send me a private message. I should let you know that I spent the last 26 years employed as an electro-mechancal repair engineer and was also a certified computer tech and certified network technician. I am now in my sixties and retired. I'll start the debate off with a question regarding Windows 8. Do you think it was a good idea for Microsoft to continue to support the Registry in Windows 8 ? What are the advantages and disadvantages? If you respond to me here in the Mac Rumors forum I will not reply, because I know I will only be feeding into your need for attention. Your move.
 
Apple is just continuing on its path of innovation. In order to create those super thin, flexible and insanely powerful computers that we all dream of and expect to see in the future, someone has to break the mold. No company would be able to achieve this without breaking EPEAT standards. But in time and with new breakthroughs in computing and design, meeting those standards (though they will probably change) will once again be achievable.

I mean... weren't we supposed to already have video newspapers that could be thrown away without a second thought?
 

Apple already subcontracts to other companies (they have to sign up to a code of conduct), but Apple can't make sure that stuff gets sent to those contractors unless that stuff is first sent to Apple.



It's not mentioned there; it's mentioned here:

http://www.apple.com/recycling/

That looks like a pretty sweet deal to me.
Still not mentioned where I pointed. I don't give a **** about US-only deals when they're inaccessible to the others..
Until proven otherwise, there are no gift cards given out outside of the US
 
I remember those days

Yeah! G*d d*mn government trying to protect our environment and keep our air and water clean! Who the heck do they think they are? Corporate profits aren't high enough, let's move everything to China!

Oh, wait....

Image

Yes, when I was a kid growing up in the 1950-1960's the smog in L.A. was so bad some days that we literally had to lay down and breathe very quickly and shallowly (panting), because it hurt so bad to breathe deeply. The trick is to find the right balance in regulation, so you protect people's health and still allow for innovation and a healthy economy. The problem is people are standing on one side or the other side and screaming how evil the other side is. Nothing is ever accomplished by this. Everybody please move to the middle and then we can move forward.
 
Apple is just continuing on its path of innovation. In order to create those super thin, flexible and insanely powerful computers that we all dream of and expect to see in the future, someone has to break the mold. No company would be able to achieve this without breaking EPEAT standards. But in time and with new breakthroughs in computing and design, meeting those standards (though they will probably change) will once again be achievable.

I mean... weren't we supposed to already have video newspapers that could be thrown away without a second thought?

As things stand right now, we are not gaining much by decreasing the thickness of our computers. What we really need is an innovation (a breakthrough) in preservation of our planet. Apple got their priorities all wrong. Well, obviously their priority is profits. It is government's task (expressing our will and priorities) to set the priorities straight. Introduce steep tax for producing un-recyclable computers and the next MBP will be a complete opposite of the current model.
 
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