Apple Pulls VPN Apps From China App Store As Russia Signs Law Banning Their Use

[RogerWilco]

When Russia bans VPNs it's an outrage. When China does the same it's "just business". When the EU follows suit, it's for the good of all.

And when Congress here in the Land of the Free gets around to banning VPNs, Apple will be right there to help make it so.

 

[BeefCake 15]

China has the biggest standing army in the world and a nuclear arsenal that can easily reach any mainland U.S., Asian, or European city, even simultaneously. No country or countries or international body is going to risk potential annihilation or blood bath by prominently escalating China's lack of human rights, much as they'd like to. It's done "behind the scene" as much as possible, but China is a powerhouse and mostly immune to world pressure. It can't be pushed around.

Yeah, U.S only flexes with the safe ones like Cuba

 

[asiga]

I would start by prohibiting Google-like, Facebook-like, Apple-like, and everycompany-like agreements in the form of "by using our services you agree to give us rights over your data". If such agreements were prohibited in a way that rights over user data always required a paper-signed contract, the world would be much better.

 

[spiffers]

I never thought I would say something negative regarding Apple, but here it comes. Apple was one of the strongest advocating freedom of speech and human rights, but with this move, its really clear Apple does not care much about human rights or freedom of speech. They care about freedom to sell their products to everybody on the planet. So giving up essential rights seems like a minor bump in the road.

Tim has for a while displayed himself as a knight high up on a white horse, fighting off government demands right and left, defending the impregnable iProducts, shaking fists towards three letter agencies. Now Tim resembles a lanky teenager sitting on a miniature pony, scared to death by all the bullies around him.

Taking this in consideration, it does not surprise me anyore that they are going from TouchID to facial recognition, letting the big bullies force the iDevice users to look at their screens, unlocking all the darkest secrets, a feast for said three letter agencies.

Ride Tim, ride!

 

[nicho]

If such agreements were prohibited in a way that rights over user data always required a paper-signed contract, the world would be much better.

By mail, or by queueing up at an office to sign up?

 

[justperry]

When Russia bans VPNs it's an outrage. When China does the same it's "just business". When the EU follows suit, it's for the good of all.

And when Congress here in the Land of the Free gets around to banning VPNs, Apple will be right there to help make it so.

The EU has other plans than what you think, they are planning a law that gives people right on encryption and software without backdoors, so it's 180 degrees from what you said.

 

[nicho]

The EU has other plans than what you think, they are planning a law that gives people right on encryption and software without backdoors, so it's 180 degrees from what you said.

While member states national governments cry out for more backdoors into or bans on encrypted messaging? Can't see that happening.

 

[justperry]

I never thought I would say something negative regarding Apple, but here it comes. Apple was one of the strongest advocating freedom of speech and human rights, but with this move, its really clear Apple does not care much about human rights or freedom of speech. They care about freedom to sell their products to everybody on the planet. So giving up essential rights seems like a minor bump in the road.

Tim has for a while displayed himself as a knight high up on a white horse, fighting off government demands right and left, defending the impregnable iProducts, shaking fists towards three letter agencies. Now Tim resembles a lanky teenager sitting on a miniature pony, scared to death by all the bullies around him.

Taking this in consideration, it does not surprise me anyore that they are going from TouchID to facial recognition, letting the big bullies force the iDevice users to look at their screens, unlocking all the darkest secrets, a feast for said three letter agencies.

Ride Tim, ride!

Think twice before you write the above.

Tim would get fired instantly if he says they would leave the China market for not allowing these VPN Apps, investors will instantly demand his resignation.

While member states national governments cry out for more backdoors into or bans on encrypted messaging? Can't see that happening.

It will, oh, and btw, the UK is 'out' so they don't count anymore.

 

[nicho]

It will, oh, and btw, the UK is 'out' so they don't count anymore.

The UK has never really had that much clout in the EU anyway. Not as much as, say, France and Germany.

 

[Stella]

No different than most other companies. If profits are at risk, any concerns about human rights are quickly forgotten!

 

[manu chao]

It has been blocking all along, though Chinese government has not been act on VPN and other method of access illegal contents.

Currently, with all the "harmful" content, according to Chinese government, Chinese government decided to ban VPNs.

I think though for the foreigners who work and study in China, who are in special economy zone, they still able to access internet unrestricted. Great Firewall doesn't work with foreigners using foreign carrier roaming services (roaming for prolonged time will getting very expensive)

China has tried to interfere with VPN services for several years. Here is an article from 2015 about China blocking VPN services. Here is an article from 2016 listing all the methods China is using to hinder VPNs. Here is an article from earlier this year reporting that China has played a cat and mouse game for years with VPN services.

 

[spiffers]

Think twice before you write the above.

Caving in for denying VPN hosts on the device is enabling scensorship, monitoring, invading personal privacy, nothing less than what he stood up against in 2016. But China and Russia is just the beginning. Trump may be the next one making such demands.

 

[nicho]

China has tried to interfere with VPN services for several years. Here is an article from 2015 about China blocking VPN services. Here is an article from 2016 listing all the methods China is using to hinder VPNs. Here is an article from earlier this year reporting that China has played a cat and mouse game for years with VPN services.

If anything, making it harder to get a VPN app (which isn't usually necessary anyway, just a ton more convenient) is just an extension of those practices.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I would start by prohibiting Google-like, Facebook-like, Apple-like, and everycompany-like agreements in the form of "by using our services you agree to give us rights over your data". If such agreements were prohibited in a way that rights over user data always required a paper-signed contract, the world would be much better.

Yes, because the world was perfect when such pen and ink signatures were the only way.

 

[iZac]

Not that I agree with this blanket banning of VPNs, most Chinese nationals that actually care about getting through the firewall will have an international Apple ID, just to get access to the USA and other app stores, so this makes little difference. There's a thousand different ways to get past the firewall, but the methods keep changing because of the (slow) cat and mouse game that the Government play with internet users.

At the end of the day, if a user is intelligent and educated enough to get through to foreign or banned content, then they are probably trustworthy enough to be able to handle a differing perspective and use that knowledge in a responsible manner.

 

[nicho]

At the end of the day, if a user is intelligent and educated enough to get through to foreign or banned content, then they are probably trustworthy enough to be able to handle a differing perspective and use that knowledge in a responsible manner.

Or riled enough to do something dangerous with it.

 

[Zirel]

At least Communism brought China to second largest economy... We Chinese are enjoying our life under Communism eceryday... I have lived aboard for past few years and I have seen the inefficiency and slowness underlined in western democracy... I truely believe CPP is only party can govern China and Western style democracy won't work with China.

With 1.3 billion people, it ought to be!

Enjoy non-communism while you can, because in a couple of months, the Chinese government will come after the VPN you are using and you won’t be able to post here anymore!

 

[justperry]

Caving in for denying VPN hosts on the device is enabling scensorship, monitoring, invading personal privacy, nothing less than what he stood up against in 2016. But China and Russia is just the beginning. Trump may be the next one making such demands.

Quote my whole message and read what I said, Tim would get fired and you know that.

 

[DaveP]

Nope, I'm arguing there should be the ability to control that spread of fake news. Widespread use of VPNs dilutes that. Like @LovingTeddy says above, it's about finding balance. But people on the outside really can't be the arbiters of said balance, because the mindset of people living in China is just so different. Go to the plains of Africa and read the Constitution to a lion, and see what it does next. It's a different set of circumstances.

Yes, you need to find balance. Much like balancing tanks on top of pro-democracy protestors in Tiananmen square.

Though it is true that just forcing Western ideals on other country is often not a good idea. The increased democratization and freedom in business has been very beneficial for Chinese citizens in general. The West's hope is that will lead to similar reforms in human rights and personal freedoms. But these can be changes that take generations.

 

[RickInHouston]

I never thought I would say something negative regarding Apple, but here it comes. Apple was one of the strongest advocating freedom of speech and human rights, but with this move, its really clear Apple does not care much about human rights or freedom of speech. They care about freedom to sell their products to everybody on the planet. So giving up essential rights seems like a minor bump in the road.

Tim has for a while displayed himself as a knight high up on a white horse, fighting off government demands right and left, defending the impregnable iProducts, shaking fists towards three letter agencies. Now Tim resembles a lanky teenager sitting on a miniature pony, scared to death by all the bullies around him.

Taking this in consideration, it does not surprise me anyore that they are going from TouchID to facial recognition, letting the big bullies force the iDevice users to look at their screens, unlocking all the darkest secrets, a feast for said three letter agencies.

Ride Tim, ride!

I feel this is only one step. If apple gets into AI hard, that's when they really nuke the floodgates...

 

[DaveP]

Caving in for denying VPN hosts on the device is enabling scensorship, monitoring, invading personal privacy, nothing less than what he stood up against in 2016. But China and Russia is just the beginning. Trump may be the next one making such demands.

You use the correct terminology: "demands". Legally, Trump can't actually ban VPN's. However, I would argue that it does point to the problem of increased government and specifically executive branch power that both parties have increased whenever "their guy" is in charge. While VPN bans would not be possible today, I could envision some sort of VPN restrictions in the future with a legal justification stemming from the perpetually declared war against terror.

 

[usarioclave]

Multi-culturalism only applies when you're talking about countries that aren't yours. If it's your country that's doing things you don't like it's all outrage, foaming at the mouth, and missives to employees. Other countries? Not so much.

 

[LovingTeddy]

With 1.3 billion people, it ought to be!

Enjoy non-communism while you can, because in a couple of months, the Chinese government will come after the VPN you are using and you won’t be able to post here anymore!

They are already doing that. While i am in Canada for now, but I often stay in China for few months a year. I wouldn't able to access any Google services.

So i have other email, other twitter like service, Baidu Maps, Baidu Search etc on my phone. I can use these service to communicate with my other family and friend in Canada. Banking and other services are not blocked, so I can still do my banking and pay my bill. So not much impacted

 

[MrX8503]

This is quite a bit different from the fight with the FBI.

1. Tim lives in the US, not Russia or China
2. Blocking VPNs is nothing compared to going thermo nuclear with what the FBI wanted, which was a skeleton key.

 

[spiffers]

Quote my whole message and read what I said, Tim would get fired and you know that.

Still, my observations stands. Apple sacrified human rights and freedom of speech for their freedom of selling devices. Getting fired or not, that is just the facts.

PS: Regarding quotes, I hate when folks posts quotes after quotes, it takes space and brings visual noise. When quoting your name, and the first sentence, you know which post Im answering.