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http://ark.intel.com/products/47925?wapkw=e5620
That's almost $390 PER CPU. There's two of these guys in an 8-core Mac Pro. When the new Xeons hit, expect performance to triple while keeping the same cost.
Making custom boards to handle 2 CPUs is very expensive. $450 for the motherboard.
6GB memory costs ~$40.
Hard drives cost is $110.
GPU which needs custom casing, etc. would go for around $170.
Casing would cost $200-300 to build.
PSU cost to handle all this would be $100.
SuperDrive cost is $30.

That's an estimated $2000 material cost. That's $1200 more than your fail part list.

Not only would moving to even dual quad-core i5 be a terrible drop in performance, it would just be plain stupid. Very, VERY stupid.

WOw first of all you didn't read my post. That parts list is for the single socket config. Second a sandy bridge i5 walks all over those aging 2008 nehalam that the single socket mac pros use. Third you have no idea the difference between a xeon and the core i series do you.


450? ehh?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131378
 
All correct. Because it's in line with market realities. I can't help it if some people find market realities uncomfortable. It's for everyone to come to terms with in their own way.

Isn't it a bit odd that you'd post 20+ times in a thread for Mac Pro users and fans and have nothing but negative things to say about a product you don't use? If one didn't know better, they might think that you were intentionally trying to provoke people.
 
Someone show me a iMac or Mac Mini that can possibly edit in near real time all the next generation high end video & create all the content that is coming down the line. 4k video is here now (4096×3072 at 24/30/60 fps) 3d is here (stereo 4k images) . 5k capture systems are already here with RED cameras. Your shooting in 5K, editing in 4k. Wait another 3 years and REDs next camera will capturing even more bits per frame.

Apple should still serve the needs of the content creation industry. Who else is going to make all the content that we consume on our iOS devices?
 
Apple Profit =)
the high end market has always been high margin.

Some of it is profit. The rest goes to support and R&D costs.

Yes, obviously. I just didn't understand what Prodo was getting at with the tone of his post seemingly wanting to prove blackhand wrong, when he did the same break down for the dual processor model and got a similar result.
 
Mac Pro component-line

Why not turn the Mac Pro line into a component line for enthusiasts and professionals. The tower design is what drives everything. Yes there are new and improved options available but the whole benefit for having a Mac Pro is being able to take advantage of less expensive options. My Mac Pro has 8 hard drives and RAID 10. It sits 2 feet away from me on my desk. No other tower runs to quietly that you could put it on your desk. It plugs into my (2) 30 inch monitors. I can't plug these monitors into one Macbook Pro or iMac.

Just sell the components and let us build Apple computers!! What's wrong with that? It also creates a lot of business for vendors to support Apple computers. It doesn't even make sense to buy a new Mac Pro because you end up replacing the drives anyway.
 
This is a long time coming. All most pros really need is an i7 Imac with some PCI/PCIe slots.

If a Thunderbolt to PCIe adapter really worked/existed, then the Mac Pro is dead.

The only caveat to all my arguments is that this would leave a gaping hole in the Mac lineup that hackintoshes will rush to fill. I don't think Apple would be too happy with that and that in itself might be the strongest reason to keep the MacPro lineup alive.

The one I saw is in the $4,500 range. That is only the box, power supply, & pci/e slots. This means that memory, storage, CPU, & video cards are all extra. Thus costs are much higher & performance is much lower. Typical new iOS Apple.
 
Are you telling me all the engineers at Apple are going to work from a mac mini? It seems that they need serious computing power and expandability like i do.
 
If this happens...I predict a huge boom in high-end Hackintosh builds.

Hackintoshes are too big of a pain in the ass to deal with. They're fun for hobbyists, but big pro studios wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.

If Apple EOLs the Mac Pro line, then all these people would flock straight to Windows 7/8, no questions asked. It's not like they'll be sacrificing much. Win7 is just as stable and powerful as OSX these days.

Really, Apple has nothing to gain, and alot to lose by killing off the Mac Pro.
 
Hopefully Apple Insider are wrong

I got banned from the Apple Insider web site for 10 days for ripping the author of a similar article a new ******. You can only wonder and be very scared of the MORONS coming out of our public schools and colleges these days when I see articles like this. Sure.... desktops are now 30% of the computers Apple sells instead of the 70% they used to. How many BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars does that 30% represent? Who is so stupid to believe that although we've lost our mentor Steve Jobs, that they went and brought back that guy from Pepsi that nearly destroyed Apple way back in the day.

Saying the Mac Pro is doomed completely is like saying that all cars will be banned because someone got killed yesterday in one. It's an idea that is so completely void of any common sense, ... or general logic.

I was bummed that they canned the X-serve... I so wanted one for my home server, love rack mount. But the truth is that I think there will always be a need and desire, and therefore... billion dollar market place... for a big Apple box. I would think with the advent of thunderbolt they might be able to downsize the tower just a hair as we move our hard drives out of the computer... or until the next new bad ass technology comes along.

The fact remains, no matter how much I love my iPad, iMacs and MacBooks.... you just can't shove the kind of computing horsepower in them that you can put in a tower style box with good ventilation.

I also seem to remember an article about the Mac Mini going the way of the dodo for several years in a row.... OMG... Just checked the store.. They're still selling it.

This article shows that it's author as little to no business sense whatsoever .... Something I had grown accustomed to seeing on Apple Insider (why I never go there any more either).

Get a Brain MacRumors
 
I don't know what professionals you are talking about, but go into any editorial/finishing house, movie studio, professional audio house here in Los Angeles and no one is using iMacs or Minis.

Our studio is all Mac based and this would kill Macs for us, we would have to go Linux.

Professional apps are finally taking Apple serious again but Apple doesn't seem to be taking professionals seriously anymore.

Most professionals that use desktop macs are using iMacs at this point. So the majority does not need Mac Pro to do the job they are doing. The problem will be for those few who definitely need a Mac Pro. I also hope they don't drop the Mac Pro line, but it's absurd to think one needs a Mac Pro to create content. Most don't.
 
In a $3,499 system, so his question of where is the other $1,500 going still stands.

Of course you can build a more than year-old system at those specs for less now. Plus Apple wants to make a profit as well. When the 4-core 2.5Ghz procs first came out, you can bet they cost a bit more than $314 a pop. Bump it up to 6-cores per and now you are looking at over $1200 PER CPU. In a year, those 6-cores will be $300 once the new architectures come out.

That's almost $1500 right there.
 
Isn't it a bit odd that you'd post 20+ times in a thread for Mac Pro users and fans and have nothing but negative things to say about a product you don't use? If one didn't know better, they might think that you were intentionally trying to provoke people.
It is just the usual post to chime in about their surprise that the Mac Pro is still alive to begin with. I have never seen them post in a Mac Pro thread off of Page 1. Maybe the threads are just too technical.
 
Though the sad fact remains that it is the only Mac that can natively support more than 1 hard drive at once. You can pull it off in MBPs but at the loss of the CD drive (and using third party equipment).

I'm sure you can have a SSD boot drive and HDD in the current iMac?
 
Hackintoshes are too big of a pain in the ass to deal with. They're fun for hobbyists, but big pro studios wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.

If Apple EOLs the Mac Pro line, then all these people would flock straight to Windows 7/8, no questions asked. It's not like they'll be sacrificing much. Win7 is just as stable and powerful as OSX these days.

Really, Apple has nothing to gain, and alot to lose by killing off the Mac Pro.

If Apple has a lot to lose and nothing to gain by killing off the Mac Pro, they wouldn't do it. If they do it, that means they have less to lose than to gain.

You are incorrect about one thing though. If Apple EOL's Mac Pro, at first nothing will happen. Mac Pro's are not machines people upgrade each cycle. Most people would wait several years to see if Apple offers anything for their market later on. And then, only then, if they don't find anything they like, will they migrate to either Win/Linux, or to iMac/Mini.
 
Dropping the Mac Pro would mean the end of my business with Apple, unfortunately. I have a 2009 Mac Pro and an iPhone. I also have a new Android phone and a PC. Right now, the non-Apple stuff is working better than the Apple gear, and if Apple doesn't get it together with updating their high-end gear, there will be absolutely no reason for me to stay with them.

Sad, but it's not the end of the world. I'm more for actual performance than hype anyway, and it seems like Apple is more and more about hype these days. :( Just my perception, anyway.
 
Right. Biz is biz. And most businesses, Apple especially, should want to keep everyone inside their ecosystems.

If Apple continues down the path they're taking, it might potentially cost them in the future. See, the iPad is going to become more powerful, more capable, as time goes on. To harness that power, software programmers, graphic artists, game developers, are going to need access to heavier computers. Computers that Apple won't provide, since they've decided to focus solely on the consumer at the expense of the creative professional.

What this means is that these people will migrate en masse to Windows platforms. That won't matter much to Apple's bottom line in the short term, since they're only a relatively small demographic, offset by all the millions of people for whom an iDevice will fit their needs perfectly.

But here's the thing. Apple requires you to own a Mac product to publish apps for the iDevices. Yet if things continue they way they are (or seem to be going, rather), then developers will have to buy a Windows machine to make their stuff. This adds extra, unnecessary complications to the process. Complications that the creative professional might not be willing to put up with, specially when the competition makes the process of making and distributing apps so much easier. They'll think "why should I have to buy a workstation AND spend extra money on a Macbook Air that's only good to me for getting my apps on the app store, when they other guy allows me to develop and publish everything from the same machine. Give me an ecosystem That Just Works".

Take away those creative professionals, and you don't have your apps. If you don't have your apps, then all those millions of consumers will flock to the platform that does. So small though they may be, they are a key demographic to the continued success of the iDevices.

Thank you for such a clear example of the danger of destroying an ecosystem by making the "apex predator" extinct.

And to keep things clear, I am not arguing that Apple should maintain a system line that's not directly contributing to the bottom line.

I'm saying that *if* Apple decides to kill the Mac Pro for low profits, that the EOL announcement should be coupled with an announcement of a partnership for Apple OSX support on certain workstations from (one or more of) HP/IBM/Dell/SuperMicro. (At the same time, I'd hope that the announcement would also include a partnership to support Apple OSX Server on some servers from the same partners, and support for virtualized Apple OSX client and server.)

We all know that the Maiden site has very, very few Apple systems in it (and those are mostly support/command consoles). It's not a sign of weakness to say that "we're not going to make systems for this market segment, but we're partnering with ** to support customers who need such systems". It's a sign of a smart focus on your core strengths.
 
Someone show me a iMac or Mac Mini that can possibly edit in near real time all the next generation high end video & create all the content that is coming down the line. 4k video is here now (4096×3072 at 24/30/60 fps) 3d is here (stereo 4k images) . 5k capture systems are already here with RED cameras. Your shooting in 5K, editing in 4k. Wait another 3 years and REDs next camera will capturing even more bits per frame.

Apple should still serve the needs of the content creation industry. Who else is going to make all the content that we consume on our iOS devices?

Remember what Apple did with Final Cut Pro? That should answer any questions about Apple's interest in the Mac Pro line...
 
I don't know what professionals you are talking about, but go into any editorial/finishing house, movie studio, professional audio house here in Los Angeles and no one is using iMacs or Minis.

Our studio is all Mac based and this would kill Macs for us, we would have to go Linux.

Professional apps are finally taking Apple serious again but Apple doesn't seem to be taking professionals seriously anymore.

Your idea of professionals is highly limited. Many desktop publishing / graphic design houses don't use Mac Pro's, nor do they need to anymore. Not to mention journalists, writers, software developers, which wouldn't ever need a Mac Pro to do their job.
 
Hackintoshes are too big of a pain in the ass to deal with. They're fun for hobbyists, but big pro studios wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.

If Apple EOLs the Mac Pro line, then all these people would flock straight to Windows 7/8, no questions asked. It's not like they'll be sacrificing much. Win7 is just as stable and powerful as OSX these days.

Really, Apple has nothing to gain, and alot to lose by killing off the Mac Pro.

As a side, I've tried the Hackintosh route. It really is a pain. Either you have a system where everything (mostly) works, or you spend eternity in Kext hell, and have nightmares about software update.
 
Of course you can build a more than year-old system at those specs for less now. Plus Apple wants to make a profit as well. When the 4-core 2.5Ghz procs first came out, you can bet they cost a bit more than $314 a pop. Bump it up to 6-cores per and now you are looking at over $1200 PER CPU. In a year, those 6-cores will be $300 once the new architectures come out.

That's almost $1500 right there.

Aren't you forgetting the fact that upgrading to the 6 cores in the 12 isn't free. Then the price goes up to 5000. Again look there it is that 1500 on top again. And apples already paying less than it would cost us to build it. They are making more than 1500 a machine. That is way more than enough especially from a company with 80 billion in cash. But I guess people here would rather give apple extra money and get ripped off then get a good value and apple still makes profit. Those nehalam cpus were base level at the time and are still base level. It was overpriced then and its overpriced now.


Wow how does dell do this and still make profit. The mighty apple needs to charge 2500. People here need to get in touch with reality. Apple isn't your friend who you need to help get more profit.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...n&s=soho&cs=ussoho1&model_id=precision-t3500&
 
how does no one see this coming.

Apple makes MP3 players and Cell Phones. They appeal to "different" folk now.

Honestly we are better off just make sure you know how to use a PC.
 
I still don't think at this point a mac mini cluster would be a suitable replacement the mac pro -- especially since it lacks drive access and expandability.
You're missing the point with this sort of configuration... Storage would be on a SAN system, and the Mini cluster attached via Fibre Channel or 10G Ethernet (InfiniBand over TB wouldn't really be a good solution due to the additional latency introduced by TB; InfiniBand was designed explicitly for low latency).

An iMac with a bunch of TB devices plugged into it, 10 minis? Why not just buy a self contained machine like a Mac Pro or an HP Z series and be done with it? You're trying to compensate for Apple's minimalist approach.
If you're talking about a desktop, the Mini's have limitations. But as a cluster, those limitations actually reduce. They don't disappear entirely (FC or 10G Ethernet over TB is still throttled a bit for example, and InfiniBand isn't an option). But the cost/performance ratio is quite good for such systems (not just the Mini), and will make such solutions attractive where viable.

The point is, soon when we get dual channel 100mbit TB, daisy chaining minis will give the same CPU power as Mac Pro, so as long as we can add GPU's, it'll actually kill any need of a Mac Pro.
TB is currently 10Gb/s, with it claimed to be capable of 100Gb/s (optical).

The Mac Pro is at the top of the Apple ecosystem. Make it extinct, and you may discover that its value to the ecosystem was far more than its per-quarter profits.
I'm not convinced of this, as creative content can be developed on Windows and Linux platforms (OS X doesn't have a monopoly here).

And for software development, they could chose to use an iMac, especially if it's the top tier desktop. Or they could also opt for a Linux or Windows system (they own the OS X IP, so hacking their own OS to work on different hardware is actually viable).

I'm not sure that Apple gets it, though. MBA Tim and the bean counters might not get it.
They may, or may not get it. But regardless, they're business people, and will use things like ROI to guide their decisions.

So if the ROI on the MP is horrible to their way of thinking, it's going to be EOL'ed. It's really as simple as that.

I love your style of thinking. I seriously hope this the way Apple goes, towards modularity. In the future, this modularity could even apply to the MBA, MB Pro & iPad line. You want more CPU, GPU, & storage, just daisy chain through Thunderbolt.

With optical cabling, Thunderbolt's potential is 100Gpbs. Once that happens there's no need for internal expansion.

Workstation-class equipment has needs that can't be faked by daisy-chaining laptop-class equipment. Either you need the power or you don't. If you need it then you have to buy this class of equipment that is almost at the same level as server-class equipment.
Keep in mind, that computing is turning back the clock in a sense. More and more users are going to be turned to the cloud, so their systems/devices are more like terminals of the past (no need to be very powerful, just access the main system over a network).

Now I realize your point, and it's correct. But the workstation market is changing, as is Apple. And unfortunately, Apple has already abandoned the server market, and the MP isn't generating the growth rates that would keep it a highly profitable product. So the likelihood of it being EOL'ed is high.

Now given Apple's focus has been directed towards devices and other consumer products, it seems to me they're well aware of this, and have been planning accordingly (probably began in earnest once they realized what they had with the original iPhone). Which means they've known for some time that the MP, at least in it's current form, wasn't going to remain around for much longer.

The list of add-ons you can't attach to a Mac mini is very long. Even if there was a third-party market for SAS controllers and SDI add-on card that would work through Thunderbolt, how would you ever attach something that approaches two NVIDIA Quadro cards connected through SLI?
  1. Think of a cluster attached to a SAN (Mini's aren't meant to replace workstations, particularly with all but one model are dual core systems, but would make decent, cheap clusters).
  2. In terms of GPGPU processing, the data between the system and the GPU's isn't that large compared to the data generated during the processing between the GPU's (resides in the GPU's VRAM). Then the completed results are sent back, but it's not that large either (i.e. single value returned per variable). So TB for GPGPU processing is actually possible.
Wouldn't it be great, if you could just add as solid dual-power-unit server to your server rack that runs OS X to manage mobile devices and desktops in your company or institution? That should gain them more users and really solidify their position from an ecosystem standpoint, shouldn't it?
Apple blew it in the enterprise market, as there wasn't sufficient follow-through (not enough hardware options, or software integration). So their offerings suffered from low sales, and they had to EOL the XServe as a result.

I would suggest instead that people lobby Apple to allow OSX to run on a small set of top-tier x64 servers from HP/IBM/Dell/SuperMicro, including running virtualized on ESX or Hyper-V.
I'd love to see this, but I don't see this happening unless they dump ever computer model they sell, and concentrate solely on devices, iOS, and content delivery.
 
I'm sure you can have a SSD boot drive and HDD in the current iMac?

Yes that is technically correct although I believe that there would not be space for 2 full sized hard drives inside the iMac (aka the SSD is squeezed in there somehow!)
 
Heck - even if you had the chance to buy a Mac Mini with the internals of the top-of-the-line iMac it would be the better business decision as (and now I bold that so you may see my point) there is absolutely no logical reason to throw out around 300 bucks every two years for a new display than being forced to do it by Apple!

First of all this article is pure speculation. They don't have sources. They're simply echoing what has been stated on all of the mac forums.


If they started using desktop parts and allowed for some decent gpu options in a mini, I'd buy one. Right now you have the portability of a desktop with the speed and ram capacity of a laptop. No one ever asked for a headless macbook pro :p.
 
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