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Apple 'Questioning' the Future of its Mac Pro Line?

nanofrog said:
I based it on base model, and selected the same CPUID.
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In other words, you can comparing CPUs not systems. That is not a system to system (apples to apples ) comparison.

the 3500 throws out features (besides the CPU) that the 5500 has. The Mac Pros don't.



As per the enclosure, for some, this could be an issue (3x 3.5" HDD bays vs. 4 in the MP). But it also includes an eSATA port, which the MP doesn't, so that sort of evens out IMO, as it can easily handle a backup drive/PM enclosure with multiple disks = not possible in the MP without consuming a PCIe slot.
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If downsizing the cases didn't make a difference then why didn't Dell use the 5500 case with the different CPUID ? Just a tiny bit of common sense illustrates that this isn't "apples-to-apples" comparisons. That is standard backdoor for inserting the "Apple should sells mini or mid towers system that compete in the iMac price zone" arguments. Otherwise you keep that systems close to the same space.

CPU by themselves don't determine markets.
 
While the mac pro might represent a small portion of their hardware sales, one has to remember that Apple also makes software. I bet almost every mac pro runs some version of Final Cut Pro and if you take away these machines people will switch software. When the pros stop using it apple will have lost a serious bit of revenue. I think they will keep on the pro line, making sure that professionals will continue to use their product, which is beneficial to the company on so many levels.
While they might not make a huge return on the Mac Pro line, its not like apple is losing any money by selling them, and mac pros are certainly not cutting into the sales of other apple computers. If you want a mac pro you won't settle for a mac mini, but you would probably just switch to windows.
 
bretm said:
Sounds like somebody needs a wake up call. When you're dealing in After effects and a 30sec animation is looking at a 5-10 hour render on a 12 core macine with 32 gigs of RAM, how do you think that sounds on an iMac where it would be more like 20-30 hours?

Without the Mac Pro, Apple isn't taken seriously as a computer company. It may not be a huge profit item, but they need it.
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Damn I actually forgot about how long that stuff actually takes LOL. Wow.

I can't see how it is not a handsome profit for them? Reading this thread I see a hell of a lot of Mac Pros out there apparently. Apple has to be pulling in some good profit on each one of those. Perhaps they are doing it wrong? How many does Dell and HP sell? They aren't whining (HP not for the moment at least) about their PC profits.

Am I the only one finding this high possibility ****** weird??? Like perhaps Steve made everyone do some kind of drugs there and they are a nuthouse?
 
LagunaSol said:
Not cool, Apple. Ceding any part of the consumer (including prosumers and pros) computer business at this point would be shortsighted.

It's a great thing to expand into the consumer electronics and smartphone business, but don't forget your historical core.
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It's called supply and demand, dear historian. If this turns out to be true Apple for sure won't be keeping a product line just for few consumers compared to other product lines.

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darthraige said:
Clearly Apple doesn't care about Pros anymore, especially after the release of "iMovie Pro." Seem to make more money from consumers. What a joke.
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Now go away.
 
KnightWRX said:
I think his point is that your niche of "professionals" is too small to sustain the fixed costs associated with producing a model that fits your needs. He's not denying you exist or that your workflow requires the power, he's just saying you're now not big enough of a blip on the radar to justify the continued existence of the Mac Pro in Apple's eye.

I tend to agree. Computing power increases faster than software can keep up.
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Then you simply do not know what you are talking about as the other poster stated to the prior post you responded to. You too need a LOT better education before speaking on the subject here. When you state "Computing power increases faster than software can keep up." that is a totally false statement.

For people like myself that are professional 3D artists, the software not only has kept up but is often so cutting edge that the hardware does not. Programs such as C4D, Maya, Vue, etc. can take FULL advantage of everything you throw at it and use as much power as you have available. See my other post about how I use the Mac Pro, not just one, but several as part of a "render farm" as "nodes". I can use as much power as currently available to buy and then some and it never stops for me.
 
7 years ago you have Telecine which produces a SD video that is conformed to film (2K not 4K). No one ever did 4K video on a G5 or even early Intel Mac Pros. 4K is rough even for current generation Mac Pros which is why films are still done offline at either SD or HD. most films are still 2K. Some visual effects heavy movies do parts at 4K or even 6k but for the most part things are done at 2K.


iBug2 said:
Then how were people cutting feature length Hollywood films 7 years ago on G5's?

I'm not saying that it'd be a easy workflow, but you can theoretically cut a 4k film as long as you have enough RAM. CPU only speeds it up. It doesn't make it possible or impossible.
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BRLawyer said:
MARK my words: with SJ gone, this means the MacPro will die and the fabled xMac will come to the fore, to the joy of many (myself NOT included)...
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I was actually thinking the opposite. Steve was the visionary. The one pushing the company forward not only because he knew his time was limited, but because it was so clear to him where he was taking it. Without that insight, it is hard to make moves as bold as killing a product line.
 
I believe this whole speculation (not rumour) is theoretically possible. And it's all because of the iMac. The hardcore pros will always buy their Mac Pros. But the semi pros, prosumers and even small business owners currently see the iMac as a much better business decision. And it is.

The iMac is better priced so it can be upgraded more often. Comes with a lovely screen that is upgraded each time too. And can to 95% of the tasks most people throw at it. I think these are the reasons more people are opting for iMacs over Mac Pros these days.

And this is driving down Mac Pro sales. There will always be a need for the Mac Pro. The question is when does the Mac Pro niché become so small that it's not economically viable for Apple to keep building them? That is the question.

In short the Mac Pro sees less sales cause the cheaper iMac is just so good.
 
bretm said:
Sounds like somebody needs a wake up call. When you're dealing in After effects and a 30sec animation is looking at a 5-10 hour render on a 12 core macine with 32 gigs of RAM, how do you think that sounds on an iMac where it would be more like 20-30 hours?
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Have you ever heard about Xgrid? I guess not. 12-core Mac Pro costs 5000 that's 4 1199 iMacs right there - 16 Cores - upgrade memory and you get 64 GB of RAM and 4 quite nice 21.5 inch displays.

There is a saying that for a bad dancer even his own balls are in his way.

Without the Mac Pro, Apple isn't taken seriously as a computer company. It may not be a huge profit item, but they need it.
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When something is only in your head it's called delusion.
 
How would you know? Do you work in the industry. Windows is way more a pain in the ass for pipeline work than OS X is, actually macs give you the best of both worlds, you get professional apps, great support from the companies that produce them, works great in a pipeline, and you can run Adobe products. Quadros are decent GPUs for 3D.

iBug2 said:
I'd recommend that your studio switches to Win/Linux even if Apple does not kill Mac Pro. Heavy duty 3D work on Mac is a pain in the ass. You can't get a decent GPU, you can't find major plugins, it's not worth it. As a market, 3D is not something Apple ever supported or cared about.

Although you are wrong if you think professional work = maya. That'd be like 1/10000 of all professional areas one can work in.
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This is just devastating if true. Macs began as a pro level, non consumer based computer. In 1984-1990 or so, these computers were priced out of consumer range and for pros and high end users.

Apple kept going in the 90s because of its pro consumers and hardcore fans. If the Pro model is being stopped in favor of ipads, ipods, itv whatever, that means apple is turning their backs on the users who have been with the macs since the beginning, the professional user.

Unreal.
 
deconstruct60 said:
If downsizing the cases didn't make a difference then why didn't Dell use the 5500 case with the different CPUID ?
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Because the 5500 case is as big as a Mac Pro, and the 3500 case is a much smaller mid-tower.

And an implicit part of your question is the idea of choice - which is hard for many Apple users to understand.

Dell lets you choose between smaller case (3500) and larger case (5500).

If you want to pay more for the larger case with more expandability - you can. But you're not forced to.

Choice. Maybe that we're now in the "post-Jobs" world Apple will offer more of it.

(Note that Dell also offers a 1600 mini-tower workstation if even the 3500 is overkill for you....)
 
VivaLaDricas said:
Another thought. If Apple is getting this gun happy killing products, and if the new MBP becomes very Air like, then where is exactly the competition for Windows? They are not making a diverse lineup to try to grab 20% maybe a shade more marketshare, and how many times do you read here "Competition is a good thing" Quite a lot. Apple has the only shot at eating some share from MS, but its like they refuse to want to do it.

Apple trying to gain market is good for PC's in general, if they get content with the 5-8% whatever it is worldwide share, then I think thats a serious problem.
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Apple kills products only when they don't sell. At this point the MBP, especially 13", is still very successful, it's not clear which sells more right now between the MBP and the MBA; apparently it's the latter, but not in a way that warrants phasing out the MBP.
That the two will converge is expectable but it will take quite a while. For that to happen, there has to be SSD's of up to half-TB capacity available at a price that allows to meet that price point of $1,199. That's still a long way.
I don't get the last part of your post... Apple IS consistently gaining market share over Windows PC. I don't think it's reasonable to expect the Mac to achieve double-digit global market share that fast. Even from a product-supply perspective, that would be basically impossible at this time to almost double the production capacity.
 
Aren't there enough pros to petition Apple to keep the Pro line going?
Surely this of any age ought to be able to collectively catch Tim Cooks ear.

Or will they see it as asking for faster horses?

As a 3D animator, Id be OK with a new form factor as long as it was modular/expandable/had plenty of grunt etc.
 
MacFanJeff said:
For people like myself that are professional 3D artists, the software not only has kept up but is often so cutting edge that the hardware does not. Programs such as C4D, Maya, Vue, etc. can take FULL advantage of everything you throw at it and use as much power as you have available. See my other post about how I use the Mac Pro, not just one, but several as part of a "render farm" as "nodes". I can use as much power as currently available to buy and then some and it never stops for me.
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Please give Apple your feedback directly. The more people who do, the higher the chance Apple will continue to pay attention to this market.
 
How important?

Just to put some numbers in perspective:

When it was announced that Steve Jobs had passed away in October, there was 3,638 comments in the macrumors forum
https://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/05/steve-jobs-has-passed-away/

That was 4 weeks ago. This Mac Pro future in question thread is only a few hours old and already has 845 comments as I type this. At this pace, it will reach anywhere between 1,000 and 2,000 comments. Somewhere around half the amount of Steve Jobs death reaction.

Nobody needs or care about Mac Pros?
Really?
 
dkouts said:
Aren't there enough pros to petition Apple to keep the Pro line going?
Surely this of any age ought to be able to collectively catch Tim Cooks ear.

Or will they see it as asking for faster horses?

As a 3D animator, Id be OK with a new form factor as long as it was modular/expandable/had plenty of grunt etc.
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There probably are enough interested people on MR alone to get a petition started. But it would be best to do it before the demise of the Mac Pro is announced.
 
darthraige said:
I've boughten every tower line for my PROFESSIONAL needs. It's sad that Apple would just stop making them if this holds true. 64GB of memory just doesn't cut it for my line of work.
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You know what's worst? When people convince themselves that there is no over way, that they won't be able to make it.

That's exactly the same as moving to a town and forgetting that you can grow food with your hands and not only with machines.


At some point technology is starting to create impotence.
 
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