This really makes me wonder about Apple's future. I NEED a powerful workstation. If Apple is no longer interested in providing users with a powerful workstation solution, they have no choice but to move on to a Windows 8 system. Is that what they really want to do?
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Apple 'Questioning' the Future of its Mac Pro Line?
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It's not going to bring in a ton of money, but it's a 40% margin that requires no additional work on OS X and little on hardware design. The most important thing about the Mac Pro is the respect it brings. How many M5s does BMW sell? Not many, but the alpha consumer that everyone follows like celebrities do. So because of the M5, BMW sells a bunch of 3 and 5 series vehicles to people that want to be like celebs, which is where they make their money. When you remove the eliteness of the Mac Pro line, you get consumers to ask themselves if the Apple tax on their iGimmick is worth it since they're just like everybody else.
KnightWRX said:
Question is, is that particular segment any smaller than it was before the advent of the iDevices? As in, is Apple now making less money off the Mac Pros now that we have iPads, or is the iPad now so popular, they just don't feel like dealing with it anymore?
Generally, yeah. But not for the 3D/movie market. They're the one segment that's always be on the cutting edge of computer tech, to the point where they'll actually future proof their products to take advantage of computer tech that isn't even currently feasible.
Like I use Modo for most of my 3D modelling. I can get by on my little quad core 920 myself, because I'm currently more in the learned intermediate, hobbyist stage of things. But the program itself can take advantage of 32 cores on one machine. I don't think there's a single computer out there at the moment that can handle more than 20. But when it does become standard (for the high end segment anyway), then Modo will probably support up to 64. It's an ever growing, ever changing field, that relies on the high end like no other.
Well, at least in the entertainment/art field. If you're talking about internet backbones and maybe modelling weather 3 weeks in advance, even it's on the low end of things.
But for everything else, hell, if you're planning on using your computer for, say, checking email, and writing spreadsheets, then an iMac you pick up tomorrow will probably still work just as well for you 5 years from now. Maybe more. On that front, computer tech has way, way, WAY outpaced the software field.
Yes, Apple could offer more options. Modern production technology allows for a wider range of products now that would have been too expensive only a few years ago. You can see that at the enormous range of models the car companies now have.
I could see three case models, mini, a new medium, and the pro.
It's time for Apple to offer more options for its products.
Dell is a good example.
And as we are at it: better warranties. Apple Care is overpriced and as close to a rip-off as you can get. At these prices, a 3 year warranty should be standard (As Dell offers it).
Now, Apple having achieved this market power, will lose its exclusivity.
It has started with the lower priced iPhones, the competitive pricing of the MBA line, and will spread out to workstations.
I don't think that workstations are outdated. On the contrary: with all the powerful software coming out where one person can create what formerly was a team's work, workstations are a necessity of one-man creative shops (or creative shops with few employees).
So, I think Tim Cook will not let the pro segment go.
Because then Apple would just be another consumer electronics company. It would devaluate everything else Apple offers.
They killed an iPod when it was a hot seller, cant remember which one. The White Macbook was their best seller, they axed that.
They gained some share, which I think is some of the ipod/ipad halo effect and now people that used windows for a long time have this fresh new OS, but I think they will tire eventually and not want to pay those high prices. I said this in another thread, lets say Apple had the SAME exact line as Dell. The products had the Apple lustre to them and were designed by Apple. Where do you think their share would be???
I mean god forbid the margins would not be as high, be hard to sleep worrying about people with $$$ maybe not making enough on their stocks. You say its impossible for them to double production?? They spoon feed people BS to retort and the RDF continues. No other company has these imaginary problems.
PS: nice avatar
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If he's talking about needing 64GB of ram, then there's probably a good reason for it. Hell if I know what, though.
I do know that the difference between good enough, and what you really need in that particular market is the difference between a render taking 5 hours, or 15. That's not just someone convincing themselves they need it.
When you talk about hours of rendering you shouldn't be using one machine to do it, in that case what machines (multiple) you are using is not that important as long as it is economically viable.
That's all it's offered with? Regardless of what upgrade options Apple puts on their site the maximum is 32GB and you were wrong.
I never said there was a pure replacement for a Mac Pro. I was simply refuting your two points that were made with alternative methods of getting the same result. Your false accusation was that the iMac can only use up to 16GB of RAM.
Wow. Very unfortunate - Apple should speak up and quash this rumor if untrue, who wants to buy into a soon to be discontinued product line that may take much of an ecosystem down with it?
If I were hearing this and had pending software or other investments in the Mac for professional uses requiring Pro level hardware, I would be looking at Windows...
If I were hearing this and had pending software or other investments in the Mac for professional uses requiring Pro level hardware, I would be looking at Windows...
I don't think they could just axe the workstations, even if it's a "niche" market compared to their toy devices.
Linux or other UNIX Systems have the stability, just nowhere near the software or support. Or friendliness, for that matter. That would mean a huge amount of the Pro market going to...Windows.
I think Apple would have to be crazy, to just let that happen.
Linux or other UNIX Systems have the stability, just nowhere near the software or support. Or friendliness, for that matter. That would mean a huge amount of the Pro market going to...Windows.
I think Apple would have to be crazy, to just let that happen.
I think that it would be a mistake to do away with the Mac Pro. The Mini is (in my opinion) not a replacement for the MP. In my opinion the Mini is an asinine abomination. Why does a desktop computer need to be so small that it can only use laptop components? They are not as powerful or as fast as desktop components and they are more expensive! I don't think that the Mini would need to be much larger than it is now in order to be able to use desktop components. It would still be quite small and it would be cheaper and better. And this is all because Apple (Steve Jobs) placed form over function. Steve was right about a lot of things, but he was also wrong about a lot of things. Same with the current iMac. Why does it need to be so thin and use laptop components? And people wonder why they have an overheating problem.
One other thing I disagreed with Steve about is that we are in the post PC era. If Apple is planning to EOL the Mac Pro, that was Steve's decision. I'm sure that Steve was a very charismatic guy and a great salesman, no doubt about that, but while the iPods, iPhones, iPads, etc. are doing great... the computer division needs some attention. I hope the new CEO doesn't let the Mac Pro EOL. And I do have one more very serious question for all of you. When Steve Jobs had a bowel movement, was it referred to as an iBM?
One other thing I disagreed with Steve about is that we are in the post PC era. If Apple is planning to EOL the Mac Pro, that was Steve's decision. I'm sure that Steve was a very charismatic guy and a great salesman, no doubt about that, but while the iPods, iPhones, iPads, etc. are doing great... the computer division needs some attention. I hope the new CEO doesn't let the Mac Pro EOL. And I do have one more very serious question for all of you. When Steve Jobs had a bowel movement, was it referred to as an iBM?
I didn't know about the solutions from Aja etc. At least that's good to know. My MP only runs 1/8 resolution of my RED EPIC footage without stutter.
Also one of the reasons I wanted to get a new one, but I might be out of luck.
As others have stated, going down the thunderbolt route will leave you with a very messy desktop. It's very nice to have at least 7 TB internally, not cluttering my desk.
Pro/Education
Does any one else feel as though the Pro market has a trickle down effect on what is used in education?
I think it's important to maintain that continuity throughout their product line.
Getting rid of the xserve was understandable, but Mac Pro I feel would be a bit too far.
Does any one else feel as though the Pro market has a trickle down effect on what is used in education?
I think it's important to maintain that continuity throughout their product line.
Getting rid of the xserve was understandable, but Mac Pro I feel would be a bit too far.
Oh, PLEASE let this mean you can connect two macs or something to each other to double their processing power or something!!!
That would be SOOOOO awesome!!!!
Well the rumor didn't look very substantial.
They always pop up when the Mac Pro is seriously outdated, and therefore overpriced.
Which is once a year.
Let's hope Tim Cook gets a grip on the high end and pro market.
They always pop up when the Mac Pro is seriously outdated, and therefore overpriced.
Which is once a year.
Let's hope Tim Cook gets a grip on the high end and pro market.
Just keep digging that hole for yourself. You are showing more and more how little you understand that industry.
Often time they do have multiple computers. One work horse (Mac Pro) and a few other computers around to use. When the work horse is tied up with a rendering job they often times work on one of the other computers on another project. Even if they are not rendering having all that extra horse power is great when dealing with huge files that can bring a lot of high end computers to their knees in just working with it much less doing the rendering jobs. These are massive files and extra ram really helps out.
You also forget a great time for rendering to be done is while you sleep at night or you are going away for a little while. Something that could do it in say 10 hours compared to something that could take 24+ for the same job. Those 10 hours could be done over night and then next day be ready to go on something else compare to the computer being down for over a day and effecting the next work day heavily as well before you can even review the files.
Also means your dead lines are not as harsh and painful because you have less down time rendering.
I know some engineering software that models one some very high end computers is has been measured in days. A girl I used to date at their office they between 2 employees 6-7 high end computers all tied up doing different models and they still were spending some time doing nothing because they were out of free computers so they took a long lunch while waiting for one of them to finish so they could check the data and start yet another model. This is not counting the ones that crashed and burned.
I heavily use my Mac Pro, but I also understand that if the world is moving to portables, high-end desktops may not be cost effective for Apple to pursue.
We can whine all we want, but fewer and fewer people are buying desktops. "Apple is giving up on the Mac Pro" -- should it read, "Sufficient numbers of buyers have given up on the Mac Pro" ?
I don't see them axing the line just yet - maybe one more update before concentrating on the other 97% of the computer users.
We can whine all we want, but fewer and fewer people are buying desktops. "Apple is giving up on the Mac Pro" -- should it read, "Sufficient numbers of buyers have given up on the Mac Pro" ?
I don't see them axing the line just yet - maybe one more update before concentrating on the other 97% of the computer users.
Here is my 2 cents:
I've been using desktop towers as my digital hub since the day I retired my 486 laptop. Haha, that was 1998! I've had a few laptops since those days, but never has the thought crossed my mind to use one as my primary machine. I am not a "Creative Professional" in the sense that I don't make a living off of producing videos or music, however I can think of so many other reasons to buy a tower!
Anyone that thinks the Mac Pro was exclusively for "Creative Professionals", or believes that they are simply because they purchased a Mac Pro is clearly a victim of marketing. Too bad.
Really though - want to know my favorite thing about towers? The cooling system! If I want to, I can beat the crap out of a tower and not have to deal with anything other than a slight increase in ambient noise.
iMacs, Mac Minis, and MacBooks all use those damn squirrel cage fans. In comparison: They are noisy, clog up quickly, and do not cool nearly as efficiently. Sure, they make nice pretty thin machines, but being able to do whatever I feel like doing at my desk in comfort is a big deal.
It's also nice being able to change out a hard drive (or optical drive, or a number of other components) inside your machine without having to take the glass cover, the screen, the logic board, and half the other crap inside out!
It's also great to be able to add additional monitors, USB ports, firewire ports, gigabit ethernet ports, and the like without having to add stupid dongles. I despise dongles. Expansion cards sit inside the machine and if you screw them in right - they won't fall off when you move the machine! XD
Did I mention I can change the hard drive without voiding the warranty?
Part of the reason the Mac Pro has become so stagnant is Apple. Since the end of the PowerMac G5 line, people have been begging for a ~$1500 tower with a cheaper desktop class processor and board.
You know what? I don't even care anymore. The only way I'm getting a Mac Pro is if I win the lottery or I manage to swing a REALLY good deal on one (used or something?) Otherwise, with any hope I'll be a happy owner of a 27" iMac next year
I've been using desktop towers as my digital hub since the day I retired my 486 laptop. Haha, that was 1998! I've had a few laptops since those days, but never has the thought crossed my mind to use one as my primary machine. I am not a "Creative Professional" in the sense that I don't make a living off of producing videos or music, however I can think of so many other reasons to buy a tower!
Anyone that thinks the Mac Pro was exclusively for "Creative Professionals", or believes that they are simply because they purchased a Mac Pro is clearly a victim of marketing. Too bad.
Really though - want to know my favorite thing about towers? The cooling system! If I want to, I can beat the crap out of a tower and not have to deal with anything other than a slight increase in ambient noise.
iMacs, Mac Minis, and MacBooks all use those damn squirrel cage fans. In comparison: They are noisy, clog up quickly, and do not cool nearly as efficiently. Sure, they make nice pretty thin machines, but being able to do whatever I feel like doing at my desk in comfort is a big deal.
It's also nice being able to change out a hard drive (or optical drive, or a number of other components) inside your machine without having to take the glass cover, the screen, the logic board, and half the other crap inside out!
It's also great to be able to add additional monitors, USB ports, firewire ports, gigabit ethernet ports, and the like without having to add stupid dongles. I despise dongles. Expansion cards sit inside the machine and if you screw them in right - they won't fall off when you move the machine! XD
Did I mention I can change the hard drive without voiding the warranty?
Part of the reason the Mac Pro has become so stagnant is Apple. Since the end of the PowerMac G5 line, people have been begging for a ~$1500 tower with a cheaper desktop class processor and board.
You know what? I don't even care anymore. The only way I'm getting a Mac Pro is if I win the lottery or I manage to swing a REALLY good deal on one (used or something?) Otherwise, with any hope I'll be a happy owner of a 27" iMac next year
Apple wants their products to be effortless. Being a creative professional takes a lot of effort. Apple is obviously uncomfortable making products for people who work very hard at what they do. If it can't be done by speaking to Siri, it isn't worth doing anymore.