Apple 'Questioning' the Future of its Mac Pro Line?

[JoeG4]

I do understand people get emotional about this (my self included) because it means that if I have to move to windows for my workhorse, I will have to move my laptop use there as well as it would be too much hassle syncing and keeping to different OSs going.

I have a Windows laptop. The only pain is having to have both versions of the same program (like, MS Word.. or Adobe Photoshop!) Half the time you're not "supposed" to use the same program license on 2 different computers anyway.

The file sharing bit is actually pretty easy: You use dropbox or iCloud or old fashioned SMB file sharing. Drag and drop, and you're pretty much done.

Security in W7 is pretty decent too, not perfect but if you're using Chrome/Safari/Firefox you're about as well off as you are on a Mac (although, it's good to have a virus scanner for those thumb drives/emails! At any rate, Mac users SHOULD do this too. We're just lazy bums!)

Back on topic though: It would be a foolish long-term business decision to abandon your loyal business customers. If anyone knows this, it's Microsoft. Google has been trying to tap into that market for a while now, because alongside advertising it's pretty lucrative.

The consumer gadget market is very volatile; naturally, high profit margins come with higher risks. Part of the reason Apple was so successful probably has to do with their (seemingly short) attention span matching that of the market. Just as the crowd gets tired of seeing iPhones, Apple comes out with an entirely different one. Hrmm... they used to be that way about their computer hardware, too.

You cannot have all of your eggs in one basket - if all else they should be (carefully) expanding their Mac lineup in a smart way to provide more income. At the end of the day, as long as a product is generating a net gain for the company (after R&D, production, and all of that).. why the hell would they kill off a successful product?

At the end of the day, I think a small part of that probably lied in control freaks. Perhaps someone in upper management gets their panties in a knot over the idea of someone using a Mac with a matte Dell LCD... or an Eizo LCD.. or anything out of Apple's control!

Either way, the Mac Pro is a bit of a compromise machine. It is now being used for those that just want/need a tower, those that need workstation hardware, and those that need a server running OS X. Heh ,3 birds! 1 stone! It's almost as bad as eliminating all of the portables and only having the 11" and 13" MacBook Airs.

 

[kustardking]

For people like myself that are professional 3D artists, the software not only has kept up but is often so cutting edge that the hardware does not. Programs such as C4D, Maya, Vue, etc. can take FULL advantage of everything you throw at it and use as much power as you have available. See my other post about how I use the Mac Pro, not just one, but several as part of a "render farm" as "nodes". I can use as much power as currently available to buy and then some and it never stops for me.

The ends for which you use computing power will always demand more than can be provided, and so in terms of productivity your point is unassailable. However, 3D is a slap-stick, soulless medium that should not exist, so I wouldn't be sorry if it all got washed away.

 

[seveej]

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Would hate to see them discontinue the Mac Pro.

Seriously hope Cringely's right about the future of the big Mac:
http://www.cringely.com/2011/08/is-the-mac-pro-dead/

 

[JoeG4]

The Mac Mini uses a mobile i7 quad, and the Mac Pro can be had with dual 6(?) core processors. Has Cringley ever heard of CPU bandwidth? LOL.

CPU bandwidth is a curious thing. It and RAM capacity are like.. well.. in 10 years a Mac Pro will still be a very usable machine! Nobody would want to use a 10 year old machine regardless (you get sick of seeing the same piece of hardware after 7 or 8 years.. I'm still using those acrylic cinema displays 10 years later! Love them but I could definitely use a change in scenery!)

 

[empezar]

This is really bad. I was planning on perhaps upgrading my Mac Pro next year.

I've been down the iMac road, and it just doesn't compare.

 

[lukarak]

I hope this isn't true. Not because i would buy it, but because i believe it's the wrong way to go.

The reason the laptop segment has taken over is that they made by far the best laptops in the business. Their whole computer business has grown, laptops just grew more than desktops. It's not like the Mac Pro has been declining in sales (when they update it, of course).

I just want them to put a regular i7 inside and price it at around 1.7-1.9k

 

[Renzatic]

However, 3D is a slap-stick, soulless medium that should not exist, so I wouldn't be sorry if it all got washed away.

Wow. All this time, I figured you New York types were big patrons of the arts.

 

[kustardking]

Wow. All this time, I figured you New York types were big patrons of the arts.

We are. Try a gallery some time. Try enjoying something hand-made, as in a drawing WITHOUT a stylus. Most people confuse illustration with art, and 3D is exclusively illustration.

 

[iBlue]

I think it's a very depressing thought but sadder still it's not entirely surprising. Apple seems to be catering less to professionals and more towards the mass iConsumer.

I hope it's not true. I'd rather they add another consumer line rather than remove the mac pros.

 

[Bernard SG]

It's hard to take you and your views seriously as a PROFESSIONAL when you can't even spell "bought".

Maybe that's why 64GB of RAM is required to check the grammar ?
I kid, I kid...

On the topic, I may understand it wrong but the AI article seems to hint that there might be one more iteration of the Mac Pro but the big question mark is about what happens beyond that.

Anyway, I would take that rumor with a pinch of a salt, or even two. There's no doubt that Apple will be transitioning to something different than the current Mac Pro for the very high-end, but I don't see them abandoning that type of offer completely. Hell, I would bet that Apple's own engineers and developers themselves have needs that are unlikely to be met by a beefed-up iMac.

And let's not forget that there's no way to develop apps for iOS devices without a Mac. I'm sure Apple wants more stuff like Infinity Blade to showcase on the AppStore, and that, IMO, needs Pro equipment.

 

[Renzatic]

We are. Try a gallery some time. Try enjoying something hand-made, as in a drawing WITHOUT a stylus. Most people confuse illustration with art, and 3D is exclusively illustration.

How so? By my definition, any creative process can ultimately lead to, and can be expressively defined as, art.

Illustration is art, as much as painting and architecture.

 

[kustardking]

How so? By my definition, any creative process can ultimately lead to, and can be expressively defined as, art.

Illustration is art, as much as painting and architecture.

Illustration is an art, but it is not art. Architecture is by definition not art, because it is built with utility. If you want to argue architecture as art, do some reading on Frank Lloyd Wright, he comes pretty close. Painting may be art, but most painters are not artists (and hence not making art). Also, your comparisons are not balanced. For example, an illustration might be a painting, but a painting might not be an illustration.

By the by, "by my definition" is exactly the problem. Art is not a personal definition, it is an actual thing that is agree upon, not construed by a lone mind.

 

[antonis]

I don't think they can just kill completely these machines without any alternative. Apple has made efforts to bring heavy workstation applications to the Mac (e.g. autocad) while already having heavy workstation products ported to Mac for some years now (e.g. maya). The iMac or the Mac Mini cannot take the place of a dedicated workstation for a professional who uses the above products.

My point is, the only scenario to kill the Mac Pro could be true if they are preparing something else to take its place.

 

[Graham King]

However, 3D is a slap-stick, soulless medium that should not exist, so I wouldn't be sorry if it all got washed away.

I think you're confusing 3D graphics with 3D film - two very different things. 3D graphics has been the foundation of all the best video games, action & sci-fi movies (just a couple examples) for a very long time. These things are enjoyed on a flat 2D screen without glasses but were made possible by 3D graphics.

The recent reemergence of 3D films, on the other hand, is a fad which may or may not last.

 

[kustardking]

I think you're confusing 3D graphics with 3D film - two very different things. 3D graphics has been the foundation of all the best video games, action & sci-fi movies (just a couple examples) for a very long time. These things are enjoyed on a flat 2D screen without glasses but were made possible by 3D graphics.

The recent reemergence of 3D films, on the other hand, is a fad which may or may not last.

I don't disagree with the distinction, and I do like the 1st person shooter now and again. So, yes, I was targeting films. However, as I expanded in a later post, I don't count 3D as anything special in terms of true expressiveness, so I don't really care what happens to it.

 

[dontmatter]

Interesting. I see multiple viewpoints to take on this one:

1.Straight Business - small volume+premium parts= low margins.

2. Reputation - The Apple brand is the most valuable thing that Apple has. If it isn't clear that Apple things are special and a cut above, it will hurt everything that Apple sells. Also, the creative professional market, while not all that profitable, lends Apple credibility. So there is a risk in getting rid of the Mac Pro, though it is debatable if people outside of these forums even know the mac pro exists. Can't remember the last time I saw one.

3. A Step Ahead - Steve has always loved axing things that were on their way out, before anybody else saw that they were on their way out. See: CD drive, Floppy drive, removable batteries, etc. I think it is key to their success. If Apple is seeing the future and deciding to jump there before anybody else understands, it is a great sign that they can do it without Steve. It is a signature Apple move, difficult because it depends on being right when everybody thinks you're wrong.

The bottom line is, will a large number of people continue to use Mac Pros? There is always some such market, but it's been a while now that processing power has grown without a concomitant growth in demand for processing power. Most creative professionals I know use MacBook Pros, often with external monitors, etc. If they don't find a desktop compelling, it might be time for the Pro to go.

 

[seek3r]

We are. Try a gallery some time. Try enjoying something hand-made, as in a drawing WITHOUT a stylus. Most people confuse illustration with art, and 3D is exclusively illustration.

You sound like a coworker I once had that insisted that any music with lyrics wasn't truly music

 

[Renzatic]

I don't disagree with the distinction, and I do like the 1st person shooter now and again. So, yes, I was targeting films. However, as I expanded in a later post, I don't count 3D as anything special in terms of true expressiveness, so I don't really care what happens to it.

This is off topic as hell, but damn it's fun.

From the sound of it, I think your problem stems from thinking of 3D art as exclusively videogame related.

Just look up any classical sculpting examples done in Zbrush. Some of it is pretty corny, admittedly. But you have other bits and pieces, such as...

Parnassus done in 3D. That's fairly impressive. Just about any classical sculpting example will prove your "limits of true expression" wrong.

Course I could say that about any medium. If you can use it to express a thought, then it can ultimately be used to produce an example of what you'd probably call High Art (notice the capitals).

EXPAND YO HORIZONS!

 

[Rychiar]

macpro is already dead. who can afford the damn thing. it makes no sense compared to a top of the line imac these days. as a graphic designer i switched over years ago

 

[Michael Scrip]

My entire professional career and skill set is based on the Pro line of hardware and software from Apple. If they kill the Mac Pro, turn FCP into iMovie, and OSX into iOS, that would just suck. I know movie theaters make all their money on popcorn, but if they don't show movies, nobody's going to come buy the snacks. I think Apple would cut out a lot of their community if they just become a consumer electronics "gadget" company. They have a computer hardware and software empire, with a respectable slice of the professional creative market, and some of the smartest products ever made. They would really be shooting themselves in the foot to go all iMac on us Pros.

Movies would still get made... they will just be made on Windows hardware.

Sure it would take some adjustment.... but those industries would find a way.

One a side note... it sounds like you base your entire career and skill-set on a single company... Apple.

Isn't that dangerous?

 

[juanm]

Apple stopped licensing Mac OS out to prevent these vendors from taking all the high profit high-end sales. If high-end sales are no longer interesting or profitable for Apple, maybe it's time for them to reconsider licensing Mac OS X to select high-end system vendors. Maybe IBM for blades or racks? What other potential licensee makes systems that wouldn't degrade the Mac OS experience?

The HP Z-series...

macpro is already dead. who can afford the damn thing. it makes no sense compared to a top of the line imac these days. as a graphic designer i switched over years ago

I recently got into 3D. 3D (and basically everything where there's rendering involved) is all about computing speed. 5 minutes projects involving thousands of hours of render are very common. Some calculations (particles, fluid simulations) can't even be distributed, so it's down to one machine.
Ideally, I'd be able to work on a Mac and send the render over a linux-based render farm. I already bought a high-end PC last year because the Mac Pro was too expensive.
With the latest i7 processors, the main reason for the Mac Pro price (Xeon processors) is becoming moot.
I'd love to have a Mac Pro, same as now, with just one i7-2600K and lower price...

 

[NickFalk]

We are. Try a gallery some time. Try enjoying something hand-made, as in a drawing WITHOUT a stylus. Most people confuse illustration with art, and 3D is exclusively illustration.

Wow!
I had no idea it was even possible to be this conservative and claim to care about art. It's like claiming that novels written with word processors are inferior to those written using a fountain pen. It's not the tools* that defines art.

*And yes, that's meant as a double-entendre

 

[mr_bam]

No update = no sales

The only reason the sales are down it that nobody will buy one when it hasn't been updated for SO LONG! People know SATA III is missing and Thunderbolt is missing from an otherwise great workhorse computer.

You're not going to invest £2000-£4000 on a Mac Pro for it to have old connections on it.

I love my Mac Pro. I've upgraded it no end.

But I won't buy anything of that value new unless it has SATA III on it so I can run my SSD at full speed. And Thunderbolt on it now for future-proofing.

I would love Apple to make a "mini" tower. Something with a quad i7 in it instead of a Xeon. Something you can change out 2 Hard Drives and a Graphics card + one other expansion slot + Thunderbolt + Gigabit ethernet. That would be "enough" for most people these days. Something not too expensive that I could justify replacing every 12-24 months.

I don't think they should dump the workstation Mac Pro altogether. There are genuine uses for them, Music, Video, 3D, Science, etc. Keep the case as it is. Upgrade the components. It'll still sell. But make an in-between mini tower too. That'll sell even more!

 

[Michael Scrip]

They killed an iPod when it was a hot seller, cant remember which one. The White Macbook was their best seller, they axed that.

But then the $999 11" MacBook Air became the "cheapest" Mac laptop.. and didn't it quickly become a best seller?

You're right... Apple stopped selling the $999 plastic white Macbook... but it was replaced by something much hotter.

Apple still has a $999 price point... and the Air is a much better computer than the white MacBook in most respects.

 

[charleswhalley]

Death of the Mac Pro

You cannot be serious - the iMac's are good but they are way slower than the mac pro and no way to upgrade them. so is 25% of mac sales not good enough.

This would be the death of the mac as we know it.