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One of the main tenets of "supply chain management" is to avoid "stocks".

The goal is "just in time delivery", so that components go directly from the loading dock to the assembly line.

The idea that any manufacturer has warehouses of components to supply the lines for weeks or months is very old-fashioned.

While that is true for the most part I believe I was reading why the hard drives shortage has not hit the big OEM is they normally have around 6 weeks of hard drive stock on hand. So somewhere in the pipeline they have around 6 weeks worth of hard drives.
 
My point is that the lack of recent updates of the Mac Pro is in line with how it's usually updated. When Intel adds new CPUs. Adding 3rd party components to the base configuration does not usually warrant an update from Apple. Thus it's no indication of an abandonment of the model.

The CPU is a 3rd party component.
 
a simple cable?

Did Apple make a simple cable for connecting a MacBook Air 11" to an OPTOMA Videoprojector Pico PK301. So a Thunderbolt connection to the mini(!)-HDMI entry in the PK301? So not via adapters etc. just one simple cable connecting both?

Best regards, Marcel
 
Yes, but look at the history of how the model is updated. It's in line with intel architectural changes.

No one is arguing that.

But some are arguing that it isn't uncommon for systems from other vendors to be updated with new CPUs, I/O, memory and other features even without a "tick" or "tock" from Intel.

Apple seems to be lagging other manufacturers, who will update graphics options, disk options, add USB 3.0 and BD options, update networking components and the like without waiting for a new Intel chip.

And, as one poster mentioned, why no 6-core option for the single socket system?
 
So why is the updates discussed in this thread then? They have nothing to do with the topic.

Yes, we're discussing that Apple could have done an update had they cared to do one, and that this lack of updates for 18 months could lend credibility to the rumor being discussed.

We're all speculating, this is what this thread is about.
 
and that this lack of updates for 18 months could lend credibility to the rumor being discussed.

Why would it, given that you agreed that this is how Apple always have updated the model. People tend to hang on the these longer than say a macbook air or iPod. It makes strategic sense make updates that are significant, to the previous model.
 
This is proof that Mac Pros are in demand and will not be discontinued, whether or not your opinion of "outdated" is correct:
Go to first page, look at the OP rating.
Yeeeeaaahhh....lowest in MR history
 
History says something else

Why would it, given that you agreed that this is how Apple always have updated the model. People tend to hang on the these longer than say a macbook air or iPod. It makes strategic sense make updates that are significant, to the previous model.

Look at this table from MacRumours (attachment 1) - it certainly looks like the rate of updates is slowing down a *lot* from how often Apple previously updated the Mac Pro.

And the top speed for 6-core Xeons from Apple is 2.93 GHz.

Intel's been selling 3.06 GHz and 3.46 GHz hex-core Xeons since January - why hasn't Apple updated the Mac Pro with such a simple chip swap?
 

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Look at this table from MacRumours (attachment 1) - it certainly looks like the rate of updates is slowing down a *lot* from how often Apple previously updated the Mac Pro.

And the top speed for 6-core Xeons from Apple is 2.93 GHz.

Intel's been selling 3.06 GHz and 3.46 GHz hex-core Xeons since January - why hasn't Apple updated the Mac Pro with such a simple chip swap?

It's still in line with the tic-toc changes from intel, westmere, clovertown, and nahelem and so on. Not sure about the updates in 2006, but.. I guess they could update the chips to faster clocked versions but, they are usually the "top of the line" add-on, not the base configuration anyway. And it's my understanding that the intel release is indeed delayed, so should they rush out an update in-between, or wait. It's been 16 month since the last update and Apple got the new CPU's ahead of time.
 
It's still in line with the tic-toc changes from intel, westmere, clovertown, and nahelem and so on.

Yes, but the January updates were normal process improvements, not tick/tock architectural changes. And that brings to mind that the July 2010 "update" to the Mac Pro was just a change to the CPU options - the rest of the system really hasn't been updated for 978 days. (Putting a different CPU in the same socket, supporting a larger disk, or adding a newer graphics card or other PCIe option, shouldn't be viewed as a "revision".)


Seriously, dude - you've set up your browser to display the world in Comic Sans?

Only a hardcore Apple fan would make a comment like that - as if font choice had any significance.

Choice is not a bad thing, in spite of what the late turtlenecked overlord said.

(I like Comic Sans MS because numerals are a different height than letters - when you're programming, P0 and PO are clearly different. Much less confusion about "l" vs "1", "O" vs "0" and similiar characters.)
 
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Yes, but the January updates were normal process improvements, not tick/tock architectural changes.

The only update in January was in 2008 which brought Harpertown CPU's and faster memory and system bus and the 8 core configuration.

http://www.macworld.com/article/131949/2008/02/macproeight28.html

And that brings to mind that the July 2010 "update" to the Mac Pro was just a change to the CPU options - the rest of the system really hasn't been updated for 978 days.

Wrong, the last update was to Westmere (32nm from 45nm) which brought the 6 and 12 core configurations.
 
I'm referring to the Intel updates in Jan 2011 (the ones that Apple chose not to offer to its professional users).

http://ark.intel.com/products/family/28144/Intel-Xeon-Processor-5000-Sequence/server

Ok I see, but then we are in agreement, that is still Westmere CPUs. Looking at the updates of the Mac Pro, the CPUs have been:

> Conroe
> Woodcrest
> Harpertown
> Gainestown (Nehalem)
> Westmere

Which all are either tick or tock enhancements to the previous model.
 
Only a hardcore Apple fan would make a comment like that - as if font choice had any significance.

Choice is not a bad thing, in spite of what the late turtlenecked overlord said.

(I like Comic Sans MS because numerals are a different height than letters - when you're programming, P0 and PO are clearly different. Much less confusion about "l" vs "1", "O" vs "0" and similiar characters.)

Just code in Chinese Han, then the numerals will really be noticeable.
 
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Hence my comment about making the display port connection *optional* in the TBolt spec.
Intel's been rather cagey on this, as they've formally neither stated it is or isn't, but the initial information indicates that they wanted DP signals to be included. Which is why they've aimed it at laptops with either Integrated Graphics Processor's (IGP) or an embedded GPU, as it's easier to do it this way.

The likely reasoning behind this, is it will help eliminate confusion and foster adoption.

Which lends me to believe that data only implementations will follow at a later date (Intel can withhold parts/refuse to sell to those that won't release a DP enabled TB port via for a period of time via contract language for example).

Asus has eleven different Z68 boards, and 26 other models just for socket 1155.
Industry data.

For example, ASUS leads board makers with a 21.6M units for 2010 (source). Now if you divide 21.6M by 37 models, assuming the split is even, that comes to a tad over 580K units per model offered.

Now compare that with 2009 workstation data, that would put Apple's MP sales at ~76K (I showed this in another thread if you recall.

Quite a difference.

If you notice, most of their boards are consumer units, not workstations, and what workstation products they do offer, tend to be designed for dual use (i.e. gamers + workstation users).

Any proof, and why would it be any different for Apple making a minor revision to the Mac Pro?
A big part of it, has to do with the sales volume. Particularly how R&D is divided.

Since companies like ASUS and MSI sell a lot more units (see above), the R&D per board is lower, particularly when you realize that they don't spend nearly as much as a full system vendor on software validation (no integrated solutions, they don't write the OS, drivers, or other software that accesses particular chips on the board, such as Audio software <controls the output location for example>, as this is done by the respective semiconductor manufacturers).

What they would need to write on their own, would be things like the Over Clocking software utilities they offer (could also be contracted, but those contract costs are added to R&D).

The other thing to consider, has to do with sales periods (time between revisions), and how that effects system inventory. For example, if there's only 3 months between now and a new CPU/chipset model, and they released a TB unit now, they're likely to be stuck with a lot of unsold systems due to users waiting for the new CPU versions to become available (whether they buy the new model, or the TB only version at a discount). Which means Apple would be left "holding the bag" in terms of profit reductions, or even a net loss.

So the timing is critical.

Fact? No - just a guess. The "fact" is that most of your points would also justify a conclusion that a revised Mac Pro board wouldn't be that expensive.
It's not a guess. See above. ;)

Even if you're just adding a single component to a board, particularly when that board is the only one offered, it requires a lot more work than you've realized (additional man-hours spent in design, hardware verification, software validation on the system end, as well as what that entails on product inventory control). Which is why such a move by a company like Apple is a bad move.

Hope this clears things up. :)
 
you are forgetting that many of the suppliers for the consumer grade stuff also are the makers of the high end stuff as well. They will not have a code base nor the programmmers on had for the filter down.

If there money to be made on the Mac (there is), they will release a product for mac. Apple has reached critical mass in the US consumer market and the software companies are aware of this.

Why would they not have the code base and the programmer on hand? You've just argued it's the same company.
 
If there money to be made on the Mac (there is), they will release a product for mac. Apple has reached critical mass in the US consumer market and the software companies are aware of this.

Why would they not have the code base and the programmer on hand? You've just argued it's the same company.

Depends. You have to remember the developing cost of the consumer grade stuff is going to be a lot higher with out the pro level stuff to trickle down. The code base is gone (means more writing from scratch) and then you will not have the devs who work on OSX any more.
It means OSX becomes much lower priority due to increased cost and longer dev time.
Mix that with the Mac App Store sand boxing requirements that is going to really push away the high end stuff.
 
I need a new Mac Pro!

The 12-core isn´t fast enough!

If Apple kills the Mac Pro line and focuses only on consumer devices, laptops etc... it will be their biggest mistake and they will go down!
 
Depends. You have to remember the developing cost of the consumer grade stuff is going to be a lot higher with out the pro level stuff to trickle down.

There still will be pro level stuff. It's just that the extremely resource intensive use of the pro stuff will have moved away from the platform.

The code base is gone (means more writing from scratch)

No it isn't. Why would it be gone? I'm assuming that the companies will keep developing their stuff for other platforms. That means the code base is still there. In fact, I don't see any reason they would stop developing for mac. What products are you thinking of?

...and then you will not have the devs who work on OSX any more.
It means OSX becomes much lower priority due to increased cost and longer dev time.

No. OS X will become a lower priority if the products make less money. You're speculating wildly.

Mix that with the Mac App Store sand boxing requirements that is going to really push away the high end stuff.

Oh, if only professionals knew how to install stuff not in the app store ;)
 
^ Winner


This line, or something similar will be available for the foreseeable future. Besides that, how about a graph of how much those Mac Pros rake in. Sure they may sell less of them, but it's a higher ticket item and the more you customize the higher that price goes.

Max iMac price, fully configured- ~ $3700
Max MP price, fully configured- ~ $12,800 (would be more of RAID card used SSDs)

Hmm.... :rolleyes:

The issue is not selling price but margin. As volume goes down the per unit costs go up - fixed because there is a smaller number to cover those; variable as component orders decrease you won't get as large discount on them. Ultimately it comes down to what fraction of sales would be lost vs those converted to other products (such as iMacs or a beefed up Mini) and the impact on margins.

Declining sales indicates many users are already finding other options - Mac or otherwise - so the questions becomes "will a new model warrant the investment in resources to develop and manufacture it or can those resources be better used on a different product?"

I don't know the answer, but Apple's move away from being a computer company to an "experience" company doesn't portend well for the Mac Pro. The high end progressional market doesn't really fit into the whole Mac - iPhone - iTunes - Content model the is defining the Apple experience.

Apple could decide they need a showcase model - but their general lack of promoting them make she wonder if they really care about them. I think they are more than happy to build and sell iMacs and MBPs and work to expand the eco system round them. Only time will tell.
 
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