Apple 'Questioning' the Future of its Mac Pro Line?

[MagnusVonMagnum]

A mid range tower has no place.

No, YOU have no place. I'm so tired of this canned corporate BS parroting. You seem to think just because you don't think for yourself and let Apple dictate everything you do and think in life that EVERYONE must do the same thing. Well, I've got news for you pal. A LOT of us want a mid-range tower Mac and we don't want no stinking sissy iMac or overpriced Mac Pro workstation. But people like you can't get that through your head. You can't even COMPREHEND it.

It would overlap with the function of the Mac Mini and iMac and base Mac Pro. Also, it would be a very boring product, Apple does not make "boring" products.

You apparently don't know WTF overlap is. A mid-range expandable tower has NO overlap with a freaking unexpandable Mac Mini and the Mac Pro is a professional WORKSTATION that costs a freaking fortune for the base model. That is not overlap. That is an entirely different market. The only reason ANY consumers buy one is because there isn't ANY other option with expansion and that's just fracking ridiculous in 2012.

Now that Mr. Jobs is getting his just deserve in the after-life, Tim Cook would be wise to step up and start putting out real computer products and professional product lines once again. Even if they don't make as much money as consumer iCrap, they do a LOT for the company's image the same way a Porsche 911 does even though you see a lot more Boxsters on the road than 911s. Apple has more than enough money to maintain a FULL product line. Bring back the Xserver and actually do right by the thing and the Enterprise market for once. Don't let the ultra-thin/gaunt/toy legacy be Apple's only future, Mr. Cook.

 

[LarryC]

Very well said, Sir. Very well indeed!

No, YOU have no place. I'm so tired of this canned corporate BS parroting. You seem to think just because you don't think for yourself and let Apple dictate everything you do and think in life that EVERYONE must do the same thing. Well, I've got news for you pal. A LOT of us want a mid-range tower Mac and we don't want no stinking sissy iMac or overpriced Mac Pro workstation. But people like you can't get that through your head. You can't even COMPREHEND it.



You apparently don't know WTF overlap is. A mid-range expandable tower has NO overlap with a freaking unexpandable Mac Mini and the Mac Pro is a professional WORKSTATION that costs a freaking fortune for the base model. That is not overlap. That is an entirely different market. The only reason ANY consumers buy one is because there isn't ANY other option with expansion and that's just fracking ridiculous in 2012.

Now that Mr. Jobs is getting his just deserve in the after-life, Tim Cook would be wise to step up and start putting out real computer products and professional product lines once again. Even if they don't make as much money as consumer iCrap, they do a LOT for the company's image the same way a Porsche 911 does even though you see a lot more Boxsters on the road than 911s. Apple has more than enough money to maintain a FULL product line. Bring back the Xserver and actually do right by the thing and the Enterprise market for once. Don't let the ultra-thin/gaunt/toy legacy be Apple's only future, Mr. Cook.

 

[xgman]

I wonder which model Tim has on his desk at the office and at home.

 

[milo]

No Mac Pro announcement at WWDC 2012 = No New Mac Pro.

Disagree. Apple has sometimes announced hardware at WWDC but plenty of times where they have announced hardware soon before or soon after. Lack of announcement at WWDC means absolutely nothing, they'll announce when they have hardware ready to ship.

 

[fertilized-egg]

You apparently don't know WTF overlap is. A mid-range expandable tower has NO overlap with a freaking unexpandable Mac Mini and the Mac Pro is a professional WORKSTATION that costs a freaking fortune for the base model.
...
Even if they don't make as much money as consumer iCrap, they do a LOT for the company's image the same way a Porsche 911 does even though you see a lot more Boxsters on the road than 911s.

I agree about the mid-range tower having a viable position but isn't Mac Pro the one for the halo effect? You're basically talking about a smaller and more affordable version of Mac Pro, which is akin to asking for a Boxster because 911 is too expensive.

 

[314631]

No, YOU have no place. I'm so tired of this canned corporate BS parroting. You seem to think just because you don't think for yourself and let Apple dictate everything you do and think in life that EVERYONE must do the same thing. Well, I've got news for you pal. A LOT of us want a mid-range tower Mac and we don't want no stinking sissy iMac or overpriced Mac Pro workstation. But people like you can't get that through your head. You can't even COMPREHEND it.

You certainly won't be getting your mid-range tower Mac, no matter how many people you insult on here. Wardenski and others are not parroting corporate BS. They are giving you the truth.

Apple isn't going to suddenly expand its Mac product line by introducing an also-ran product that is already on deaths door with PC OEMs. Apple is in the business of creating exceptional products that deliver incredible consumer experiences. The Mac Pro already looks out of place in the existing product family. Apple isn't going to add to the Mac Pro with a cheaper version of the dinosaur desktop.

 

[milo]

I agree about the mid-range tower having a viable position but isn't Mac Pro the one for the halo effect? You're basically talking about a smaller and more affordable version of Mac Pro, which is akin to asking for a Boxster because 911 is too expensive.

The product line has room for both.

There are users who need the really high end 8/12 core machines.
There are also users for whom a reasonably priced 4/6 core with less expansion would be perfect.

It's a good thing to have a complete product line instead of one with gaping holes.

Apple is in the business of creating exceptional products that deliver incredible consumer experiences.

Funny, looking at the base model of the Mac Pro gives the impression they're in the business of creating products that:
1) Are vastly overpriced
2) Have lousy performance

Apple already sells a machine that PERFORMS like a midrange tower, they just overprice it to about double what it should actually cost. I agree that Apple probably won't create a totally separate model, but it's hardly unreasonable to suggest that they get their act together on that part of the product line and build a machine they can sell that's at a price that's competitive.

At one point Apple sold the base powermac for $1699. There's no reason they couldn't sell a model with the same performance as their current $2499 model for darn close to that (even with a typical Apple markup). Just look at the iMac as a reference, a tower with those same specs shouldn't cost more than the equivalent iMac, probably should be even cheaper because the display costs more than the few extra components in the tower, plus it doesn't have the costs of trying to cram everything into a more compact form factor.

 

[bpaluzzi]

.

 

[therealseebs]

Thank heavens you have absolutely no decision making in this process. The crash and burn of Apple in the 80s would be nothing compared to damage you'd bring.

How exactly would Apple be worse off selling me a bunch of $1500 computers instead of a bunch of $600 computers?

I don't need the high-end stuff (and in any event, the Mac Pro isn't high end anymore). On the other hand, I'd VERY happily pay $1500 for a tower that had more expansion options than a Mini, without being a $2500+ Mac Pro.

So instead I'm running a Core 2 Duo mini on 10.5.8 because the current minis don't solve the problems I have (I want more expansion options; specifically, I would like more than 4 *non-hub* USB ports because music software is sometimes fussy about timing), and starting to think seriously about moving my music stuff to Linux, because Reaper works well enough there and Apple doesn't seem to be particularly interested in the mid-range market.

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Apple is in the business of creating exceptional products that deliver incredible consumer experiences.

A very narrow range of consumer experiences.

General observation: When people who have been fans of your products for ten or twenty years are being told by other fans of your products to stop buying your products, that's a bad sign. Angry and defensive fans are a sign that there are problems that people are unwilling to confront because they have emotional investment.

I like Apple, but there are markets they are not serving, and some of those markets have potential impact on the markets they are serving. The Apple product lineup for a prospective software developer is not nearly as good as it used to be. The game development and gaming options are pretty lame. And the fact is, people buy software that was written by developers, and people sometimes like to play games. A platform that ignores the kinds of systems developers and gamers want is going to lose some people, and some developer support. Maybe not much, but it all adds up.

And here's the thing... The only downside to expanding the product line a bit is that... hmm. Wait, there isn't really one. The hipsters and fanatics who angrily decry the horrible possibility of Apple making a product someone else wants will defend whatever Apple does no matter what, and will immediately start talking about how great it is to see Apple branching out into new markets.

Back in the day, I used to read MacAddict (I stopped when they stopped being silly). I remember reading their long article about how smart Apple was to go with 66MHz PCI instead of AGP, then the long period during which there were no graphics upgrades available because no one made 66MHz PCI cards, and then the new article about how awesome it was that Apple was finally moving to AGP.

Outside of Apple-is-always-right fanboy land, Apple shoulda gone to AGP sooner, and Apple users would have been better off.

Never get so blinded by the halo effect that you can't evaluate the things a company does on their own merit.

 

[xgman]

All indications are that Apple is not so slowly moving away form the desktop business, not looking to add new desktop products. Also, in case you didn't notice, Apple doesn't take suggestions.

 

[GSPice]

I have come from 2011 to say,

Sorry if Apple doesn't make a product that perfectly fits your needs; they make a kick-a55 product that perfectly fits mine.

Oh and the Mac Pro is not dead.

::boarding time machine::

 

[Renzatic]

Also, in case you didn't notice, Apple doesn't take suggestions.

I've always been amazed by this attitude. Like the greatest thing a company can do is dictate what their customers should be using their computers for, and flat out refuse to listen to them when they make a request for something they need.

"I happily support Apple despite the fact they've show they're more than willing to abandon their customers for that all important bottom line, and tell me to shut up when I have the gall and audacity to suggest otherwise. If they nix a feature I used to use their computers for...well...I guess I'm just not all that important in the grand scheme of things, am I? I'm sorry, Apple. I'll work through the loss, and deal with it . OH CRAP NEW THING FROM APPLE HERE'S MORE OF MY MONEY OH GOD I LOVE YOU SO".

 

[xgman]

I've always been amazed by this attitude. Like the greatest thing a company can do is dictate what their customers should be using their computers for, and flat out refuse to listen to them when they make a request for something they need.

"I happily support Apple despite the fact they've show they're more than willing to abandon their customers for that all important bottom line, and tell me to shut up when I have the gall and audacity to suggest otherwise. If they nix a feature I used to use their computers for...well...I guess I'm just not all that important in the grand scheme of things, am I? I'm sorry, Apple. I'll work through the loss, and deal with it . OH CRAP NEW THING FROM APPLE HERE'S MORE OF MY MONEY OH GOD I LOVE YOU SO".

I don't like it one bit either, but, I have too much invested now in Mac only software and am quite used to the OSX way of doing things. I do hate the limitations on the hardware though, but, I would likely be spending 3-4 times as much as I used to do in the PC world, updating every few months something or another. That's one reason I moved to mac to begin with. I do think that all this secrecy on the pro front is just ridiculously unnecessary though. So, I wait with everyone else to see what big brother has in store for us.

Oh, and by the way, they don't tell you to shut up, they just ignore you. Then you go buy their product like all the other people who complain in the forums.

 

[deconstruct60]

You apparently don't know WTF overlap is. A mid-range expandable tower has NO overlap with a freaking unexpandable Mac Mini and the Mac Pro is a professional WORKSTATION that costs a freaking fortune for the base model.

Over course there is an overlap. The adjectives you use outline exactly where it is. "costs a freaking fortune". System price is a very significant factor in choosing which system to buy, if not the most significant factor for a large number of users. A $899-1,600 xMac would greatly overlap with a $1,100-1,900 iMac and slightly overlap with the $999 Mini.

If Price didn't make any significant difference then most of the folks complaining would just buy the Mac Pro. It does. Hence the endless rants about why Apple needs to make an xMac.

The question isn't whether the market exists. The largely unanswered question is how much damage to the iMac market an xMac would do. The purely hand-waving arguments state they are completely separate. That is a farce. They are not. It is completely irrational to argue that price is a non factor ( won't cut into iMacs ) and a major factor ( Mac Pros are too expensive) at the same time.

The other farce is that "Apple needs to cover every sub-market in order to grow". A 10 year tract record of Mac sales says otherwise.

The xMac is somewhat different than want can be done with an iMac. With the addition of Thunderbolt, that difference has getting smaller over time not larger. Apple is betting they can make the significant gaps smaller over time so there is no significant impact on overall Mac growth. At one point the iMac had mobile CPU packages. Now it has desktop ones. A reversal from the GPU vendors of the contest of who can make the hottest GPU would likely make putting a desktop GPU viable in a future iMac. There is billions in industry R&D aligned with Apple's direction with the iMac over the long term.


So far there isn't much empirical concrete evidence that they are on the wrong track.

There was much yelping about the doom of Mac OS X Server when the XServe was killed off. There are more OS X Server instances deployed now than before the termination.

 

[righteye]

I wonder which model Tim has on his desk at the office and at home.

ipad

EDIT;

well maybe two ipads

 

[fertilized-egg]

The product line has room for both.
...
Apple already sells a machine that PERFORMS like a midrange tower, they just overprice it to about double what it should actually cost.

Ignoring the outdated hardware since it's soon to be updated, where can I get a 27" all-in-one like iMac with that kind of build quality and display at $850?

But I see what you mean. You just want an inexpensive no-frills Mac that performs like a champ. However you've just answered your own question. It's a low margin product segment that takes the focus away from the Mac division and presumably the Mac division is already suffering a little bit by no longer being the top focal point of Apple.

Apple's margin with Macs is already fairy low in comparison to iDevices and I just don't think they want to pay too much attention to low margin area where they cannot really do too much innovation and not even a halo product like Mac Pro.

 

[Eidorian]

Ignoring the outdated hardware since it's soon to be updated, where can I get a 27" all-in-one like iMac with that kind of build quality and display at $850?

But I see what you mean. You just want an inexpensive no-frills Mac that performs like a champ. However you've just answered your own question. It's a low margin product segment that takes the focus away from the Mac division and presumably the Mac division is already suffering a little bit by no longer being the top focal point of Apple.

Apple's margin with Macs is already fairy low in comparison to iDevices and I just don't think they want to pay too much attention to low margin area where they cannot really do too much innovation and not even a halo product like Mac Pro.

The monitor or the computer? The U2711 dips low at $830 on sale and ~$650 refurbished. I know everyone wanted to slam the value of that 27" panel in my face for the new iMac but we have no idea what the real cost is. Not to mention Apple is not the only kid on the block that can charge a premium on display panels. Anything over 24" is going to be some IPS/PLS wallet buster. 24" panels have just only dropped into the $300-500 with eIPS/S-IPS at 1920 x 1200. Did I mention the Dell also has a wider gamut?

It is really time for notebook makers to get out of the cheapest TN panel on earth race for notebooks.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

You certainly won't be getting your mid-range tower Mac, no matter how many people you insult on here. Wardenski and others are not parroting corporate BS. They are giving you the truth.

Apple isn't going to suddenly expand its Mac product line by introducing an also-ran product that is already on deaths door with PC OEMs. Apple is in the business of creating exceptional products that deliver incredible consumer experiences. The Mac Pro already looks out of place in the existing product family. Apple isn't going to add to the Mac Pro with a cheaper version of the dinosaur desktop.

Just another clueless individual to put on the ignore list since nothing you say isn't already said by Apple press releases. Try to learn to think and do things for yourselves for once in your life. You might amaze yourself. I mean seriously, you think YOUR needs and/or what Apple wants to give to you speaks for EVERYONE ON THE PLANET. How utterly freaking CLUELESS can one person in this world possibly be? This is the day of the Facebook page and the Twitter and blog where everyone thinks their life is the center of the universe and everyone is a celebrity unto themselves and only their opinion amounts to a hill of beans and just because Apple doesn't offer a mid-range tower, that MUST mean there is NO MARKET for one (never mind that the vast majority of ALL computers sold up until a few years ago were mini-towers and only recently passed by notebooks. So now there is "no" market left even when Apple is the ONLY maker of OSX computers???? WHAT A CROCK OF BS.

You are clearly confusing a lack of Apple being willing to sell models people want with people wanting the models Apple are pushing. Many of us that buy Macs want OSX, not the "Mac" hardware itself (WTF CARES about that? If anything, being able to get USB3 sooner rather than later and a notebook that has a matte screen, a removable battery, expansion port, USB3, separate FW 400/800 ports, a full-size DVI port, a DVD-RW drive (better yet Blu-Ray), a gigabit Ethernet port (you know the stuff they had in 2008 when they made the best MBP setup ever). No, they IGNORE what their consumers want/ask-for/give feedback on and do their own thing and pray that people will still buy it. Yes, the iPhone and associated products were a big hit, but since when has ANY of the Mac lines been huge sales? They sold more iOS devices in the past year than the ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE MAC COMPUTER!!!! That tells me they're ignoring what people want or they'd be doing a LOT better in Mac sales.

So continue to live in utter ignorance and think Apple is your god and knows everything there is to know. The earth is flat and the center of the universe too.

Thank heavens you have absolutely no decision making in this process. The crash and burn of Apple in the 80s would be nothing compared to damage you'd bring.

I'd thank God if ignorant people like yourself don't have children and spread your ignorance onto yet another generation.

 

[fertilized-egg]

The monitor or the computer? The U2711 dips low at $830 on sale and ~$650 refurbished. I know everyone wanted to slam the value of that 27" panel in my face for the new iMac but we have no idea what the real cost is.

No, I meant an integrated all-in-one PC with good build quality and 27" IPS monitor. milo suggested that the iMac should cost half its price and I simply questioned his claim even though I understand his post was probably exaggerated for effect.

 

[Eidorian]

No, I meant an integrated all-in-one PC with good build quality and 27" IPS monitor. milo suggested that the iMac should cost half its price and I simply questioned his claim even though I understand his post was probably exaggerated for effect.

Some people just want to replace everything but the monitor. My desktop is just under 3 years old and still overkill. I have upgraded the video card and moved to a SSD though.

More vocal users are still miffed with the loss of the single socket 2.0 GHz Power Mac G5 for $1,499 back in 2005 facing off against a near identical 2.0 GHz iMac for the same price. It has been downhill since then. You can not even easily just easily pop the back off the iMac like you once could. Which was a marketing feature at one point...

 

[bpaluzzi]

.

 

[MythicFrost]

just because Apple doesn't offer a mid-range tower, that MUST mean there is NO MARKET for one (never mind that the vast majority of ALL computers sold up until a few years ago were mini-towers and only recently passed by notebooks. So now there is "no" market left even when Apple is the ONLY maker of OSX computers???? WHAT A CROCK OF BS.

You are clearly confusing a lack of Apple being willing to sell models people want with people wanting the models Apple are pushing. Many of us that buy Macs want OSX, not the "Mac" hardware itself (WTF CARES about that? If anything, being able to get USB3 sooner rather than later and a notebook that has a matte screen, a removable battery, expansion port, USB3, separate FW 400/800 ports, a full-size DVI port, a DVD-RW drive (better yet Blu-Ray), a gigabit Ethernet port (you know the stuff they had in 2008 when they made the best MBP setup ever). No, they IGNORE what their consumers want/ask-for/give feedback on and do their own thing and pray that people will still buy it. Yes, the iPhone and associated products were a big hit, but since when has ANY of the Mac lines been huge sales? They sold more iOS devices in the past year than the ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE MAC COMPUTER!!!! That tells me they're ignoring what people want or they'd be doing a LOT better in Mac sales.

All a mid tower would do is hurt Mac Mini and iMac sales, you'd sooner see Apple drop the price of the base Mac Pro to $1,499 rather than carrying the +$1k premium it has (at the time I checked a year and a half or so ago) over the competition.

But by the looks of it the Mac Pro may go the way of the XServe -- I hope not though.

 

[greenmeanie]

One of the biggest buyers of MP's where probably Schools.
Ours went and bought all IMACS like I am sure all the other macs schools did too.

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Why would they have bothered making drivers to cover all nvidia cards if they where dumping the MP?

 

[Wardenski]

Over course there is an overlap. The adjectives you use outline exactly where it is. "costs a freaking fortune". System price is a very significant factor in choosing which system to buy, if not the most significant factor for a large number of users. A $899-1,600 xMac would greatly overlap with a $1,100-1,900 iMac and slightly overlap with the $999 Mini.

Well said.

No, YOU have no place. I'm so tired of this canned corporate BS parroting. You seem to think just because you don't think for yourself and let Apple dictate everything you do and think in life that EVERYONE must do the same thing. Well, I've got news for you pal. A LOT of us want a mid-range tower Mac and we don't want no stinking sissy iMac or overpriced Mac Pro workstation. But people like you can't get that through your head. You can't even COMPREHEND it.

I think for myself, I think that a mid-range tower is not in Apples interest to make regardless if there is a market for it. The current strategy is working, Mac sales, both laptops and desktops are increasing. PC sales are falling.

The iMac especially is an iconic product, they won't realse a boring mid range tower that is similar in price.

Before jobs, Apple was the British Leyland of computer producers, its own product range competed against itself. I firmly beleive a mid-range headless Mac would do this. This is my opinion, get over it.

 

[Wardenski]

Now that Mr. Jobs is getting his just deserve in the after-life, Tim Cook would be wise to step up and start putting out real computer products and professional product lines once again. Even if they don't make as much money as consumer iCrap, they do a LOT for the company's image the same way a Porsche 911 does even though you see a lot more Boxsters on the road than 911s. Apple has more than enough money to maintain a FULL product line. Bring back the Xserver and actually do right by the thing and the Enterprise market for once. Don't let the ultra-thin/gaunt/toy legacy be Apple's only future, Mr. Cook.

That iCrap is part of what makes Apple successful but you don't have to buy it. Also, that iCrap promotes Macs. If you like an iPhone then your maybe more likely to buy a Mac.

Apple don't do enterprise, what planet do you live on. I do not understand why Apple needs to consume all possible markets. MS own that market as they do with games.