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Well, with $120B in cash they could easily afford a 51% stake and drive them into the ground.

In all seriousness though, I wasn't being that serious, just quick, albeit unfounded, observation.

It obviously wouldn't be in anyone's interest for Apple to buy Google or Samsung, nor would it be viable, but I can't help but feel like Steve's "thermo-nuclear war" might have included a mad-cap plan like that if he was still with us.

I don't think people understand...Samsung Electronics/Mobile is part of the Samsung Group.

Its assets alone are worth 384 billion dollars, let alone total value and market cap. No one can buy Samsung.

Steve's " Thermonuclear War ", if it meant buying google, would be stopped dead in its track's by the DOJ. And at this point, Apple can't afford Google.

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Apple could just buy Samsung, in cash. That'd solve a lot of problems.

Or 50% of Google.

Samsung Group's assets alone are worth 380+ Billion, so nope.

A 50% buy of Google would use up all of Apples Cash reserves, and be blocked by the DOJ.

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Yes, I'm sure someday everyone will crave a plastic Samsung.

Why the hate on Plastic? I've owned Plastic phones over the years that are way more durable than an iPhone.

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Considering Samsung's market cap is $177.6B, not really.

You need to look at the Samsung Group as a whole, its Assets alone are worth 380 Billion+, You can['t look at just Samsung Mobile, Samsung Group controls every single part of Samsung, no one can afford to buy out the Samsung Group.
 
iPhones have taken centerstage...

The figure that 51% revenue from iPhones only is unbelievable.

But I think a major share of these iPhone sales should go to the apps developers considering the number of apps that flood iTunes everyday.:D

Originally selling the Mac, now tops with the iPhone. Nobody buys Macs these days or what..?
 
Exactly. Way to be disappointed.

Apple have to be disappointed because of Samsung financial results for the last quarter -

http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/25/3555110/samsung-posts-operating-profit-8-12-trillion-won-q3-2012

"Samsung has just released its financial results for Q3 2012, and it's a big one. Sales of smartphones and display panels drove up revenues to 52.18 trillion won (about $47.5 billion), a 26 percent increase over the same time frame last year. Operating profits came in at 8.12 trillion won — approximately $7.4 billion, and an all-time high for the company — which amounts to a whopping 91 percent increase from last year."

Upsss...;)
 
Just like the iPad 3 owners upgrading to 4, for what?

Not me though. i'll purchase when i need and get value out of my purchases.

You're so sensible. That's what I like about Germans.

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At this rate in like 50 years maybe I dunno Apple could be a company with more cash/liquid assets on hand then it's own market cap (total share value). Now that'd be pretty crazy.

You write so intellectually and then write 'dunno'
I just don't get it.

BTW I think think your market cap theory is not possible
 
I got out...Got in at $590 in May. Should've exited at $700, but left at $611.

Sure, Apple makes money, but for an investor Q1 2013 estimates are at a lower % than Q1 2012 estimates.

I'm not saying Apple the company is doomed but I'm saying AAPL (as in the stock) is.

You should not invest money in the stock market, you are bad at it.

Apple is still massively undervalued. That you managed to only eek out a 3% return means you are doing it very wrong.
 
It is not like they have it all sitting around in low yield checking account. Their last balance sheet showed $19B in Short Term Investments, and $89B in Long Term Investments. From their financial statements it is a little hard to tell how big of a return they are getting on those investments. From 2010 to 2011 they went from $25B to $55B in long term investments, after depositing $24B into investments that year. Back of the envelope shows a 24% return on long term investments over that year.

Having a hord of cash is a strategic advantage for Apple that allows them to enter into supplier agreements that others are not able to. This allows Apple to get high quality Flash, and displays at a good price that other companies can not. They can write multi-billion dollar checks to their suppliers to buy up their supply at a low cost.

Agree 100%. Apples liquidity allows them to do things nobody else can do. As things continue to sour with Samsung it is likely apple will have to finance the development, build out and ramp up of other suppliers with a fairly significant outlay of cash.

Apples huge cash pile is essentially a nuclear arsenal that can be aimed at Samsung and gives apple leverage. So while Samsung might know in some supplier areas they have the best product for apple, they can't threaten apple with it because apple has the resources to break away from Samsung as a supplier if they had to do it. It would be short term messy and very expensive but apple could pull it off. Which on the other hand would be a big issue for Samsung losing their largest customer.

Also as apple potential moves into new markets being able to quickly finance suppliers growth is a massive asset, especially in an already competitive market or more importantly an emerging one.

I see Microsoft and google making some huge investments that I think were not financially sound and I would much rather apple keep their flexibility for growth and smart opportunities (the 400-500 million dollar companies with cutting edge technology vs 12 billion dollar dinosaurs with lots of baggage) , keep the gun at samsungs head and invest in new opportunities.

The last few days I have really kept going back to the idea of apple having a video hosting service. At first thought I balk and believe it a mistake and outside their scope but then I think like google and amazon they have now built and continue to add a ton of data capability. As you grow that it simply becomes much easier to offer expanded data based services. Thinking about that and integration with their product lines and video recording as well as a disconnect from google and I could see apple going that route.

That being said to successfully do that , say buy an existing video hosting technology or companies and then expand it, would only take a tiny fraction of resources. Apple continues to expand iAds, they already sell massive amounts of music, which could tie in nicely with a video hosting service.

Anyways I feel diversification is one of the hardest obstacles for the largest company in the world or the smallest. Pursuing multiple routes with smart financial management means even if your batting average is lower you will end up growing the company effectively.
 
I hope I won't jinx it but just wanted to say it's great this thread has been able to have an intelligent debate without devolving into trolling and flaming just because users disagree with others thoughts on AAPLs share price.

Totally agree.

So good to have a thread on here without Sumsung/Android fanboys jumping in and sniping about Apple too.

As a shareholder I wish Apple would get China Mobile on board ASAP. Also, I want a iPhone 5 released on China rapidly. My plan is to get out before January's results are out.
 
I got out...Got in at $590 in May. Should've exited at $700, but left at $611.

Sure, Apple makes money, but for an investor Q1 2013 estimates are at a lower % than Q1 2012 estimates.

I'm not saying Apple the company is doomed but I'm saying AAPL (as in the stock) is.

Why is it doomed? It is trading at 14 Earning Per Share ratio. Those earnings are projected to grow significantly over the next five years. Unless you think it will start trading at 10 times earnings or even 9 times earnings, doesn't the stock pretty much have to go up over the next five years?

Both the Smartphone and Tablet market are just going to continue to grow. And Apple dominates each of them. A really can't see any possible result in the next year but continued growth and high profits. I'm not saying Aapl is going to 1,000, but am I expecting dividends and 10 to 15% appreciation, sure I am.
 
What's overly simplified is this crazy libertarian/Ayn Randian idiotology of objectivism that people easily dupe themselves into buying into.

Money in itself is not alive has no mind of its own so it is unfair to say that it has no morals. However, human beings, who are alive, have a brain, and have a sense of morals and ethics should be using the tool of money for well, moral things.

Yeah right, happens every day.

Dream on!
 
Agree 100%. Apples liquidity allows them to do things nobody else can do. As things continue to sour with Samsung it is likely apple will have to finance the development, build out and ramp up of other suppliers with a fairly significant outlay of cash.

Apples huge cash pile is essentially a nuclear arsenal that can be aimed at Samsung and gives apple leverage. So while Samsung might know in some supplier areas they have the best product for apple, they can't threaten apple with it because apple has the resources to break away from Samsung as a supplier if they had to do it. It would be short term messy and very expensive but apple could pull it off. Which on the other hand would be a big issue for Samsung losing their largest customer.

Also as apple potential moves into new markets being able to quickly finance suppliers growth is a massive asset, especially in an already competitive market or more importantly an emerging one.

I really don't think Apple would lend money to suppliers so they can build out. There are banks to provide capital and they do a good job with it. Maybe Apple could do a downpayment on some shipments (say a $1 billion) or Apple could sign an iron clad contract to buy massive amounts of stuff from a supplier. The supplier would then get financing from its bank based on the projected cash flow from the contract.

But none of this stuff would be in the 10's of billions. A billion here or there just doesn't put a dent in this cash bucket.

So I really don't think this allows Apple to do much. Mainly, Apple is waiting for Congress to declare a tax holiday on foreign earnings. If (and probably when in the case of Romney being elected) that happens, Apple will bring the foreign cash back tax free and declare a massive dividend (especially if dividends are still taxed at just 15% or even lower under a Romney presidency). There should be utter revolt by the shareholders if they don't do that.
 
We're going to have to agree to disagree I guess, surveys and supply checks are not actual sales information. Example being they wouldn't have projected ~8 million iPhone 5's in 48 hours. Apple NEVER would have projected 8 million since they knew they didn't have 8 million analysts didn't know there was supply constraints.

That's actually a perfect example of my point. Analysts knew exactly how many iPhone 5's were sold opening weekend before releasing their final estimates. Because Apple released the number. They also had the benefit of iPhone sales by carriers in some cases.

Apple's guidance was released before any of that was known.
 
But the people that move it around do, and should move it around accordingly. Unfortunately, you're right, that in the US, the culture is anti-ethics, which is why I've moved our company over the border to Ontario. While you guys squabble about how little you can pay for as little services as possible, I gladly pay slightly higher (but still relatively low, worldwide) taxes knowing it goes to improving the quality of life for the culture as a whole. All comes down to what value you want your lifes work to have.

The people forget about ethics and morals when the amount of money and financial gain is big enough. This is done by the wealthy (and many criminals) every day!

Legally and with the government's blessing. (leveraged buyouts, government subsidies, tax incentives etc.)

Sadly, your idealistic wish is not reality.

Not just in the US
 
If you believe in portfolio theory, you don't put all your eggs (and more) in one basket, even with 99% winning odds. Or gamblers ruin and black swans will eventually feast on your grave.

Or maybe you're just hiding under a bridge hoping that the OP will become your tasty morsel...

Guaranteed 10% returns in a month or less don't come around every day. I was responding specifically to that argument as advanced by the poster. Somewhat satirically perhaps, but if someone is going to tell us with total certainty exactly what price a stock will achieve over the coming month, satire is an appropriate response.

What your response has to do with any of this, I have no idea.
 
anybody know if the iphone5 was counted in the qrt they just reported? I thought the first couple days of the launch were part of the past qrt......but i cant find confirmation.

anybody know the answer to this?
 
Agree 100%. Apples liquidity allows them to do things nobody else can do. As things continue to sour with Samsung it is likely apple will have to finance the development, build out and ramp up of other suppliers with a fairly significant outlay of cash.

Apples huge cash pile is essentially a nuclear arsenal that can be aimed at Samsung and gives apple leverage. So while Samsung might know in some supplier areas they have the best product for apple, they can't threaten apple with it because apple has the resources to break away from Samsung as a supplier if they had to do it. It would be short term messy and very expensive but apple could pull it off. Which on the other hand would be a big issue for Samsung losing their largest customer.

Also as apple potential moves into new markets being able to quickly finance suppliers growth is a massive asset, especially in an already competitive market or more importantly an emerging one.

Except that they don't need anywhere close to $110B to do any of this. And no matter how much money they've accumulated, Apple cannot magically create manufacturing capacity, which is what "breaking away" from Samsung (or anyone else) really implies. Creating manufacturing capacity requires investment, but not on the scale of $100B or anything like it. What's more, Apple has shown no interest in building their own manufacturing capacity. I think there's a general lack of appreciation for the vast amount of money represented by Apple's liquid assets, or the rate at which they continue to accumulate it. What they have banked is so far beyond the level of useful capital resources that it has reached genuinely absurd proportions, and this figure only grows.

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anybody know the answer to this?

However many were shipped before the end of the fiscal quarter would count towards that quarter.
 
Iphone 5 4Q estimated went from 50M to 60m (after the 2m pre-order in 24 hours) and now down to 40m units and no one is confidence at 40m either since Foxconn is still fighting the quality issue. And now we find out that Apple gross margin in 4Q will be at most in the mid-30% vs 40% in 3Q12 and 43+% in 2Q12.. So the most important product for Apple is supply constraint and the margin across the board is going down.. Is there any reason the stock should not go down? Based on Apple estimate, 4Q12 will be the first Q that earning will be down yoy for a very long teim

Thanks for that. Puts the figures in a whole new light. It's a difficult one isn't it because in order to keep growing their top line revenues they need to keep bringing out new/updated products which creates manufacturing problems and they need to compete against the tidal wave of new tablets by keeping their prices and margins competitive.

In a way that's why I think it was probably a good idea to introduce a stock dividend. Try and drive out the speculators who continually drive the share price up and down with their wild predictions and put the stock back into the hands of their fans and customers so that it can go back to rising slowly but steadily over time. I would probably invest if they did that.
 
You should not invest money in the stock market, you are bad at it.

Apple is still massively undervalued. That you managed to only eek out a 3% return means you are doing it very wrong.

Haha...yeah...look at the swan dive AAPL is currently on.

Looks like I know what I'm talking about.

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Why is it doomed? It is trading at 14 Earning Per Share ratio. Those earnings are projected to grow significantly over the next five years. Unless you think it will start trading at 10 times earnings or even 9 times earnings, doesn't the stock pretty much have to go up over the next five years?

Both the Smartphone and Tablet market are just going to continue to grow. And Apple dominates each of them. A really can't see any possible result in the next year but continued growth and high profits. I'm not saying Aapl is going to 1,000, but am I expecting dividends and 10 to 15% appreciation, sure I am.

Look at the swan dive...AAPL is TANKING!
 
Haha...yeah...look at the swan dive AAPL is currently on.

Looks like I know what I'm talking about.

Those who mistake random fluctuations for knowledge are the ones most likely to get fleeced. The current price swings are small compared to the real historical swan dives (several since their IPO).

Some computer programs somewhere are probably magnifying and milking these price swings, and thus any trading you do because you think you "know".
 
Thanks for that. Puts the figures in a whole new light. It's a difficult one isn't it because in order to keep growing their top line revenues they need to keep bringing out new/updated products which creates manufacturing problems and they need to compete against the tidal wave of new tablets by keeping their prices and margins competitive.

In a way that's why I think it was probably a good idea to introduce a stock dividend. Try and drive out the speculators who continually drive the share price up and down with their wild predictions and put the stock back into the hands of their fans and customers so that it can go back to rising slowly but steadily over time. I would probably invest if they did that.

Wish it is that simple. Apple stock price is built on Hugh gross margin throughout it's product line. you can build a bull case or a bear case easily by changing the assumption going forward for margin and volume. And the outcome is partially determined by Apple and partially determined by competition.
 
I have been buying and selling Apple stock since 2008. More each time and, yes, putting most of my eggs in one basket. So, I have a tidy double-my-money profit.

I didn't sell at 700, but did sell all but 50 today at 603.

I think stock could go still lower.

I didn't like a lot of things. ALL of the product upgrade rollouts at once? Can't meet supply as it is right now. Also, lowering guidance on Q! earnings from $15+ per share to $11+ per share, in part because of inability to meet demand, in part because of cost of all of these new upgrades and in part because of lower profit margins.

Also, the whole economic environment globally not too hot.

So...down went 750 share of Apple today. I feel it could go lower still since it broke under 600 in the wild after earnings trading last night.

This being said. I am still an Apple addict. The product is wonderful. I have my order in for a mini-iPad 64GB, 4G LTE. I will keep my iPad "new" for a second computer upstairs in my house, and use it also as a roving tv, since I can watch all my cable channels on it.

Just feeling a bit wary of all of these product roll-outs at once. Tim Cook sounding a little harried and desperate??

Technically, stock could go to mid 500s or lower. My first shares cost me $83 (maybe it was 07)....and each time, I sold for profit and bought back in, buying more. So now, time to watch and wait.

terri
 
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