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AFAIK, non-compete agreements are not legal in California, although they are in NY state. As the violation will take place in CA, I am not sure how a NY court judgement might apply.

(Note I have no formal legal training.) As the "violation" does not occur in New York, but in California, the case would almost certainly be heard in California, where the courts would decline to enforce the non-compete as against public policy. (And before anyone asks, no, it's not as simple as waiting for him to leave California; jurisdiction over the case resides in California, and is thus where the case must be heard.)

There are some exceptions to the prohibition against non-compete agreements having to do with ownership interests, but I don't think they'd apply in this case (see http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/bpc/16600-16607.html for the exact statute).
 
Judge will throw it out, Non-Competes are total bs. You can't prevent someone from pursuing their livelihood.

that's not what IBM are doing.

when he started working at IBM, he obviously agreed not to work for a competitor for a certain number of years. he's free to have any other job in the world without violating that contract.
 
Hmm could Apple argue that IBM is not a direct competitor?

Since the IBM/Lenovo deal, doesn't that mean the two companies no longer have products that directly compete against each other?

Since Papermaster is a chip designer and Apple isn't in the chip business, how could Apple and IBM be competitors?
 
what a complete load of cobblers!

if its "trade secrets" then surely they're covered by a patent..........?
and obviously copy-righted code is protected.

you can't stop somebody from "learning on the job" then taking a position else where.....

If i learn verilog or java in job a, then leave and go to job b, surely I`ve a right to use those skills acquired....... doesn't the same apply to processor architecture?
 
Apple does not lean from history and previous errors! Remember the PowerPC vs Intel fiasco! A new fiasco is in the horizon for Apple. Apple cannot compete with chip makers like Intel, AMD or Via amongst others. Simply cannot compete. All this is a waste of time and resources. Thus, the Macs are not updated properly and the dream Apple tablet takes for ever to develop. A shame, Apple. Do not take me wrong, I just want the best for Apple and Apple customers like myself!
 
Wrong. Legally binding agreements are exactly that, and you're a fool if you think otherwise.
Problem being that noncompete clauses are quite frequently not legally binding. In fact, in California, they are presumptively invalid.

Exceptions exist, though, as always.
The PowerPC shall rise from the ashes!
Not really. Technology and expertise from PowerPC is useful, but there is nothing to suggest a return of PPC. This is just rehashing of the PA Semi rumors. They weren't purchased for their PPC designs.
As the "violation" does not occur in New York, but in California, the case would almost certainly be heard in California, where the courts would decline to enforce the non-compete as against public policy.
It's actually a good deal more complex than that. It matters where the employment agreement was signed, and whether it contains a choice of law clause. The location of the breach is less important, unless it comes down to the application of California law, in which case the clause will come under scrutiny.

It very may well be upheld, however, particularly when it involves a person with substantial technical expertise in a highly technical field, and the noncompete clause is narrowly tailored to protect the original employer's trade secrets.
(And before anyone asks, no, it's not as simple as waiting for him to leave California; jurisdiction over the case resides in California, and is thus where the case must be heard.)
California is the forum state. That does not mean that California law is the controlling law, nor does it mean that California is the only place jurisdiction exists.

There are some exceptions to the prohibition against non-compete agreements having to do with ownership interests, but I don't think they'd apply in this case (see http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/bpc/16600-16607.html for the exact statute).
Those are not the relevant exceptions. Exceptions based on trade secrets and unfair competition law are where IBM would go. IBM has a great deal of experience, both winning and losing, with these cases.
Judge will throw it out, Non-Competes are total bs. You can't prevent someone from pursuing their livelihood.
NCAs are frequently important where proprietary technology is involved and a person wants to accept a position with a close competitor. To allow the one-way sharing of that technology would be patently unfair, so as long as the clause is limited in time and scope to protect the company's proprietary interests, they absolutely can be valid. It does not prevent a person from pursuing his livelihood.
AFAIK, non-compete agreements are not legal in California, although they are in NY state. As the violation will take place in CA, I am not sure how a NY court judgement might apply. Besides, if IBM is not working on an ARM product, but if he will be working on such products at Apple, he could argue Apple is not a competitor.
They are not generall legal. The existence or absence of ARM products at IBM does not affect whether Apple is considered a close competitor. All that matters is whether the proprietary information at IBM could be applied to Apple's direct benefit, and that is a very difficult and fact-dependent question.
if its "trade secrets" then surely they're covered by a patent..........?
No. Trade secrets and patents are mutually exclusive. One requires disclosure, and the other is invalidated by disclosure.
If i learn verilog or java in job a, then leave and go to job b, surely I`ve a right to use those skills acquired....... doesn't the same apply to processor architecture?
Not necessarily. If you learn Java and develop code at job A, taking that same code to job B can be illegal. Developing or learning proprietary and confidential information in platform integration might very well be the same. There's an important difference between "skills" and "proprietary knowledge".
 
Not necessarily. If you learn Java and develop code at job A, taking that same code to job B can be illegal. Developing or learning proprietary and confidential information in platform integration might very well be the same. There's an important difference between "skills" and "proprietary knowledge".

can you elaborate on this, not arguing the point just curious.
seems a very grey area to me, however I can see the basis of your point.

obviously if I write code in job A its copyrighted to my employer A, and effectively owned by them (on their media, their time, paying my wage).
So if I leave job A i can't take that exact code to job B..... given.
But surely if the IP in the code is not patented, the ideas can be used in job B?
Say I code a brilliant new search algorithm, its not patented. Surely I can leave job A and use the algorithm (in some form) in another job/code ?
 
matticus008

Do you think part of the exceptions would arise from the ARM licensing both IBM and Apple possesses?
 
This is great news.

If nothing else, it's a reminder that Apple aren't married to chipzilla.

Add this chap to the talent-pool at PA Semi and I see a bright future glimmering on a distant horizon.
 
that's not what IBM are doing.

when he started working at IBM, he obviously agreed not to work for a competitor for a certain number of years. he's free to have any other job in the world without violating that contract.

And being an expert in micro-processor chip design, which job do you suggest he applies for?

Since Papermaster is a chip designer and Apple isn't in the chip business, how could Apple and IBM be competitors?

PA Semi and IBM were rivals. Apple has purchased PA Semi and this point is made by IBM.

So yes, they are rivals.
 
It should be quite apparent what direction Apple is going with this.

Since they (Apple) are a licensee of ARM microprocessor architectures they can effectively integrate every component into a single chip (System-on-a-Chip), meaning the future iPods and iPhones only need a single chip on the Print Circuit Board along with storage. This will enable Apple to have more control over various things like power consumption and what their products are capable of.
 
well Arm evolved as a risc processor. maybe the PB G5 is coming!
No, but the fact that ARM originated as a RISC architecture is significant, and why people with PPC experience (also RISC) are good acquisitions for future ARM products (like PA Semi and the hiring of Papermaster).
Do you think part of the exceptions would arise from the ARM licensing both IBM and Apple posses?
Not likely. The issue is whether Papermaster, while at IBM, was deeply involved with IBM trade secrets, proprietary technology, and particularized expertise--all of which IBM owns and continues to own and control--and would, either intentionally or unintentionally, divulge those secrets or provide Apple with the direct benefit of that technology and information.

This is the essence of unfair competition. Apple would unjustly benefit from research financed by IBM. This is the kind of case where NCAs are sometimes upheld as exceptions to the statute. Without knowing what he did specifically at IBM and what he does at Apple, there's no telling how things would turn out.
can you elaborate on this, not arguing the point just curious.
It's actually a very fascinating area, albeit a bit dry.
seems a very grey area to me,
Quite grey. But there's no other way for it to be. Any black and white standard would create unfairness in implementation on both sides. It's fuzzy because it really must be done on a case-by-case basis to make sure that the original employer can protect its investments and competitive arsenal, but also that the employee isn't unfairly prevented from having the career he wants and is skilled at. It's hard to quantify, because oftentimes a person is hired because of their former position--and that's valid, unless the hiring was a poaching for corporate espionage. But that person has to respect professional boundaries.

One of the great problems plaguing software development, in my experience, is that unlike doctors, lawyers, financiers, and accountants, professional ethics is not a formal part of the enterprise. People honestly don't know what the limits are because they were never taught in a systematic, consistent manner--because there's no system in the profession. But there is a legal system, which presumes that people know the rules.
But surely if the IP in the code is not patented, the ideas can be used in job B?
You can bring your skills and publicly-available knowledge to a new project, but there's a sliding scale, and at some point, ideas stop being ideas and start being specific implementations, which you might not be able to disclose.

Even if there's no NCA involved, you don't want to put yourself and/or new employer in a position to be sued for copyright or patent infringement or for trade secret misappropriation. It is always a bad sign (for the defense) in IP litigation to have a former employee of the plaintiff working for the defendant, directly on the product at issue.

Avoid verbatim reproduction or very similar implementations unless you own the code or have a license. If you're not sure, always ask someone in your legal department. They'll be able to provide more specific help. If you're self-employed, you can avoid a lot of the mess by meeting with an attorney and making sure that your project contracts leave you with the level of ownership and control you want. After that, you only have to talk to a lawyer when a client wants you to sign their contract instead of yours.

Basically, if it belongs to your employer, in whole or in part, then you're not free to disclose those portions to a new employer. When your job and that information become so tangled in each other that knowing the boundaries becomes almost impossible, that's when you get NCAs. If it prevents you from working in the field at all, it's probably not valid. If it only prevents employment in direct competition with the proprietary information, for a reasonable time, it may be valid.
 
Mmmm PA Semi + Chip designer???

They are probably designing their own iPhone chips..... Or perhaps not.

Perhaps they are going to build their own processors for the Mac. And before you all scoff, how about this,

1) They now own PA Semi Conductors (Low power chip fab experts)
2) They recruit a PowerPC Chip designer.
3) They have $25Billion in cash!

So here's my take. They are going to design and build a chip that is x86 compatible but has some sudo RISC instruction set thingy that allows for extremely fast speed but very low thermal envelope. That surely is the holy grail. A chip in the MB and MBP that doesn't drain the batter like a tap and gives huge amounts of speed. Steve did say they were going to do something that the market have to play catch up with.
 
Talent is talent. It doesn't matter if they're from IBM, Intel, or working at some other company, their skills are still valuable to Apple for whatever reason Apple ends up hiring them.

Sebastian

Exactly!

Apple wants this guy regardless of what they have planned, the man knows his stuff, he wasn't some plonker cleaning the dunnies over at IBM and that's why they're taking action, bit silly IMO.

"If Apple wants to continue its strategy of designing and building complete systems, hardware, software, and now chips for iPhone and iPod Touch, it's going to need someone who can predict the future of chip design and advise Jobs and Apple's executive team on how Apple can best take advantage of those trends. Papermaster, with a unique set of skills in the tech industry, might be just that guy."
 
It's actually a very fascinating area, albeit a bit dry.

Quite grey. But there's no other way for it to be. Any black and white standard would create unfairness in implementation on both sides. It's fuzzy because it really must be done on a case-by-case basis to make sure that the original employer can protect its investments and competitive arsenal, but also that the employee isn't unfairly prevented from having the career he wants and is skilled at. It's hard to quantify, because oftentimes a person is hired because of their former position--and that's valid, unless the hiring was a poaching for corporate espionage. But that person has to respect professional boundaries.

One of the great problems plaguing software development, in my experience, is that unlike doctors, lawyers, financiers, and accountants, professional ethics is not a formal part of the enterprise. People honestly don't know what the limits are because they were never taught in a systematic, consistent manner--because there's no system in the profession. But there is a legal system, which presumes that people know the rules.

You can bring your skills and publicly-available knowledge to a new project, but there's a sliding scale, and at some point, ideas stop being ideas and start being specific implementations, which you might not be able to disclose.

Even if there's no NCA involved, you don't want to put yourself and/or new employer in a position to be sued for copyright or patent infringement or for trade secret misappropriation. It is always a bad sign (for the defense) in IP litigation to have a former employee of the plaintiff working for the defendant, directly on the product at issue.

Avoid verbatim reproduction or very similar implementations unless you own the code or have a license. If you're not sure, always ask someone in your legal department. They'll be able to provide more specific help. If you're self-employed, you can avoid a lot of the mess by meeting with an attorney and making sure that your project contracts leave you with the level of ownership and control you want. After that, you only have to talk to a lawyer when a client wants you to sign their contract instead of yours.

Basically, if it belongs to your employer, in whole or in part, then you're not free to disclose those portions to a new employer. When your job and that information become so tangled in each other that knowing the boundaries becomes almost impossible, that's when you get NCAs. If it prevents you from working in the field at all, it's probably not valid. If it only prevents employment in direct competition with the proprietary information, for a reasonable time, it may be valid.


many thanks, I understand and agree. most interesting.
 
And being an expert in micro-processor chip design, which job do you suggest he applies for?

dissdnt said that IBM were stopping him from pursuing his livelihood, which they aren't. he had a contract with them, and he broke it when he accepted a position at apple, so they're suing.

as far a jobs go, do you want me to name every company in the industry that isn't an IBM competitor? if having a job was so important to him, then why did he leave IBM to work for a competing company knowing he wasn't legally allowed to?
 
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