Apple Refunded Me for Lion & I'm Switching Back to Snow Leopard Tomorrow.

[scottsjack]

One easy one is the lack of save as. I prefer maintaing my documents in an organization I choose and I prefer creating many of them with save as. Now I have to find alternatives.

An OS' job is to run programs, a good OS does not get in the way of people working. Lion gets in the way. Why should I be forced to change my workflow and those changes actually do not improve my work flow but decreases it.

My point is that Lion makes me work harder for me. You like it and it works well for you. You cannot go and now state that its going to be great for everyone they just need to change what they're doing to enjoy the OSX greatness.

Agreed; Save As is one of the biggest points of contention with me. Even the iWork save as an MS Office document is gone. Now you have to migrate it or some kind of menu thing.

Fortunately for me I've just begun to use Office for Mac 2011 so I'ved dumped Mail, Address Book and iCal (in the sense of not using them anymore) and dumped iWork (in the sense of sending it to the trash can).

Office still provides a Save As option so I'm back to Lion on my MBP just for entertainment purposes. No way is it going back on the MP.

Luckly I converted to Office while the MBP was back on SL. I've read that Office cannot import Lion mail.

 

[sidewinder]

One easy one is the lack of save as. I prefer maintaing my documents in an organization I choose and I prefer creating many of them with save as. Now I have to find alternatives.

An OS' job is to run programs, a good OS does not get in the way of people working. Lion gets in the way. Why should I be forced to change my workflow and those changes actually do not improve my work flow but decreases it.

My point is that Lion makes me work harder for me. You like it and it works well for you. You cannot go and now state that its going to be great for everyone they just need to change what they're doing to enjoy the OSX greatness.

The "Duplicate" option does what "Save As...." does with the added advantage of leaving the original in place. This whole "Save a Version" concept is a godsend because I now don't have to keep 10 copies of a document around as I make changes. They are all in one place with a simple interface to look at them all at one time. But, with "Duplicate", I can make separate files when I want to.

An OS works the way an OS works. It's job is to do what it does reliably. You can choose to hate how 10.7.x does what it does or you can get figure out to make it work for you.

S-

 

[scottsjack]

The "Duplicate" option does what "Save As...." does with the added advantage of leaving the original in place. This whole "Save a Version" concept is a godsend because I now don't have to keep 10 copies of a document around as I make changes. They are all in one place with a simple interface to look at them all at one time. But, with "Duplicate", I can make separate files when I want to.

An OS works the way an OS works. It's job is to do what it does reliably. You can choose to hate how 10.7.x does what it does or you can get figure out to make it work for you.

S-

No, Duplicate does not do the same as Save As!!! Save as gives you the option of saving the same file name to another location, adding a version number to your file (like Duplicate) or in the case of iWork saving an iWork file as an Office file.

 

[maflynn]

An OS works the way an OS works. It's job is to do what it does reliably. You can choose to hate how 10.7.x does what it does or you can get figure out to make it work for you.

I do not choose to hate 10.7 but rather, I choose to use the tool that best suits my needs. That is one thing you are failing to grasp. 10.7 works great for you and many others. That's awesome, but you cannot make blanket statements that 10.7 is going to be great for everyone.

As already stated by scottsjack, duplicates is not the same thing and works against me and that's my point exactly. I now have extra steps where I only had a single step before.

 

[sidewinder]

No, Duplicate does not do the same as Save As!!! Save as gives you the option of saving the same file name to another location, adding a version number to your file (like Duplicate) or in the case of iWork saving an iWork file as an Office file.

TextEdit and Preview let you save a "Duplicate" anywhere you like with any name you like in any format the application supports.

I don't use iWork. I have always used MS Office since I need full compatibility my Windows systems. So, if iWork doesn't do it right, that is something to complain to Apple about.

S-

 

[Gomff]

I bought lion but found that the main software I use for work was unstable. Plus other apps I rely on no longer work in it (We use periscope as security when out, which is no longer supported). So I'm waiting for it to mature whilst sticking to Snow Leopard for real mission critical work and everyday dependable usage.

Sure, for twitbook users, and filling Apple's coffers even more with purchases via the App store, lion is fine but quite few pro's are having issues.

 

[hayesk]

No, Duplicate does not do the same as Save As!!! Save as gives you the option of saving the same file name to another location, adding a version number to your file (like Duplicate) or in the case of iWork saving an iWork file as an Office file.

Huh? Duplicate + Save let's me save it as the same name to another location. Why can't you?And Export is for saving in another format. The fact that some apps let you do it with Save As is irrelevant. Many apps in SL used Export too and didn't let you use Save As to save it in another format. That's a criticism of the app, not of Lion.

Besides, this is just Apple's implementation in their own apps. There's nothing stopping a third party developer from using both Versions and have a Save As if you don't like to duplicate and save.

----------

I do not choose to hate 10.7 but rather, I choose to use the tool that best suits my needs. That is one thing you are failing to grasp. 10.7 works great for you and many others. That's awesome, but you cannot make blanket statements that 10.7 is going to be great for everyone.

As already stated by scottsjack, duplicates is not the same thing and works against me and that's my point exactly. I now have extra steps where I only had a single step before.

Except that scottsjack is wrong. Duplicate + Save lets you do everything you could in Snow Leopard, plus gives you the option of not having to save it right away, so you can just close the duplicate and not save if you don't like what you've done in it.

Sottsjack's complaint was only applicable to iWork, which apparently doesn't let you reformat when saving a duplicate. I can't confirm that, but iWork is not Lion.

 

[scottsjack]

TextEdit and Preview let you save a "Duplicate" anywhere you like with any name you like in any format the application supports.

I don't use iWork. I have always used MS Office since I need full compatibility my Windows systems. So, if iWork doesn't do it right, that is something to complain to Apple about.

S-

You've missed the essence of the conversation here. It’s not that Versions, Duplicate, Launchpad or any of the other new Lion "features" are either good or bad. If someone really likes Launchpad then it matters not that I think it looks like an app that should be installed on a computer for gradeschoolers.

The number one reason why Lion sucks is that the elitists who fashion themselves as guiding mankind to a new computer paradigm have not just added features to they new OS. They have in fact removed features that tens of millions of computer operators use.

Both OS X and Windows need to become more touch-screen friendly. That's where one segment of the market is headed. Buy why would you destroy tried and true desktop features? Is it not possible to have Save As and Versions on the same OS? There can't be a choice to either use the old smooth operating Spaces or the new clunky one?

No, I'm afraid that the folks in Cupertino have decided that we should move on and relearn how to operate computers in the manner that they've been fiddling with over the past year. I for one don't like that attitude.

That's why Lion sucks.

 

[roadbloc]

Not keen on Lion myself. Might switch back to Snow Leopard if I can be bothered. Lion certainly isn't Apple's best OS by a long way.

 

[sidewinder]

scottsjack,

As hayesk has already pointed out, Apple or any other app developer, can choose to use the "old way" or the "new way". Heck, they could even put an option in the app "Preferences" to let you choose which way you want to go.

Mac OS X 10.7.x is not forcing anyone to do anything. At least I have not read anywhere that the old calls have been deprecated.

S-

 

[MartiNZ]

You've missed the essence of the conversation here. It’s not that Versions, Duplicate, Launchpad or any of the other new Lion "features" are either good or bad. If someone really likes Launchpad then it matters not that I think it looks like an app that should be installed on a computer for gradeschoolers.

The number one reason why Lion sucks is that the elitists who fashion themselves as guiding mankind to a new computer paradigm have not just added features to they new OS. They have in fact removed features that tens of millions of computer operators use.

Both OS X and Windows need to become more touch-screen friendly. That's where one segment of the market is headed. Buy why would you destroy tried and true desktop features? Is it not possible to have Save As and Versions on the same OS? There can't be a choice to either use the old smooth operating Spaces or the new clunky one?

No, I'm afraid that the folks in Cupertino have decided that we should move on and relearn how to operate computers in the manner that they've been fiddling with over the past year. I for one don't like that attitude.

That's why Lion sucks.

Exactly. I can't see why some are finding it so hard to grasp that the changes are taking us in a really bad direction. No interest in 'adapting' to less productive workflows or kow-towing to an OS that 'knows better'.

It would be very easy to just give us back the old proper functionality, and until I know what version of a file I'm saving, what version I'm emailing, what version I'm copying to a memory stick, Lion just has it dangerously wrong. I never trusted TM backups in the first place, but now it's hard to make personal backups because I absolutely don't trust autosave/versions after a few run-ins. I -do- trust myself, but Lion doesn't let me anymore.

And Lion as it currently stands is forcing these things on us; no one has yet found a way to actually turn off autosave/versions - some think they have, but it is not so. The glimmer of hope with GraphicConverter's update with the option to have it on or off I'm afraid is only that; I can't see Apple backing down on this.

 

[natejohnstone@g]

I've considered requesting a refund, but I'm more or less confident that Apple will work the MANY bugs out of Lion, hopefully in the next couple months. I'm certainly disappointed that it was released too soon, and upset at myself for not reading more reviews and checking forums like this before I upgraded.

In the mean time, I'll go back to SL for now. Annoying, but not the end of the world.

I DO like how snappy Lion is about going to sleep and waking from it, that's great. I'm pretty much indifferent on Mission Control and Launchpad. But the myriad of problems I"m experiencing is ruining it at this point.

 

[ScottFitz]

Too many beach balls and loss of battery life on my brand new macbook pro. Unacceptable. and I'm a fan boy.

 

[makeyourmovenow]

Some good: some not so..

I like Lion. For me its opened up some new life in previous apps I wasn't using. But its a new beast in many ways and that means working out a few different methods to tame the beast.

My main gripe is Lion won't allow Logic Pro 8 to work, which in essence forces us to upgrade to Logic Pro 9. But I have found a way to bypass the lion deactivation.

Also, I love Versions, and if you want to save a doc under a new name, just duplicate the doc and rename it. no probs!

Overall I think its worth it.

 

[Hyper-X]

You've missed the essence of the conversation here. It’s not that Versions, Duplicate, Launchpad or any of the other new Lion "features" are either good or bad. If someone really likes Launchpad then it matters not that I think it looks like an app that should be installed on a computer for gradeschoolers.

The number one reason why Lion sucks is that the elitists who fashion themselves as guiding mankind to a new computer paradigm have not just added features to they new OS. They have in fact removed features that tens of millions of computer operators use.

My opinion differs. If what I understand of your comment regarding "elitists" are correct, then you appear to be referring to power-users, which are the more tech savvy minority.

I fall into the category of power-user, I'm more than able to find workarounds and solutions many can't on their own, I use my computer for all the less than 5% of the stuff any normal person would use it for, but I don't think of myself as a leader in the computer world if you know what I mean.

The best way to describe me is that I'm a minimalist that expects the basic things to work reliably. Like how a mechanic relies on his tools to continue operating his business, I expect no different from when I boot up my machine, connect to WiFi AP's, raise and lower speaker volume, search for information on the internet, and shut down when not in use.

The "average user" IMO is someone who checks email, Facebook, Twitter, plays games, shops for stuff on Ebay/Craigslist/Amazon, etc. and usually needs someone like a "power user" for support when they have issues.

Both OS X and Windows need to become more touch-screen friendly. That's where one segment of the market is headed. Buy why would you destroy tried and true desktop features? Is it not possible to have Save As and Versions on the same OS? There can't be a choice to either use the old smooth operating Spaces or the new clunky one?

Touch interfaces may be headed in that way but how is it that a desktop iMac or notebook Macbook user supposed to test touch-interface usability for example with Launchpad? Launchpad is IMHO Lion's most useless feature, it doesn't belong anywhere on any Mac. What works for tablet products doesn't necessarily work nearly as well on a traditional computer.

That's why Lion sucks.

For me, performing just a clean install of 10.7 created all sorts of issues without installing anything else. Battery life issues are a concern since my line of work doesn't guarantee that I can be tethered to an outlet. Stability issues with speaker control is very annoying and unreliable (despite me coming up with a decent workaround here). WiFi connectivity issues are annoying... the list goes on. The 10.7.1 update changes none of that.

I have workarounds that deals with most of what I just said, however I believe that if those are just some of the issues that I found with Lion, it really concerns me regarding what issues I haven't discovered yet, and my business can't afford to be walking on eggshells waiting for the next bug to show up when I least expect it.

I've said before that Lion sucks but to be completely objective on the matter I want to use Lion but I simply don't have the full confidence in the product just yet. Power users and businesses key on reliability more than anything.

So why does it suck? Well I believe Lion was "rushed" and didn't get the complete scrub down it needed in beta before it was released.

 

[2499723]

The only issue I have run into with Lion is that there is some kind of incompatibility with Office 2011 in the sense that my widgets act a bit funny if I'm running Word at the same time. If I click into or onto a widget in dashboard, it bounces me back to one of my open desktop spaces. It's a pain, but not an utter showstopper.

So, I for one love OS X Lion and find that my workflow has actually become much more efficient and intuitive. I swipe between desktops effortlessly and find the experience to be much better than the clunky approach of 'Control-Arrow'ing over to new spaces in SL. I would find it VERY difficult to revert to an earlier OS. I'm sorry the OP hated it so much. At least you can count yourself lucky that you received a refund. I certainly hope Apple doesn't drop some of its great functionality on account of you and others like you. =/