Apple Regains Market Share in Some Countries with Strong iPhone 5s Sales

[Mockenrue]

There is a lot of love for the Moto X/G in this thread... it's a great phone at a great price.

Apple fans might say, "if they are so good, why don't they sell?" It's hard to argue that point. Moto X and Moto G have not sold well at all compared to Apple and Samsung. It's a shame because I honestly think they would appeal to many iPhone fans, but they just don't have the marketing budget or visibility to get the notice they deserve.

I'm a case in point. My last three phones:
- iPhone 4: liked it a lot, but wanted a bigger (not just taller) screen when it was time to upgrade

- Samsung Galaxy S3: grew to hate it. Kind of relieved when the screen shattered.

- Moto X: Love it - my favorite phone yet.

 

[tongxinshe]

I understand the difference between the automotive market and the smartphone market.

I was just suggesting a new way to define the smartphone market.

I'm getting tired of the idea that Android is "winning" purely on volume... when no one talks about what that volume actually consists of.

Is two Android phones selling for $60 really twice as important as one $600 iPhone?

That's the way these numbers are interpreted. Volume is rewarded... no matter what it is.

No, two $160 Android phones cannot be as important as two $600 iPhones, in fact it may not be as important as just one $600 iPhone, but 200 million $160 Android phones DO carry very similar importance as 200 million $600 iPhones, since what developers needs most is a large user base.

When >85% of the whole market are all Androids and only <10% are iPhones, no matter how cheap most of the Androids are, a lost of users will switch to the Android platform even though they like iPhone very much, because they need to have easier communication (chat topics, information exchange, tricks learning, tech support, etc.) with their friends.

 

[BaldiMac]

When talking about market trends, you always need to look forward, and way ahead, because that’s really the only thing that matters. (side note: Not as a lot of people tries to emphasize all the time, that how much you’ve earned before or are earning at present, which is totally meaningless.) Those 18% will soon (in 1-2 years) be replaced by old cheap Android 4 (or even 4.2) phones. By that time, the only real problems caused by the fragmentation, bad app compatibility, will be almost gone.

Sure, minor incompatibility issues will always exist, like what was in the Windows world, but those minor issues will no longer prevent normal users and developers from regarding the Android platform as one whole platform.

Wow. Ignore what you can, rely on future claims to avoid the current reality, and dismiss the rest as "minor".

How about the 30%+ of "Android" phones in the fastest growing segment of the "Android" market that run a forked version of the AOSP?

Android’s dominance is not quite as rosy as it seems though, with most of the growth coming from forked Android operating systems (137% year-on-year), mainly in China, India, and adjacent markets. Forked Android or Android Open Source Project (AOSP) accounted for 25% market share with 71 million unit shipments, as opposed to certified Android’s share of 52%, of a total of 77% market share.
Read more at http://macdailynews.com/2014/01/30/...of-the-android-ecosystem/#mKW0a3hcXG34VvZ9.99

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since what developers needs most is a large user base.

No, what developers "need" most is revenue!

When >85% of the whole market are all Androids and only <10% are iPhones, no matter how cheap most of the Androids are, a lost of users will switch to the Android platform even though they like iPhone very much, because they need to have easier communication (chat topics, information exchange, tricks learning, tech support, etc.) with their friends.

Ahh.. so 80% isn't enough, but once Android gets to 85% - Watch out!

Of course, of that 85%, 35-40% will be running forked versions of the AOSP that won't help with the "easier communication (chat topics, information exchange, tricks learning, tech support, etc.) with their friends."

 

[ghost of jobs]

Okay, first the idea of the back button is GREAT, what I DO have a problem with; is that the implementation is different on every different device. so I cannot write instructions that say "Click the leftmost button under the screen" I have to write: "Click Back" (I can't even say "Back Button", because it's not a "button" on every device) Then I get 15 calls from users saying "where is the back button" and I have to say:

"I don't know.... Somewhere, usually looks like a left arrow or sometimes a u-turn like symbol, or sometimes something else. It's usually under the screen, it may be an actual button, or might be on the screen, near the bottom, or may be on a "pop-up" bar on the screen. or may be somewhere else."


On IOS devices If i need someone to click the home button, well that's easy "Only button on the face of the phone, round, below the screen"


So please explain to me where is this "Fluff"

Oh and while you are at it PLEASE do me a huge favor and give me a set of simple step-by-step instructions to add a Exchange activesync email profile for android. But it must be correct FOR EVERY ANDROID DEVICE! I'm too stupid to get one written.

I don't need one for IOS because I wrote a set of instructions complete with screenshots in about 10 minutes, and it works for EVERY IOS DEVICE

Please let me know.

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We are currently rolling out MDM from a little known company called CISCO, there Meraki product line, specifically.

On android, you NEED an app, so I can sent them a market:// link, unless they don't HAVE the Google play market. Yes, there are Android devices that have alternate markets.

Then, at least for the the Cisco product; the user needs to open the app and enter a network number, looks similar to a phone number; however we are dividing our users up into multiple "networks" depending on their business unit, so they would need the right number and to enter it correctly AND we don't want these network numbers "out there" with multiple people knowing them, because you cannot change them. The other option is to use Android Intents. So I can give them an intent URL link to automatically register them; but, once they install the app, they are STILL in the Play store; with a prompt to open the app; not to register, so they have to go back to their email and click another link. However I cannot give them any specific instructions on how to go back. some devices use a physical button some a soft button; etc; I cant even give them a reliable "ICON" to look for because different manufacturers use different icons. Then the "actions" menu is completely different on different devices, on specific example is; on the nexus models, you have to double click your intended action (go figure!)

On IOS, I literally send the users a FILE ( its a .mobileConfig file) in their email. they click the file and click "install" and DONE! the file contains all their setting AND their correct network number so I don't need to disseminate it! No app install needed, no app store, no Registration link. literally 2 steps.

Wow, fluff central.. 5 paragraphs of junk that 99.9% of the world have no use for just because you're trying to come across all techie to make up for the fact that the ios back situation is a *********** of tabs, gestures, swipes, buttons and God knows what else... But you've gone on record to praise it as superior to the droid hard button scenario.... And are now feeling a bit foolish because uve been called out on it.. Who are these 15 calls a day u are getting from asking about this mythical complicated back button that you figure out within 30 seconds of using any droid device... Two words.. B..S..
next I suppose you will be saying the browser back button is complicated next because they all look slightly differnt
Plus, just to divert matters you've brought the ios home button into the mix...erm.. why?. You're scrambling round in the dirt now kid. Let it go..

 

[BaldiMac]

Wow, fluff central.. 5 paragraphs of junk that 99.9% of the world have no use for just because you're trying to come across all techie to make up for the fact that the ios back situation is a *********** of tabs, gestures, swipes, buttons and God knows what else... But you've gone on record to praise it as superior to the droid hard button scenario.... And are now feeling a bit foolish because uve been called out on it.. Who are these 15 calls a day u are getting from asking about this mythical complicated back button that you figure out within 30 seconds of using any droid device... Two words.. B..S..
next I suppose you will be saying the browser back button is complicated next because they all look slightly differnt

You are making stuff up to argue with. He specifically said that he prefers the Android back button.

Personally, as an iOS user who supports a few Android devices, I find the Android back button inconsistent. But I'm sure it just involves some getting used to.

 

[Jvanleuvan]

I'm actually quite sympathetic with you, since we also have to support multiple Android device types. However, we figure it's stuff like this that keeps us employed as experts

Btw, we had something similar to your footer + keyboard problem, except that it was covering up a tall input field. So I told our guys to write a focus event handler and apply it to all the fields... which triggered a timeout (long enough to let the keyboard appear) to call another function that calculated if the field was visible above a certain percentage of the screen, and if not, to scroll it up to the top for best view. Umm.. I think they ended up using a resize event that got triggered on the devices with the funky keyboard instead of focus. Not sure.

Speaking of keyboards --- why the @#$% don't the iOS keyboard labels change case to match the shift key ?!!!! It's frustrating, not just to newbies to iOS devices, but often to oldtimers as well.

Regards.

I never noticed that the keys don't change on the IOS keyboard! ha, I can see how that could be confusing.

either way, with our company's new policy of "Personal device reimbursement"* we will soon have every device under the sun here so we just have to work through it.


*Company wont buy anyone a "company" phone, you bring your own phone for company use and the company will reimburse you a % of your cell phone bill

 

[ghost of jobs]

You are making stuff up to argue with. He specifically said that he prefers the Android back button.

Personally, as an iOS user who supports a few Android devices, I find the Android back button inconsistent. But I'm sure it just involves some getting used to.

And you sir are reading what you want to believe.. he specifically said, and went into great detail about why the Android back button sucks..

 

[Max(IT)]

By most accounts the Galaxy S line {excluding the Note} alone sells almost as many phones as Apple so the premium market for Samsung phones {the biggest Android vendor} is almost as large as Apple's, not to mention the multitude of other Android flagships.

Image

In fact recent data has shown that Samsung supposedly outsold Apple's launch weekend for the 5S with the S5 {at least in the US and Canada} >> Mind you I have difficulty believing this but the stories have been popping up in my RSS feeds recently.

Link: http://www.techtimes.com/articles/6...s-apple-iphone-5s-on-launch-weekend-sales.htm

And your source is an almost two years old ESTIMATED statistics of 70 days ?
Very interesting .... The iPhone 5s is not even counted and "incidentally" is the best selling iPhone ever ....

 

[BaldiMac]

And you sir are reading what you want to believe.. he specifically said, and went into great detail about why the Android back button sucks..

No, he didn't. He explained that differences in implementation make it difficult to provide specific instructions for a specific task. Seems hard to argue with.

 

[Max(IT)]

So you are doing all these steps for "dumb" users and not someone who has more technical knowledge and enthusiast? I thought we are talking about the latter . Anyway, I can give a long laundry list of what Android is capable of which Iphone can't do (even with jailbreak).

btw: our corporate MDM deployment is no more complicated - point to a Playstore link -> install the app-> app configure all necessary settings no prompts necessary (except user id/password).

Even to some typical buyers, iphone is just entry level specs (screen size/resolution, camera, other hardware) but with a luxury price. If these people have no affinity with Apple, it is just crazy to pay over-the-top price for having an Apple logo and aluminium can material.

Camera ? iPhone 5s camera is among the best
But you clearly are blinded by Samsung BS marketing where only mpixels are a factor.
Resolution ? iPhone's display is among the best display on the market, and its pixel density is above 300 PPI.
Hardware ? You clearly have no idea of what a SoC the A7 is ... And I think it will be useless to link the anandtech review, since you probably are not able to understand what it is saying ....
Do you think an overclocked chip like snapdragon 801 is comparable with A7 ? On a tech point of view they are on two different planets ...
And your joke about aluminium are another demonstration: Samsung could only dream of a similar good construction quality.

 

[kdarling]

I never noticed that the keys don't change on the IOS keyboard! ha, I can see how that could be confusing.

It reminds me of another old computer help desk story, about a user accidentally entering his password in upper case. So the help desk tells him to try again, using lower case keys --- to which he replies, "But there aren't any lower case keys on this keyboard!"

How about the 30%+ of "Android" phones in the fastest growing segment of the "Android" market that run a forked version of the AOSP?

Forked is not the right word. If it says "Android", then it's compatible.

What they really mean are Android phones that come without Google Services installed. (Although almost always there are ways to install them anyway.)

This is the segment that Nokia seems to be jumping into... making Android phones, but replacing Google services with Microsoft services.

 

[BaldiMac]

Forked is not the right word. If it says "Android", then it's compatible.

What they really mean are Android phones that come without Google Services installed. (Although almost always there are ways to install them anyway.)

This is the segment that Nokia seems to be jumping into... making Android phones, but replacing Google services with Microsoft services.

Forked is exactly the word I was looking for. The phones that don't say "Android" but are based on the AOSP. IDC and Gartner still count them as Android.

 

[numlock]

Again, I'm not talking about conditions and caveats.

what you mention below i would think is. i went through all the marketshare threads with macs and i dont recall anyone feeling the need to put an asterisk next to the marketshare.

Developer support, third-party integration, accessory support, profits, etc.

I agree with you that that's a silly argument. I have argued that forked versions of Android should not be counted as part of the Android platform.

thats a good point.

But you are okay with the arbitrary standard of what is a smartphone? Why not look at the overall moible phone market?

i know you are trying to prove a point but i thought most agreed and were reasonably happy with the featurephone and smartphone split. unless im mistaken this whole "high end" newish segment started with apple fans (hate that term as i like apple) as overall smartphone marketshare was decreasing and imo a sad byproduct of this is that suddenly devices in the $350 range are cheap and race to the bottom etc which i find arrogant.

Again, different contexts, different people, different arguments. Some people on this forum are absolutely hypocritical on both sides of this argument, but there is no need to dismiss an argument entirely because some people take it to irrational extremes.

this was a little off topic but i wanted to add it because apple themselves does mention that (phil schiller i think) and forums like these go berserk over fragmentation debates. in my mind you cant play both sides when it suits you.

 

[BaldiMac]

what you mention below i would think is. i went through all the marketshare threads with macs and i dont recall anyone feeling the need to put an asterisk next to the marketshare.

No need for an asterisk! Market share is what it is (subject to the variability of the system of estimates that we currently have. ) My point isn't that market share is a bad statistic, just that it needs the context of other metrics to answer the actual questions that some people claim are answered by market share alone. (i.e. How is the iPhone doing?)

i know you are trying to prove a point but i thought most agreed and were reasonably happy with the featurephone and smartphone split.

Sure, as long as it fits the story we are trying to tell. But it's still an arbitrary split, no more significant than the "high end" split that you are against.

unless im mistaken this whole "high end" newish segment started with apple fans (hate that term as i like apple) as overall smartphone marketshare was decreasing and imo a sad byproduct of this is that suddenly devices in the $350 range are cheap and race to the bottom etc which i find arrogant.

Arrogant? It's simply a different perspective. Some people look at the smartphone market and are interested by the fact that Apple is succeeding despite shrinking market share. Rather than simply assuming that the world is just crazy, some of us decide to look at a different subset of the market (high end phones, rather than smartphones) in order to gain an understanding of Apple's success.

this was a little off topic but i wanted to add it because apple themselves does mention that (phil schiller i think) and forums like these go berserk over fragmentation debates. in my mind you cant play both sides when it suits you.

I have no idea how Apple mentioning Android fragmentation involves playing both sides. Fragmentation is a bigger issue for Android than for iOS. Seems like an advantage that Apple should highlight.

 

[kdarling]

Forked is exactly the word I was looking for. The phones that don't say "Android" but are based on the AOSP. IDC and Gartner still count them as Android.

We've been over this before, I think.

If it doesn't say Android, then it's not counted as Android by IDC, Gartner, or Strategy Analytics.

At the most, it would show up in the Other OS category.

 

[BaldiMac]

We've been over this before, I think.

If it doesn't say Android, then it's not counted as Android by IDC, Gartner, or Strategy Analytics.

At the most, it would show up in the Other OS category.

That's not true. Per the article I cited earlier. Over 30% of what IDC, etc. count as Android are not certified Android.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Again, I find that to be cynical. Both on the level of being bothered that Apple marketing would choose metrics that put them in a good light and on the idea that it is contradictory for Apple to highlight market share growth but dismiss market share loss as less significant. As Michael Scrip pointed out (in a point that he stole from me ), Apple still enjoys all the benefits of being the market share leader, making market share less significant for its competitors than for itself.

Actually... I stole that quote from Macrumors user CEmajr a year ago

 

[kdarling]

That's not true. Per the article I cited earlier. Over 30% of what IDC, etc. count as Android are not certified Android.

Nope.

If you trace back the source articles, you'll find that they simply meant Android phones without Google Services.

Clueless reporters then tacked on the forked and uncertified tags all on their own.

 

[Michael Scrip]

No, two $160 Android phones cannot be as important as two $600 iPhones, in fact it may not be as important as just one $600 iPhone, but 200 million $160 Android phones DO carry very similar importance as 200 million $600 iPhones, since what developers needs most is a large user base.

When >85% of the whole market are all Androids and only <10% are iPhones, no matter how cheap most of the Androids are, a lost of users will switch to the Android platform even though they like iPhone very much, because they need to have easier communication (chat topics, information exchange, tricks learning, tech support, etc.) with their friends.

I'm not seeing that.

Just because 8 out of 10 smartphones sold today happen to be running a version of Android... that doesn't mean there is any less attention on the iPhone.

Developers need a large user base? Then why on Earth does anyone make iPhone-exclusive apps?

It's because the iPhone gets results. It's a proven platform.

Don't get caught up in Android's large number theory.

The iPhone may have a smaller user base... but that user base has proven to be very important.

 

[BaldiMac]

Nope.

If you trace back the source articles, you'll find that they simply meant Android phones without Google Services.

Clueless reporters then tacked on the forked and uncertified tags all on their own.

Where do you see any evidence that these devices are certified Android?

Further, if your statement was true, why does IDC count Kindle Fire as Android in their tablet numbers?

 

[Michael Scrip]

Well if you look at figure released for Q1 2014, Apple lost 2.4% and Samsung 1.2% overall share which is the gain of Chinese manufacturers and LG with lenovo gaining 1% share and rest holding on to their market share. Don't underestimate these Chinese manufacturers.

But again... market share is a percentage based on the size of the entire market over a 3 month period.

Apple could "lose" market share... but actually sell more units than they every have before.

Year-over-year... Apple is selling more iPhones... and that's exactly what they want.

I don't think they're concerned with what percentage they happen to be at any given time.

Talking about profit share. It used to be 90% for Apple but now it is down to 55-60%. Larger market share drop compared to others and continuing drop in profit share, isn't this like a double whammy?

FEBRUARY 12, 2014
Tavis McCourt, an analyst for Raymond James, estimates that Apple claimed 87.4 percent of phone earnings in the fourth quarter, while Samsung took in 32.2 percent of industry profits. (The numbers add up to more than 100 percent because Apple and Samsung combined made more money than other competitors lost.)

Your numbers look a little off.

But anyway... Apple's profit share may go up or down. But it is still a positive number.

You didn't even address what I said about the 30-40 companies making ZERO dollars in the Android smartphone market.

 

[ghost of jobs]

The iPhone may have a smaller user base... but that user base has proven to be very important.

Of course, because we all know that the 50 million units sold last quarter were all to bankers, lawyers, politicians.. super rich, super important and Influential folk... Cos the normal man on the street , aka the pauper android user can't afford the 27 pounds sterling a month needed to. Buy a new iPhone..

 

[numlock]

No need for an asterisk! Market share is what it is (subject to the variability of the system of estimates that we currently have. ) My point isn't that market share is a bad statistic, just that it needs the context of other metrics to answer the actual questions that some people claim are answered by market share alone. (i.e. How is the iPhone doing?)

there is a difference between context and creating something to fit your agenda.

Sure, as long as it fits the story we are trying to tell. But it's still an arbitrary split, no more significant than the "high end" split that you are against.

are you seriously trying to argue that the definition between a featurephone and a smartphone is just as arbitrary as deciding on a magical dollar figure to split the market? why not go even further in your point and argue for fax devices and landline phones? btw unless im mistaken i only recall people on boards using this high end sector in their data analysis. the one between featurephones and smartphones seems to be accepted by all ie not just to suit one persons/companys agenda. as for the story that story seems to be ever changing as i said nobody was making this point in the first few years or the iphone.

Arrogant? It's simply a different perspective. Some people look at the smartphone market and are interested by the fact that Apple is succeeding despite shrinking market share. Rather than simply assuming that the world is just crazy, some of us decide to look at a different subset of the market (high end phones, rather than smartphones) in order to gain an understanding of Apple's success.

yes. its calling devices cheap and low end just because they are slightly below what the cheapest iphone costs ie not $50 dollar devices but ones in the few hundred dollar range. you see it threads regarding the 5c where its price is reasoned by the fact that apple dosent do cheap or low end whereas there is a world of difference between the 5c price and cheap and low end. again its only to suit one agenda and started after android grew and grew.

I have no idea how Apple mentioning Android fragmentation involves playing both sides. Fragmentation is a bigger issue for Android than for iOS. Seems like an advantage that Apple should highlight.

here i went a little off topic and seem to have assumed apple said something i cant find. if i do i will get back to you but however people on this board have made the point which in short is claiming ios cant be compared to android because there are more manufacturers and devices while then in the next thread go ape over the defragmentation with android.

 

[tdale]

Dropping market share in an expanding market maybe is not too much to worry about. But someday, smartphone market will be saturated and that day is coming soon. You may say if Apple maintain selling 150-200mil phones a year it is blue sky all the way. But what if a global recession/financial crisis occurs and market volume drops say 10-15%. Logic tells us Apple would take the greatest hit as it only sells high price phone. If just 5% (of the 10-15%) of the decline is attributed to Apple, we are talking something like 50-mil (assuming smartphone volume is close to 1billion) decline which would be like 20% decline for Apple. If the slowdown continues for a few more years...you do the maths. Also not forgetting China manufacturers are coming out with lots of phone with hugely better specs than Iphone at only 1/2 the price.

Apple used to make more money on smartphones than everyone else combined, I am sure that is still the case. If there is a crash or saturation, the profit may drop but the profit gap would widen further

 

[KillerTree]

This is a great example of not understanding at all what most consumers value. It is not specs and performance, but value and experience.

The largest mobile phone-using demographic doesn't have a clue about specs and performance, they care about the look and quality of the hardware and the apps that are available (and the rest of the ecosystem). As long as Apple focuses on these things they will remain the biggest single performing force in the mobile space.

The Moto G lacks value and experience? News to me!