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hexx said:
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I hope they cone down on Apple like they did with MS.


on what basis? that they want 30% margin? good luck with that

On the basis that they may be acting in an anti-competitive manner. Perhaps I should qualify that I hope they come down hard if they are found liable to teach them a lesson as Apple seem to have been on a slippery slope recently.
 

:confused: That's quite a technicality to muddle the water. The bottomline is as a developer Apple still offers to host your app content and music and video if you opt to do so. Whether you use IAP as an extra means to monetize is rather irrelevant to whether there should be a cut since the IAP is clearly not meant to be a parallel distribution channel for other retailers to feed partially into the system. That is analogous to CostCo having an obligation to give free shelf space to Walmart if Walmart delivers the goods with their own trucks.

Netflix and Hulu and Amazon and Readability in this case are still the same middlemen that offer a parallel service and a parallel cut on top of Apple, which makes little difference if not harm to consumers and actual developers. It doesn't make sense to categorize them as developers. Perhaps Netflix and Hulu can make their own devices in the future and what not to be more competitive in selling contents, as Amazon has already done, but people saying they prefer to have the old middlemen make more profit off them through Apple sounds like a case of stockholm syndrome to me.
 
What confounds me about this new policy is how much it completely goes against Apple's typical strategy. The very purpose of the App store was to make it easy for developers and content providers to supply services or apps for the iphone, making it more useful and thus selling more iPhones. Apple doesn't get rich off taking 30% from apps. They get rich selling iPhones at $600 a pop. Apple didn't create iTunes to get rich off selling music. Apple created iTunes so the iPod would have a source of easily accessible content, thus selling more iPods. Apple trying to squeeze 30% off subscriptions is only going to hurt the content available and thus iPhone sales in the long run. Simply put, the less content available for the iPhone, the fewer iPhones they will sell. If companies like Netflix and Amazon start pulling content because of these new policies, Apple will have shot itself in the foot bigtime.
 
This is MacRumours and shouldn't this really be page 2 material come on!

Slow news day riding wave of new MacBook Pro's anticipations?

I think they should get rid of Page 2 so people will stop complaining about which section of the site stories go on.

Actually, nevermind. People will never stop complaining.
 
if that is how you entire argument I could easily say this.

"Blah Blah Blah" you are a blind Apple Fanboy who can not see the problem with this.
That is your argument against me saying I think Apple is evil. It is the same level of though.

Far from Blind, but yes an Apple "fan boy".

But why sit here playing arm chair lawyer, or start tossing out wild conclusions when the issue is NOT with the consumer, it's between Apple and their developers. They will battle it out and Apple will adjust to meet the market needs.

Sorry.... just because Apple is trying to make money from their Eco system, does not make them evil.

Go buy an Android device... Google does that just out of the goodness of their heart you know. :rolleyes:
 
Thank you for a moment of sanity. This is the bigger question that no one else is asking: why in the hell would anyone pay $5 a month to use Readability?

Readability can be used for free in many other apps and in many browsers. Why on earth would anyone pay a monthly fee for that? OK, I can see a scenario where people would pay a one-time fee to buy a Readability app, just like any other app. But someone over at Readability obviously saw huge $$ in his eyes in creating a subscription service for something that is already free and at best should be a one-time app purchase. If they want to blame Apple for sandbagging their lame-ass "service" then I say thank you Apple.

i'm not arguing here just trying to understand...

when services like readability remove the adds, is it correct to assume the concent provider/publisher is no longer receiving that income? so we as readers who use these apps are taking money away from them? I don't know how it works.

So if readability claims to give 70% to the publishers... they are providing a service that pleases consumers "eyes" but also provides some revenue to the publishers?

If that is correct (which i have no idea if it is or isn't) it would make sense to allow a customer to have the option to subscribe to something like that.

As for content not changing... isn't there always new content on the internet? but either way you're paying for the service not the content...

It's not a service I would use but I don't see how they're a total bad guy here. Wouldn't we be the bad guy for using a free service that did the same thing and took away publishers income? If I'm wrong and that's not how it works, just ignore me :)
 
A few comments:

1 - Your parent's anniversary is coming up. Being the classy lad that you are, you decide to get them gift cards to Olive Garden and Red Lobster (oooh, fancy). You can either go to each store individually, initiate a new purchase / credit card transaction, deal with the hassle of driving, etc. Or you can go to WalMart, while you're already shopping there, and pick up the gift cards at the counter. Wal-Mart isn't doing anything for the restaurants, right? So they shouldn't receive any cut, right?

Of course not. Because that's not how business works. If you're displaying in my store, I'm going to take a cut.

2 - To the people saying "30% is too much! Publishers can't live with those rates!" It's very easy to get around this. Just get people to go to your site and sign up.

What's that you say?
People will do it in IAP because it's easier, and they already have their credit card details?
You mean, there's value to the customer in doing it from within the App?
It's more convenient for the user?

THAT'S what you're paying the 30% for.

If you think that there's not a TON of impulse buying that happens on the App Store and iOS store... well, I'm not sure what to tell you :)

There's a value associated with that. Just like batteries, candy bars, and magazines pay more to get into the check-out aisles at supermarkets. That "impulse-buy" exposure is a valuable commodity. Apple wants paid for that, too. (Just like every other store in existence).

Finally, having something like IAP (as well as 1-click buying on Amazon) makes people much more likely to spend money. When you're not entering your card details (or forking over cash), people have a tendency to not think of it as "real" money. It's the same reason casinos use chips. If you can have people forget that they're spending money, it's a lot easier to get it out of them. Click...boom... bought.

All of these things have value.
Plus, Apple's handling the credit card processing.
Plus, Apple's handling the customer details.
Plus, Apple's providing the customer support for billing disputes.
Plus, Apple's providing advertising in the form of App Store placement.
Plus, Apple's providing the content provider placement in an exclusive searchable listing of "approved" apps.

Every single one of these things can (and should!) be monetized.

We'll see what the market really bears. But I have a feeling it's going to turn out like the initial complaining on here about the 30% App Store sales. Non-developers were on here, yelling and screaming about how Apple was being so unfair. While the experienced developers were sitting back and licking their lips in anticipation of the money that would come rolling in. And it did come rolling in.

The difference, of course, is that in this instance, you DO have some experienced developers/agencies saying that the fee is too high. We'll see soon how it shakes out. I _still_ think that it might just be a case of a few squeaky wheels. But I'm not firm enough in that assumption to say I'd be surprised if a LOT of content providers start pulling out.

I'm honestly now sure where I fall on this -- I think Apple is definitely due a decent cut of IAP, and I think the requirement of having things available in IAP (and the price matching) are all good things for customers. Maybe the 30% is too high.

One last thought:
70% of 10 sales is equal to 100% of 7 sales. That means you need to sell 43% more product to make up the different. Do I think the convenience of IAP makes it likely that a developer will see that 43% increase in sales quantity? I do, absolutely. And that makes the 30%-- no matter how much of a bitter pill to swallow it is-- a worthwhile inverstment.
 
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On the basis that they may be acting in an anti-competitive manner.

I'm not defending Apple here, but didn't they just specify the terms so that if devs offer subscriptions outside of the app store, they must also make it possible to buy the subscriptions inside the store (so that Apple can get the 30 %). So readability could continue to sell subscriptions outside the app store as long as they also offer them inside?
 
I guess Apple didn't learn from Microsoft's mistakes.

Yeah, I mean how does Apple think they can get away with threatening Microsoft to remove the new Zune and Windows Phone 7 syncing app or Apple will end iTunes support on Windows.

Oh wait, I filled in that ad lib wrong. Replace those words with Microsoft, Apple, Quicktime for Windows, Microsoft, and Microsoft Office, respectively.
 
What confounds me about this new policy is how much it completely goes against Apple's typical strategy. The very purpose of the App store was to make it easy for developers and content providers to supply services or apps for the iphone, making it more useful and thus selling more iPhones. Apple doesn't get rich off taking 30% from apps. They get rich selling iPhones at $600 a pop. Apple didn't create iTunes to get rich off selling music. Apple created iTunes so the iPod would have a source of easily accessible content, thus selling more iPods. Apple trying to squeeze 30% off subscriptions is only going to hurt the content available and thus iPhone sales in the long run. Simply put, the less content available for the iPhone, the fewer iPhones they will sell. If companies like Netflix and Amazon start pulling content because of these new policies, Apple will have shot itself in the foot bigtime.

Exactly... so.... what do you think will happen if all these companies threaten to leave?

Right... Apple will change the policy. They're not stupid.
 
No way does Netflix or Comcast have 30% margin on their services to give to Apple and still remain profitable.

there's one important thing to remember though - 30% is only charged for new subscriptions or if you like if a subscription is bought via in-app purchase.

existing customers will just carry on paying their monthly(whatever) subscriptions and apple will get nothing.

so it's fair in my opinion
 
This new policy is absolutely absurd. Proof of that is most evident here on MacRumors where even the most dedicated fanboys (myself included) don't support it. What is Apple thinking? It's ruining their already poor reputation among fellow companies and developers, something that they inexplicably seem not to care about.

+1

This is starting to get ridiculous. I can see it leading to the creation of an independent app store that works with jail broken iOSes. App and service providers would flock to it.

Apple, get your act together and stop being so darn greedy.
 
70% of 10 sales is equal to 100% of 7 sales. That means you need to sell 43% more product to make up the different. Do I think the convenience of IAP makes it likely that a developer will see that 43% increase in sales quantity? I do, absolutely. And that makes the 30%-- no matter how much of a bitter pill to swallow it is-- a worthwhile inverstment.

Do you really think that Amazon, Netflix, Hulu or Spotify will sell 43% more since July 1? Really?

And if margins are below 30%, which represents 43% more sales?
 
Yeah, I mean how does Apple think they can get away with threatening Microsoft to remove the new Zune and Windows Phone 7 syncing app or Apple will end iTunes support on Windows.

Oh wait, I filled in that ad lib wrong. Replace those words with Microsoft, Apple, Quicktime for Windows, Microsoft, and Microsoft Office, respectively.

Heh, well if Apple removed Quicktime for Windows, nobody would cry. I mean, while using Windows I never used Quicktime.

And exactly why should Microsoft be forced to develop Office for Mac?
 
I can't wait for Apple to demand that Comcast give them 30% of my monthly cable subscription fee when I install the Xfinity App on my iPhone :D

That's exactly the problem. Even if Android or MS don't pay Comcast (or Netflix) to only have Xfinity on their platform, Apple is forcing them out. So now you need an android tablet on the side to watch TV and movies...

While I'd be willing to pay a 30% premium to get Netflix on an iPad ($20/mo + apple cut = $26/mo), I doubt most companies will do business this way. It'd be better if they just passed the surcharge directly onto the user, like a dialog pops up and says, "Apple will charge you $6/month to use this non Apple service on your Apple hardware. Do you agree?"
 
Ridiculous Policy Apple

I am an Apple Fanboy since 1984, but this policy is ABSURD!

Please don´t Apple be the company it was in 1992-1997, I´ve been there once already and once is enough form me. Or at least say something about why you´re putting this policy in place.
 
Do you really think that Amazon, Netflix, Hulu or Spotify will sell 43% more since July 1? Really?

And if margins are below 30%, which represents 43% more sales?

Not sure what the July 1 part is. But yes, without a doubt, in my mind, if they offer In-App, one click purchasing for Kindle Books, Spotify subscriptions, etc... they'll sell more of them.

Not sure what the second sentence meant :)
 
Far from Blind, but yes an Apple "fan boy".

But why sit here playing arm chair lawyer, or start tossing out wild conclusions when the issue is NOT with the consumer, it's between Apple and their developers. They will battle it out and Apple will adjust to meet the market needs.

Sorry.... just because Apple is trying to make money from their Eco system, does not make them evil.

Go buy an Android device... Google does that just out of the goodness of their heart you know. :rolleyes:

Ok, care to explain how they will make British Government pay them 30% of subscriptions for BBC that the British citizens pay? Or will they ban BBC app? Or will they make an exception in this case?
 
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Amazon changed to response to iBooks not to deal with Apple taking yet another cut.

But lets get off the Amazon example and lets look at things like Netflex or Pandora. Both of which P&O is in the 10% or less range. How are they to make or even stay in business if Apple is taking a larger cut of the Revenue han their P&O are.
That P&O includes things like credit card processing. That is all part of Netflex and Pandroa overhead.

If anything this is more proof Apple is to chicken to really go head to head with any one. Apple plays dirty.

The publishers or businesses that can't comply with the new rules have to find another business model or hope that Apple changes it. Complaining on there blog surely won't help their case against Apple.
 
Because they can make more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, and the backlash isn't that bad (so far).

It's one thing for XBOX/PS3/Nintendo to have this type of closed system..but the iOS devices are COMPUTERS. Users should be able to do whatever the heck they want with them.

I wonder if Google is going to lock down the Amazon App Store or the PlayStation App Store?

I don't fault Apple for the corporate Greed (everyone does it), but it's up to us (the consumer / developers ) to call them out for it. If enough people pull their apps, or buy into other ecosystems they will do a 180.

The XBOX and PS3 have a lot more in common with a computer than my phone.....

It is interesting 30% is fine for content creators, but people redistributing content are getting hammered. Although there is a chance that being a content middle man for a monthly fee was not a great model to begin with..

Ok, care to explain how they will make British Government pay them 30% of subscriptions for BBC that the British citizens pay? Or will they ban BBC app? Or will they make an exception in this case?

Well since that is paid as a tax, no one would actually use the in-app purchase if it were offered. In-app purchase has to be offered for the same price as out of app purchase.

The fact that the out of app purchase is mandatory is interesting, but hardly relevant.

If I were you I would be more upset over paying for benny hill re-runs to be broadcast 24/7...:D
 
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Hope Springs

My only hope is that we continue to get useful apps, despite all the barking, see above.

I also hope that we do not lose useful apps. Once go get used to something like Kindle on iPad it would be hard to lose it.
 
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On the basis that they may be acting in an anti-competitive manner. Perhaps I should qualify that I hope they come down hard if they are found liable to teach them a lesson as Apple seem to have been on a slippery slope recently.

I can't see that one happen. it's not anti-competitive manner. you have choice not to offer your subscription to your content on iDevices.

you can offer your content on Android or WinMo.

When I worked in retail we've set rules for retailers, they either agreed to our terms or they decided to sell someone else's goods.

there's nothing anti-competitive in this move and these term apply only to new subscriptions no existing ones.
 
30% Cut

WTF?

I love Apple for what they have been and what they are. But I'm missing something I guess. Why the hell do you need the 30% cut?

If you really need that, just let people install apps on their own and then if they utilize your service, charge them that ridiculous 30% cut.

This is getting beyond limits. Don't be a bitch.

I can't believe the limited mentality of so many people that comment. Most must still be in the 2nd grade. Why should Apple be expected to publish and distribute materials for free.

I worked for a large printer for many years. The cost for the printing and distribution of the publishers magazine was well over half their total costs. and now since they aren't using a printer, Apple should manage and distribute their publications for nothing? If they would try to do it on their own, it would cost far more than 30%, and they know it. That's why they went to Apple to do it for them in the first place. If they don't like Apple taking 30%, they are free to distribute it themselves. It's called Free-Enterprise.

Walmart takes at least a 50% cut on everything they sell. Jewlers take an 80% cut. Furniture stores take an 85% cut. Apples 30% is far lower than most any other distributor out there.
 
A few comments:

1 - Your parent's anniversary is coming up. Being the classy lad that you are, you decide to get them gift cards to Olive Garden and Red Lobster (oooh, fancy). You can either go to each store individually, initiate a new purchase / credit card transaction, deal with the hassle of driving, etc. Or you can go to WalMart, while you're already shopping there, and pick up the gift cards at the counter. Wal-Mart isn't doing anything for the restaurants, right? So they shouldn't receive any cut, right?

[snipped for length]

One last thought:
70% of 10 sales is equal to 100% of 7 sales. That means you need to sell 43% more product to make up the different. Do I think the convenience of IAP makes it likely that a developer will see that 43% increase in sales quantity? I do, absolutely. And that makes the 30%-- no matter how much of a bitter pill to swallow it is-- a worthwhile inverstment.
GREAT post. This is exactly how things work in the real business world and I'm also not sure how I feel about it coming to a mainstream internet app store. People who think this is outrageous have absolutely no idea how retail works.
 
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