Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
It's been said before, but it needs to be said again - Apple need to do a better job of managing the dialog with developers and consumers, specifically with regards to things like the App Store. I'm happy for them to lock down payment gateways if they provide a reasonable justification beyond "because we say so". That argument is only going to work for as long as the Android app environment takes to coalesce into something developers can get serious about.

By all means keep your research, development and product releases secret until you're ready to talk about them. But this sort of stuff doesn't need the usual Apple approach, and in fact could probably do with a bit of the exact opposite.
 
Monopoly rules in the US are not clear which is why so many of these debates go on. It's really up to the investigators to decide. Is Apple a monopoly with the App Store or not? Is the Android marketplace a big enough competitor? Those are some of the questions the investigators will be asking.

As it has been pointed out TIME AND TIME again. AntiTrust does not require a monopoly. Just enough power to really harm the Consumer.

EU consumer protection is a hell of a lot stronger than the US. The fact that it has a good chance of being nailed in the US pretty much locks it in that it will be nailed in the EU for Anti Trust.
 
Why exactly is apple pushing developers away? It's not like they need more cash.
 
Actually, they offer infrastructure to stream/store the content and manage access to these infrastructures. They don't just "take a cut".

That just proves my point. They sell contents by hosting a store to sell them. Apple sells contents by hosting a store to sell them, in addition to designing and making the devices that send them to people's hands. The former now act as though they have a birthright to also profit from Apple.
 
actually they provide distribution, billing, hosting, bandwidth, customer base. They are doing all the work of getting the content to the consumer and apple wants 30% of it because it's displayed on an apple branded screen.

with the app store apple is doing the distribution, billing, hosting, bandwidth, customer base for the developer, which is why they can ask 30% there and everyone was happy with it.

Your getting lost in the distinction between in-app and in-store.
 
Once again it is the extra greedy middleman who is getting upset here. Sorry no sympathy for them... Yes Apple's system will end a lot of relationships with middlemen, because they are no longer required. So they either take less money or they go out of business. I don't have a problem with it.

Middlemen.. really? So you want to live in the world where the ONLY middle-man is Apple? And your only way to get content is via iTunes Store... NetFlix / Hulu / Kindle / Rhapsody / etc be damned??

You have fun with that.. The moment Apple successfully drives out the key developers / providers that have thus far made iOS ecosystem so rich, diverse and fun.. That day would be the death of iOS ecosystem.. Your benevolent dictator Jobs might be careful what he wishes for.
 
What infrastructure is Apple maintaining for Hulu, Netflix, or Pandora? The app download? Wouldn't you say Apple is forcing this on themselves and everyone else by insisting on being the only store?

Apple is only providing payment processing for IAP. This is about IAP only.

IAP does not provide bandwidth or hosting. And if you already have a payment processor, IAP provides you exactly nothing.

That just proves my point. They sell contents by hosting a store to sell them. Apple sells contents by hosting a store to sell them, in addition to designing and making the devices that send them to people's hands. The former now act as though they have a birthright to also profit from Apple.

Apple offers no hosting of content for IAP. As a developer, you must provide the content on your own infrastructure once you get notification of a payment through IAP.

Again, this is very different from the App Store and IAP has nothing to do with the actual App Store.
 
If they could get away with that then every single app in the app store would be free but come with hidden subscription fee :rolleyes:

I agree, everybody is so gung-ho to bash apple they are forgetting that readability really DOESNT have a good arguement here. They say they want our money to support other writers, but Im sure thats just a marketting ploy. Id be surprised if more than 25% of the money they receive really went to other writers. Then how do they decide who deserves the money? How is it distributed? I write sometimes where can I get my chunk? Even if they really did donate 100% of revenues to starving writers why cant the developers just charge for the software and donate from those revenues?

Apple has its reasons for its policies. If nobody noticed yet Apple is trying to keep the entire app store uniform, in fact developers are lucky Apple even allows subscription services outside the app store. Finally that 30% cut Apple takes is actually quite modest considering all the hassle Apple is saving developers. Im getting more annoyed with people constantly bickering about Apples choices, how would you like it if steve jobs followed you around constantly criticizing your daily actions?
 
Yeah it's a novel concept that Apple should get paid for selling subscriptions for publishers. :rolleyes:

In some ways Apple is at fault here. They did create a culture of free software, free updates(for the most part) and many other "included with the Hardware Purchase" over the past 10 years.

Every publisher who wants to be on the train will be so in 6m. The Feds won't do a thing, and to be honest who give a s*** about the EU. Asia is the future.

Apple will have over 60 Billion in cash by the 4th Q. They will sell 40 million iPads in 2011.

You people need to deal with the new world. Equity,and fairness are long gone.

No laws have been broken. Bruce has seen to that. Make NO mistake. It's simply whiney people who have neither the dedication or drive to compete with Apple.

Move on. :apple:
 
Apple offers no hosting of content for IAP. As a developer, you must provide the content on your own infrastructure once you get notification of a payment through IAP.

Apple offers to host the apps and the music and the video directly if you are selling through them. Netflix and Amazon and Hulu are not "developers". They are retailers.
 
I don't think anyone argues Apple should and has a right to profit off the app store. But in their sales pitch of IOS devices, right smack in their television ads, were "free" apps. Some of those apps they teased the buying public with are now the very apps they are alienating.

This particular app circumvents ads by still giving money to the content creators to keep them alive. Ad revenue pays for the sites you read, just like this one. If everyone blocked the ads on Mac Rumors and it's sister sites, they most likely wouldn't be free or here at all. This is far different from a subscription music service or Netflix.

Someone mentioned the poor showing of the Verizon iPhone launch. While I think the majority of people didn't want to buy a device near it's end of life, there was lots of discussion of forums from people who cited Apple's latest escapades as a reason. It does give merit that the public isn't happy and people are concerned they'd have to give up content they currently use for an iPhone. Someone who has invested heavily in Kindle books might be nervous. I still wonder if removing purchase options from the app would circumvent Apple. If you're a kindle user, you'll just go to Amazon.com anyway. It's actually easier to browse books on the full web than in the app unless you know what you want. Browsing iBooks is dreadful. And the selection is poor.

I still say this: Apple needs to grow a pair and say, "As our business model has evolved and changed, we now are in direct compeition with some of our partners. As a result, we will no longer host apps that compete with existing business such as books or music. We wish these partners well." Instead of blackmailing them out of the app store. I think that is more the issue than wanting paid.


Right now the App Store pays for its own existence through that 30% cut. What Apple is doing here is trying to prevent a loophole as Atheistpaladin points out. Companies monetizing Apple's distribution platform without sharing some of the cost of distribution.

That isn't to say this isn't a bad move. But it points out the problems of a one-size-fits-all distribution method for applications and services.

@Originally Posted by fishmoose
"Yeah it's a novel concept that Apple should get paid for selling subscriptions for publishers."
''
Yes and no. Apple wants the content to make their devices an attractive purchase. A content device is not good without content and magazines, books, newspapers, video, etc. are the bread and butter content that makes tablets more enticing. Otherwise an iPod touch would be just fine. That content will sell iPads, where they make their real money. If 500 magazines are available on Android because the publisher only pays a reasonable 10% fee, and 20 are left on the iPad, might make you rethink which device you buy. 10% is a generous cut for that type of product. It's more than brick and mortar stores make selling magazines (which is 5% or less in most cases). This is where you can't have 1 size fits all. Most people don't realize how the retail end works. Brick and mortar stores make no money off newspapers, its a convenience for your customer. What they spend for an employee to dust the newspaper rack once a week is more than what they make in a month selling the newspaper. Most stores discount magazines which wipes the penny profit to a true penny profit. It's a convenience. And magazine and newspaper publishers have been in financial trouble for a decade. Just like a newspaper brings a customer to a convenience store when they don't need gas, it brings them to a tablet every day to read it if they subscribe. While they're there, they might drop a few bucks on something else. Considering most publications advertise things in the app store, it still will drive traffic back to apple at the end of the day. "Hey an article about that new Lady KaKa cd... ooh, if i touch her name it opens iTunes for me to buy it." This is also a very untested market. Who knows how many people will subscribe to digital magazines? The 40% and up profit on the iPad is far more than they'll ever make off the lifetime app purchases of the user in most cases. I was going to buy the iPad 2.... now I'm going for an android tablet. I refuse to invest further in IOS which already limits my content choices. (95% of the apps in the app store are crap, some literally like fart apps and bic lighter apps.)
 
Last edited:
Amazon changed to response to iBooks not to deal with Apple taking yet another cut.

But lets get off the Amazon example and lets look at things like Netflex or Pandora. Both of which P&O is in the 10% or less range. How are they to make or even stay in business if Apple is taking a larger cut of the Revenue han their P&O are.
That P&O includes things like credit card processing. That is all part of Netflex and Pandroa overhead.

If anything this is more proof Apple is to chicken to really go head to head with any one. Apple plays dirty.

Blah, blah Blah...

I know... you feel Apple is evil, but you make the point I just made a second ago, but you fail to even see it.

Amazon changed because of iBooks... Why? Competitive pressure. Guess what? So will evil Apple.

Electronic distribution is still in the infant stages of being defined. Many companies (including Apple) are going to try different things. Some will stick, and some won't.

I'm guessing this one won't. In general, Apple's concept is okay... but they do need to be more specific and lay off other area's. In the ideal, there shouldn't be a "requirement" to offer through iTunes, but just an advantage to do so and let the publishers and other companies join in because they want to. It's worked great for the App store... and I'm sure it would work well here too for those who want access to Apple's iOS customer base.

Period.

Give it time... this will all grow and change. Just enjoy the show and learn from a growing and changing industry.
 
Here is the problem

Lets call this problem Mister X


Mister X: Yo dog, I want my apps in your store because its so gooood!!!!

Apple: Thats 30% of your sales.

Mister X: No way I want it all!!!

Apple: So basically you just wanna use us to make yourself more money?

Mister X: Yes and if you don't do it I"ll keep on nagging and nagging and nagging until you find me so annoying and give me ALL!!!!

Apple: Keep on dreaming.....NEXT!
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)



The problem is that iPhone/iPad is a huge chunk if the app market (along with Google). Developers may not have a choice but to continue with Apple, either saying goodbye to some profit or passing it on to buyers.

This kind of pressure can be an abuse of Apple's position which is anti-competitive and may fall foul of EU/US law. It will be interesting to watch the investigations.

I think some of the most contentious issues are rules such as the one preventing apps providing links to websites for lower subscriptions.

I think the view that developers "owe" Apple is quite wrong, rather good quality apps are a major insentive for consumers to buy iOS devices in the first place.

I don't know, maybe i look at it from different POV - to me itunes store, app store and others are just digital versions of retail stores. And there's always retail margin to be paid by customer.

And as with resellers, if you do re-sell others products/content of course your margin is much thinner. If you do create product/content and sell it through a retail store cutting the middle man your profits are higher.
 
actually they provide distribution, billing, hosting, bandwidth, customer base. They are doing all the work of getting the content to the consumer and apple wants 30% of it because it's displayed on an apple branded screen.

They bring the customer to the device if the customer is unaware of the subscription service on the web. Whether or not that is worth 30% of the cost is up to the owner of the content.

In the case of Readability, it isn't because it is actually a redundant cost (Readability and Apple really are doing the same thing but with different methods). In the case of Netflix it very well could be worth it to get more customers to buy their streaming service (since not everyone knows Netflix isn't just a DVD rental company anymore).
 
Apple offers to host the apps and the music and the video directly if you are selling through them. Netflix and Amazon and Hulu are not "developers". They are retailers.

Read the IAP documentation. This is not the case (http://developer.apple.com/library/.../StoreKitGuide/Introduction/Introduction.html) :

Important: In App Purchase only collects payment. You must provide any additional functionality, including unlocking built-in features or downloading content from your own servers. This documentation details the technical requirements of adding a store to your application. For more information on the business requirements of using In App Purchase, see the App Store Resource Center. You must also read your licensing agreement for the definitive treatment of what you may sell and how you are required to provide those products in your application.
 
I hope all the major developers ie netflix, amazon, pandora, etc all ban together and pull their apps days before the ipad 2 release. I might even purposefully buy one just to return it complaining I can't watch netflix. so long as there are no restocking fees :p

and by saying that... i also hope by the developers all pulling their apps that apple will wisen up and make a change. I surely don't want those apps gone forever! unless I can get them in cydia, than all is well.
 
Apple very well may just be casting a wide net to gauge reaction from developers and from consumers. They're a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. I hope.
 
I just want to point out yet again that in the current competitive environment, Apple is selling phones BECAUSE of the apps in the app store. Apple is piggybacking off developers - NOT the other way around. If all developers dropped out of the app store, there would no longer be an iPhone.

Tony
 
How about just RSS?

Are you tired of viewing ads, newsletter opt-ins, etc? Well, you can have the functionality of Readability by simply using RSS feeds to keep up-to-date on the website(s) you are interested in. RSS is free, has been available for nearly a decade and you can find readers to aggregate (pull together) RSS feeds from multiple sources to have all your news in one place.

Of course, Apple's objection to Readability is most likely due to the feature of dropping-off of ads. Well, RSS does this by default (except for some "clever" content providers who include ads in RSS feeds).
 
As it has been pointed out TIME AND TIME again. AntiTrust does not require a monopoly. Just enough power to really harm the Consumer.

EU consumer protection is a hell of a lot stronger than the US. The fact that it has a good chance of being nailed in the US pretty much locks it in that it will be nailed in the EU for Anti Trust.

You care to backup those statements with evidence or are you going to fall back on the "everyone knows" line of reasoning and go from there?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.