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Wow thanks for that, I would never have known.

I should have added a disclaimer at the bottom of my post such as " at the time of writing and subject to the international time difference around the world my post might be slightly out of sync"

Or I could post with one iPad whilst using a second to constantly refresh MR just so I am fully up to date.

Not really added much too the debate has it!

:rolleyes:
 
Apple is starting to make those Samsung Android tablets look mighy appealing.

If Apple removes the Kindle app I'm selling my iPad, it's a b*llsh*t move on their part and definitley overreaching. It the equivalent of an Apple Tax.

If it troubles you that much why don't you buy a kindle.

I don't understand comments like yours, Amazon and Sony produce hardware to read their supplied content. Apple give you the opportunity to read that content on your iPad. Do they really have to let you buy it as well? It's not he same for netflix or zinio etc, they don't have a hardware-content business model. When Apple says it's going to clamp down a little people shout foul and i'm off to android. Why don't they just buy a kindle or Sony reader?
 
Thank you. There is hope yet. :apple:

I hope so! This and the parallel thread has gone interstellar. I'm with you, just wish apple had made their response much clearer.

Isn't it funny that Sony are bitching about being able to have an iOS app on iOS device. I thought they had their own reader and store :p if theirs is so good why would I need to read their stuff on my iPad! Answer because theirs is sh&t.
 
Not really added much too the debate has it!

:rolleyes:

Especially as its self contradictory or nonsensical or simply very poorly worded .

company spokesperson Trudy Muller told me. “We are now requiring that if an app offers customers the ability to purchase books outside of the app, that the same option is also available to customers from within the app with in-app purchase.”

Does she mean "if a COMPANY (not app) offers customers the ability ...." ?
Or that Apple are fine as long as the app doesn't send you to the browser, you have to work out to do that by yourself?
Or that if you consume any content via the app you must have the ability to purchase it via IAP?

Perhaps a spokesperson could clarify what the spokesperson was saying?
 
Terrible example.

Sony has its own eBook store.

BUT they also let you use eBooks from a wide variety of other competing stores on their devices (with DRM).

If the iBookstore was more open they might actually support it.

But not a store on the device.

And I think if you ask Amazon, they won't let you do it either.

And for a laugh, aow about asking Sony if you can set up your own gamestore on the PS3? (No profit sharing allowed)

They will tell you to do do something physically impossible.

Sony's open-ness on its reader was an accident that came about when it had the stupidity to create a reader, without actually providing any way of buying content.

C.
 
But not a store on the device.

And I think if you ask Amazon, they won't let you do it either.

It's simply due to the fact that neither (currently) offers a way for users to download Applications that are capable of doing this. If we get to the stage where these devices (like Kindle) can actually run Applications that would be capable of offering a store then you might have a point.

As it stands only a handful of devices support downloading a books anyway.

iOS devices are more than capable of running the necessary applications.

And for a laugh, aow about asking Sony if you can set up your own gamestore on the PS3? (No profit sharing allowed)

Again, I'd say this simply due to the fact that games consoles don't offer a way for developers to add an application capable of doing this rather than a business decision.

Sony's open-ness on its reader was an accident that came about when it had the stupidity to create a reader, without actually providing any way of buying content.

Why do they continue to add support for newer forms of books offered in DRM (after they launched their own store) if this is the case?
 
It's simply due to the fact that neither (currently) offers a way for users to download Applications that are capable of doing this. If we get to the stage where these devices (like Kindle) can actually run Applications that would be capable of offering a store then you might have a point.

As it stands only a handful of devices support downloading a books anyway.

iOS devices are more than capable of running the necessary applications.

The Kindle most certainly is capable of having an on-device store. Because it has the Amazon one.

And Amazon have been trying to encourage 3rd party developers to create apps for the Kindle. (Games and the like)

But obviously Amazon would never tolerate a 3rd party bookstore on the device - because they build the Kindle reader with the sole intention of selling Amazon e-books.

Again, I'd say this simply due to the fact that games consoles don't offer a way for developers to add an application capable of doing this rather than a business decision.

Of course they do. The PS3 and XBox both offer on-device stores that are exclusive to Sony and Microsoft. There's no technical reason why Steam or some other 3rd party game store could not run. The reason is commercial.
Sony's game division makes its entire revenue from charging for access to this platform. If you want to put content on it. You pay.

This is how electronics companies monetize their investment in building platforms.

Why do they continue to add support for newer forms of books offered in DRM (after they launched their own store) if this is the case?

I think Sony are not doing well in this space. They are resigned to making money on the hardware and not on the content.

C.
 
"Asking about the Sony Reader snafu yesterday. Eddy Cue: Don't want to talk about the announcement yet, but we'll talk about that soon. We want customers to be happy."
 
Ok -- maybe I'm slow so forgive my ignorance...

Apple, who are in the book-selling business too, created an amazing device that 15 million people own. They allow other booksellers to give away book readers on their app store and even pay for the bandwidth that this costs. And they're supposed to by happy for these competitor apps to just WOOSH away customers from the app and out to the internet to buy the book out-of-the-loop? To receive all of the money, and nothing to Apple? So Apple provided an audience of millions of potential buyers and they're not due compensation? Really? REALLY?

How can you crybabies really sit there and piss & moan about Apple being unfair? They simply want to give the customers the option of buying the book through the store, too. Those that love Amazon can choose the WOOSH-jump-thru-hoops method and those that simply just want to BUY the book they just found and do it In-App, can just hit the BUY button and get the book. Apple is due compensation. They have created the audience, the customer. They deserve their 30%.
 
Ok -- maybe I'm slow so forgive my ignorance...

Apple, who are in the book-selling business too, created an amazing device that 15 million people own. They allow other booksellers to give away book readers on their app store and even pay for the bandwidth that this costs. And they're supposed to by happy for these competitor apps to just WOOSH away customers from the app and out to the internet? They've provided an audience of millions of potential buyers and they're not due compensation?

How can you crybabies really sit there and piss & moan about Apple being unfair? They simply want to give the customers the option of buying the book through the store, too. Those that love Amazon can choose the WOOSH-jump-thru-hoops method and those that simply just want to BUY the book they just found and do it In-App, can just hit the BUY button and get the book. Apple is due compensation. They have created the audience, the customer. They deserve their 30%.

Apple also made the developers at Amazon buy Apple hardware for development purposes and pay $99 for the pleasure of developing an application that their approval team can reject on a whim without any regards for development costs to the developers.

Amazon also lend their strong Kindle brand and in turn customer base towards buying iOS powered hardware which has drawn in record sales and profits year on year for Apple at the expense of selling their own Kindle hardware.

They're already getting plenty out of the deal.
 
I hope so! This and the parallel thread has gone interstellar. I'm with you, just wish apple had made their response much clearer.

Isn't it funny that Sony are bitching about being able to have an iOS app on iOS device. I thought they had their own reader and store :p if theirs is so good why would I need to read their stuff on my iPad! Answer because theirs is sh&t.

Yup, as a child I would often associate with a peer group. Usually this would be in front of the small town store. The store happened to be at a sparsely traveled small town intersection.

We would engage in the activity of seeing who could push the largest peer off the curb. Sometimes this activity would be one vs one. Sometimes a grouping of peers would combine forces to dethrone the "Curb King" (sorry, this was a male only club in those days).

This type of pre-adolesent/adolescent behavior has been documented and used in many worldly activities, and quotes.

APPL is the "Curb King". Take your best shot. :apple:
 
Is it an expense? Or is it a saving? I doubt if there is any profit in the $100 reader.

C.

$100? I make it $139 (pedantic? ;)). I have no idea on the cost of manufacture of a Kindle to Amazon so I can't answer that.

What I will ask is are you suggesting Amazon are using eBook sales for owners of Apple hardware to supplement subsidized Kindle hardware sale? A very interesting prospect if so. I'd love to see what the costs are for Amazon regarding what the development/manufacture and sale of a Kindle is, does such data exist?
 
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$100? I make it $139 (pedantic? ;)). I have no idea on the cost of manufacture of a Kindle to Amazon so I can't answer that.

What I will ask is are you suggesting Amazon are using eBook sales for owners of Apple hardware to supplement subsidized Kindle hardware sale? A very interesting prospect if so. I'd love to see what the costs are for Amazon regarding what the development/manufacture and sale of a Kindle is, does such data exist?
Amazon are quite closed about the sales of the Kindle reader. I suspect there's a lot less profit in it, since the price came down.

The only question is, how much profit are Amazon making through the sales of eBooks on the iPad.

Guess a figure.

Amazon would not have that cash, were it not for the iPad.
So its reasonable for Apple to have a share of that.

30% of retail would not be a reasonable share.

C.
 
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It's reasonable for Microsoft to have a share of the books sold thorugh PC's?

After seeing Apple's success with the App Store (both iOS and Mac), you can bet they're trying to figure out a way.

Microsoft is never one to let a successful idea go unduplicated.
 
After seeing Apple's success with the App Store (both iOS and Mac), you can bet they're trying to figure out a way.

Microsoft is never one to let a successful idea go unduplicated.

I would say Apple did not leave the way in terms of Online stores. They stole and copies the idea from another company.
The company that proved something like an App store an work really well was Valve with Steam.
 
The PC - (and the Mac) are not curated.
The iPad (and the 360) are.

C.

So is "curated" your word for "RIP-OFF" or does it mean "controlled in a similar fashion of a Dictatorship or Communist government?" ;)

I'd say the latter. Like most things today where companies do everything in their power to rip-off the consumer (especially banks and the entire credit card industry), I guess we need specific laws passed to force companies to behave fairly and honestly rather than count on them to day the right thing when they don't know the meaning of the word.

The basic problem is that digital and networked media is becoming overwhelmingly powerful in scope and there is little to no regulation for this industry. Traditional media and brick and mortar outlets have rules governing their behavior and laws to cover many of their tactics (e.g. like bait and switch advertising). There needs to be laws to regulate and govern digital media distribution. I know bloggers would hate it, but the fact is that anyone can libel anyone on a blog site today with little or no oversight and similarly companies that are getting huge market shares of digital distribution hardware (e.g. like Apple and its iPad and iPod Touch and iPhone) have way too much say in who is allowed to distribute their media and/or software on their particular hardware platform. Some may cry fowl, but it is not ABC or CBS or even Fox who determine what companies can advertise on their networks within reasonable guidelines, but rather it is the advertisers that determine whether they want to be associated with a particular network or television program's message when they buy that ad block. In other words, broadcasters cannot arbitrarily discriminate against those wishing to distribute their ads on their network whereas Apple seems to think it can tell various developers to take a hike if they happen to produce competing software to something that Apple makes or if they don't give 1/3 their revenue to Apple to carry it. The former is anti-competition and should stink to high heaven to anyone that cares about fair and open competition and the latter is using a position of significant market share to demand outrageous fees (not dissimilar to the credit card and banking industry imposing ridiculous fees for everything under the sun to take advantage of their customers).

Just because something is legal, that doesn't make it ethical. Laws had to be passed to deal with the credit card industry (who is already working their butts off to find new and creative ways around those laws) and so I say they need to be passed for newer methods of media distribution. We've already seen some steps in this area (e.g. Net neutrality to deal with internet providers shifting profit their way while taking advantage of piracy's demand for ever greater bandwidth to avoid paying for traditional media distribution) while the pirates themselves often justify their actions because they feel they are being taken advantage of with high prices for non-traditional media (wherein you get nothing to resell, DRM and high prices comparable to hard media). Look at Napster's initial popularity because there was no reasonable way to buy only songs you liked at the time.

I know certain demographics despise regulation, but unfortunately without it, you end up with unscrupulous and often unfair and/or unreasonable behavior by all involved. Corporations have huge lobbying efforts to represent their rights in government, but consumers are pretty much overlooked these days with things like the DMCA being rammed down our collective throats to override previous "fair use" rulings and the like that somehow apparently are not covered with "digital" media despite the differences being arbitrary, especially where lossy digital media is involved. I don't see why we the consumers should have to put up with not being able to get a certain news service, magazine or movie just because one side or the other is making unreasonable demands for their particular platform. Why should Apple be able to say I cannot buy a particular digital newspaper for the iPad simply because that newspaper will not agree to Apple's demands? So then I have to go out and buy another piece of hardware to read that newspaper? That's ridiculous in so many ways.

Perhaps a law is needed to define what digital media like digital newspapers and magazines can be sold for (formula-wise) so that all hardware companies are on an even playing field and the consumer doesn't get screwed out of being able to buy something simply because Apple says that they cannot sell something on their device that doesn't cut them into 1/3 the revenue despite the fact that the service is run through the Internet on the device and isn't carried in their 'monopolized' (defined here as the only one officially available) App-store. It's bad enough they won't let various apps be sold on their store, but to say someone cannot use the Internet on the same device with their App to sell "around Apple" is ridiculous. That should be a consumer choice whether they buy something off the Internet with a browser or through Apple's store or not. Purposely limiting the device so software cannot be loaded into an App without Apple's permission is also going too far.

Where are the consumer rights to use the hardware they own in a way that they choose? What business of Apple's should it be to look at a document I want to store on my iPad before I can load it onto it (i.e. to make sure I'm not putting the New York Times on there myself that I bought using a traditional browser). Imagine if iTunes removed the "add to library" option and only let you put things on there by submitting it to Apple first and then only if it's tagged with an official iTunes store signature and therefore any non-iTunes sold media would not be allowed in iTunes on either your computer or your iPod/iPad/iPhone. I'm sure there are a lot of fanboys on here who would 100% OK with that. They'd tell the rest of us to go buy an Android or Microsoft product if we don't like being forced to buy 100% of our media through Apple (so Apple gets a huge cut no matter what) and too bad if Apple doesn't carry this artist or this movie studio or this magazine. I guess you could carry around maybe 5 or 6 iPad-like devices just to make sure you can read them all..... :eek:

After all, what other choice would you have if this is taken to that extreme? Just don't read those magazines or books? At what point is that discrimination then? What if Apple decided they didn't want to carry conservative themed books or magazines or newspapers and used this all as an excuse not to do it? You could argue they have the right to refuse media that is not aligned with their company's philsophy, but where is the consumer in all of this? I couldn't care less what Apple thinks; I want the media that I care about. Apple is just selling me a delivery vehicle, as far as I'm concerned. Imagine if Chevy tried to tell me where I could drive my car I bought from them. Sorry, but our car is programmed to not allow you to drive onto a Ford or Toyota parking lot (and the brakes lock up when you try to pull in there). :rolleyes:
 
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