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Do "file access" and "file system" imply that an end-user finder will be supplied? Specifically, with this sdk, could one write a document editor like for word or pages that could save docs that could then be e-mailed, saved elsewhere, etc.?
 
The only thing I don't like today is the fact that Apple is monopolizing the software distribution channel. And let me tell you, I don't like it at all.

Apple presumably will decide if an app is "good enough" to be included in the store. I worry that they may not see the value in certain applications that may have a lot of merit for certain individuals. How often can I update the app that I write? Do I pay $99 each time? Can I have them host a new release every two weeks? Can I have them host a beta for my customers?

Second, they've misjudged the situation with internal apps developed by companies. I've worked on software development teams for some pretty large companies like Bank of America that do tons of in house development. It simply won't fly for them to use the iTMS as a distribution mechanism. Not unless a private iTMS node can exist inside their corporate firewall. Large companies who spend millions of dollars on internal apps aren't going to then ship the apps across the Internet and have Apple control the distribution.

I really think we should have the option of hosting some sort of install archive on our own servers and someone just downloads it and installs it. The precedent Apple is setting could eventually lead to a similar approach to all software for Apple computers. If you want to write an application for OS X, Apple has to approve it, host it, and sell it. Some people may think this is great, but to me it sounds like any Apple product in the future is going to be completely subordinated to Steve Jobs.

So much for open source and their BSD roots. After making their billions by layering on top of these concepts, now they're just taking a big crap on it all.

I couldn't agree more. In the end I think you'll end up being able to just drag apps from your computer to the iphone. Companies who do a lot of internal software will not to want to ship it off to Apple. Then you open up the whole issue of controlling who can DL the software, etc...
 
... by these crappy bits -

a) Developer needs to pay $99 per Application to Apple to get it on the Apple store - WTF? If I am a free software developer why do I pay Apple to distribute my apps - Thanks, but no thanks, I can and will do it myself.

b) Apple takes 30% of the Application sales revenue and ostensibly calls it "for store upkeep" - wow, so if my App is worth 100$ and it sells 100 copies a day Apple will take out 3000$ per day to keep their store up and running. For what? Can't be bandwidth, can't be any other per download costs. So this just stinks of greed on Apple's part.

c) Even after paying Apple tax I have to put my App on iTunes store - no other choices. So this forces the Developers to use Macs to develop, and forces both Developer and User to use iTunes to distribute/consume.

So Apple is sucking the bucks from whatever they can without giving single sensible reason as to why and denying choices to the users and developers.

It just stinks of greed - nothing else can explain this seemingly cleverly designed "SDK business". Sorry Apple - you are no longer the company you were - Microsoft suddenly sounds lot better - they at least have good business sense of what will work and what will not.

If my post gets pulled so what, ARE YOU STUPID? You know nothing about good business for entrepreneurs. Apple has always charged a meezly $99 for the developer tools, big deal, if you are new developer offering free apps for the iPhone/Touch and want to get your name out there for future $$ sales then Apple will post your free apps on the App Store otherwise you will end up putting your crappy free apps on the web somewhere hoping someone will click on a link from Amazon that surfs them to your page which is generally a hit or miss.
Do something else with a different company if all you can do is bitch. Apple's done nothing to you to have such an attitude. They are offering a service that customer's have asked for and you just want them to give back like they owe you something and they don't.
 
this is great news although the ipod touch owners are gonna wine and what not for the new features in 2.0 i think by next macworld the iphone will pass rim in terms of market share usage
 
let people complain if the must.

I will go off and play with the SDK, have an app or two ready for June, and when I am at the beach enjoying the fruits of my labor, I will still read those that complain today whine about how tough life and Apple in particular are...

Someone said that the iPhone release is a watershed moment in the industry at large... if folks would realize that this is the case, there would be less whining in these pages. The iFund folks believe it is, and that should have some weight.
 
So basically devs have to sit around with their apps for 3 months (or from the time they finish it to "late-June")?
Well, its either that or launch the iPhone store with no apps......

And, I would rather have 3 months to give feedback to apple so they can have a better 'final' sdk than they would have otherwise.

This is the best way to do things IMO.
 
I couldn't agree more. In the end I think you'll end up being able to just drag apps from your computer to the iphone. Companies who do a lot of internal software will not to want to ship it off to Apple. Then you open up the whole issue of controlling who can DL the software, etc...

Shh.... If we don't agree 100% with Apple's decision, we're malcontent whiners who don't know anything about development :)

Unfortunately (at least for the current proposed method), there *are* situations when a developer would want to develop applications but specifically NOT distribute them through Apple. I still think that people would be livid should this method be applied to a computer, but when it comes to the "computer in the pocket" it seems to be OK...
 
The Enterprise Apps are great!

I can wait till June if it's going to be more solid.

I wonder if we'll see 3G before then or coincide with the release :confused:

All in All, Apple's done well.

Going to be a big step for them into the enterprise world!

Ohh, just got a memo down from the boss.

Meeting in 30 minutes about iphone deployment to the enterprise.

Gotta Go!

Apple has no chance in enterprise. Companies usually have internal rules not to tie to single vendor. I don't see any bigger company to purchase phones that work only with one provider. Apple wanted to narrow deformed cell phone market but they have deformed market with cell phone services. Do you want to use iPhone? You have to go with poor service/high priced service, no choices available. This is killing iPhone in enterprise, companies won't change their providers just because of iPhone, forget it.
 
Apple has no chance in enterprise. Companies usually have internal rules not to tie to single vendor. I don't see any bigger company to purchase phones that work only with one provider. Apple wanted to narrow deformed cell phone market but they have deformed market with cell phone services. Do you want to use iPhone? You have to go with poor service/high priced service, no choices available. This is killing iPhone in enterprise, companies won't change their providers just because of iPhone, forget it.

most companies I have worked with prefer using one cell company. It gives them (or their employees) better discounts, better support, a lot more free minutes and texting opportunities and a well connected (usually) representative. To say that the iPhone won't take off in enterprise is because it would force you to use 1 carrier would be the same as saying Nextel would have never made it in enterprise because direct connect only worked with nextel phones.
 
now heres what i think..

people are going to have to live with installer and a few good apps til June
th SDK is available free!!
fr 3 mnths!!
i cnt imagine wt installer.app would hold for me till iphone2.0
man th developers woulda creamed their pants
hv been cme online aftr a week, man this feels good!:apple:
 
Too many whiners. OMG. Can you believe that.

Yes, but what is worse? The whining or the ones that have to continually complain ABOUT the whining? To me, they are both the same thing. Generally speaking, you either agree with something or disagree with it. If you agree, you're usually labeled a fanboy and if you disagree you're labeled a whiner. But then that's why I thought it was called discussion forum. You share OPINIONS here and they are perceived as either positive or negative, like life in general.

Personally, I was planning using an iPod Touch as a wifi controller in a whole house audio system (via either Remote Buddy + Airtunes or iPeng + Squeezebox) and I have NOT yet purchased the iPod Touch. Knowing that I will have to pay more money to update it in just 3 months is a bit disappointing. It reminds me of those that needed a Mac a couple of months before Leopard was scheduled to come out. I wondered why they couldn't include upgrade coupons after Leopard was formerly announced, especially in light of it being delayed. It seems like if they can announce the upgrade fee NOW, they should start including it in the products NOW as well plus perhaps 30 days retroactive. Then perhaps people would not feel 'ripped off' by their actions despite whether other people prefer to devalue those opinions as 'whining'. Or put another way, what incentive does Apple offer me to buy that iPod Touch NOW instead of in June when they are telling me now that I will have to pay more in June if I buy it now but not if I wait? That is a bad business move, IMO purely because it doesn't accomplish anything positive except a slight capital gain (compared to sales in general). The fact people are 'whining' indicates they are unhappy. A happy customer is a return customer. The same is not always true of unhappy customers.

Some people mentioned federal laws requiring a charge. I did not notice a post that mentioned what federal law that might be. Apple does not charge for MacOSX updates within a given class (i.e. tiger updates or leopard updates) or even various iTunes or iPhone/iPod Touch minor updates. Why should 2.0 be any different to Federal Law compared to 1.1 or 1.2? I'd like an explanation from such individuals, not just expecting me to take their word for it. Frankly, even a million users x $20 = tens of millions of dollars in pure profit. That doesn't sound very minor to me. It sounds like Apple soaking existing customers for the ability to BUY more applications for their device. Apple doesn't charge me to update iTunes because they want me to buy music and movies from their iTunes store. So why should an iPod Touch user have to pay to update their iPod Touch to be able to buy applications from the iTunes store? You're not buying functionality there (compared to the previous update which at least gave more applications); you're buying the ability to buy functionality and so you're being charged twice. I'd call that a reason to be legitimately upset, no matter how minor 'fanboys' think that charge might be. Now if that upgrade includes some new applications with it, perhaps it would not come across as quite as bad as purely creating a way to buy new applications.

As for a developer potentially having to pay $99 to publish free software, all I can say is someone who is already giving away their time and effort to make software for free should not have to pay to give it away. If there is any charge to do so (from what I read it's not entirely clear whether that $99 free applies to free publishing or not), the authors will want to recoup that $99 and will then have to charge something to gain it back and then it will no longer be 'free' software (plus Apple then gets to take 30% of that as well) so I guess I can see why Apple would want to discourage 'free' software, but that doesn't make it a more attractive platform to the consumer. The argument that the fee will somehow prevent a lot of crappy software from appearing on iTunes doesn't make sense because Apple can review/reject software regardless (if it doesn't fit their ideals or whatever) so it could easily reject a "hello world" app as malicious or a waste of bandwidth or whatever. It doesn't need a $99 fee to stop it. Indeed, the idea that paying $99 would allow someone to publish annoying/crap software like a "hello world" app isn't appealing to me either.

It might be better if there were simply another way to load free apps onto the iPhone outside of Apple's control and let the user decide to do it at their own risk and let "Apple Approved" apps on iTunes. The problem there, of course, is Apple wants to soak commercial developers for a whopping 30% of their profits for simply hosting their software on their store. That's REALLY REALLY GREEDY, IMO and might be a bad sign of things to come. What if the next version of MacOS X for their desktops and laptops requires software distribution soley on Apple's store and only at their discretion? Is that crazy? Why is it any less crazy because it's on iPhone? A platform is a platform and they're both running a form of MacOS X. IMO, Apple should stick to creating hardware and operating systems and leave 3rd party development to 3rd parties (i.e. charge for the SDK, not for each sale of the software).

Frankly, I think the only reason any commercial developer is willing to put up with Apple's greedy demands is that they are just as greedy and want to make money off a popular new platform any way they can. Furthermore, I think the only reason Apple doesn't currently do the same for their desktops and laptops (Leopard could have made that possible, after all) is that unlike iPhone, the desktops and laptops running MacOSX are NOT popular compared to PCs running Windows. If Apple had 95+% of the market share, there is NO DOUBT in my mind they would be doing EXACTLY that and Steve Jobs would be the richest man in the world instead of Bill Gates. As Macs gain more popularity, I would expect more controls all the time over the OS just like Windows did (and unlike Windows, the hardware too). It's inevitable because human nature is inevitable when it's based on purely greed. If Apple can make $200 instead of $100, they're going to charge $200, even if it hurts people financially because like most companies, they don't CARE about people, only taking their money.

Ultimately, that is why I keep rooting in the background for Linux to become more usable and user-friendly because when your core is about free and open software instead of Capitalism, you can't go down the moral tubes so-to-speak. Ultimately, neither Apple or Microsoft is your friend. If anything, they are your master. They are more and more often telling you what you can and cannot do and what you can and cannot run. "Jailbreaking" et al is the OS equivalent of software cracking, IMO. There's a real moral dilemma there created by the simple lack of something that should have been there in the first place, namely a decent and FAIR equitable solution. iTunes did prove people will pay for music if it's FAIR. But charging to host on a store is a bit different from requiring people to USE your store. There is nothing to stop a musician or music company from selling music directly to you or via another store to play on your Mac. But with iPhone, you either sell on iTunes or you don't sell at all. Heck, that sounds like a future court case waiting to happen, IMO. If Microsoft required you use their store to sell your software to work with Windows, they'd be in court tomorrow for creating a monopoly on software distribution for their own platform. I don't see where the size of the platform should be relevant, really.

Honestly, I DO believe it WILL end up in court the first time a company offers a way to bypass iTunes and sell apps directly for iPhone/iPT. Apple will sue for them not using iTunes per some agreement in the SDK and the company will counter-sue for them monopolizing the distribution method for the iPhone/iPod Touch computer platform (and it IS a computer platform now that there is an SDK and the admission it runs OSX, not some scaled-down version, but the REAL OSX). For the good of the computing world and the reduction of these nauseating software license agreements (that almost no one even reads due to sheer length and lawyer babble), I'd be rooting for Apple to LOSE such a fight. Apple is making money hand over foot from the hardware, they don't need to be control freaks about the software too or monopolize the store markets for their own products.

Imagine if I could only buy Doom3 off iTunes for this Mac computer I'm on right now instead of any number of stores/options (at Apple's insistence, not the company that made the game). Apple would be in court for certain. It's their hardware AND their OS? That wouldn't fly in court for a mainstream computer platform so why should it fly for a mainstream mobile platform? It can't and it won't the first time it's tested in court. That simply hasn't happened yet.
 
I'm Excited

I think that Apple is being very smart about this. They are going down the quality road rather than quickness. In the long run we will be glad that we don't have "developed in a day" malicious apps that are buggy and frustrating.

I DO wish that they would give us MMS, copy/paste etc, but oh well, it isn't a big deal. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE those features, and I love my iPhone, but really, to get mad at Steve Jobs for not giving it is kind of immature.

"But I want an Oompa Loompa now Daddy!"
 
most companies I have worked with prefer using one cell company. It gives them (or their employees) better discounts, better support, a lot more free minutes and texting opportunities and a well connected (usually) representative. To say that the iPhone won't take off in enterprise is because it would force you to use 1 carrier would be the same as saying Nextel would have never made it in enterprise because direct connect only worked with nextel phones.

This is true - most companies have a preferred network and handset supplier. The issue here isn't preference though, it's the discounts expected and I'm not sure the iPhone is priced attractively enough to seriously break into that market. Of course that could change if Apple's marketing strategy changes.
 
To MagnusVonMagnum's very long post a little further up this page...


Give me a break!! Do you have any idea what you are talking about?!!

DISTRIBUTION IS EVERYTHING.

Apple are rebating developers 70% of the gross purchase cost of their software and apple are wearing all the costs of maintaining the itunes shopfront and everything that goes with it. That is an amazing deal to have your software one click away from the entire global iphone usebase.

Why would anyone choose to use another distribution channel??!!
Itunes gives every user a clean reliable and integrated shop to get all their iphone software. NOBODY is going to bother hunting around the deep dark corners of the web for alternative software.

$99 is peanuts for the right to showcase your product on itunes with all the advantages that brings. The good developers are going to have a licence to print money and be rewarded for their work.

This is an great deal for apple and a great deal for the both their users and independent software writers whose main problem has always been about getting their software 'out there'.

Lastly you are also wrong about the technology income v itunes. If you check out the Apple numbers you will see that for apple the big money is in getting people buying on itunes as opposed to the small profit on selling the ipods/iphones.
 
Yes, but what is worse? The whining or the ones that have to continually complain ABOUT the whining? To me, they are both the same thing....

Personally, I was planning using an iPod Touch as a wifi controller in a whole house audio system (via either Remote Buddy + Airtunes or iPeng + Squeezebox) and I have NOT yet purchased the iPod Touch. Knowing that I will have to pay more money to update it in just 3 months is a bit disappointing... blah blah blah complain blah blah

Hypocrite much? :rolleyes:

Suffice to say fanboys here want everything and a pony from Apple. Microsoft locks it's people into Microsoft "Solutions" (cough cough) with their crapware, but you don't hear Microsoft fanboys complaining. I'm not sure why Apple users on this forum are such zealots and expect everything for free. Things cost money, you don't like that, switch to Linux and built your own box or just suck it up, seriously.

And the person upthread talking about corporations not wanting to be locked into one enterprise solution? Bzzzt. Wrong. That's how Microsoft basically became the 800 pound gorilla (run by a monkey named Ballmer) was by locking corporations into their software, OS, and supposed "certifications" and "solutions" (cough cough cough). Companies would rather be tied into one vendor for everything, I know, I've worked for Fortune 50 companies, and they always prefer one vendor, and sadly most went with Microsoft even though short and long run it was more money than if they went with Macs or Linux (their reasoning being "everyone else is going with Microsoft" which was akin to "everyone else likes the taste of dung so let's eat dung), it takes less people to maintain one solution (though with Microsoft actually it's more money) than many and supposedly saves them money (though reality is with Microsoft it costs them more money in staffing, fees, etc.).
 
I watched the video and most of it was way over my head but I got he gist of it.

I don't own an iphone (just a shuffle) as I can't get one here and I have no axe to grind either way. However it seems that apple have really thought this out.

Attention to detail is an apple trait and once again this comes to the fore. From the quality of the presentation, the graphics, the well thought out SDK, the brilliant distribution -it just seems to me that this is the dawn of something really reall big.

I think the 2.0 thing is a very strong hint at the 3G phone-there is no way they will let this opportunity slip-one last thing its 3G.

I agree with the above post. At my fairly large company MS is used exclusively.
 
Are you really this thick?

You did not answer what value it adds for a developer. And if you think of it no store ever had done that - charge for entry. Charging for displaying the goods and associated costs + profit is fine - thats how stores work. But charging for nothing and then again charging 30% in the name of "store upkeep" is ridiculous. The $99 is just that - entry charges.

They aren't charging for you to "enter the store", they're charging a one-time fee to *merchants* who want to offer goods for sale. This gets you the digital certificate with which you will sign your apps. Only signed apps will be available through the Apple iPhone store. They also charge 30% of whatever you are charging for your app to pay for vetting your app (to make sure it doesn't fall into one of their forbidden categories, e.g. porn, malware, etc.) and for storage, bandwidth, advertising, and handling the payment transactions. It sounds like a damn fine deal to me. Just how much do you think it would cost to do all that yourself? Plus, how much traffic do you think some website you set up yourself is going to pull vs. what Apple's iPhone store site is going to pull? Seriously, get over yourself, stop complaining, or go develop for some other phone.
 
And Touch owners are getting screwed again since they will have to pay for the update!

That sucks.

Consider few facts:

a) iPod touch costs less than equivalent iPhone does. So you save money there

b) iPhone has a monthly subscription-costs attached to it, iPod touch does not

So if you want to avoid those upgrade-costs, go buy an iPhone. Of course you would then have to pay more for the device, and you would have to keep on paying every month, but at least you wouldn't get "screwed", right?
 
Consider few facts:

a) iPod touch costs less than equivalent iPhone does. So you save money there

b) iPhone has a monthly subscription-costs attached to it, iPod touch does not

So if you want to avoid those upgrade-costs, go buy an iPhone. Of course you would then have to pay more for the device, and you would have to keep on paying every month, but at least you wouldn't get "screwed", right?


The extra cost is for cellphone functionality and the monthly payments are your cellphone usage charges made by AT&T, not Apple.

Mr Apple, meet Mr Orange.
 
The impression I got from the $99 fee is that its a digital certificate so they can verify who you are.

If Apple gets inundated with applications, there's no reasonable way to check every one. I see this as a way to ensure that Joe Virus writer isn't releasing keylogger software or some other malware. If they do, they have someone to backtrack to.

What! No Porn! HAHAHAHA

It doesn't look like they have any real restrictions other than the dock connector. I think overall this is a good thing. Looks like the Game writers are on board. The folks at Sega seemed pretty impressed during their demo. I personally didn't think they could pull off reasonable games on this thing, but they proved it to all of us.

This really opens up the world to the iPhone. Even the long time players are going to struggle to keep up. RIM had to have dropped a load last night.

Does anyone know if the Active synch is licensed only to iPhone? This would go a hell of a long way toward Corporate adoption of Mac's on the desktop.
 
The extra cost is for cellphone functionality and the monthly payments are your cellphone usage charges made by AT&T, not Apple.

And Apple gets a cut of those monthly payments, whereas with the touch, they do not have any kind of monthly income on the device.

Fact remains that owning the touch is a A LOT cheaper than owning an iPhone, and that includes any software-upgrades that we have to pay for.
 
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