I believe they're both similar in performance on paper. Skylake may not be until early 2016. If this current spec bump would have been released earlier in the year then Skylake may have been possible by the end of this year. An announcement by end of year may be more likely.
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Apple Releases New 15-Inch MacBook Pro With Force Touch and $1,999 27-Inch iMac With Retina Display
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I believe they're both similar in performance on paper. Skylake may not be until early 2016. If this current spec bump would have been released earlier in the year then Skylake may have been possible by the end of this year. An announcement by end of year may be more likely.
Yes.
The just-announced model doesn't offer anywhere near $500 of value for what you're doing.
I really wanted to give my aging 2008 MBP a rest.
Initially this was very disappointing news, a silent, not worthy of an WWDC announcement, lipstick on a pig, only an old 4th gen, 'toc'.
But then I realized, this is great news! If this was a Broadwell machine I would say they would want to sell as many as the could, with minor updates this year. We would be stuck with them until Skylake 2016. This toc means the rumors are correct in that Apple will skip Broadwell and go straight to a true 'Toc' with a Skylake announcement at WWDC. Release date Q4 2015, just in time for the heavy holiday sales
The only folks that will buy this toc are the ones that absolutely 'need' a new laptop or unaware that a Toc is now around the corner.
You seriously think that Apple is going to announce a new MBP less than 3 weeks after releasing these new models?
I really wanted to give my aging 2008 MBP a rest.
Initially this was very disappointing news, a silent, not worthy of an WWDC announcement, lipstick on a pig, only an old 4th gen, 'toc'.
But then I realized, this is great news! If this was a Broadwell machine I would say they would want to sell as many as the could, with minor updates this year. We would be stuck with them until Skylake 2016. This toc means the rumors are correct in that Apple will skip Broadwell and go straight to a true 'Toc' with a Skylake announcement at WWDC. Release date Q4 2015, just in time for the heavy holiday sales
The only folks that will buy this toc are the ones that absolutely 'need' a new laptop or unaware that a Toc is now around the corner.
I'm sorry, but there will not be a MBP or iMac announced at WWDC. Their update (this one) was not even worth a WWDC announcement, and they kept it silent. They aren't going to announce a new version in half a month.
I have always found that the 15" MBP was an outstanding machine overall with a dGPU that was almost embarrassing. The 750m was just a slight (10%) bump to the 650m, which was released back in Q1 of 2012. The new 4x PCIE SSD might be the sleeper feature that makes a huge difference in the perception of speed.
With the update to the Radeon m370x, I think the machine is pretty compelling assuming the card clocks in around a 950m. I just ran Firestrike on my 2014 15" MBP, and scored 1885 in the graphics score (1804 in the overall score). If we see a 70% improvement on the 370m per Apples site, we would see a score of about 3200. If that actually works out to be accurate, this card would be almost identical to a 950m, which according to notebookcheck is scoring 3284.
One minor thing to point out is that my current system is running the 4980HQ CPU at 2.8-4.0 ghz, so its possible that helps the Firestrike score some.
With the update to the Radeon m370x, I think the machine is pretty compelling assuming the card clocks in around a 950m. I just ran Firestrike on my 2014 15" MBP, and scored 1885 in the graphics score (1804 in the overall score). If we see a 70% improvement on the 370m per Apples site, we would see a score of about 3200. If that actually works out to be accurate, this card would be almost identical to a 950m, which according to notebookcheck is scoring 3284.
One minor thing to point out is that my current system is running the 4980HQ CPU at 2.8-4.0 ghz, so its possible that helps the Firestrike score some.
Greed, not actually an update...
Sorry - typo in title - I meant "agreed" - not wanting to imply that Apple does minor tweaks for reasons of greed.
Apple didn't even make an official announcement about this - just "leaked" it.
Like in the past, I think Apple's just adding some incremental improvements because the real update has been delayed. My guess is this was for software reasons - Apple wants fore touch on the entire Mac line as soon as possible so they can tailor the OS to it.
Did this even get a new hardware ID?
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History would say that Apple can launch a major update within 6 months of an emergency tweak...
Sorry - typo in title - I meant "agreed" - not wanting to imply that Apple does minor tweaks for reasons of greed.
Apple didn't even make an official announcement about this - just "leaked" it.
Like in the past, I think Apple's just adding some incremental improvements because the real update has been delayed. My guess is this was for software reasons - Apple wants fore touch on the entire Mac line as soon as possible so they can tailor the OS to it.
Did this even get a new hardware ID?
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History would say that Apple can launch a major update within 6 months of an emergency tweak...
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OK - Apologies, I was only looking at the Retina - didn't realise the non-Retina had changed.
It's a pretty MEH update, just a mild revamp to get the 15" rMBP family ticking for another half a year'ish until the real Skylake update happens.
From what I've been reading in GPU review sites and experts' comments, the Radeon m370x is expected to perform right below the GTX 950m, so we're talking about a budget mid-level dGPU: adequate for casual gaming, but nothing stellar by any means.
Quite frankly... rather disappointing. I am in the market for a new top of the line rMBP, but this update doesn't excite me much. /sigh, it seems like my poor old lappy will have to soldier on until Skylake
From what I've been reading in GPU review sites and experts' comments, the Radeon m370x is expected to perform right below the GTX 950m, so we're talking about a budget mid-level dGPU: adequate for casual gaming, but nothing stellar by any means.
Quite frankly... rather disappointing. I am in the market for a new top of the line rMBP, but this update doesn't excite me much. /sigh, it seems like my poor old lappy will have to soldier on until Skylake
There is a huge difference between 'within 6 months' and 'in less than 3 weeks'.
I bet Apple does a silent update to Broadwell in a couple months without changing the unit or pricing when the chips become available. I see Skylake as a likely chassis update, and perhaps an opportunity to offer a 4k panel.
As a dGPU user, I really don't care about Broadwell at all. I am looking forward to Skylake and some of the other things it will offer like Thunderbolt 3.
As a dGPU user, I really don't care about Broadwell at all. I am looking forward to Skylake and some of the other things it will offer like Thunderbolt 3.
He's saying the non-retina iMac has lost all the upgrade options - now it;s just a base machine that you can't configure (no i7, no 780M GPU upgrade).
Not everyone wants the retina iMac. And now if you want an upgraded GPU you have to get a retina one, which costs more than you would otherwise want to spend.
All that was needed for the non-retina iMac was to add a 980M GPU. Everything else could have stayed the same and it would have been perfect (well, maybe also add a door in the back to make upgrading the SSD easier).
Now the only choice is to get the molten-lava-producting retina iMac with the hopeless blast-furnace AMD GPU.
If memory serves correct, I could upgrade the mid level non-retina iMac with an i7 and a better graphics card for around $2349ish. Now to upgrade I am forced to 1. go up a model and spend more money for those similar upgrades and 2. I now am forced to have a 5k display (which is nice but not needed), and from what I have heard needs more cpu/gpu to drive that many pixels. I was thinking about getting the mid level 27" and future proofing it just a bit with those 2 upgrades. Now I will have to buy a 5k (un-needed) display with only minor upgrades. Sure the top level one came down but I'd rather by mid-level and save some $$$ vs spending $$$ on a 5k display. That's what I get for waiting. Oh well, decisions and problems of first word countries. Back to work.
Guys, I've been reading the whole thread and there is only one idea which is bothering me: are you crazy? What Skylake by Q4 2015 are you talking about?
To date, Intel has had delays with all processors starting from Sandy (or Ivy) Bridge. They had huge problems with Haswell. They couldn't meet the deadlines with Broadwell. In fact, they haven't even released Broadwell-H processors. Yet, you still believe that by Q4 2015 the Skylake chips may miraculously appear and be ready for you.
How many delays from Intel do you need to stop putting trust into Intel?
My guess is that by Q4 2015 they may release Broadwell-H chips. Perhaps somewhere in Q3-Q4 2016 they will produce a batch of either desktop or mobile Skylake processors. I don't believe it will happen earlier.
This ridiculous update has been done by Apple because they still need to sell computers before the Broadwell has been released. It means that Broadwell will be available in MBP or iMac in 9-10 months at the earliest.
Don't believe Intel and their timeframes. If they have delayed one architecture, they will delay the next architecture by the same time period.
To date, Intel has had delays with all processors starting from Sandy (or Ivy) Bridge. They had huge problems with Haswell. They couldn't meet the deadlines with Broadwell. In fact, they haven't even released Broadwell-H processors. Yet, you still believe that by Q4 2015 the Skylake chips may miraculously appear and be ready for you.
How many delays from Intel do you need to stop putting trust into Intel?
My guess is that by Q4 2015 they may release Broadwell-H chips. Perhaps somewhere in Q3-Q4 2016 they will produce a batch of either desktop or mobile Skylake processors. I don't believe it will happen earlier.
This ridiculous update has been done by Apple because they still need to sell computers before the Broadwell has been released. It means that Broadwell will be available in MBP or iMac in 9-10 months at the earliest.
Don't believe Intel and their timeframes. If they have delayed one architecture, they will delay the next architecture by the same time period.
Screw it. My next rig will be a Windows 10 PC with a refurb MB Air for the lighter work. I'm getting sick of Apple charging high prices with no performance upgrades. A year and a half later, they are releasing the same CPU/GPU? Give me a break.
I would gladly pay more for anything that is not windows. Specs are not everything.
Plus you act like they have done this multiple times. Lol
This is my belief also. I think the driver for this refresh was the age of the 750m and probably a lack of supply of it too, given its age. They probably left it as long as they dared, waiting for intel, but it would then come down to either dropping the dGPU option or stick with Haswell.
It will take time to refine the 14nm process, starting with the desktop and dual core chips. The quad core laptop models will be about the last to appear and I expect Skylake to be no different, although a lot of the 14nm pain will be gone by then as this will be a second pass. I still don't reckon we'll see Skylake in a MBP until early 2016.
Broadwell????
By March 2016, Skylakes definitely should be available for all manufacturers...
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Well you may have a valid point, but no one will like your prophecies...
So, honestly speaking: What may Apple offer, at the best, when March-April 2016 arrives for the 13" & 15" rMBP? (For the moment let's put the MBA family aside...)
Why in the world would Apple update the non-retina iMac to better specs than the retina (i.e. putting in a 980m)? The retina is their new top-of-the-line as of October. It is disappointing that they didn't improve the GPU in this refresh, but it wasn't really expected; just VERY wishful thinking. The 295X, while not the best, is a good GPU.
The driver for the refresh was a dGPU and a Broadwell-H. I'm sure Intel assured Apple that they would supply Broadwell-H processor but weren't able to meet the deadlines, so Apple had no other choice but use the existing Haswell processors with new motherboards equipped with new dGPUs.
Personally, I find Apple's decision to go for AMD GPU very strange. As a person who owns a late-2011 MBP which turned into a brick more than a year ago as the result of Radeongate, I'm very happy that I bought an MBP with an nVidia chip, even though the chip has become kinda outdated by now.
If I had to face a choice between the one with AMD dGPU or the one without dGPU whatsoever, I'd choose the one with internal graphics.
Never in my life will I buy anything AMD again.
15' rMBP with Broadwell-H, I guess. Maybe not in April-March but in January-February.
I thought they would put the 980M in the retina one too - it's clearly the superior card, but they've stuck with AMD for some reason, presumably because of some engineering quirk required to deal with the 5k display that makes it non-trivial to swap GPUs right now (especially since that means redoing the whole logic board for the iMac).
It has spelled the end of the line for me on future upgrades. My current late 2012 will last a good while yet, but at the moment there's no clear upgrade path if it needs replacement before then.
The Nvidia 980M (and even the 970M) runs too hot for the current design of the cooling system in the rMBP. I would have loved to see a rMBP with this GPU, but it ain't going to happen. I now have a laptop (XMG P505) with a 970M GPU and love it, I can play pretty much any game on it in Ultra settings, but it's much larger than the rMBP, due to the cooling system required (though considerably thinner and lighter than the fugly Alienware gaming laptops).