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Has anyone that ordered one of the new MBP's that had any kind of upgrade or options added to the computer had it ship yet? I am wondering how long it is taking between order and shipment right now. The site says 2-4 days, but sometimes Apple is quicker than the estimate.
I ordered an MBP 17" about 27 hours ago... upgraded the drive to 7200 RPM, no other changes. It says 5-7 days and estimated delivery on 23-26 June.

I don't doubt the 5-7 days part, but 23-26 June sounds bonkers since the shipment usually takes about 2 or 3 days.
 
Like you said some people this and some people that. However most people don't.

Most of this again has to do with market potential. If by removing the express card on a model is infrequently used by a majority of users and they can reduce costs and inprove other worthwhile specs while doing it, economy of scales win. I have to think this is the real reason since I can't see 1" making a difference between having the express card slot on the 17" and not the 15". I then think that the SD card slot was added as a cheap way to fill in the unused space and give people a feature that has been requested. If you go back and look at old posts, there were many people upset that the macbooks did not have an SD card slot in the past.

By increasing choices you increase price. Again if most don't have a use for it then why put it in all models. Apple is trying to gain more market share to have a feature set that valuable to largest set of potential users. In turn they left the express card in the premium model that is most used by professionals.

Yes you have less expandability without the express card slot but if you were in the majority and never using it anyway, you were paying for a feature that you never used. You are affecting the small percentage of the base that MAC attracts. They aren't leaving anyone out in the cold since they still offer this option on the 17" (Which is a Total PRO feature set).

I see no real market potential in a one size fits all attitude, if Apple want to increase their market they have to have the options that people want, otherwise they will go else where. As awful as the MS ads were, they had a point.

By your argument because not many people used the expresscard slot (which you give no evidence for) it's fine to remove it? How many people use the FW port, or the iSight camera, or the ethernet port, or the optical drive, should they nix all of those too? Of course not, it wouldn't make sense, and by that argument too, how many people are actually going to use the SD card slot, I wouldn't be surprised if it was fewer than used the expresscard slot. Hell I bet there are people who never use the USB ports, why not drop those too.

I think that this is to do with the upsell, something that Apple are great at, sure the base 15" has dropped in price, but this will have more to do with using a cheaper CPU and dropping the dedicated GPU, than dropping the expresscard slot.

One other thing, the "Pro" models were always marketed to the "Pro" market, i.e. people who may need the expandability, not just the shiny case. Whereas the 15" MBP is now just a very nice consumer notebook that'll still cost more than comparable Dells, HPs or Acers.

IMHO Apple currently offer 2 decent computers for people who want to create, the 17" MBP and the dual Quad MP, all the rest are just shiny toys, only good for youtube/email/browsing and little else, mainly due to the lack of expandability or the exuberant pricing.

Edit:

To counter my b*tcing, I will say that the new 13" MBP with firewire (about time) does look like a nice machine, and if it gets a speed bump within the next year I will consider getting one, as I love my current 2.0 C2D macbook, as far as price/portability/features go it is pretty hard to beat, but here's hoping the UK economy picks up and if so Apple does the right thing and adjusts their pricing :)
 
Regarding the ExpressCard slot, I have to ask since it boggles my mind...

Why is everyone so hell bent on buying the 15" model and not the 17"? It's like the 17" doesn't exist.

From a portability standpoint, a fully-featured 13" would be considered even better.

I totally get that, and I'd definitely get a 15" or a 13" if I was a student. I get the whole portability thing. But I was talking about people who work professionally with video and audio since they're the ones who are complaining about the omission of ExpressCard on the 15". These are people who usually lug around lots of stuff anyway... why don't they just get the 17" (which retains the ExpressCard port) and enjoy all the extra screen real estate? They can carry a PA system, amps, instruments, racks, but not a few extra ounces worth of laptop?

Because when you're already carrying a huge pile of carp, that extra pound is YA extra pound.

For some percentage of the Pros, the ony reason why there's a laptop at all is to verify that all the gear's talking and working properly - - sure, there's the occasional (or few) "Ad Hoc" get-it-done-on-the-road types, but for a decent number, the serious data reduction occurs back at home, with a larger monitor plugged in or whatever else.

For example, for my photo workflow, I'm still using a 12" G4 Powerbook while on the road - - and when I get home, it gets downloaded to the desktop and displayed on a 24" screen. Considering that my one camera rig packed out weighs in at 26lbs (11.6kg) before I slide the laptop into its pocket, every pound that I can shave off helps me get through airports without falling over dead.


-hh
 
You my friend are very ignorant. Besides the fact that moving to Intel was a move for the FUTURE (faster processors/more cores, less heat, more power), removing the Express Card slot is a step BACKWARDS. Just like removing firewire from the 13" MB.

I feel for the folks this has some impact on (at least for the 15" option), but no way this is like dropping firewire. There are many millions of devices out there that have firewire on them to hook to the 13" MB/MBP.

The spin from Apple pointed more so on all new devices than all of the devices actually deployed/owned by Mac owners. It was one of those "Well just buy all new stuff" solutions. In that respect I understand why folks find it similar.

Sure there may be 5,000 bands out there world wide on the road with major mac pro set ups. Sure there may be 5,000 folks out there shooting HD movies in 5.1 sound. Sure there may be 5,000 folks out driving non linear edits out in the field is a raid array attached to there laptop. And sure if put all 15K of them into a auditorium or small stadium you'd have a full house. If you asked that crowd was ExpressCard extremely important they'd all say "heck yeah".

However, if Apple sells 300,000 MBP 15" units then only amounts to 5% of the owners. I had a chance to see the rollout presentation at this point. Apple puts the number of people using ExpressCard at less than 1%.
Whether that means more MBP are sold or I was being very generous with the numbers I don't know. ( Apple may be undercounting but I'd be surprised given all the examples presented here so far if the number of users using managed to crack the double digits. )

Likewise in the presentation that did mention that there are some "high end" solutions that need the ExpressCard. So suspect Apple knows you folks are out there. It was mentioned that kept the ExpressCard on the 17" for that motivation.


With examples of equipment stacks like this:

Further evidence you have no idea what you are talking about:

http://www.duel-systemsadapters.com/?productid=DP-0001 - For using P2 cards. A professional solid-state video storage.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/528236-REG/Sony_SBP_16_SBP_16_16GB_SxS_PRO.html - For use in Sony's EX Series XDCAMs for professional video cameras

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/esataexpresscard - For connecting hard drives with a fast enough connection speed to deal with your HD footage you just shot

http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/mxo2/ - For viewing the footage you just shot and getting analog signals to and from the express card slot

http://www.aja.com/products/io/io-hd.php - I guess I could use this instead, oh wait... I only have one firewire port and no way to daisychain from this device (even if I did it wouldn't be a good idea)

In general, how is a 17" MBP going to break the bank? When it is "need to hook the cheapest MBP to hook to my $15K of equipment" that is going to get some raised eyebrow comments. All of this stuff is more a "portable" (deploy numerous elements and set up in the field) situations as opposed to laptop or normal office desk kind of set up. HD video on a 15" screen when you are looking for details? Similarly when folks are trying to deploy a MacPro setup in the field and trying to shrink the screen size.


Apple has a strict tier pricing model. In order to bring down the price on the 17" then needed to move the 15" down. So for the price 2 years ago for a mid/uppper range 15" MBP you can now get a 17". Furthermore, Apple is going to sell less 17" models than 15" models. So if that same 15K from my example above all drop onto the 17" they probably could break the double digit percentage. There is more sidepanel space on the 17" so should be much more easy to come out on top when the design trade-offs are being made with that more significant percentage. (e.g., battle off with the "need a second, independent power FW port" folks on the 17").


Hopefully Apple can continue slight move downs in 17" over time so that folks who need it aren't squeeze out but that is a slippery slope because the more they lower the price the more likely the percentage will sink back into the single digits again.



P.S. Just to avoid yet one more post ... very similar problem with the "no 9700 so can't be a pro" Unless SL changes things, in order to get the 9700 going you needed to reboot to get the speed increase. Again when a significant number of folks just need a bigger screen and would leave the 9700 turned off the vast majority of time (if trying to eek out most battery life this is exactly what you will do. The lower GHz processor will also help on this front. ) They haven't lost anything. If need the 9700 can get it at the same price you got it at before. What's the problem?

This one is a bit less disruptive because done inside of the same case format.

P.P.S. [again another slight tangent because probably through with this thread.]

Some of the audio problems seem to be because the devices are still stuck at FW400. If those devices all moved up would be more tractable to share half of the bus since it would still be 400-like througput. Apple is partially at fault here for not killing off the FW400 across the line sooner. It is boggling why it took this long. However, the external vendors are boxing in your solutions here as much as Apple is.

OK the stuff that has been out there is sunk cost/constraint to deal with. However, been hard pressed to see anything new at all that was up to FW800. Stuck in time forever? Long term that is going to cause problems
(unless everyone is waiting to jump ship to USB 3.0).


All that said I'm sure this will remain a bit controversial for the same reason that the lack of a mid-range mini-tower with PCI slots isn't going to go away either.

P.P.P.S. [ last one promise.. ]

For the band with laptops on stage, Why can't they be hidden behind props. Doesn't have to be as large as the Funkadelic Mothership, but something colorful ( or not; just black ) that the laptop sits down in then don't have to provide free logo advertising for Apple. Heck could sell logo space on the prop to someone else and that might pay for the laptop and the box. LOL.

Inside that box/prop the difference between 15 and 17 is much more easy to make disappear.
 
From a portability standpoint, a fully-featured 13" would be considered even better.



Because when you're already carrying a huge pile of carp, that extra pound is YA extra pound.

For some percentage of the Pros, the ony reason why there's a laptop at all is to verify that all the gear's talking and working properly - - sure, there's the occasional (or few) "Ad Hoc" get-it-done-on-the-road types, but for a decent number, the serious data reduction occurs back at home, with a larger monitor plugged in or whatever else.

For example, for my photo workflow, I'm still using a 12" G4 Powerbook while on the road - - and when I get home, it gets downloaded to the desktop and displayed on a 24" screen. Considering that my one camera rig packed out weighs in at 26lbs (11.6kg) before I slide the laptop into its pocket, every pound that I can shave off helps me get through airports without falling over dead.


-hh

You are fostering other points of why this is a silly argument. You are using the laptop for portability in the field but any real processing is done on your "desktop". BTW, does the G4 have a express slot and if so do you use it?

On another note. Pro features is not synonymous with "express card slot". Is that the only thing that made the previous 15" macbook pro a Pro computer?
 
On another note. Pro features is not synonymous with "express card slot". Is that the only thing that made the previous 15" macbook pro a Pro computer?

The main differences between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro before this refresh (apart from the casing) were, dedicated GPU, ExpressCard slot, FW 800, dual DVI support and larger display. So I'd say that the ExpressCard slot was one of the main selling features of the previous gen of MBPs over the smaller MacBook.

And before that, one of the selling points was the matte option.
 
IIRC, in Finland the "old" 15" MBP with 9600M GT cost 1899€, the new 15" MBP with 9600M GT costs 1849€ ;). The 15" with 9400M costs 1649€.

And what is it about the ExpressCard-slot? No-one used it. Well apart from the noisy minority who will keep on bitching and moaning about it for months to come. They act like the loss of the slot is the end of the world as we know it, when the fact is that the people who really need it are few and far between.

The owners of older MBP's are cheering as their machines have ExpressCard-slots. And after a while, they stop cheering and they keep on leaving that slot unused.... Yet we are supposed to believe that it's a vital feature that must not be touched. yeah, a vital, unused feature....

If you work with professional Hi-Def video, that slot is very useful for unloading cards from the camera during a shoot. Now I have to buy a $250 reader and add yet more bulk into the bag. I'm still getting one of these babies, that SD slot is never going to get used.

Just wanted to add that b/c you're obviously ignorant to the fact that a lot of people were using this "unused feature." There is life outside surfing the internet.
 
People who used the slot to upgrade their machines were few and far between. and you CAN still upgrade the machine. You can add RAM, you can add a bigger HD....



That's one additional gizmo to carry around. And using those gizmos and dongles eats in to the battery.



....no-one used....



I bet the card-slot gets 10 times more use than the ExpressCard-slot did.



So what exactly DID happen? A noisy minority lost a feature? Of course Apple can't cater to the whims of every single user out there. If you feel that their systems are not suitable for you, feel free to look elsewhere.

This reminds me of the switch to Intel. Some people vowed to never buy a Mac again. Fast forward a bit, and Macs are more popular than ever before. It seems that there is a minority out there that will complain about EVERYTHING. Every change is fatal and ensures the utter doom of Apple. Yet for some reason Apple marches from victory to victory.... Maybe, just maybe, Apple knows about laptops and needs of people more than Joe Q. Random on some website?

It IS funny to read the comments that basically say "I never used ExpressCard-slot, but you can pry it from my cold dead hands!"

Didn't you already make your point in your previous post, with all the same points? You're just coming off as a bitter fanboy now.
 
Why do pros think they should get their way?
You take photos, big deal, get over it
Go buy some film instead
 
If you work with professional Hi-Def video, that slot is very useful for unloading cards from the camera during a shoot. Now I have to buy a $250 reader and add yet more bulk into the bag. I'm still getting one of these babies, that SD slot is never going to get used.

Just wanted to add that b/c you're obviously ignorant to the fact that a lot of people were using this "unused feature." There is life outside surfing the internet.

Give that 250 to get the 17" for crying out loud, and get an inch more in size, big deal...it's not like the world revolves around video editing, plus the big screen will serve you right.

How can someone edit in a 15" screen hi def and not like the price cut of the 17" is beyond me. Oh wait I get it, they are just projecting their issues on a piece of hardware!
 
The main differences between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro before this refresh (apart from the casing) were, dedicated GPU, ExpressCard slot, FW 800, dual DVI support and lager display. So I'd say that the ExpressCrad slot was one of the main selling features of the previous gen of MBPs over the smaller MacBook.

And berfore that one of the selling points was the matte option.
Rather than transfer the corny "Pro" moniker to the 13" model, perhaps they would've done better to lose it altogether and call all the machines simply "MacBook". This would get them off the hook with the endless discussions on what constitutes a "pro" machine and allow them to change the product features however they see fit. There was never a "PowerBook Pro", but professionals got along just fine with those.

Personally I think the MBPs are prosumer rather than professional, but whatever...
 
Rather than transfer the corny "Pro" moniker to the 13" model, perhaps they would've done better to lose it altogether and call all the machines simply "MacBook". This would get them off the hook with the endless discussions on what constitutes a "pro" machine and allow them to change the product features however they see fit. There was never a "PowerBook Pro", but professionals got along just fine with those.

Personally I think the MBPs are prosumer rather than professional, but whatever...

I'd agree, and I'd bet there are many users who'd love a 17" notebook/desktop replacement but might not need the "Pro" features, or have the money to pay for it.

But it seems to be Apples way of dictating what their users need.

Need a small portable, upgradeable powerful notebook with a good GPU and expresscard slot, sorry don't have one, get the 17", or get the 13" and lose the features you want.

Need a notebook for light use but want a large screen, sorry don't have one, get the 13" or spend twice as much on a 17" with features/specs you don't need.

Apple used to have more bases covered in the notebook area when they had the 12" and 14" iBook and the 12", 15" and 17" powerbook, between those options there was something for nearly everyone, not so anymore it seems. :p

On a side note, I'm glad that I no longer have to depend on Apple dictating what desktop computers I can use, as my eFix hackintosh is working a treat, and they've just started to support the i7 platform, and the latest Nvidia GPUs, once they support Snow leopard I'll be set for my desktop needs for a good few years to come, all the while hoping that Apples notebook line improves its options.

P.S. There was never a PowerBook Pro, because the PowerBook was marketed as the "Pro" notebook and the iBook the consumer notebook, but TBH the lines were more clearly defined back then, i.e. Dual display support, PCMIA, faster CPUs, faster GPUs, Superdrives and other features that were only available on the Powerbooks in comparison to the iBooks.
 
Gigabit ethernet might be a way out of the storage problem. For those road warriors a little portable NAS/iSCSI drive/RAID box, a crossover cable and enabling jumbo frames would do the trick. Granted there's no bus provided power but you don't get that from a card interface either.
 
Hey man, count the anti apple posts you be made in the last couple of days, 50? 100? Why don't you just get a life instead?

Hey fella, how's about cutting out the personal attacks, it's not becoming.

And since when does making criticisms (valid or not, I'm not judging) "Anti Apple".
 
For example, for my photo workflow, I'm still using a 12" G4 Powerbook while on the road - - and when I get home, it gets downloaded to the desktop and displayed on a 24" screen. Considering that my one camera rig packed out weighs in at 26lbs (11.6kg) before I slide the laptop into its pocket, every pound that I can shave off helps me get through airports without falling over dead.
Right, but there you go... sounds like MBP 13" or even MBA could handle your on-the-road job. You don't need a desktop replacement on the road. And for those who do, the MBP 17" is the obvious choice.

BTW, I finally got around to dropping off the iMac for repairs. :D
I figured I'd do it after my client had released a public beta of the secret product I had on it, to avoid the microscopic risk of leaks...

Gotta say I'm really impressed with the service so far. I handed it over to an Apple Premium Reseller on May 20th. Mailed them last Wednesday, after 2 weeks, and wondered politely what the hell is going on... they said they were expecting parts "any day now, probably Friday". That was one week ago, still nothing. 10 more days and it's a full month!
 
If I were Apple, and I had the option to add an SD card slot that would benefit lots of users, or risk the loss of one sale, I'm afraid I'd make the same decision they made!

Seriously, most MBP pro never used the expresscard slot. Apple said it was in the single-digit percentages. And these are supposed to be mass-market machines. The SD card slot is much more useful to a larger percentage of people.

Apparently, you and Apple haven't been reading this thread. Many people use the ExpressCard slot, which is more versatile than the SD slot. And these aren't supposed to be the mass-market machines; they're supposed to be the "pro" machines. MBP, right? "Nobody" used Firewire, either, so Apple dropped it from its MB line, but Apple has just reintroduced it to the 13" MB. I suspect that Apple will correct this mistake, too.

I don't think I agree with that because all of the nikon's new cameras even up to their top of the line carry SD cards.

The Nikon D300 uses a CF card. The D700 uses a CF card. The D3x, the top of the line, uses a CF card. Which "top of the line" Nikons were you thinking of?
 
@xhwhatever

If you don't want to be forced at the options apple has presented you:

a. Make your own computer co..

b. Buy another brand.

But for the love of god grow up, life doesn't revolve around your buying a damn computer. I too hate glare, and you are right in saying some things, butylu know what I got a white iMac used and I am saving up for a 17 mbp or air, those are the options, and that's also to do with what most people want unfortunately, live with it.

What do you use your computer for, do you make money out of doing so?
I need the features of the 17, but it´s too big to take a long to location.

Live with it? If we followed your great example here do you think we would have FW back in the 13" MB?
No, it´s because people voice their opinion
 
Hey fella, how's about cutting out the personal attacks, it's not becoming.

And since when does making criticisms (valid or not, I'm not judging) "Anti Apple".
I didn't personaly attack anyone. Anti apple is when you manically post against apple 24/7 and with little to no reasoning.
 
Agreed...

I'm still waiting for the numpad on the 17'' macbook pro, How can you call pro a computer without number pad?? Real professionals use programs with lots of number entries!!
I'm still waiting for quad proccessor qx9300 17'' macbook pro All other brands already have it.
I'm still waiting for quadro fx graphic cards or gtx graphic cards buying a 2500€-3500€ notebook with a nvidia 9600 gpu IS A JOKE
I'm still waiting for BlueRay

Agreed…up to a point!

However, I'm also waiting for the Pro’s to have an internal 3G connection for WAN and lose the peripheral. I hope this is the thinking for the next upgrade.
Using your iPhone as a modem??? Not for me..maybe I need to be talking to a client why’ll I research/surf. It seems so dated if you ask me. :rolleyes:

Yes a numpad! Brilliant! Why haven’t PRO-fessionals complained about this more?
The 17” sure is big enough. You can move those weak speakers somewhere else; perhaps add one professional Bose speaker location.
If Bose can make a small speaker to fill a room they sure can make one tiny laptop speaker that better out-performs the current two weak speakers.

Seems like the future is SSD, why not have a SSD Slot (or mega sized memory card) and forget about external hard drives that are tethered, spin super fast,, heat up and crash.
I’d rather buy a 256GB SSD that I can hide in a slot as an “ex/internal” drive…that would be innovative. (I’ll have to wait a long time on that one):cool:

Anyway I’m not that impressed with the mcp 17” upgrades, even though I want an :apple:
I’ll continue waiting…for the price to match the professionalism I demand.
I would like to be mobile and use, Mac platform ready Siemens NX6 and other engineering/industrial design applications.:)
 
What do you use your computer for, do you make money out of doing so?
I need the features of the 17, but it´s too big to take a long to location.

Live with it? If we followed your great example here do you think we would have FW back in the 13" MB?
No, it´s because people voice their opinion

just a question - have you ever tried travelling with the 17" for a while or you just assuming? i have a 15" original MBP and it is perfect! its not heavy, not bulky, not anything apart from a delight. i cant see an extra 2 inches being annoying, and it probably weighs about the same as what i have now anyway! (dont get me started on the difference in power and battery life :rolleyes:)
 
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