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Thunderbolt display question. If Apple is using Display Port 1.1, then how are you able to span your desktop on two Thunderbolt monitors?

The Thunderbolt (TB) controller chip can have 2 Display Port v1.1 inputs pins. (http://www.intel.com/technology/io/thunderbolt/325136-001US_secured.pdf) This is the very similar to a video card with two v1.1 outputs. You could just hook the two different display port monitors to the two outputs and you would have spanning desktop (assuming video card can drive two monitors ).


Just think of it as each of the two outputs are sent to the two TB inputs inside the computer. The controller then transforms those two signals into TB protocol and sends them down the TB daisy chain(s) to two different monitors. Each monitor gets one of those 1.1 streams decoded back native Display Port. Same result as hooking to the two output jacks on the video card.

DP v1.1 is going to be simpler for TB to route. With DP v1.2's own multiplex and route protocol the TB controller would have to untangle and route over whatever the TB topology is. Sticking with v1.1 now is simpler. Either gets one or two signals. And not all TB controllers need to have two inputs. Again, v1.1 works well with that.
 
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Oh don't get me wrong, if you've seen my posts in these threads, I'm the first to say "USB optical drive, non-issue!" to most post crying over the fact that there's no internal optical drive anymore.

I just don't think it's an either or scenario here. Apple is pushing hard for this "change" but it's hardly for the better and obviously, the option is still there for those who prefer optical media. If only Apple would at least implement the software portions that are lacking for Blu-ray (without shipping drives), then all would be good in the world and everyone would have their option.

Yes Apple is a bit stubborn and one minded (this can be viewed in a good way and a bad way), staying away from Blu-ray, Flash (for the iOS devices) and now slowly pushing for the app store as a application distribution method.

I also think its better if the user has the customisation option, but then you might loose the reliability...
 
The Thunderbolt (TB) controller chip can have 2 Display Port v1.1 inputs pins. (http://www.intel.com/technology/io/thunderbolt/325136-001US_secured.pdf) This is the very similar to a video card with two v1.1 outputs. You could just hook the two different display port monitors to the two outputs and you would have spanning desktop (assuming video card can drive two monitors ).


Just think of it as each of the two outputs are sent to the two TB inputs inside the computer. The controller then transforms those two signals into TB protocol and sends them down the TB daisy chain(s) to two different monitors. Each monitor gets one of those 1.1 streams decoded back native Display Port. Same result as hooking to the two output jacks on the video card.

DP v1.1 is going to be simpler for TB to route. With DP v1.2's own multiplex and route protocol the TB controller would have to untangle and route over whatever the TB topology is. Sticking with v1.1 now is simpler. Either gets one or two signals. And not all TB controllers need to have two inputs. Again, v1.1 works well with that.

Somehow I missed the one or two per port part. This whole time I was thinking that you could only get mirroring out of 1 displayport.
 
I just hope Apple wont be ditching the Optical Drive from the iMac anytime soon. Otherwise it will be the all-in-one-but-not-quite machine. Yes I understand so many people here have lotsa money to download and have everything catered in a digitized fashion but I still see the OD as a VERY useful piece on a computer.

I am creating a Photo/Video Slideshow DVD for my son's second birthday. I can easily take the burned DVD to my in-laws for the party. I get client's files or photographer's photos on CD. Cure some places are now giving out Flashdrives but they don't really stack too well either. Since the start of this year I have used my optical drive about 10-12 times. Maybe not too much but I am also not using the machine all the time either thanks to my iPhone allowing me to check mail/facebook/websites easily.

I actually prefer to buy Cds. I can play them in the car on the way home from the brick & mortar store without needing a transferable device in some digital format. I can play them in my wife's car too. Floppy Drives were not needed as computers had a similar product in a CD burner….the ability to save and burn to a portable device. This may sound like whining but a tiny 1/8" slit is not too big a deal to keep. Or offer on some Minis the option and see how that goes.

BUT as a business I can see where Apple says how do we make sure people buy more from us? Simply make it harder for them not to.

[end rant]
 
Goodbye Mac Mini

Well, i just tested my MBA in closed clamshell config and its perfect. You can put it to sleep and start it up hitting any key. Think ill be getting a maxed out MBA 11 or 13 if the benchmarks are correct then clam shelling that baby!

Mac mini, i say goodbye...you were good to me, now you are a little box thats kinda a laptop and not quite a desktop...

cc
 
Im amazed to hear all the bitchin, the Mac Mini's are fantastic. 1 MacMini + 1 HDTV = Heaven.:apple:

Hmm, Heaven? that strongly depends on your media consumtion. I have a HUGE DVD collection and personaly i don't want any extra boxes or cables sitting openly in my living room so an external drive is not an option.

Secretly i had hoped for a bold move by apple and the introduction of blueray in the mac mini as it would have been THE Mediacenter to beat. Plus all this nonsense about physical media beeing dead (already)...current TVs show awesome quality 3D from bluerays (for example the Samsung ue55d8090) but the bandwidth required for the video plus a decent audiostream is just not available to the average costumer, yet a blueray is.

Personaly I don't care that there will be a reasonable amount fullHD streaming content available in the next few years and the bandwidth (plus the allowed amount of data transfered per month) when it comes to buying something new for the livingroom now...but that's just silly me.

EDIT: Ah and one more thing...
"The ultimate docking station" being a loose cable? give me a break. As much as I love apple peroducts, juli 2011 did not realy impress me.
 
Well, i just tested my MBA in closed clamshell config and its perfect. You can put it to sleep and start it up hitting any key. Think ill be getting a maxed out MBA 11 or 13 if the benchmarks are correct then clam shelling that baby!

But why clamshell it at all ? You lose that extra screen real-estate that way! I just go dual-monitor when I plug it into an external.
 
I can't even remember the last time I installed software with an optical drive. I guess Snow Leopard, but other than that, it was years ago. Everything has been digital download for a long time now. Games, pro software, utilities, little tools, it's all digital download. Mac software has been on the forefront of this, due to the whole physical-stores-not-putting-Mac-software-on-their-shelves thing, the plethora of POSIX freeware ported over ever since OS X, and the massive amount of open source stuff. The PC gaming world has been also going heavily into digital download for a while now too. Look at Steam, EA, Activision Blizzard.

I do use DVDs, I'll admit, but only for movies from my collection. I never really bought into the whole iTMS video download thing. It's been really just inertia, though, and I have started to consider non-physical media for my movie purchases. TV, and a lot of movies too, I can get from streams, like Netflix, Hulu, and so on. There's really nothing stopping me from ripping all those DVDs I have, anyway. With storage capacities increasing all the time, I could probably fit everything I have on one hard drive now. Or, I might just trade up to higher quality digital download versions. It's probably time anyway.

People saying that there's no real alternative to DVDs yet aren't really paying much attention. It's the internet, folks ;).

When they killed the floppy drive, I bought a USB floppy drive. I used it 20 times over the next year and then never had to again after that. Now it's the CD and DVD's turn, simple as that. Absolutely there are people who need to use them, still, but there is absolutely nothing stopping them from using an external box. They make them quite small and quite cheap. Put it on top, with a small cable. No clutter.

Was I a little surprised, maybe even a little disappointed? Yeah, kind of. Then I actually thought about it some more. I would love if if there was some new optical media that was better, smaller, and they could have a tiny drive for it, but there is no such technology. The sci fi future of miniature disks or wafers being passed around is never going to happen. The cloud is the future. Cliche, but there's every indication that it's true.
 
I'm not surprised at all by my disappointment in this release.

With this "discrete graphics" chip (hah) all hopes of a modest, desktop-class, headless Mac are now gone.

Time to upgrade the ol' xHack, I guess.

-Clive
 
Well, i just tested my MBA in closed clamshell config and its perfect. You can put it to sleep and start it up hitting any key. Think ill be getting a maxed out MBA 11 or 13 if the benchmarks are correct then clam shelling that baby!

Mac mini, i say goodbye...you were good to me, now you are a little box thats kinda a laptop and not quite a desktop...

cc

In a perfect world, I would have a quad-core Mac Mini Server as my desktop machine, and and a fully loaded 13" MBA.
 
As I've mentioned before, I think that the most popular TBolt peripheral will be a little box with two to four eSATA ports (PM capable), four to six USB 3.0 ports, and a gigabit ethernet. Those would fly off the shelves like hotcakes. (and I'm only suggesting that the TBolt display would have been a better docking station with eSATA and USB 3.0 ports)

Hopefully some 3rd party manufacturer hears our prays. :)



Remember that we're talking about Apple here, which only has one limited production model with a standard PCIe graphics capability. Everything else is soldered to the mobo, integrated, or on obscure daughtercards. How can you make any argument about worrying over the GPU in the display, when you'd have to throw away the entire Apple computer if you get tired of the GPU?

The display could have something that's far, far faster than Intel HD 3000 - or even low end and mid-range discrete mobile GPUs. If your computer has a faster GPU, then you use the display as a DisplayPort monitor and ignore the GPU in the monitor.

Anyway, there's no reason that the display couldn't have a PCIe x16 connector inside, and take any GPU that fits the power envelope and the case. Even if it were constrained to a low-profile card with an mDP - there would be lots of options before too long.

Though the concept of a GPU would be great in display+dock as we have here, you have to remember that it would push the price tag that much higher. Meaning out of reach for many MacMini and MBA/Pro users. Might appeal to the deep pockets of MP users though. Plus you have to factor in heat from the GPU itself, it might be a non-issue if designed correctly. However can you imagine the complaints :apple: will be receiving from its customers. It would complicate a product that is meant to be simple and universal.

Adding a GPU, what next a ULV CPU and what we have here is the iMac revision X. Its quite clear that :apple: is trying to dissemble the iMac into the TB ACD and MacMini, MBA/Pro options. As the iMac cannot break anymore industrial designs from here on end. Making it larger, thinner, lighter its all marketing of sex appeal that will grow stale from the rehashed iMac flat. At least we should be grateful to some degree that they have added some more ports to the ACD. :)



But Apple are calling it the "ultimate dock", when it's really nothing more than a display with the same features as $150 port replicator.

I'm trying to describe a TBolt display that would be the "ultimate dock".

Come on now Shaw you and I know better than that. Its :apple: marketing BS, it might be the "Ultimate Dock" available for the Mac, which is a twisted truth, however its a spin similar to the previous spins on marketing they have used and had to remove by law. Remember the "Slimmest Portable" that claim was only made for about a week before it was changed as Sony offered something slimmer. There were other claims in the past as well, no point in bring it up.



And what puzzles me is that Apple and its fans can obsess over an extra mm of thickness, or the color of the keys - yet have no problems over the idea of buying this "work of art" and surrounding it with a rat's nest of cables and external peripherals to replace the components that were stripped out to save that mm.

Sex appeal marketing for thinest, lightest, so on, nothing more. The TB ACD would cause a "rats nest" no more than the Sony Dock. Though AirPlay, UPnP, DLNA all seem promising. The simple truth is that the speed is just no up to par when compared to wires. Again its all marketing and some people would rather spend X amount more on a Sexy ACD then a comparable Dell Display. Seems Steve Jobs RFD has a range unheard of compared to they last financial call. Must be an antenna with a big power boost. :D



What's the story with some NAS boxes not working with Lion? (Serious question, what is the issue?)

Using Lion GM for about 2 weeks now and no problems interacting with the Linux NAS. Minor Flash issues that I found a work around, however nothing major. I am sure it will get fixed in the coming months. DLNA works like a charm so does TM and FTP.

Like you I also really wanted a MiniMac Pro Tower, however I gave up the wait and found something better for cheaper and less restrictive. Sure its not running Mac OS X, however I do not see the need as it handles everything else rather well including being a mail server, and a web host.

As a consumer, its your choice to not buy everything :apple: throws at you. I feel most of the products :apple: sells has sex appeal, however since it does not fit within my requirements I will purchase something comparable if not better. TC, AirPort Extreme/Express, iMac another waste of money.

With the release of this "Ultimate Dock" It seems like a short lived revised product as once IvyBridge supports USB 3.0, all the other hardware is basically forced to support it, this TB ACD will need a revision. :D


In a perfect world, I would have a quad-core Mac Mini Server as my desktop machine, and and a fully loaded 13" MBA.

In a perfect world :apple: would have the ability to install a 3.5" HDD in the MacMini, however that will not jive with marketing as it cannot claim to use less power than a CFL Bulb. ;)


I'm not surprised at all by my disappointment in this release.

With this "discrete graphics" chip (hah) all hopes of a modest, desktop-class, headless Mac are now gone.

Time to upgrade the ol' xHack, I guess.

-Clive

Well at least the MacMin now comes with discreet GPU, better than integrated. :p

The only headless Mac, I loved was the G4 Cube, however the market sales called it a fail and :apple: admitted it. :apple: might shrink the MP a little to the point of a Mini MacPro, I guess. ;)
 
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I want the 2.7 i7 with AMD Radeon graphics.
It's a pity they didn't put the Quad-Core i7 with the AMD Radeon together. But i think it's a heat issue.
 
I really don't see why people are so in favor of ditching optical drives. Theres countless legitimate reasons to still want an optical drive and why it should still be included, especially given Apple's inflated pricing.

Let's talk about home movies and pictures. The best way to share the video you shot of a family member's birthday party or wedding is by burning it to optical disc that can play in a DVD player, then burning multiple copies to give to everyone. Not everyone wants to fire up youtube and wait for it to slowly load on their tiny computer screen. Same with pictures. One of the neat things about iPhoto is the ability to export slideshows as a video, which can then be burned to optical disc. Or edited into other video using iMovie, which can then be burned to disc. Again, not everyone wants to watch video on youtube huddled around a computer screen.

My family transfers everything via USB thumb drives or VPN, whether you're talking Windows XP/7, OS X, or Linux (my main computer is a Linux box).

And what about movies? College students, one of Apple's biggest markets, use their computers as their primary source of entertainment. iTunes rentals don't even come close to the quality of DVD, not even the overly compressed 720p "HD" movies. And iTunes rentals and purchases are significantly more expensive than DVD (and blu-ray) rentals and purchases.

While iTunes rentals aren't as good as Blu-ray, they are good enough for many. Netflix is also exceedingly popular for streaming. Logically one would assume that if Blu-rays or DVD's are so important for the individual, they would buy a computer suitable for their needs, which in this case excludes the Mac Mini or Air.

Backing up data? DVD-Rs are still the cheapest per gigabyte method of backup or transferring data. High quality blank DVD-Rs can be had for as little as 10 to 15 cents each. Thats 438GB of data for about $15. Where else can you find that amount of storage for so cheap? Some people say "Flash drives", yeah but they're not nearly as cheap. Plus if I need to make some copies of files for someone, I don't need to ever have to worry about saying "you know that flash drive I gave you? Yeah, can I have it back" since CD-R and DVD-R media is basically meant to be given away.

Why would you possibly want to back up your data to DVD-R, when they're a max of 8.5GB? A 500GB drive that's bus-powered is like $70. And you can back up all at once, not shuffling disks.

Not that I back up to that anyway; I've got a NAS which replicates off-site to Amazon S3.

I'm not saying they should have gotten rid of optical drives. But I also don't think it's the end of the world, either. I personally would rather have two HD's/SSD's than a single data drive and an optical.

But that's just me.
 
In a perfect world, I would have a quad-core Mac Mini Server as my desktop machine, and and a fully loaded 13" MBA.

Heck yea. I ordered the server, and my wife needs a new 13" MBA to replace her c2d black macbook. She just doesn't know it yet.:p

p.s. I will use the backlit screen to sell her on it.:D
 
Heck yea. I ordered the server, and my wife needs a new 13" MBA to replace her c2d black macbook. She just doesn't know it yet.:p

p.s. I will use the backlit screen to sell her on it.:D

If that does not work out for her, either get ready to sleep on the couch or get handed divorce papers. ;) :D


My family transfers everything via USB thumb drives or VPN, whether you're talking Windows XP/7, OS X, or Linux (my main computer is a Linux box).



While iTunes rentals aren't as good as Blu-ray, they are good enough for many. Netflix is also exceedingly popular for streaming. Logically one would assume that if Blu-rays or DVD's are so important for the individual, they would buy a computer suitable for their needs, which in this case excludes the Mac Mini or Air.



Why would you possibly want to back up your data to DVD-R, when they're a max of 8.5GB? A 500GB drive that's bus-powered is like $70. And you can back up all at once, not shuffling disks.

Not that I back up to that anyway; I've got a NAS which replicates off-site to Amazon S3.

I'm not saying they should have gotten rid of optical drives. But I also don't think it's the end of the world, either. I personally would rather have two HD's/SSD's than a single data drive and an optical.

But that's just me.


Cannot agree with you more. My family uses USB Flash Drives, external HDD or FTP to NAS. I have a stack of 8.5GB discs that are collecting dust. I use my iPhone to either listen to music on the device or stream from my NAS. :)
 
I have an admission of guilt to make...

I still have an external USB floppy drive for one of my Macs! LOL

I don't use it hardly ever though, but I did use it during the Mac transition stage from floppy to optical and I recently used it to transfer something from an old PC to my Mac. Will I use it again? Doubtful.

But what will I use to replace the optical now for DVDs and CDs? The Cloud?

Maybe in 10 years I will trust the cloud, but I personally want to OWN my STUFF!

PS: What's the deal with this MacRumors.com bug where you get this warning message that you previously signed in and can't post and have to go back? CRAZY! Fix it MacRumors. I know my IP address hasn't changed, so I see no reason for such a warning message just because I walked away from my computer while typing a post. GEEZ.
 
I'm still using a G4 Mini that I purchased in 2005 or thereabouts. The only thing that isn't still running like a charm is the SuperDrive, that started to get flakey a couple of years after I bought it. I've been surviving nicely with an external USB optical drive since then.

I've been looking to refresh and was waiting for this new release of the Mini to pull the trigger. While I think the lack of an optical drive is a definite 'minus', there's more than enough there for me, and having to use a separate box for the optical drive is something I'll be able to deal with. If the quality issues I experience with the SuperDrive weren't just a freak occurrence, then maybe I come out ahead.
 
Cannot agree with you more. My family uses USB Flash Drives, external HDD or FTP to NAS. I have a stack of 8.5GB discs that are collecting dust. I use my iPhone to either listen to music on the device or stream from my NAS. :)

I don't back up anything to DVD except movies or videos.

But I also want to be able to play my vast collection of DVDs/CDs.

Steve Jobs iTUNES model was that people want to own their music.

Now he's changed his mind, go figure.

V might be entranced by the Pied Piper's Reality Distortion Field, but I'm not buying it and I don't think consumers will either.

This is a geek crowd here, they will buy everything.

Consumers won't. It's a significant LOSS of functionality for the Mac Mini and people will notice.

Steve Jobs screwed this one up big time. :(
 
I'm still using a G4 Mini that I purchased in 2005 or thereabouts. The only thing that isn't still running like a charm is the SuperDrive, that started to get flakey a couple of years after I bought it. I've been surviving nicely with an external USB optical drive since then.

I've been looking to refresh and was waiting for this new release of the Mini to pull the trigger. While I think the lack of an optical drive is a definite 'minus', there's more than enough there for me, and having to use a separate box for the optical drive is something I'll be able to deal with. If the quality issues I experience with the SuperDrive weren't just a freak occurrence, then maybe I come out ahead.

Buy a SuperDrive on Ebay and replace it, very simple, cheap.

Steve Jobs professes to promote less cables and added junk, but yet he's forcing consumers to do exactly THAT! HAHA!

Where's the logic here?
 
Well at least the MacMin now comes with discreet GPU, better than integrated. :p

The only headless Mac, I loved was the G4 Cube, however the market sales called it a fail and :apple: admitted it. :apple: might shrink the MP a little to the point of a Mini MacPro, I guess. ;)

The MacMini (and iMac, for that matter) are laptops disguised as desktops. i5 CPUs, and mobile, weak GPUs. I'm not a hard-core gamer by any means, but I can definitely distinguish the performance difference between mobile-grade hardware and desktop-grade hardware.

For one, it's non-upgradeable. Sure, 95% of the population will never upgrade a video card, but those who do are S.O.L. on the Mac. No, the MacPro (server-class hardware, HUUUUUUGE chassis, ridiculous price tag) is not an option.

There's a happy medium where we prosumers live, and we're deliberately being ignored so that Apple can maintain their idiot-friendly, profit-margin-laden, product line-up... filled with integrated displays and EXPENSIVE, short-lived mobile-grade components.

I'd jump on a MacPro Mini in a heartbeat, buddy, but it ain't gonna happen. I've been barking up that tree since the G5s were in style... the day Apple stopped offering sub $2k towers. But it's all about the profit, baby.

Sorry if I sound cynical, but I've been without a Apple-branded hardware configuration for so long now that I've completely forgotten the joy of buying a new Mac.

Sadness abounds.

What I wouldn't give to hear the start-up chime of a Mac, and not the soulless beep of my high-maintenance Hackintosh. :( *sigh*

-Clive
 
I should have known not to buy a white macbook yesterday!!!!!!!!!:mad::apple::mad::apple::mad::apple::eek:

You have a 15 day return policy at the Apple Store online and in stores, so depending on where you bought it, there's no trouble.

Best Buy also allows returns, as do most other retailers. The worst you'd have to deal with is a restocking fee, but if it's that important, then pay it and get yourself an Air or a MBPro.
 
Hmm, Heaven? that strongly depends on your media consumtion. I have a HUGE DVD collection and personaly i don't want any extra boxes or cables sitting openly in my living room so an external drive is not an option.

Secretly i had hoped for a bold move by apple and the introduction of blueray in the mac mini as it would have been THE Mediacenter to beat. Plus all this nonsense about physical media beeing dead (already)...current TVs show awesome quality 3D from bluerays (for example the Samsung ue55d8090) but the bandwidth required for the video plus a decent audiostream is just not available to the average costumer, yet a blueray is.

Personaly I don't care that there will be a reasonable amount fullHD streaming content available in the next few years and the bandwidth (plus the allowed amount of data transfered per month) when it comes to buying something new for the livingroom now...but that's just silly me.

EDIT: Ah and one more thing...
"The ultimate docking station" being a loose cable? give me a break. As much as I love apple peroducts, juli 2011 did not realy impress me.

In my mind, I'm not sure why people are actually using physical DVDs anymore. The minute I get a DVD or Blu-Ray, I rip it to a HDD, convert it into any number of files, and then access it much easier from any device I have. The entire workflow takes less than 60 seconds to set up and then I leave it for an hour or two and it does all the work for me.

I can stream it to my Popcorn Hour, Mac Mini, iPad and iPhone (AirVideo is awesome), iMac, etc.

Not only do DVDs take up too much space, but they're only playable on one device at a time.

I'm extremely happy they ditched the drive. It makes the Mini look better. It's not like they abandoned USB people!
 
simple answer

In my mind, I'm not sure why people are actually using physical DVDs anymore. The minute I get a DVD or Blu-Ray, I rip it to a HDD, convert it into any number of files, and then access it much easier from any device I have.

You have a physical DVD in your workflow - explain how you accomplish that task without either a BD/DVD drive or a physical BD/DVD disc.
 
You have a physical DVD in your workflow - explain how you accomplish that task without either a BD/DVD drive or a physical BD/DVD disc.

Perhaps you should read his post in the context of the post he was replying too. (Someone not wanting extra box and cable of a DVD drive in his entertainment center).

The best part was the guy has no problem with keeping mountains of pointless plastic disks around his entertainment center.
 
V might be entranced by the Pied Piper's Reality Distortion Field, but I'm not buying it and I don't think consumers will either.

Actually I have never been sucked into Steve's RDF. I simply stopped using the SuperDrive shortly after SL release that I migrated to external HDD and a NAS. I have been doing this for years even before the cloud was mentioned in any form by any tech company. Some people (including me) love the convenience and flexibility that a HDD attached to a modem/router and a NAS offers. I do not trust the cloud to any company at present, this is why I have adopted a personal cloud instead. :)

As another member, I rip all my DVD/CD onto my MBP or acquire via Amazon. No point including ODD when you can use AirDrive or whatever :apple: calls it.

When amazon, google, and :apple: announced they cloud strategy, I thought to myself, "finally." ;)

In another year or so I do not see myself purchasing an iMac, MBP or MP. I might just be better off with an iPad and MBA option. If I require any heavy lifting I will simply have a linux box doing the job. :D
 
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