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Apple Releases Security Update 2004-09-07
- Thread starter Hemingray
- Start date
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Webmasters
I just wish more and more webmasters would look at their pages in other browsers to see how they load (or don't load). But because every one thinks everyone out there is using IE they don't.
Note: I do not know what the stats are on what browser in lead. Just making a note of what I have seen in some of the ISPs I've worked for in the past.
Hugh
I just wish more and more webmasters would look at their pages in other browsers to see how they load (or don't load). But because every one thinks everyone out there is using IE they don't.
Note: I do not know what the stats are on what browser in lead. Just making a note of what I have seen in some of the ISPs I've worked for in the past.
Hugh
jsw said:
Apple Hobo said:If you paid for Safari, you got ripped off.
I think he means that he payed for OS X which entitles him to use Safari (so he is in essence paying for Safari).
The bottom line is, they fixed a security/rendering flaw in safari that allowed this improperly scripted menu system to run. IE is generally viewed as forgiving to poor code, this is one of my big pet peeves, they are just promoting non-standards code, which is why pages like these are now not appearing correctly.
For those having problems, go to Accelerate Your Mac, as mentioned. They have some fixes and advice.
davecuse said:
I am not assigning fault... I don't care and it does not get me anywhere.
I am assigning responsibility to make it work... and I am assigning it to Apple.
You can spread blame however you like... but the company that makes it works is the one that will get the business.... regardless of who is at fault.
Like it or not... it is apples job to make Safari robust enough to work
ioinc said:
the idea is that only improperly coded sites don't load in safari. they might work in IE since IE is so forgiving of bad code. however, changing safari to not follow the rules isn't entirely a good thing, even if it lets less well written web sites load up. every site that has been coded properly can load up. that is the responsibility of those web site creators, not safari.
I have the ability to contact and speak to the authors of the knowledgebase, and they are currently investigating as to the causes of the problems with web browsing after the security update. They know that websites designed with an older version of OpenCube software break with the latest Security Update, and that a new version of OpenCube that software should fix that problem for those webmasters who use it. Contact the webmasters whose sites break with Safari and let them know an update to OpenCube is imminent if not already released, and that they should apply it for better compatibility with web browsers. Meanwhile, you can change your User Agent with Safari Enhancer's enabling of the Debug menu to another browser while using Safari and browsing those websites. Safari Enhancer can be downloaded here:
http://www.lordofthecows.com/safari_enhancer.php
http://www.lordofthecows.com/safari_enhancer.php
pounce said:
You can debate it all you like, but people will eventually move to browsers that work fastest with the most sites.
If there is another browser that can load more sites than Safari.... regardless of fault or responsability... that is a plus for that browser over safari.
ioinc said:
Personally I am glad that Safari has fixed this flaw, if sites are broken it is now going to be painfully apparent to the webmaster, forcing them to use standards compliant code. If more websites are coded properly it will raise awareness of accessibility needs.
It's a win win situation, so way to go out for pointing out glaring flaws in design, force them to make their sites work properly with added market share. I hope that Mozilla creates a similar fix to raise the number of user affected. Cut the IE specific crap already.
ioinc said:
You have an incorrect view of the Internet. Browsers do not work on sites, sites work on browsers. Web authors create websites, and they can choose to be lazy and only worry about one browser, or try to stick to standards and ensure their site will work on more than one browser - but it's their choice, and their responsibility if they work for an organization whose site should be usable by lots of people.
It's like writing software for different Operating Systems. You can write for Windows and leave it at that because most people use Windows, or your company can get more business by supporting Mac OS X and Linux... Of course, it will cost them more to support multiple OSes, and maybe it's not worth it to them.
If the next version of Intuit's Quicken didn't work correctly on Windows XP, it's up to Intuit to make sure they fix it.
Sure, it's possible that Safari could have a bug (or bugs) such that it improperly interprets some standard web code - but you wouldn't know that just by finding a site that doesn't work. Your first thought with any standards-compliant web browser should be "Hey, this site doesn't work, I'm going to contact the site owners and let them know they may have an error in their code" just like you would contact Quicken if you found a bug in *their* software.
Then the site owners might discover their code is correct and complain to Apple, or tell you to complain to Apple - that's fine. But the first assumption should be that the website running on the browser is broken, not that the browser running it is broken.
OK, was that a bowling ball I just heard drop or did the average IQ on these boards drop around 100 points? Microsoft have a browser that hates PNG files, which are more than slightly common. It also throws up errors on the most basic of pages. Sure, Safari sometimes has glitches, but IE is pretty much the same. The difference is, Safari displays all the pictures and is only a few years old.
PNG. Remember that. IE doesn't like PNG. Makes the bugs in Safari look like ants before a hippo.
Rich::
PNG. Remember that. IE doesn't like PNG. Makes the bugs in Safari look like ants before a hippo.
Rich::
davecuse said:
unfortunately life does not work that way... most people will either not use the site or, if they need/want it badly enough, will download a browser that the site can load into.
The question is, does apple want to make their browser more robust and give it the ability to load sites that are poorly written or not.
for a company that needs to gain market share, not lose it the answer is clear. Make your product strong enough to overcome the deficiencies others may have.
davecuse said:
Who will be aware if no one tells them? Web developers don't always test for every browser, esp. if their development tools don't care about Safari or Mozilla browsers. I've been on websites that did not work correctly and sent feedback to the webmaster, only to be told that everything works fine in Internet Exploder.
There are some government agencies and organizations that prohibit use of Internet Explorer because of security concerns. Perhaps that will help convince businesses that there is more to life than Internet Explorer as they develop and test their web sites.
That's true. UK residents have been advised to use alternative browsers, such as Opera and Netscape.
Rich::
Rich::
bousozoku said:
I email webmasters links to the W3 validator all the time letting them know if their site does not work properly in certain browsers, I think some admins are starting to get the message. CompUSA obviously got the message that their site was improperly coded.
In regards to making browsers "more robust" this is a fallacy, there are a set of standards set forth by the W3 that will allow any page to be displayed properly in any browser. In addition to being cross browser compliant it will allow for adaptive software to read pages properly. The bottom line is that the web has a clearly defined purpose, it is a medium of information exchange not an advertisement. Information in this medium should be made freely available anyway that the user wants to access it.
davecuse said:
EXACTLY!
CompUSA's web page was broke in Safari thanks to this fix. I then went through to the feedback page and told them what was wrong. they e-mailed me back that they'd check into and in LESS then a day it was fixed (maybe I was nto the only one). Apple fixed a bug that allowed the page to work. That bug needed to be fixed. Microsoft on the other hand let's all kinds of crap through. That would include all those exploits. I would rather have the following:
1. A browser that follows standards or at least tries to. Safari does this very well.
2. The Webmasters to design pages that work on all browsers. Come on people...it's NOT that hard!
3. Having anything say sorry will only work in IE or on Windows will send me TO ANOTHER COMPANY!
4. Making Apple's browser load and render incorrectly coded web pages is something noone wants. Trust me. It also doesn't make the browser more "robust". You want ActiveX plugin's to work? You want the same damn thing poor Windows users have to put up with day in and day out...then just use Windows....leave activex outta my Mac. I don't want spyware and the like being dropped on my machine.
Again, webmasters should check. I don't care if you use frontpage....you should still check. I don't care if you use Windows, PLEASE check!
Use the contact link folks
Looks like the same thing that we saw on the other sites. Just use the contact button and inform them!
mo0805 said:
Looks like the same thing that we saw on the other sites. Just use the contact button and inform them!