Apple Releases Xcode 4 to Developers, Coming Soon to Mac App Store for $4.99

[kalsta]

Oh gosh, pull the other heartstring. These underprivileged kids of which you speak — presumably they already have Macs on which to program? Presumably they also have parents or carers with credit cards?

Kalsta, do you share this account or are you just schizo? Back in post #418 you said:

Yep. It's sad alright.

Be thankful you live in a country where you can earn that much in less time than it takes to type a lengthy complaint on MacRumours. The other half of the world isn't so lucky.

And now you're complaining about someone pulling a heartstring? WTF?

Grr… It's posts like yours that really tempt me to break certain forum rules relating to etiquette and language. But I shall restrain myself and explain things for you, since you're a 'newbie'…

The first comment uses something called sarcasm in reference to 'underprivileged kids'. If they have a Mac capable of running Xcode 4, they can certainly afford $5 (or else Mumsy can).

You see, there really is another world out there Blackheadr… where families live on a few dollars a day, and struggle just to survive. For some reason it just pisses me off to see spoilt white American teenagers crying poor because they can't get something for free. I've no idea why.

 

[Surreal]

It's all in there locally for me. Make sure you downloaded the documentation, look in Xcode preferences.

P.S. "After updating to Xcode4, does no one else not have syntax highlighting in quick look anymore?"
No one else?

What they DID seem get rid of are PDFs.

 

[Blakadher]

Grr… It's posts like yours that really tempt me to break certain forum rules relating to etiquette and language. But I shall restrain myself and explain things for you, since you're a 'newbie'…

The first comment uses something called sarcasm in reference to 'underprivileged kids'. If they have a Mac capable of running Xcode 4, they can certainly afford $5 (or else Mumsy can).

You see, there really is another world out there Blackheadr… where families live on a few dollars a day, and struggle just to survive. For some reason it just pisses me off to see spoilt white American teenagers crying poor because they can't get something for free. I've no idea why.

Klatsa, thanks for taking a break from your arguing on the internet to explain your masterful use of sarcasm.

Signed,
A humble newbie learning from the master debaters of the MacRumors forums

 

[Stuke]

Delete "Install Xcode" ???

anyone know if i can safely delete the "install xcode" package thats in my applications folder? just concerned it might affect the appstores ability to check for updates in the future if I do. Its 4gb off wasted space.

Anyone know if we can delete this installer app (after installing Xcode 4 in the Developer folder)? Seems like a waste of space unless you have problems (like I did) installing Xcode purchased from MAS. But once through that un-Apple-like adventure, do you think we can delete it; or, will the MAS not recognize that we bought it and not offer us the free upgrades in the future?

Many thanks.

 

[lfc]

Anyone know if we can delete this installer app (after installing Xcode 4 in the Developer folder)? Seems like a waste of space unless you have problems (like I did) installing Xcode purchased from MAS. But once through that un-Apple-like adventure, do you think we can delete it; or, will the MAS not recognize that we bought it and not offer us the free upgrades in the future?

Many thanks.

MAS keeps track of your purchases through your account. So anything you buy you can download again as much times as you want and never ever have to pay for it again.
Also, deleting the installer shouldn't matter at all. But if your worried then just rename it to something like "nothing.txt" and see if anything goes wrong (it wont though)

 

[kaleb.mckale]

it's worth pointing out that gcc and llvm/clang/lldb are updated for Xcode 4, so Xcode 3 now has the "old" versions. If you want a binary version of Apple's latest open-source tools, you've got a bit of a road ahead of you to download and build them from source - it's not trivial.

Um...Fink???

So I guess you only need GCC then. which is free.
As far as IDE goes, some say vi is the best IDE ever. again free.

Or Emacs, which of course has several nice GUI versions, including Aquamacs

GCC is not updated in XCode 4. It's still version 4.2, so you can keep using the gcc that comes with XCode 3.

And yet it doesn't matter because you can always update your version of GCC or Clang using fink.

If this is indeed true, wouldn't you look back at this whole $5 thing as a unnecessary?

Wasn't charging for FaceTime unnecessary? Wasn't Family licenses unnecessary for multiple computers now that one only has to purchase once for all their authenticated computers?

There is no disconnect. We only need the compiler, we don't need the IDE. So we are forced to pay for something we don't need to need, where is the logic in that? And if they indeed start charging for the compiler toolchain, it would be a punch in the face to all the scientific and open-source community.

But they aren't, and you can use the same software tools the rest of us in the scientific and open-source community use such as Fink.

It's just that I would need a credit card to purchase xcode, and I have all the m$ tools (developer, windoze licenses even for windoze server) for free since I'm a student.

As has been pointed out mind-numbingly over and over is that you don't NEED Xcode 4 to do coding. It's merely a new IDE. The software that does all the work is still available for free, and you can take advantage of it by starting with the free copy of Xcode 3 and using a package manager like Fink to update to the compiler versions, etc. that you need.

"Developers" who can't code without an IDE. Sheez!

 

[kaleb.mckale]

AFAIK, Apple does not offer a compiler-only download. And since it uses heavily modified GCC, its not so easy to install the "original" GCC. At least they should provide a free GCC+Clang download without the IDE.

I really don't get this move. Lots of my colleagues in the university are non-programmers but rely on Apple developer tools to install certain open-source software. I myself use Xcode to develop small tools for our projects, I do not distribute commercial applications nor do I indent to do so. While 5$ is not much, its pretty annoying still.

Use Xcode 3 and then Fink to update the software to the current versions.

 

[kaleb.mckale]

I believe that many here do not get the main point.

Its true, 5$ is not much for the IDE.

Still, there are lots of people that are not interested in the IDE at all. My research team (linguists) does a lots of statistics and we rely on the compiler to build a bunch of optimized open-source tools. So far, the only reasonable way to get the compiler was to install the free Xcode. Installing the vanilla GCC on Mac is a horrible mess, because Apple uses a highly modified version thereof. Am I supposed to tell to my colleagues that they have to pay Apple 5$ to get the new compiler? This is simply ridiculous!

At least they should provide a free developer tools package (without the IDE), which includes the latest compilers. True, you can get the Xcode 3 with GCC for free. But, it seems that Clang is the future of the mac platform and there is currently no way to get the Apple-customized version for free. This is absurd and unheard of. Even on windows the base developer toolset (compiler, linker etc.) are free!

As a member of a research team, I'm really surprised that you're not aware that you can upgrade your gcc version through Fink without the usage of Xcode 4. This does include access to the correct version of Clang (which you could download yourself for free here: http://llvm.org/releases/download.html
But fink will do the installation for you.

So, exactly what are you losing out on?

 

[kaleb.mckale]

Chances are 10.7 will be distributed via the Mac AppStore. Chances are also that the 'server tools' will be an additional charge, also via the App Store.

And you would be correct! Good job for predicting the future!

If you're already familiar with LLVM and GCC you know how to build from source. I've got llvm-trunk on OS X 10.5 and Debian Linux building nightly.

Or just use Fink or Macports

Like I said, you can compile them yourself using gcc 4.2.1 included in XCode 3 package, which is free.

It was always the case and it still is.

Although, getting newer versions of gcc to work properly under OS X is a pain in the ass.

Which is why we let Fink do the dirty work for us.

XCode (and gcc) isn't installed by default. Again:

What would be the point of specifically choosing to not install Xcode 3 which would give you exactly what you need? I suppose another way would be to find someone who has a similar architecture to compile and build a copy of gcc for you and then put it on your system. But why would you do that?

Last time I tried was a year ago, gcc 4.5 I think, and I couldn't get it to work. But then again, I used macports.

Did you change the $PATH in your .profile config file? This was a common mistake we dealt with when first implementing mac ports.

That's the point! Developers who use Macs as user-friendly Unix boxes often don't want to download and install 4GB of XCode when they only need a functioning toolchain.

(1) Install Xcode 3 from disc. (2) Delete the Xcode application. (3) Install Fink and update to your heart's content.

just try tarball

however you should probably preinstall some libraries, like gmp or mpfr
but you can build them very easily

ewwwww....why? Just use Fink.

Xcode's no longer free? Visual Studio and Eclipse are free, I'll just go back to the PC when my iMac dies.

Thanks Apple!

You could also use Eclipse on your Mac.

Hmmm... we'll have to see how this plays out.

I'm head of a department of people (~30ish) who all use Macs to develop massively parallel scientific simulation software. All of our software is eventually run on large (>100,000 processor) linux clusters... so we are not actually developing Mac software.... just using Macs to develop UNIX software. None of us actually even open "XCode" itself... just use the libraries and compilers installed from the command line (we usually edit in Emacs, Vim or Eclipse).

That said... you have to have XCode installed to get access to compilers for OSX. So even though we do not develop "Mac" software we need XCode. It would be pretty stupid to sign everyone in my department up as a Mac developer... so I'm not sure what's going to happen here.

I suspect that they will back off of this going forward... or maybe it will be included with Lion so it won't be a big deal. We'll have to wait and see.

I hope they provide a separate (free) packages that includes all of the compilers without the XCode front end for those that don't need it.

For now XCode3 is working... so we won't be switching soon...

As the head of a department of people (~30ish) who all use Macs to develop massively parallel scientific simulation software you should be well aware of Fink and the ability to upgrade the compilers, etc. without waiting for Apple to release them packaged with Xcode.

I was a mere graduate student who had never worked with a UNIX environment before, and even I could figure out how to get the versions of the software and compilers I needed to do my Scientific Computing work. Sheez!

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I find it really annoying that you can't download Xcode 4 unless you're on a Mac that has Snow Leopard installed.

I haven't got broadband internet at home (I rent, can't get ADSL so I only have 3G with lowly quota) and at work I'm forced to use a Windows PC. We managed to get some time on an iMac, but that only has Mac OS X Leopard so no luck there either.

Very frustrating.

You won't be able to upgrade to Lion either without first installing Snow Leopard.

I'm saying again, this is the first time Apple is releasing a major revision of XCode ahead of its accompanied OS.

And it's also the first time, Apple is releasing a major XCode revision, which works with the old OS, in this case 10.6.

And that's what the fee is for, for the time being.

Until we know whether 10.7 includes XCode 4.1 for free, there's no point of arguing.

For all we know, this can be Apple being generous, by allowing the old OS user base to use the new XCode for a small fee, which they've never done before.

You keep it up! You're quite the trooper! I'm already exhausted at repeating myself over and over. You're doing a good job!

Sorry but I was trying to read through this thread but the first few pages were mostly about people whining about 5 bucks. So are all 20 pages pretty much that or did I miss something else?

That's mostly it and some of us repeating over and over the obvious that some still seem to miss.

 

[kaleb.mckale]

It should hopefully be included with any new machine once Lion comes out, and also the DVD version of Lion as I doubt they'll switch to online only this early. The downloadable version of Lion from the Mac App Store (if that actually happens) may not include it though since XCode is on the store already.

That's what I'm going to do, wait for Lion and buy the DVD. XCode 3 is no less usable than before, and I'm in no hurry for the XCode 4 features really.

You on the other hand are not so good at predicting the future since Lion will only be distributed through the Mac App Store.

So I'm a student. One with absolutely no way to get access to a credit card or debit card of any sort.

Throw me a suggestion.

I call B.S. So you don't have a bank account or a parent who has a bank account?

[EDIT] I retract my statement based on later information.

I understand that - but in reality, the vast majority of people wouldn't bother, especially if you needed to do this via XCode - its too long winded / technical for the masses.

In reality, you *can* distribute your app without Apple knowing - via Cyndia, today. Jail breaking is extremely easy and fairly low risk but the appstore is still doing very well. The vast majority don't bother.

So, having the ability to freely load applications on to IOS via XCode I don't think really have much of an affect on AppStore sales.

What you're also missing is that when you become a developer you sign several disclosure agreements and contracts that disallow you from, say, skirting around AT&T agreements and committing fraud. As a developer, you're buying into a status that says you are a responsible developer who won't do such things. Apple would be liable if they let anyone create, load and sell applications outside of their review if said person were to commit a crime, say fraud.

However, what they do allow is the opportunity for a new developer to simulate their application, and if the application really is good enough for development, the opportunity to sell that app over and over--often making back more than the $99 the developer spent in the first place.

+1 I agree with that. I am stuck with a Googlemail ID, even though I have a MobileMe address. It cannot, apparently, be changed!

C.

I just started using my MobileMe address for my Mac App Store purchases. I wish I could just transfer my history of my gmail account Apple ID too. However, what I was told is that you can start using a different Apple ID anytime you want. Your iOS devices can handle more than one authentication on it at a time.

 

[jsjackso]

What you're also missing is that when you become a developer you sign several disclosure agreements and contracts that disallow you from, say, skirting around AT&T agreements and committing fraud. As a developer, you're buying into a status that says you are a responsible developer who won't do such things. Apple would be liable if they let anyone create, load and sell applications outside of their review if said person were to commit a crime, say fraud.

However, what they do allow is the opportunity for a new developer to simulate their application, and if the application really is good enough for development, the opportunity to sell that app over and over--often making back more than the $99 the developer spent in the first place.

Um, and why is that? Providing an IDE in no way makes a company liable for what people choose to do with the IDE.

 

[NT1440]

Just in case it hasn't been mentioned, Xcode 4 will be FREE for anyone upgraded to Lion.

I just watched one of the WWDC sessions and they stressed that point.

 

[kaleb.mckale]

Um, and why is that? Providing an IDE in no way makes a company liable for what people choose to do with the IDE.

Good thing that is not what I said! If you're curious to what I was replying, please review previous posts. In the future, please make yourself aware of the entire conversation before lashing out. Thank you!

 

[kaleb.mckale]

This just in...Whiners Eat Their Words...

Rants and Whining Endlessly and turns out iBug2 was exactly right. Yet, am I confident that anyone learned anything? I hope so, but I doubt it!

 

[jsjackso]

Good thing that is not what I said! If you're curious to what I was replying, please review previous posts. In the future, please make yourself aware of the entire conversation before lashing out. Thank you!

Hardly lashing out So what was your exact point? Was it that if Apple turned a blind eye to the folks who jailbreak their devices and make their apps available through non-Apple channels they would be somehow liable if the apps did something illegal?