Apple Remains Committed to Launching New Child Safety Features Later This Year

[AndiG]

Debunking fake news, misconceptions and the comforting warmth of the “let’s be enraged by default, shoot then ask” tendency on social networks is a thankless endeavour.

Won’t make you popular, being enraged and triggered is the easier path.

But somebody’s gotta do it.

„While child exploitation is a serious problem, and while efforts to combat it are almost unquestionably well-intentioned, Apple’s proposal introduces a backdoor that threatens to undermine fundamental privacy protections for all users of Apple products.

Apple’s proposed technology works by continuously monitoring photos saved or shared on the user’s iPhone, iPad, or Mac. One system detects if a certain number of objectionable photos is detected in iCloud storage and alerts the authorities. Another notifies a child’s parents if iMessage is used to send or receive photos that a machine learning algorithm considers to contain nudity.

Because both checks are performed on the user’s device, they have the potential to bypass any end-to-end encryption that would otherwise safeguard the user’s privacy.“

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/10/...safety-features-privacy-controversy-explained

Maybe this explanation helps you to understand privacy concerns.

„Instead of adding CSAM scanning to iCloud Photos in the cloud that they own and operate, Apple is compromising the phone that you and I own and operate, without any of us having a say in the matter. Yes, you can turn off iCloud Photos to disable Apple’s scanning, but that is a policy decision; the capability to reach into a user’s phone now exists, and there is nothing an iPhone user can do to get rid of it.”


So if Apple only performs scanning if iCloud photos are enabled, why exactly does Apple perform an on device scanning? Since there is no valid answer to this question, it implicates Apple created a backdoor for on device scanning.

 

[Mac4Mat]

„While child exploitation is a serious problem, and while efforts to combat it are almost unquestionably well-intentioned, Apple’s proposal introduces a backdoor that threatens to undermine fundamental privacy protections for all users of Apple products.

Apple’s proposed technology works by continuously monitoring photos saved or shared on the user’s iPhone, iPad, or Mac. One system detects if a certain number of objectionable photos is detected in iCloud storage and alerts the authorities. Another notifies a child’s parents if iMessage is used to send or receive photos that a machine learning algorithm considers to contain nudity.

Because both checks are performed on the user’s device, they have the potential to bypass any end-to-end encryption that would otherwise safeguard the user’s privacy.“

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/10/...safety-features-privacy-controversy-explained

Maybe this explanation helps you to understand privacy concerns.

„Instead of adding CSAM scanning to iCloud Photos in the cloud that they own and operate, Apple is compromising the phone that you and I own and operate, without any of us having a say in the matter. Yes, you can turn off iCloud Photos to disable Apple’s scanning, but that is a policy decision; the capability to reach into a user’s phone now exists, and there is nothing an iPhone user can do to get rid of it.”


So if Apple only performs scanning if iCloud photos are enabled, why exactly does Apple perform an on device scanning? Since there is no valid answer to this question, it implicates Apple created a backdoor for on device scanning.

It's surveillance in the name of child safety, but the operative word is SURVEILANCE which is an infringement on privacy. Even the concept is BAD for those agencies trying to prevent this abuse of children, as all this would do is ensure those engaged in these activities would go underground, take precautionary tactics leaving everyone else to have surveillance and where APPLE DO NOT HAVE ACCESS to hashes from FBI or any agency and would not have a mandate to use them, let alone in the USA or UK and the only exception is China who I'm sure would whoop with delight at the thought of Apple introducing surveillance under any guise.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Finally Apple is turning the iPhone into a bug with iOS15. Apples made clear that this isn‘t your device, it is Apples device and Apple does what Apple wants to do. If it wants to scan your device for p0rn or secrets, it does. If the FBI or China tells Apple that it wants to piggyback Apples scanning service Apple has no chance to deny.

Apple fooled the people by telling them that is does not want to create a back door in iOS to unlock phones, just because if there would be one, also the evil people will use it. So no one needs a fingerprint or pin anymore to scan an iPhone. Just use Apple(TM)s exclusive content scanning service.

With the roll out of iOS15 millions or billions of people will loose their privacy. So don‘t install it.

Waiting for my Linux phone - seems to be the only way to stay private and secure in 2021.

Just use Android with NetGuard No Root Firewall and kill internet to all Google services, that way apps that depend on them continue working just Google never knows about it

 

[NoIdentity]

There is more to it. I was wondering if this is even possible under GDPR and found a document on this exact topic from February 2021.

disclaimer: I only skimmed through the documents. There is way more in it. For that reason link included

It is a lengthy review of the issue but ut concludes “Based on the analysis in this study, it has been found that the proposed regulation takes major steps forward in the fight against child sexual abuse online and the proliferation of child sexual abuse material online. […] This study finds that the proposed regulation should be amended to add clarity to the text, as well as additional safeguards and remedies for the protection of fundamental human rights.”

Link to the study

In the end this shows a clear political cross-country effort in fighting sexual predators. But it also shows a political motivation to allow such intrusion.

At this point I don’t know if there will truly be enough safeguards to make this technology non intrusive and safe. I am not sure the legislators understand the possible dangers of it. It sure is not cut and dry, but that is what technology dies, obscure borders through complexity. NSA level surveillance seemed fantastical and impossible, yet it was going on.

The question I am left with: Who is behind this push. Which lobbies? Is there monetary, control interest or is this a truly nobel cause? Is it a zealot action by some, without regard for privacy?

 

[giggles]

For all the „not a real problem“ people who fail to understand the practice because they only look at the implementation: It‘s like someone going through your house with glasses that will only give them vision to stuff that they’re supposed to look after. They won‘t see your (currently) legal private stuff but they‘re still constantly sniffing around.
Please do show some understanding for people feeling uncomfortable with this. Saying „go somewhere else then and don‘t complain“ is a poor sign of absence of empathy.

If I had 1€ for every supposedly clever real life analogy that I was subjected to in the last few days, I could already preorder an iPhone 12S Pro Max.

They say “it’s not about the tech” and then they butcher the explanation of what is going on with simplistic real life analogies that always leave out one or more parts of the equation, of the nitty gritty technical reality of how this all works.

It is about the tech. It totally is. You don’t have the license to “shoot, then ask” by giving the fan fiction slippery slope treatment to any tool or feature that has a well defined scope and cryptographically hardened technical implementation.

Enough.

 

[Geert76]

If I had 1€ for every supposedly clever real life analogy that I was subjected to in the last few days, I could already preorder an iPhone 12S Pro Max.

If I had €1 for every unfriendly, aggressive, cursing reply from you to others here to this subject about this scanning method from Apple, I could now have 4 Tesla’s and still got money left for an 12S Max next month

 

[jonnysods]

do you use facebook / google services ? nothing new under the sun simply sad for it to come from Apple.

But they are all in PRISM anyways

Sadly a company I work with use Google for email - I shut off all socials a year ago, not just for privacy reasons.

But I think you are right - they are all part of the same food chain!

 

[makitango]

It is about the tech. It totally is.

If you say so. Others think otherwise. That‘s the point. Different opinions.

If you want to „enough“ others, this shouldn‘t be the place. This place is for voices getting heard.

 

[Shirasaki]

False.
The key is cryptographically broken in an undisclosed number of pieces that can only be pieced back together if multiple matches happen.

This is the current implementation, everything about it should be dismantled and rebuilt to make it work differently. Basically fan fiction at this point.

Backdoor truthers spreading fake news out of their *ss as usual.

Deleting the line you bold, and my point still stands.
I know the implementation. It’s a tool, and the tool WILL be abused.
Deal with the people who uses the tool for nefarious purposes, or don’t build said tool. Apple did nether.

 

[Shirasaki]

It is about the tech. It totally is. You don’t have the license to “shoot, then ask” by giving the fan fiction slippery slope treatment to any tool or feature that has a well defined scope and cryptographically hardened technical implementation.

I don’t care how well designed the tool is. As soon as it exists, it WILL be abused. Easy to use or not doesn’t matter.

 

[giggles]

Deleting the line you bold, and my point still stands.
I know then implementation. It’s a tool, and the tool WILL be abused.
Deal with the people who uses the tool for nefarious purposes, or don’t build said tool. Apple did nether.

You know, that little hyperbolic line that completely poison the whole debate about this by grossly misrepresenting in an easy to spread tweet-fitting hot take what is actually happening. No big deal, amirite?

And people say I should keep my cool after days of this.

 

[giggles]

I don’t care how well designed the tool is. As soon as it exists, it WILL be abused. Easy to use or not doesn’t matter.

“Stuff could happen”.

 

[Shirasaki]

You know, that little hyperbolic line that completely poison the whole debate about this by grossly misrepresenting in an easy to spread tweet-fitting hot take what is actually happening. No big deal, amirite?

And people say I should keep my cool after days of this.

Lots of people here agree on this slippery Slope argument and believe the pandora box should not be opened. Here you guys just keep repeating the implementation over and over while ignoring the bigger pictures. Tunnel vision at its finest: literally only sees now, and no further.

“Stuff could happen”.

Yes. It could happen. You know what could happen? The future. What we live now is the culmination of what we did in the past. Two years from now, I wonder how the world will change. Spoiler alert, it will NOT change to the direction you and I would expect.

 

[Philip_S]

When the word CHILD is mentioned I hardly think it pertains to someone just under 18. I live in the states and under 18 is actually 17 in terms of age of consent in select states so that's not a CHILD. And if you think it's acceptable for minors to send nude pics then Apple is definitely targeting you. As for my personal life that's none of your concern or business.

it’s a child when there’s porn involved, even if everyone who’s a party to the message (apart from net curtain twitching tech companies) is legally having sex with each other. Back in when I was underage camera phones were the new expensive toy that few people had, and MMS messages were expensive, but most of us had digital cameras and a few had webcams.

my siblings were still underage by the time everyone had at least a camera phone, and our A-G was announcing that under-18s who send nudes would be prosecuted and imprisoned as a deterrent to protect them from the consequences of having pictures leak.

As opposed to no E2EE today...?

It is harmful for two reasons: it will give people a false belief that their data is private, plus it will mean we’ll have to start all over agin campaigning for E2EE without embedded spyware in the client (which was hard enough when it was Facebook doing it, and they dropped the privacy claims rather than fixed the issues).

It already is since 2011 with facial recognition. It's doing this whether or not you use icloud

Apple made a big point about ensuring that data would never leave the device on which it was created, except as part of an encrypted backup, which is why neither the ML models nor the match locations are shared between iOS and MacOS Photos.

 

[Shirasaki]

which was hard enough when it was Facebook doing it, and they dropped the privacy claims rather than fixed the issues)

Dunno what Will happen if after all this Apple is Being forced to drop their stance on privacy and admit they are no better than Facebook, Google and Microsoft.
I Still think the attention brought up by media is far from enough to have any sort of real pressure.

 

[dialogos]

I tried Box and found Cryptomator had the better interface for my liking.

I haven't tried pcloud. Just keep in mind that if you lose your password for sync, say goodbye to your data. If that happens, Sync will delete your data upon request and you will have to create a new account.

Thanks a lot !

 

[giggles]

What do we want from Apple?
We don’t know. (no local background processes ever or something)

Why do we want it?
“Stuff could happen, anything could happen, cats and dogs living together”


Gotta love the sloppery slippers protest chants.

 

[George Dawes]

What if you don't have kids , don't know any kids and are just a normal person with zero interest in kids or the weird stuff they get up to

Can you opt out ?

I'm a lot more bothered about my sensitive banking info , accountant / solicitors emails screengrabs etc tbh thx

 

[dialogos]

What do we want from Apple?
We don’t know. (no local background processes ever or something)

Why do we want it?
“Stuff could happen, anything could happen, cats and dogs living together”


Gotta love the sloppery slippers protest chants.

" What happens on your iphone stays on your iphone"

That was what they advertised.. and much more. This is what we want.

Unless they were not accurate with their messages all this time in their ads.. that means they are not accurate with their word selection , therefore we shouldnt trust them to what they are saying from now on..

 

[giggles]

What if you don't have kids , don't know any kids and are just a normal person with zero interest in kids or the weird stuff they get up to

Can you opt out ?

I'm a lot more bothered about my sensitive banking info , accountant / solicitors emails screengrabs etc tbh thx

Yes you can disable iCloud Photos.

Don’t worry tho, they are not looking at the literal CONTENT of pics, they’re just smelling them blindfolded to check if a certain fingerprint extrapolated from the pic matches with SPECIFIC KNOWN kiddie p0rn pictures. 1 in a trillion chance for them to match your sensitive screen grabs.

 

[jshannon01]

I wonder what the current Apple would say if the FBI goes back to them again asking for a specific backdoor in the name of preventing terrorism.

They won't need another backdoor. This is it. All that's needed is an update to the database to detect what the gubment wants to detect. There will be no announcement.

 

[dialogos]

What if you don't have kids , don't know any kids and are just a normal person with zero interest in kids or the weird stuff they get up to

Can you opt out ?

I'm a lot more bothered about my sensitive banking info , accountant / solicitors emails screengrabs etc tbh thx

There are families that want their kids to have basic sex education.. I also want an 18 years old to have a sip of wine from time to time. I know thore are scary concepts in many parts of the world (including US) but not in Europe.

Apparently every family shares a different idea of how they should raise their children and we do NOT want Apple's control on top of us.

 

[George Dawes]

Looking at my last 1,000 photos a lot of them are black/blank as my dad has an ipad and has no idea he's taking photos all day of a blank wall lol😂 by mistake , probably when he turns it on/off

I spend quite literally ages deleting pictures of 'nothing'

 

[dialogos]

Yes you can disable iCloud Photos.

Don’t worry tho, they are not looking at the literal CONTENT of pics, they’re just smelling them blindfolded to check if a certain fingerprint extrapolated from the pic matches with SPECIFIC KNOWN kiddie p0rn pictures. 1 in a trillion chance for them to match your sensitive screen grabs.

You're obsessed with your 1 in trillion in Apple words. You wrote it so many times here.

For the average user disabling iphotos is a reason not to invest in apple's ecosystem anyway. Many users will revert to Google anyway.

You have invested your time accusing people here that they dont know probabilities and you have mentioned this phrase 1 in trillion so many times. Is there ANYTHING that worries you?

I mean I assume you have critical thinking.. don't you? Is there anything at all that worries you regarding to what apple is about to do?

 

[giggles]

" What happens on your iphone stays on your iphone"

I won’t technical-explanation my way out of this one (I could: the background scanning process is not “Apple” in person inside your iPhone, it’s a local process that can’t communicate in any way with Apple unless you move your data to the cloud) because I get it that you mean that in a broader sense, but even in a broader sense it basically still holds true. They’re only pre-labeling data that’s already on its way to the cloud. People make analogies based on home search of physical objects but physical objects cannot be duplicated or exist in 2 places. Data can be perfectly duplicated and exist both locally and on Apple’s servers, to the point that’s a moot technicality at what copies are you looking at. It’s like if a magical button allowed the police to instantly create a copy of your whole home (including everything inside every drawer and room) and you allowed the police to do warrantless searches in that second home. That’s what data you ALREADY agreed to upload to iCloud is. May as well pre-scan the original copy like Apple is doing.