Apple Removes Network Locations Feature in macOS Ventura

[trollied]

They are slowly removing everything from the macOS ui if it isn't possible/present in iOS/iPadOS. Slowly, bit by bit, they are making the OSes the same. 2 more versions (when they drop Intel support) & they can finish the merge/transition.

 

[Porco]

I am sure some people won’t miss this if they never used it, but I don’t see any good reason to remove this at all, and I would miss it.

 

[sdf]

Gotcha. Yea, not much use for me, but not sure why they needed to remove it, if it was useful for some.

Maintaining features in an OS is not free. There's no development cost (except in Ventura there would've been for a new UI), but there's still testing and correcting regressions.

It was useful when it came out, but these days its utility is mostly limited to those using wired connections without a DHCP server. (Edit: Probably also wireless connections without DHCP.) Probably not a lot of that in 2022.

This is probably the right time to ditch it, and if enough people miss it they can always add it back in the future.

 

[RamGuy]

I downgraded my Mac mini from macOS Ventura Developer BETA5 back to macOS Monterey as a direct result of the new settings pane lacking things I just can't live without. I normally use my Mac mini for BETA-testing as I find it fun and unless it's really unstable I never revert. But things like not having my Mac mini ever go to sleep automatically because the setting is completely lacking within the new settings pane was driving me crazy. I told myself that it was most likely just missing from BETA1, but BETA2, 3, 4 and 5 has released and it's still missing and no comment has been made from Apple on my feedback on it which I delivered back in BETA1 making it feel like they are not going to have it be a setting at all on macOS Ventura which seems crazy to me. No setting to allow your system to go to sleep after being idle for a set amount of time? Really? The lack of an "on-demand" toggle on VPN connections is also strange. Many people would want their VPN connection to be on all the time, this is the default behaviour for native VPN profiles on iOS and iPadOS so why would we loose the entire toggle for this on macOS Ventura?

 

[t0rqx]

removed, just to appear again as a new feature in 5 years. Just like the battery percentage.

 

[Steve01234]

It's niche unless you live in that niche, I guess. There are about 25,000 MacOS users at my company that use this feature daily.

join the beta and file bug reports. the new system prefs is a disoranized trainwreck that gives win XP a run for the money at how bad it is. Steve would NEVER of let this mess see the light of day out of a testing lab.

 

[Shh]

I literally never have and never will use this feature, but it's still stupid to remove.

 

[adrianlondon]

The command "networksetup" still works. So maybe it's just not been added to the Settings app yet.

osx networksetup man page on unix.com

osx operating system manual for networksetup section 8 of the unix.com man page documentation.

www.unix.com

 

[seek3r]

Pardon my ignorance on this matter, but how was this used? I mean you would connect to a different network depending on where you were, wouldn't you?

It basically allows you to toggle preset configs of service priorities (EDIT: and static IP/DHCP etc settings) I believe, never really used it, I just adjust service order et al as needed. I wonder how much it’s really used, it has a relatively narrow scope of users, most of whom probably do what I do, and it’s pretty esoteric otherwise

 

[Macsterguy]

Good Find Jason Snell!

 

[guzhogi]

Maintaining features in an OS is not free. There's no development cost (except in Ventura there would've been for a new UI), but there's still testing and correcting regressions.

While true, for a company the size of Apple that brings in *BILLIONS* in profits every year, I'm not too concerned about costs.

In regards to Network Locations specifically, I don't know the usage numbers. If no one's really using it, fine whatever. If people are, keep it.

 

[alexandr]

it’s pretty esoteric otherwise

it really does sound that way)

 

[alexandr]

Maintaining features in an OS is not free. There's no development cost (except in Ventura there would've been for a new UI), but there's still testing and correcting regressions.

It was useful when it came out, but these days its utility is mostly limited to those using wired connections without a DHCP server. (Edit: Probably also wireless connections without DHCP.) Probably not a lot of that in 2022.

This is probably the right time to ditch it, and if enough people miss it they can always add it back in the future.

Yea, no, I'm fine with it

 

[alexandr]

You are still able to achieve the same result, but now you would have to manually go in and change it every time, rather than having presets.

I guess where there's a will there's a way

 

[sdf]

While true, for a company the size of Apple that brings in *BILLIONS* in profits every year, I'm not too concerned about costs.

Well, that assumes money can fix all problems in development. Which seems a logical assumption, but: it really can't. Hiring good developers is not easy. Even if you get a really good developer, increased team size leads to increased coordination costs.

In regards to Network Locations specifically, I don't know the usage numbers. If no one's really using it, fine whatever. If people are, keep it.

I think a DHCP server would perform the same function, really. Plug your Mac into Ethernet and it can figure out connection details over DHCP. If not plugged in, it can do the same thing over a WiFi network. If you're a business not running a DHCP server? Now's a good time to re-evaluate that.

I'm sure there's still cases where it's needed, but I bet a shortcut, once built, can configure networking with the same number of clicks. So it's functionality most don't need that can probably be replaced for most of the rest with a shortcut. I can see why it failed to make the list when Apple was needing to build new UIs for Settings.

 

[chucker23n1]

While true, for a company the size of Apple that brings in *BILLIONS* in profits every year, I'm not too concerned about costs.

Doesn't really matter. They could have all the money in the world and they'd still need to prioritize features to keep complexity down. You can't compartmentalize everything into teams either; that approach is part of why Mac OS 8 Copland and Windows Longhorn failed.

 

[chucker23n1]

Maintaining features in an OS is not free. There's no development cost (except in Ventura there would've been for a new UI), but there's still testing and correcting regressions.

Yep.

It was useful when it came out, but these days its utility is mostly limited to those using wired connections without a DHCP server. (Edit: Probably also wireless connections without DHCP.) Probably not a lot of that in 2022.

It's still a thing in high-security environments. (In fact, I had a talk just a few weeks ago on whether we should get rid of DHCP again.)

Otherwise, you easily run into hazards where someone walks in with an Ethernet cable in their pocket, connects their laptop, and has a certain level of access. Yes, you can restrict them to subnets, or whitelist MAC addresses… or you could outright get rid of DHCP altogether.

 

[kurtfoster]

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I have not used that setting in over 20 years.

 

[chucker23n1]

I suppose they could tie script actions to the change in Focus. And those scripts could change network settings. But, ironically, if that were to happen, they would be removing a simple click-based method of doing that with one that requires scripting knowledge. Kinda backwards, if you ask me.

Yes.

Someone could write a GUI wrapper around networksetup, assuming Apple leaves the location portions of networksetup around. Even if not, it is something a third party could do.

(I've attempted to do just that with Network Utility in the past, and virtually nobody cared, so I guess I'll pass.)

 

[Zdigital2015]

If you troubleshoot networks for a living and use a Mac this was a great way to create different network configs and swap between them, even one for home and own for work. I used it for along time but haven’t felt the need to in a long time. My knee jerk reaction is that this is more Apple stupidity, but I’d rather let people who actually use the feature now explain their use case. Regardless, Ventura is shaping up to be a release I avoid for a long time. I’ll take my chance with Monterey, Big Sur and Catalina…and my Late 2011 sporting High Sierra. Apple just won’t give up on taking 2 steps forward and 3 back with this sort of stuff. My Apple budget for 2022 is strictly for a Watch Series 8 and the rest is being spent elsewhere. I’ve got not time for their continued idiocy. My new job has me using Windows 10 everyday, so little time to play around in Apple land now.

Pardon my ignorance on this matter, but how was this used? I mean you would connect to a different network depending on where you were, wouldn't you?

 

[alexandr]

If you troubleshoot networks for a living and use a Mac this was a great way to create different network configs and swap between them, even one for home and own for work. I used it for along time but haven’t felt the need to in a long time. My knee jerk reaction is that this is more Apple stupidity, but I’d rather let people who actually use the feature now explain their use case. Regardless, Ventura is shaping up to be a release I avoid for a long time. I’ll take my chance with Monterey, Big Sur and Catalina…and my Late 2011 sporting High Sierra. Apple just won’t give up on taking 2 steps forward and 3 back with this sort of stuff. My Apple budget for 2022 is strictly for a Watch Series 8 and the rest is being spent elsewhere. I’ve got not time for their continued idiocy. My new job has me using Windows 10 everyday, so little time to play around in Apple land now.

Ha ha, yea our IT department is also trying to get us to use PC's, but no)))

 

[sdf]

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I have not used that setting in over 20 years.

I wonder when Apple last had to make changes to it. I'm guessing over a decade.

The developers who worked on that have probably moved on by now. Hell, some might have passed on by now.

 

[sdf]

Otherwise, you easily run into hazards where someone walks in with an Ethernet cable in their pocket, connects their laptop, and has a certain level of access. Yes, you can restrict them to subnets, or whitelist MAC addresses… or you could outright get rid of DHCP altogether.

Removing DHCP alone just means they need to know the configuration, right? Without other changes, they just need a few IP addresses (including one they can use).

(Whereas DHCP can tell an unrecognized laptop to pound sand.)

 

[chucker23n1]

Removing DHCP alone just means they need to know the configuration, right?

Depends on what the DHCP server does.

Without other changes, they just need a few IP addresses (including one they can use).

(Whereas DHCP can tell an unrecognized laptop to pound sand.)

It could, but you could still switch to manual either way.

But yes, disabling DHCP is more of a security by obscurity measure.

 

[ignatius345]

Snell says Apple's command-line tool "networksetup" is still present in the latest macOS Ventura beta, so a third-party developer could step in and release an app to replace the Network Locations functionality removed in the System Settings app.

At least this should provide some way to recover the feature for those few who truly need it.

I never used Network Locations, but on principle I don't like Apple removing advanced features from MacOS.