Apple Removes Network Locations Feature in macOS Ventura

[SilverWalker]

What a stupid change. I use this every time I switch to wired so it doesn't go off and start using Wi-Fi randomly.

You probably know this already, but you can change the order of the network interfaces. The interface at the top is used as the default gateway (and default DNS). At least, this is in Monterey and previous versions - don't know about Ventura. If you set your ethernet connection at the top, it will be used when it is plugged in, even if WiFi is also connected. When ethernet is disconnected, it will switch to using WiFi as the gateway/DNS automatically.

Network preferences > bottom left hand corner (...) > Set service order.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

I understand why they want to streamline the settings and make it more in line with iOS/iPadOS. But so far the new settings panel on macOS Ventura has been a mess. Lots of settings are simply missing. No toggle for on-demand for VPN connections, on my Mac mini there is no option for me to set when my system is supposed to go to sleep, etc..

Still in BETA, but there are so many obvious things missing and we are already at BETA5. Unless macOS is getting delayed like iPadOS there isn't much time left before it has to go into Release Candidates which normally means no changes to features or GUI, only bug squishing.

The more they dumb down macOS and turn it more like their toyOS's, the more they open the door for someone to come along and create a whole new hardware/OS platform and blow the complacent, greedy, control-freak, Apple out of the water. If I was a billionaire, I would already have created a team to put it in place, just for fun. Steve Woz would be high up on my list of candidates to run the show.

 

[CarlJ]

Pardon my ignorance on this matter, but how was this used? I mean you would connect to a different network depending on where you were, wouldn't you?

I've had times in the past when I used the Network Locations feature to have finer grained control over how to connect to the network. Sometimes this was listing networks/interfaces in different orders to have control over which network was preferred, sometimes this was removing or adding interfaces from the list.

One case was a "Wired ONLY" entry to force an ethernet connection even when there was a WiFi network present (for speed, reliability, and routing reasons) - these days this specific case can be handled by simply going to the WiFi widget in the menu bar and toggling WiFi off. I also had entries to turn on every interface (including things like ethernet over Firewire, for direct-connecting two Macs), and another entry to use most of the time that only allowed WiFi connections, thus simplifying the network negotiating process.

You might also have entries to run an ethernet connection either in a DHCP controlled environment, or using a hard-coded network configuration (IP address, subnet, netmask, gateway, etc.). Particularly if you had multiple different hard-coded network configurations you needed to use (without DHCP to query for settings, the machine couldn't tell which settings to use). Especially helpful if you had multiple ethernet networks to connect to in different locations (work/home, but could also be different labs at work or whatever) that weren't controlled by DHCP.

Another would be "WiFi with DHCP for everything" vs "WiFi & DHCP but override the provided nameservers".

These days my network scenarios are a lot less diverse - mostly WiFi using DHCP for everything, so I don't currently have need for this, but it's unfortunate to see it go. "Network Location" meant being able to have half a dozen conflicting configurations stored and switching between them with one pulldown. If it goes away and there's no replacement, then switching between two of those configurations could mean looking up notes and fiddling half a dozen settings one way or the other, entering or erasing IP addresses for nameservers and such. Seems an unfortunate choice.

 

[SEJU]

This was such a useful feature. I used it all the time to switch between different static ip settings.

I am really sad they killed it!

 

[urnotl33t]

"Apple's legendary ease-of-use that the Mac is known for"

Nothing screams legendary ease-of-use like essentially writing your own system software or automations.

What always set Apple apart from all the other nerd-targeting computer companies were the simple but powerful nice touches throughout Apple's products. Even if a feature was narrowly targeted, some nerd inside Apple thought of making it easy to operate. Apple's products were designed and engineered enthusiasts who had excellent taste for interaction and design. The nerds and enthusiasts at Apple designed products for non-enthusiasts and enthusiasts alike because even an enthusiast can appreciate a powerful feature being easier to operate. They used to have a special gift of creating features that satisfied the majority of both camps.

They seem to struggle with this more and more these days. Sometimes they either go too nerdy and powerful (Focus is a good example), or not powerful enough and too simplistic in capabilities.

Downside of these "new kids" writing the code. You can totally tell since, roughly, iOS 10. More "nerd-like" stuff brought over from Android without the classic "Apple polish". Nerd things are nifty at times, for sure, but without the polish, it's just another "nerd knob".

Original iOS was written by long-serving OS X programmers with the 12+ programming history. Features were focused, the tricks were there but not so immediately visible (like long pressing on keyboard characters to change to alternate layout for that key, or hold the onscreen shift key and still type a letter to get temporary caps like a physical keyboard). iOS was originally to "teach non-nerds how to use a high tech device in friendly fashion", just like true Mac did for computers. Now, people who grew up with iPhones in their cribs are writing code and they take it for granted.

Understandable, if it retained the polish, which it doesn't. No, my parents don't need constant training wheels for their iPhones and iPads, but the "nerd knobs" are getting in the way. Gimmicky effects and losing interfaces like this stupid flat crap. It's unclear what should be touched, the touch targets are too narrow (my biggest gripe), stupid "3 dots" always at the top that constantly get hit... unnecessary "nerd knobs".

The polish has worn away. Apple would do well to pay closer attention here.

 

[loby]

I am sure some people won’t miss this if they never used it, but I don’t see any good reason to remove this at all, and I would miss it.

At least we can still turn off the wifi if we don't want it constantly on...(that may change eventually i.e. "Always on" and total reliance on internet or cloud...)

This setting is useful and should not be cut just because their data on users shows not many use it anymore. It is a convenient setting that you may not use all of the time, but comes in handy when needed.

Not a fan of "dummying down" the OS...but hey, people want to just "turn on" like an appliance now-a-days, so it is what it is. I like the options to be able to configure, but those days are coming to a close.

 

[loby]

Downside of these "new kids" writing the code. You can totally tell since, roughly, iOS 10. More "nerd-like" stuff brought over from Android without the classic "Apple polish". Nerd things are nifty at times, for sure, but without the polish, it's just another "nerd knob".

Original iOS was written by long-serving OS X programmers with the 12+ programming history. Features were focused, the tricks were there but not so immediately visible (like long pressing on keyboard characters to change to alternate layout for that key, or hold the onscreen shift key and still type a letter to get temporary caps like a physical keyboard). iOS was originally to "teach non-nerds how to use a high tech device in friendly fashion", just like true Mac did for computers. Now, people who grew up with iPhones in their cribs are writing code and they take it for granted.

Understandable, if it retained the polish, which it doesn't. No, my parents don't need constant training wheels for their iPhones and iPads, but the "nerd knobs" are getting in the way. Gimmicky effects and losing interfaces like this stupid flat crap. It's unclear what should be touched, the touch targets are too narrow (my biggest gripe), stupid "3 dots" always at the top that constantly get hit... unnecessary "nerd knobs".

The polish has worn away. Apple would do well to pay closer attention here.

Apple does not care...more users (just touch and do) of iPhones and they want more sales from the kids to cross over to the MacBook Air etc. New day, new era. "Make it easier" for the kids is the name of the game now.

When we were kids, we had to learn (even some code)...now...we don't have to learn...it does it for you. (Big Daddy). Philosophy of the "New Kids".

 

[loby]

What a stupid change. I use this every time I switch to wired so it doesn't go off and start using Wi-Fi randomly.

If on Ethernet, you have to turn wifi on to use airplay. Can see why the move to "always on".

 

[dougb628]

In addition to redesigning the System Settings app on macOS Ventura, Apple has removed the app's longstanding Network Locations feature, as noted by Jason Snell at Six Colors. The feature allowed users to quickly switch between different sets of Wi-Fi, Ethernet, and other network settings depending on their location, such as home or work.

Given that macOS Ventura is still in beta, there is always a chance that Network Locations could return at some point, but this seems unlikely given that Apple marked Tyler Loch's bug report about the feature's absence as "works as currently designed."

In a support document, Apple says the Network Locations feature could be useful in circumstances such as those listed below:Snell says Apple's command-line tool "networksetup" is still present in the latest macOS Ventura beta, so a third-party developer could step in and release an app to replace the Network Locations functionality removed in the System Settings app.

Article Link: Apple Removes Network Locations Feature in macOS Ventura

It's actually not gone, just hidden away. Select Network in the list on the left, then on the right, at the bottom, just to the left of the question mark icon, there is an ellipsis dropdown. Click on that, and choose Set Service Order... and a dialog will come up with the Location dropdown at the top. I don't know if it is switching all of the settings that it used to, but it definitely allows you to set unique service orders by location.

 

[alexandr]

I've had times in the past when I used the Network Locations feature to have finer grained control over how to connect to the network. Sometimes this was listing networks/interfaces in different orders to have control over which network was preferred, sometimes this was removing or adding interfaces from the list.

One case was a "Wired ONLY" entry to force an ethernet connection even when there was a WiFi network present (for speed, reliability, and routing reasons) - these days this specific case can be handled by simply going to the WiFi widget in the menu bar and toggling WiFi off. I also had entries to turn on every interface (including things like ethernet over Firewire, for direct-connecting two Macs), and another entry to use most of the time that only allowed WiFi connections, thus simplifying the network negotiating process.

You might also have entries to run an ethernet connection either in a DHCP controlled environment, or using a hard-coded network configuration (IP address, subnet, netmask, gateway, etc.). Particularly if you had multiple different hard-coded network configurations you needed to use (without DHCP to query for settings, the machine couldn't tell which settings to use). Especially helpful if you had multiple ethernet networks to connect to in different locations (work/home, but could also be different labs at work or whatever) that weren't controlled by DHCP.

Another would be "WiFi with DHCP for everything" vs "WiFi & DHCP but override the provided nameservers".

These days my network scenarios are a lot less diverse - mostly WiFi using DHCP for everything, so I don't currently have need for this, but it's unfortunate to see it go. "Network Location" meant being able to have half a dozen conflicting configurations stored and switching between them with one pulldown. If it goes away and there's no replacement, then switching between two of those configurations could mean looking up notes and fiddling half a dozen settings one way or the other, entering or erasing IP addresses for nameservers and such. Seems an unfortunate choice.

Wow, thank you for taking the time for such an elaborate explanation! Yea, I figured that my usage was always simpler than the need for this, and I'm guessing nowadays that's the general theme, you're saying that yourself. This kind of makes me think back to the days before Apple took over the consumer market the way that they did with the iMac(mostly) — PC users used to give me many scenarios for why they couldn't use a Mac well, and a few years later they were all on osx

 

[giv-as-a-ciggy-kent]

I use this feature every day. Super mad they’re doing away with it. IMO macOS has been downhill since lion release. Lots of good features with an equal number of annoyances.

The ****** this about this is how senseless the change is. Why even take it out?

If on Ethernet, you have to turn wifi on to use airplay. Can see why the move to "always on".

This isn’t even true. My iMac has wifi permanently off and airplay is working fine.

 

[CarAnalogy]

This really annoys me. One of the reasons I switched to macOS was the built in support for advanced networking. Why do operating systems keep getting worse at their core?

 

[Spoddles]

A little lick of Swift UI and it’s done. What’s so hard? 👩‍🎨

 

[giv-as-a-ciggy-kent]

Why do operating systems keep getting worse at their core?

Reduction in collective iq of the user base.

For years everyone was trying to make “computers easy for grandma” not realizing that the technical and cognitive barrier to entry is what made computers good. Fewer mouth breathing dunce cap wearers meant more control by the user over hardware and software because the odds of them completely screwing the pooch and being unable to correct the issue were low.

With MacOS Apple took a strong foundation and fixed all of the annoying time sinks and hobbyist level trash that made bsd and Linux annoying to use, and put on some visual polish to make it fun and interesting.

And then iPhone came along, millions of people who had no business being on the Internet flooded in, and a dum-dum’s dollar being the same as anyone else’s, the industry started chasing those dollars. It’s like eternal September on a global and industry wide scale.

Apple had a huge price advantage for a long time in that the cost was too high for casuals to buy into the ecosystem, but a combination of good design, durability and a massive marketing machine have conspired to remove that final filter.

You want to see the hell that awaits us? Go to reddit and look at the average moron there. The homepage today for example is positively embarrassing. Next, mix in some of microsofts software nannying (SMARTSCREEN HAS DETECTED THIS FILE MAY BE DANGEROUS!!!!!1 Are you really sure you want to run it?????? REALLY SURE????? Don’t do this!!!!), and greedy willingness to sell your data to governments and advertisers alike mentality. Then add in some state level social controls and monthly subscriptions for basic stuff to nickel and dime you into oblivion.

That’s your future operating system.

Stallman was right.

 

[svish]

Some do use this feature. Hopefully it can make a comeback in the next beta/final release

 

[G-News]

That was super handy back in dialup days. I used it even for my clients in it support. Allowed you to switch dialup profiles with a single click between different locations and providers. It’s arguably no longer needed as much, removing it is still wrong though.

 

[RedWeasel]

I wasn’t asking for advice on securing a network.

But you were spreading misleading information about securing a network and it’s good that some people chimed in and provided better information.

If you choose to ignore that, then that’s obviously perfectly fine. It’s still valuable for others.

 

[AppliedMicro]

I never found Network Locations in System Preferences “polished” or intuitive to use (for non-enthusiasts). Nor did it convey excellent taste for interaction and design, IMO. It was always a “nerd knob” that made network settings less accessible to the average non-technical user. And if you keep every little piece of cruft around and in the user interface just because someone uses it, you’ll end up with the mess that some other operating systems are.

For the few people that use such functionality, I feel it can (nowadays) rightly be relegated to outside of the System Preferences and “core macOS experience”.

I’d even argue it should be - cause if you do use it to change settings quickly when moving between different locations network setups everyday, its location in System Preferences isn’t that well-accessible either. You’d rather prefer a menu bar extra for quick accessibility or a dedicated app for that.

Apple’s recent networking efforts, e.g. Network Extensions, don’t look to me as if they’re abandoning advanced configurability of network connections and interfaces either and just dumb down everything to consumer toy boxes. I believe there will always be command-line tools / APIs to set up network settings on macOS. Developers will be able to build upon them and come up with much better user interfaces for this particular functionality than what we have in System Preferences today.

 

[loby]

I use this feature every day. Super mad they’re doing away with it. IMO macOS has been downhill since lion release. Lots of good features with an equal number of annoyances.

The ****** this about this is how senseless the change is. Why even take it out?


This isn’t even true. My iMac has wifi permanently off and airplay is working fine.

Humm…when I was using Ethernet only and turned off my wifi, I tried using airplay and got a message saying “turn on wifi”.. I will check again. Thx

 

[bingeciren]

Majority of users are not using it, so we removed it. Lovely logic! Since only the techies and the geek are using the Terminal, and the majority of users are not using it, get rid of Terminal while you are at it too.

Given the choice , Apple would love to turn MacOS into IOS and call it MacIOS.

 

[JustSomebody12]

You could basically have your Mac adjust your network configuration for you based on your WiFi network, e.g. automatically use a different DNS server at home vs work.

It was a niche feature for sure but I also don't see why it needs to be removed. Part of what made macOS special was a lot of these little "nice touches" that came built in to the OS.

I think they may be moving it to Shortcuts?

 

[Avenged110]

So ridiculous. I use this feature rather regularly to quickly switch DNS servers. The 'dumbing down' of OS X has been really irritating to watch. (I may use Mavericks, but it's things like this that pretty much guarantee I'll always use some older version.)

 

[chucker23n1]

The more they dumb down macOS and turn it more like their toyOS's, the more they open the door for someone to come along and create a whole new hardware/OS platform and blow the complacent, greedy, control-freak, Apple out of the water.

Yeah, that’s not happening, other than at the low end with ChromeOS. We’ve seen it in the 1990s, and we’ve seen it again in mobile OSes in the 2010s: a third platform cannot thrive.

 

[Anic297]

I often use network location to quickly see whether my ethernet cable is properly connected (it shows a coloured dot next to “Ethernet”. When red, the cable isn't connected (on either end), when yellow, it's a setting issue).
Curious that no one else talked about this in this thread.
The removal of network location will hardly be replaceable in my use case.

 

[chucker23n1]

I often use network location to quickly see whether my ethernet cable is properly connected (it shows a coloured dot next to “Ethernet”. When red, the cable isn't connected (on either end), when yellow, it's a setting issue).
Curious that no one else talked about this in this thread.
The removal of network location will hardly be replaceable in my use case.

Ventura still indicates status.