Apple Report Reveals Men Are Paid 5% More on Average Than Women in UK

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacRumors, Apr 3, 2018.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot

    MacRumors

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    Male employees who work for Apple in the United Kingdom earn five percent more on average than women, according to a UK Gender Pay Gap report released today by Apple [PDF]. The median hourly pay gap was two percent in favor of women, however.

    According to Apple, the average pay gap is due to more men holding senior positions at the company, and when factoring in "similar roles, markets, and performance" it has achieved pay equity. Apple has more than 6,000 employees in the UK.

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    Apple says that 30 percent of its UK employees are women, and 36 percent of new employees last year were women. 40 percent of the companies "leaders under the age of 30" are also women.

    92 percent of men received a bonus including vested stock, while 88 percent of women received the same bonus. Additional detail on the wage gap in the UK is available in Apple's full report.

    Apple published this information because of a new UK law that requires companies with more than 250 employees to publish the average total pay received by men relative to that received by women.

    Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

    Article Link: Apple Report Reveals Men Are Paid 5% More on Average Than Women in UK
     
  2. Starflyer macrumors 6502a

    Starflyer

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    #2
    "and when factoring in "similar roles, markets, and performance" it has achieved pay equity."

    End of story.
     
  3. MyMacintosh macrumors 6502

    MyMacintosh

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    can't wait to see the comments on this one...
     
  4. budselectjr, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018

    budselectjr macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    Equal pay discourages the monetary cost of discrimination which the employer pays in their bias in hiring and paying men more when they could have hired a woman for less to do the same or better job.
     
  5. mariusignorello macrumors 65816

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    #6
    That usually is the end result. Nobody hates women.
     
  6. rturner2 macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    If woman were cheaper for the same work, companies would have a bias to hire more woman. Simple. This isn’t the case.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 3, 2018 ---
    With this being said, you wonder why macrumors publishes such rubbish.
     
  7. Jmausmuc macrumors 6502a

    Jmausmuc

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    #8
    I think it is pretty likely, that when all other correlated factors are accounted for, the “gender pay gap” would be almost non existent.

    Gender might play a certain role in low level jobs but when it comes to middle and especially senior management as well as high skilled jobs, competitive company’s on the marketplace could never afford to systematically underpay a large group of their high value employees.
     
  8. alex2792 macrumors 6502a

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  9. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    #10
    Sounds like a valid comparison. Men and women in the same role at the same performance level should get the same pay and it sounds like Apple is doing well in that regard. If women or men choose not to pursue higher level positions with a higher salary that is their choice to do so.
     
  10. NachoGrande macrumors 6502a

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    #11
    5% really? this is news? There are so many factors in pay. 5% is not a meaningful difference.
     
  11. Black Tiger macrumors 6502

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    #12
    Lots of angry men already posting in here. Proving the need for these discussions in the first place.
     
  12. neuropsychguy macrumors 65816

    neuropsychguy

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    #13
    5% is about the gender wage gap (best estimates are around 5-7%) in the U.S. once you factor in equal positions, time in job, etc (this is a good summary: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/jul/15/politifact-sheet-gender-pay-gap/). It is meaningful but wage gaps are not nearly as large as commonly and deceivingly depicted (e.g., https://www.aauw.org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gender-pay-gap/).
     
  13. EightyTwenty macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    When you hear or read the word “equity”, you know you are dealing with ideologically possessed scum that are looking to do harm.

    The gender gap has been debunked so many times by now that it’s nothing but a running joke.

    And why are they deviding employees by genitalia? Why not shoe size? Or height? Or attractiveness? Or age? What does your age pay gap look like, Apple? I want to see a breakdown. Are you discriminating against redheads? What about gay vs. straight? Do the gays earn more, or do they earn less?
     
  14. givemeanapple macrumors Demi-God

    givemeanapple

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    #15
    I thought Apple was focused in equal paying and rights for both Men and Woman...
     
  15. rafark macrumors 6502a

    rafark

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    #16
    Quickly someone bring the wage gap button!
     
  16. GrumpyMom macrumors 604

    GrumpyMom

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    #17
    What angry men? I don't see any. These headlines are inflammatory but so far the discussion has been logical and measured.

    It is when these statistics get twisted to imply a bias against women (where none exists) and used to implement a quota system that penalizes or excludes qualified men for promotions that yes, the discussion will get heated and men understandably would be angry. But that's not what is happening here at the moment anyway.

    My husband works for a tech company and they are very encouraging of women's careers. But there simply is a shortage of female recruits. They need to fill positions and if there are no qualified women then of course they won't overlook qualified men and just leave positions unstaffed to avoid an appearance of bias. Unfortunately the preponderence of male employees will skew these final ratios to look bad. So you have to refer to the individual data to ensure that women in fact are not being paid less than a male occupying a comparable position and doing the same work. And that is what the other forum members are pointing out.
     
  17. rturner2 macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    Or a discussion around facts instead of feelings?
     
  18. EightyTwenty, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018

    EightyTwenty macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    Huh?
     
  19. eicca macrumors 6502

    eicca

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    #20
    If companies really can get away with paying women less for the same work, why aren’t they hiring mostly women so they can keep more money for their greedy CEOs?

    Seems like a mostly-men workforce would cost them a lot more money. They could be saving quite a lot.
     
  20. cmwade77 macrumors 65816

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    #21
    Here is the problem with equal pay for equal work: It ignores several important factors. Something that I never see these studies mention is if they been sure to account for all additional factors, such as:
    • Comparing amount of time at the current employer
      • Subtracting out Parental Leaves, Family Leaves, Vacation Time, etc. - This is crucial as Women do tend to take longer maternity leave that fathers do for Paternity Leave.
    • Comparing amount of experience
      • Again, subtracting out Parental Leaves, Family Leaves, Vacation Time, etc.
    • Comparing amount of education
    • Comparing quality of education
    • Comparing quality of work produced
    • Comparing profitability of work produced
    • Any additional factors, aside from race, religion, political affiliation, gender, sexual preference that may affect pay
    Once all of those factors are equaled out, then I wonder what the REAL pay gap between men and women is. I believe it would be brought down to well under 1% with all factors accounted for, but I do admit that I could be wrong and once these factors are accounted for, we could see that the gap is even higher than 5%. But all of these factors MUST be accounted for in order for us to have a meaningful conversation in any shape or form.
     
  21. Mcmeowmers macrumors 6502

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    #22
    I believe the factual feminist on youtube discusses your top two points.
     
  22. Ap0ks macrumors 6502

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    #23
    Erm... what? Those factors seem highly irrelevant if comparing equal pay for equal work, comparing “quality of education” just reeks of cronyism.

    Also just to clear it up, this isn’t a study, it’s a mandatory reporting of data set by the UK government so they can measure and act if needed on pay equality. Apple seem to be doing pretty well with their 5% gap, whereas other companies and even whole industries aren’t doing so well - obviously those not doing so well will be the companies that are heavily dominated by men in senior/highly paid positions like airlines and banking.
     
  23. EightyTwenty macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    Experience, education, quality of performance, and profit generated are "irrelevant"? Really? Seriously?

    So your argument is that women should be paid the exact same amount as men in any given company... just because? That's what you are going to go with?
     
  24. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

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    #25
    Presumably, the percentage of female employees will continue to grow because of the increasing percentage of female college graduates in the job pool.

    There's also a snowball effect. People tend to hire people who are similar to them, which explains various forms of bias. As women increase in number, they will make more of the decisions that affect who gets hired. Even where the bias continues, women who tend to hire women will counteract the effect of men who tend to hire men.[/quote]
     

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