Apple Reportedly Ramps Up Vapor Chamber Orders for Foldable iPhone

[rlewisphilly]

The thing with a K shaped economy is there are still a lot of folks with a lot of cash

Also a lot of folks pay in monthly installments, over 2 years the extra monthly cost of the difference between a pro max, which tends to sell well, and this likely ultra doesnt add enough to trigger a lot of folks cost red line

I've heard enough "smart people" also say the potential market for this phone is the person who wants an iPad mini...and a phone. In this case you (kinda) get both in one machine. I actually know a few people like that...and they say, if it can be a bit of both...they're in. Gonna cost about the same with one less device to carry.

 

[CEmajr]

If this was Jobs's Apple, you might have a point. However, when was the last time that happened for them? iPod, iPhone, iPad... then what? The watch… that's tied exclusively to the phone (and thus only a subset of phone users)? Certainly not the Vision Pro.

This is going to be the first "new" product since the Vision Pro. We're just going to have to see how it goes. I should say, as someone who bought iPods, iPhones, iPads, and Apple Watches early on (and have since dropped the watch and the iPad)… neither the Vision Pro nor this foldable phone call to me. Maybe it's because I'm older and my perception of my needs has changed. Maybe it's because I see both products as signs of a company that's lost its rudder. Maybe it's a mix of both. We'll see.

AirPods and Apple Watch have become the standard in their respective segments since launching. They're everywhere (at least in the US). Vision Pro was a different animal in that it's extremely expensive and had a limited use case.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy52]

I disagree with the premise. Steve Jobs was a once in a generation leader but Apple hasn’t been standing still since he passed. AirPods, Apple Watch, and Apple Silicon have all been massive successes. Whether the foldable succeeds is a separate question but I don’t think it’s accurate to dismiss Apple’s ability to execute simply because Jobs isn’t there anymore.

I don't think the average consumer cares (or even knows) about Apple Silicon. It matters to us, not my wife, kids, mother, coworkers, etc. As for the AirPods, well, numbers are showing that wired headphones are gaining marketshare—people are frustrated with Bluetooth and having to charge yet another thing. They're meh. And, again, the watch is limited to iPhone users—what would have happened if the iPod had stayed FireWire-only?

I hate to say it, being someone who once bled six colors, but I think Apple is nothing more than a pretty basic consumer electronics company now. There is no magic there, and there is certainly no skating to where the puck will be—just a lot of skating to where it was. This is all in the name of the shareholders, not innovation.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy52]

AirPods and Apple Watch have become the standard in their respective segments since launching. They're everywhere (at least in the US). Vision Pro was a different animal in that it's extremely expensive and had a limited use case.

I disagree with that—I'm a high school teacher and they are not "everywhere" in school. Again, you can't have the watch without the phone, and that keeps holding it back. As for AirPods... meh. I see a lot more wired headphones now (and the numbers back me up).

 

[GrumpyOldGuy52]

Off the top of my head Apple Silicon macs, airpods, homepods, airtags, and yes aWatches (you personally may not be a fan but Apple is, depending on day, the first or 2nd largest phone maker, that subset of users is huge. There’s a reason aWatches are ubiquitous in the US, where Apple dominates the market). Arguably the macbook neo too, may still be a laptop but it’s a different category of the market than Apple’s usual focus

As I mentioned in another comment, Apple Silicon doesn't mean anything to most people—they don't pay attention to that. Further, I teach high school, and AirPods and Apple Watches aren't ubiquitous with the kids. And I don't count the Neo—it's a laptop.

Again, this is all pointing to a company focused on its shareholders, not innovating. Just my $0.02.

 

[jdclifford]

- So, if every chip comes with better power efficiency, why would they need more cooling and vapor chambers?
- Er... Have you seen Harry Potter and the Vapor Chamber? it's super cool!

Probably has to do with AI use creating more heat.

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

I don't think the average consumer cares (or even knows) about Apple Silicon. It matters to us, not my wife, kids, mother, coworkers, etc. As for the AirPods, well, numbers are showing that wired headphones are gaining marketshare—people are frustrated with Bluetooth and having to charge yet another thing. They're meh. And, again, the watch is limited to iPhone users—what would have happened if the iPod had stayed FireWire-only?

I hate to say it, being someone who once bled six colors, but I think Apple is nothing more than a pretty basic consumer electronics company now. There is no magic there, and there is certainly no skating to where the puck will be—just a lot of skating to where it was. This is all in the name of the shareholders, not innovation.

Ok so what tech company is building quantifiably better hardware than Apple right now in the tech space. Who isn’t “meh”?

 

[seek3r]

As I mentioned in another comment, Apple Silicon doesn't mean anything to most people—they don't pay attention to that. Further, I teach high school, and AirPods and Apple Watches aren't ubiquitous with the kids. And I don't count the Neo—it's a laptop.

Again, this is all pointing to a company focused on its shareholders, not innovating. Just my $0.02.

On AS: people may not know it as Apple Silicon, but they do generally know “hey, Apple’s new computers since the pandemic have been super fast”

As to the rest: My wife’s a HS teacher, airpods are definitely ubiquitous with kids (hell, I’d know that directly even if she didnt tell me, if I drop off coffee for her on campus and see kids walking around between classes or see kids walking home or at the bus stops around here after school they all have airpods in), and aWatches are becoming enough of a problem that they’ve actually had to ban them (and cell phones themselves are getting banned from use in school this fall actually)

I’ll also tell you, as someone who splits their time between 2 big cities with lots of mass transit (NYC and DC) that anyone who looks approximately HS to college age almost certainly has airpods in on the train or bus. And I mean basically all of them

Wonder if you teach in a rural (and possibly less affluent area than DC or NYC are in general), because what I see isnt what you’re seeing

 

[Gorlammi]

Same could have been said about the iPhone when it first launched. Apple doesn’t win by making it first. They win by making a category appealing to people who ignored it before.

Same could be say about Vision Pro when it first....oh wait. That one DID flop because of being an overpriced iPad for your face that no one wanted.

This common retort you're using does not work anymore. Apple has had good success driving up the ASP of iPhone...but doubling it in 1 iteration while also downgrading the entire product just to accommodate the folding aspect, is going to be a big ask. The odds of them selling more than 1-2 million are very low. And if they don't sell the 10 million they are ordering, they will consider it a flop and back off the entire category.

 

[Gorlammi]

Will they add an extra drop of water to boost cooling capabilities or they gonna do another 17 series and save 0.00001 ct for profit?

About the cooling performance of the folding iPhone. They cheaped out on so much stuff there isn't much hardware inside that heats up and leaves space for a massive cooling unit.

I had the same thought...they've nerfed this thing into the ground to achieve the foldability...what do we even need cooling for? Lol. Maybe the design is so thin that it isn't sustainable without the vapor chamber.

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Same could be say about Vision Pro when it first....oh wait. That one DID flop because of being an overpriced iPad for your face that no one wanted.

This common retort you're using does not work anymore. Apple has had good success driving up the ASP of iPhone...but doubling it in 1 iteration while also downgrading the entire product just to accommodate the folding aspect, is going to be a big ask. The odds of them selling more than 1-2 million are very low. And they don't sell the 10 million they are ordering, they will consider it a flop and back off the entire category.

Comparing Vision Pro to a foldable iPhone is like comparing the Apple Watch to the HomePod because they’re both Apple products. One was a niche experiment the other is an evolution of a device that already sells 200+ million units a year. That’s not the gotcha you think it is.

 

[Gorlammi]

I disagree with the premise. Steve Jobs was a once in a generation leader but Apple hasn’t been standing still since he passed. AirPods, Apple Watch, and Apple Silicon have all been massive successes. Whether the foldable succeeds is a separate question but I don’t think it’s accurate to dismiss Apple’s ability to execute simply because Jobs isn’t there anymore.

Here's the difference: Many of those products that were runaway success were very obviously going to be a runaway success to anyone that was actually paying attention. Because they were products that people wanted, and they were products that were obvious for the market. They all have detractors, people who say things like "I don't want that" and 3 years later end up buying one.

Fast forward to a product like Vision Pro...which was very obviously going to flop. No one anywhere actually WANTS to wear a massive headset that induces nausea and is tethered to the wall and isolates you from the world. The few that do are putting up with the hardware to get at the software experience. You can't say that about any other Apple product. All other Apple hardware is appealing in itself. Not something you need to endure.

Foldable iPhone has many of the same issues of Vision Pro.

 

[Gorlammi]

Comparing Vision Pro to a foldable iPhone is like comparing the Apple Watch to the HomePod because they’re both Apple products. One was a niche experiment the other is an evolution of a device that already sells 200+ million units a year. That’s not the gotcha you think it is.

Yes it is. Both of these are massively overpriced and low value products. The most expensive iPhone is not going to be the best iPhone. It is going to be the worst iPhone, that also turns into the worst iPad. At over $2,000 this will not have the intended effect of poaching 10 million Pro Max customers.

 

[locoboi187]

I go through every iphone and I have to say I hope the vapor chamber is improved for dual screens and bigger battery. My 17 PM still gets hot.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy52]

Ok so what tech company is building quantifiably better hardware than Apple right now in the tech space. Who isn’t “meh”?

Right now? I’m pretty impressed with what Framework is doing. When my MBA is done with, I’m very likely headed there. On the phone side, the Clicks Communicator looks fun (the stock Android OS is probably a privacy nightmare), but GrapheneOS is really calling to me (which means either a Pixel or 2027 Moto hardware, so I’m holding off on that). Though, a Fairphone running Murena’s /e/ OS might be a better fit. In terms of headphones, my old Sony monitors outpace AirPods any minute of any hour.

It’s not a question of what is “quantifiably better.” It never has been—that’s marketing smoke and mirrors. It’s a question of what works best for the user and their use case. Over the past decade, Apple has slowly been losing me. Again, maybe I’m getting too old, but I’m seeing a lot more style over substance (Liquid Glass, case in point), and it’s not compelling to me.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy52]

Wonder if you teach in a rural (and possibly less affluent area than DC or NYC are in general), because what I see isnt what you’re seeing

lol… No, I teach in a large metropolitan area. It’s a public high school in the most densely populated area of my state. Wireless was something for a while, but it’s been clearly scaling back (and, like I said, the numbers back that up). The kids get tired of having to charge multiple devices, pairing, fighting with the school about having them in, etc.

I mean, I gave up on wireless earbuds… six years ago or so? I had first gen AirPods, upgraded to second, but hated the battery life on each. Just more ewaste, while my Sony monitors from the 1990s keep going.

 

[jicon]

Let's see how new Apple product Rev A makes out this time. There will be compromises. Conceptually, maybe this is the way to go(?) but suspect Rev A will be hurt most by battery, camera, or some sort of magsafe compromise, or seen more on the app experience with lack of optimization for screen size... but totally getting ahead of myself with no physical product yet.

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Yes it is. Both of these are massively overpriced and low value products. The most expensive iPhone is not going to be the best iPhone. It is going to be the worst iPhone, that also turns into the worst iPad. At over $2,000 this will not have the intended effect of poaching 10 million Pro Max customers.

You’re stating a personal preference as if it’s objective fact. Low value is subjective. If enough people see value in a foldable iPhone the market, not your opinion will decide.

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Here's the difference: Many of those products that were runaway success were very obviously going to be a runaway success to anyone that was actually paying attention. Because they were products that people wanted, and they were products that were obvious for the market. They all have detractors, people who say things like "I don't want that" and 3 years later end up buying one.

Fast forward to a product like Vision Pro...which was very obviously going to flop. No one anywhere actually WANTS to wear a massive headset that induces nausea and is tethered to the wall and isolates you from the world. The few that do are putting up with the hardware to get at the software experience. You can't say that about any other Apple product. All other Apple hardware is appealing in itself. Not something you need to endure.

Foldable iPhone has many of the same issues of Vision Pro.

Sorry man. I call nonsense. Before the iPhone people said nobody wanted a touchscreen phone without a physical keyboard or a stylus.

Before the iPad, people said it was just a giant iPhone. Before AirPods people mocked them as toothbrush heads you’d lose in a week.

Apple has repeatedly succeeded by showing people they wanted something they didn’t think they needed. That’s very different from simply building products people were already asking for.

 

[sailboatking]

I have the 17 Pro, I honestly think this vapor chamber thing is BS, I honestly don't think it does anything special lol
All the marketing last year and majority of people don't even push the phone that hard ever.

 

[Gorlammi]

Let's see how new Apple product Rev A makes out this time. There will be compromises. Conceptually, maybe this is the way to go(?) but suspect Rev A will be hurt most by battery, camera, or some sort of magsafe compromise, or seen more on the app experience with lack of optimization for screen size... but totally getting ahead of myself with no physical product yet.

Are we though? This is what we know about the product:

Upgrade: Unfolds into a small tablet for viewing things larger (but still too small for any true tablet utility like multiple apps or multitasking or pseudo laptop replacement...the kind of things a 10"+ iPad can achieve).
Downgrade: Losing Face ID in favor of god-awful side button Touch ID.
Downgrade: Short, wide aspect ratio for the folded display which becomes your everyday iPhone size.
Downgrade: 2 cameras instead of 3.
Downgrade: No MagSafe.
Downgrade: Nearly double the price of your last iPhone purchase.

What am I missing? None of that is expected to be inaccurate. Those are all well corroborated facts about this product.

 

[Gorlammi]

Sorry man. I call nonsense. Before the iPhone people said nobody wanted a touchscreen phone without a physical keyboard or a stylus.

Before the iPad, people said it was just a giant iPhone. Before AirPods people mocked them as toothbrush heads you’d lose in a week.

Apple has repeatedly succeeded by showing people they wanted something they didn’t think they needed. That’s very different from simply building products people were already asking for.

You're comparing a revolutionary world-changing product...to an iteration of that product that doubles the price and removes half of the best features.

Try to comprehend this.

 

[VulchR]

The story states "While there's no corroborating evidence, it's quite possible that the foldable design Apple is adopting could present unique cooling challenges because of its thinner internal structure and limited space for heat dissipation." I am no engineer, but surely a thinner iPhone has a greater surface-area-to-volume ratio and should make cooling easier. Perhaps the foldable screen acts as a thermal insulator?

 

[rchaser]

Same could have been said about the iPhone when it first launched. Apple doesn’t win by making it first. They win by making a category appealing to people who ignored it before.

When the iPhone launched, was it launching into a very specific market (touch screen candy bar) other players had been in for nearly a decade?

I don’t have a problem with your argument, I have a problem with your comparison. Most people Are bad at comparison. Don’t feel too bad.

Apple literally won by making it first to market with a touch interface phone - THE iPhone.

(Don’t @ me with stupid outlier examples of other touch or “smart” technologies in the market before the iPhone.)

 

[Gorlammi]

You’re stating a personal preference as if it’s objective fact. Low value is subjective. If enough people see value in a foldable iPhone the market, not your opinion will decide.

None of what I stated was subjective. It is literal comparison to the next best iPhone, and any iPad. That is where the value assessment comes from. Not my opinion.