Apple Reportedly Signs Deal with Samsung for 14-nm A9 Chips Starting in 2015

[Val-kyrie]

I had to log in and say that you're the definition of a sheep.

Very helpful comment

Care to explain? I simply commented on the situation from how Apple might view it, but I included the question "Thoughts?" to elicit intelligent comments, of which yours does not qualify. PM me if you want to have a 'civil' conversation. I am always willing to learn.

 

[skratch77]

Very helpful comment

Care to explain? I simply commented on the situation from how Apple might view it, but I included the question "Thoughts?" to elicit intelligent comments, of which yours does not qualify. PM me if you want to have a 'civil' conversation. I am always willing to learn.

I'll just chime in for the guy that quoted you.for some crazy reason you think apple is innovating and inventing thus technology used in there devices.apple doesn't know jack **** on how to design and build a CPU and Samsung and arm, you know the makers of the reference design work/worked closely together to design and build the arm cortex a15 big little soc and apple has nothing to do with these technologies you seem to think they made.

You do know Samsung has the fastest nand flash memory ATM and apple is using it in there new laptops right? Or did you think apple designed that memory and built it to right lol

Do you think apple can design a faster soc then the actual makers if arm and think that Samsung will steal apples technology and turn around and use it? The Samsung exynos soc uses reference arm design and not a hybrid like Qualcomm and apple.clock for clock the true arm reference design will blow the doors off of anything else and the octo core arm 15 in the Korean gs4 is one full generation ahead of anyone else as they are all using hybrid designs to fit power envelopes.the mighty snapdragon 800 that is not even out yet can't beat the true arm a15 that is in the gs4 clock for clock and somehow apple is afraid of Samsung stealing there tech?

Don't think so bud,Samsung made the a6 to fit apples power envelope

 

[Intosh]

So many delusional Apple fankids demonstrating their unconditional belief that Apple is almighty. They are in total denial that Apple just can't live without Samsung's tech. It's clear that despite Apple's strong desire to sever as many ties with Samsung as possible (like they are doing with Google), they just can't do without Samsung's cutting-edge chips fabrication technology (among other things). So funny that some fanboys in denial are trying to convince us that Apple is the one dangling the carrot with this crazy scenario where Apple is low-balling Samsung on the cutting-edge tech. LMAO

At least, judging by the comment ratings, there are more reasonable people here than those delusional fanboys.

 

[Tknull]

Sorry, I only deal in fact. Not in fan boy dreamland. The fact is, Apple makes a big deal of leaving Samsung only to keep coming back. Whether it's for displays of chips. if Apple could replace Samsung, they would. Fact is, Apple needs Samsung more than Samsung needs Apple. The sooner you accept this, the sooner you can enjoy those magical Samsung components in a peaceful state of mind.

I strongly recommend you stick to playing checkers rather than chess. You clearly cannot see more than one or two moves ahead.

Apple said that it wanted to "diversify." In business parlance, this means that you don't want a supplier to be able to either refuse to sell you parts that you need or to charge you outrageous prices. The more suppliers that you have that can supply you the same parts, the less able they would be to do so.

Getting a company such as TSMC up and running on new production lines/nodes takes YEARS, not days or months. But clearly if you guys think that announcing months ago that they want more diversification and signing another contract now with Samsung means that apple is "caving and running back to Samsung"... you obviously think that it should have only take weeks or months. Very ignorant.

The long term position (something that Apple and TSMC Samsung and others are looking at) is what future capability of these suppliers will be. Samsung knows that Billions of dollars is being invested by TSMC and others to ramp up. They know that they have to be realistic with prices and contracts. It is absolutely a certainty that Samsung would take into consideration the growing capacity of other suppliers when negotiating a new contract with Apple.

 

[Tknull]

Very helpful comment

Care to explain? I simply commented on the situation from how Apple might view it, but I included the question "Thoughts?" to elicit intelligent comments, of which yours does not qualify. PM me if you want to have a 'civil' conversation. I am always willing to learn.

Ha, was going to say the same thing. Curious to know which part of what you said he didn't like, or thought make you a "sheep." Is he arguing that competition is NOT good?

 

[Val-kyrie]

I'll just chime in for the guy that quoted you.for some crazy reason you think apple is innovating and inventing thus technology used in there devices.apple doesn't know jack **** on how to design and build a CPU and Samsung and arm, you know the makers of the reference design work/worked closely together to design and build the arm cortex a15 big little soc and apple has nothing to do with these technologies you seem to think they made.

You do know Samsung has the fastest nand flash memory ATM and apple is using it in there new laptops right? Or did you think apple designed that memory and built it to right lol

Do you think apple can design a faster soc then the actual makers if arm and think that Samsung will steal apples technology and turn around and use it? The Samsung exynos soc uses reference arm design and not a hybrid like Qualcomm and apple.clock for clock the true arm reference design will blow the doors off of anything else and the octo core arm 15 in the Korean gs4 is one full generation ahead of anyone else as they are all using hybrid designs to fit power envelopes.the mighty snapdragon 800 that is not even out yet can't beat the true arm a15 that is in the gs4 clock for clock and somehow apple is afraid of Samsung stealing there tech?

Don't think so bud,Samsung made the a6 to fit apples power envelope

Thank you for the reply, but let me respond.

First, thank you for the information about ARM chips. As I said, I am not an engineer and simply try to keep up on information, but there is more information on ARM chips and designs than I have time to keep track of at the moment.

Second, I do understand Apple didn't/doesn't make ARM chips but uses the chips which are currently being produced. I was, however, under the impression that Apple was/is tweaking these designs for their devices in order to obtain better performance (per Watt). Perhaps I am wrong, but I thought the tweaks Apple made to the chips were proprietary and that this was part of Apple's IP that they were trying to protect from premature exposure to competitors. (Please do not mistake this comment as unabashed support for any of Apple's patent violations.)

Third, I do like the technology that Samsung produces, including their memory and screens. I own a Samsung HDTV and BDP. Personally, I would prefer Samsung parts in every Mac, or at least in every Mac I own.

 

[Tknull]

So many delusional Apple fankids demonstrating their unconditional belief that Apple is almighty. They are in total denial that Apple just can't live without Samsung's tech. It's clear that despite Apple's strong desire to sever as many ties with Samsung as possible (like they are doing with Google), they just can't do without Samsung's cutting-edge chips fabrication technology (among other things). So funny that some fanboys in denial are trying to convince us that Apple is the one dangling the carrot with this crazy scenario where Apple is low-balling Samsung on the cutting-edge tech. LMAO

At least, judging by the comment ratings, there are more reasonable people here than those delusional fanboys.

As I said in an above reply... you completely lack foresight, as well as any business understanding. Apple could completely adore Samsung parts, and have absolutely no desire or intention of ever leaving.... but you can't lay that out there as a known position. It would give Samsung complete power and ability to take advantage of Apple. Any business that wants to stay successful for years to come must ALWAYS be developing alternative strategies, regardless of any intention of actually using those alternatives.

But hey, keep thinking and formulating your die hard opinions based on the latest rumor/gossip of the current date in time.

 

[skratch77]

Thank you for the reply, but let me respond.

First, thank you for the information about ARM chips. As I said, I am not an engineer and simply try to keep up on information, but there is more information on ARM chips and designs than I have time to keep track of at the moment.

Second, I do understand Apple didn't/doesn't make ARM chips but uses the chips which are currently being produced. I was, however, under the impression that Apple was/is tweaking these designs for their devices in order to obtain better performance (per Watt). Perhaps I am wrong, but I thought the tweaks Apple made to the chips were proprietary and that this was part of Apple's IP that they were trying to protect from premature exposure to competitors. (Please do not mistake this comment as unabashed support for any of Apple's patent violations.)

Third, I do like the technology that Samsung produces, including their memory and screens. I own a Samsung HDTV and BDP. Personally, I would prefer Samsung parts in every Mac, or at least in every Mac I own.

Here's the deal,Samsung spent 10 billion dollars of there own money and didn't ask apple for anything to build a fab from the ground up to make the a6 soc for them.to build a soc like the a6 the whole factory from ground zero and the first shovel that is dug into the ground is designed to build that chip.from the sand they use in the silicon and the technics and machines they build on the process node are all tied together to build that chip.like even if apple took the a6 to tsmc and said hey can you make this they would say hell no and if we somehow got it made we don't know how much power it will pull and how much leakege the transistors have.

Like look at amd and Intel as they both have 32nm CPUs but amds design and fab is not using the same process and can't run as cool and efficient as Intel's.

 

[alent1234]

I'll just chime in for the guy that quoted you.for some crazy reason you think apple is innovating and inventing thus technology used in there devices.apple doesn't know jack **** on how to design and build a CPU and Samsung and arm, you know the makers of the reference design work/worked closely together to design and build the arm cortex a15 big little soc and apple has nothing to do with these technologies you seem to think they made.

You do know Samsung has the fastest nand flash memory ATM and apple is using it in there new laptops right? Or did you think apple designed that memory and built it to right lol

Do you think apple can design a faster soc then the actual makers if arm and think that Samsung will steal apples technology and turn around and use it? The Samsung exynos soc uses reference arm design and not a hybrid like Qualcomm and apple.clock for clock the true arm reference design will blow the doors off of anything else and the octo core arm 15 in the Korean gs4 is one full generation ahead of anyone else as they are all using hybrid designs to fit power envelopes.the mighty snapdragon 800 that is not even out yet can't beat the true arm a15 that is in the gs4 clock for clock and somehow apple is afraid of Samsung stealing there tech?

Don't think so bud,Samsung made the a6 to fit apples power envelope

the A6 SoC is completely designed by Apple, like the Qualcomm's Snapdragon CPU

Apple is one of the few ARM architecture license holders along with qualcomm. samsung and others have reference ARM licenses where they have to make chips based on the reference design

 

[skratch77]

the A6 SoC is completely designed by Apple, like the Qualcomm's Snapdragon CPU

Apple is one of the few ARM architecture license holders along with qualcomm. samsung and others have reference ARM licenses where they have to make chips based on the reference design

So your saying apple designed the way to build the a6? And reference arm designs are and always have been the best performing options and there is 2-3 ways you can configure the a15 depending on how deep you want the pipeline

 

[iGrip]

all Apple delivered is a Windows8/Android ripoff thin layer of paint for an OS.

You don't understand. It is all truly magical.

 

[69650]

Two suppliers is better than one. Keep them on their toes and price competitive. Apple can't afford to become reliant on Samsung for key components.

 

[identity]

Very helpful comment

Care to explain? I simply commented on the situation from how Apple might view it, but I included the question "Thoughts?" to elicit intelligent comments, of which yours does not qualify. PM me if you want to have a 'civil' conversation. I am always willing to learn.

The main problem of your statement is you think Samsung will steal Apple's tech. That is clear flame-bait troll talk. There is no need to have intelligent comments or conversations when you throw out troll talk.

 

[alent1234]

So your saying apple designed the way to build the a6? And reference arm designs are and always have been the best performing options and there is 2-3 ways you can configure the a15 depending on how deep you want the pipeline

benchmarks and GHz don't equal performance in the real world
my iphone 5 is a lot faster than my galaxy S3 which is faster on paper
software needs to be optimized for the hardware on which it runs which is not the case with android

 

[jamesmademe]

I'm not Tim Cook's biggest fan, but I am not an idiot and know that this is where he really shines.

If this is what he thinks is right, then I do too!

 

[Val-kyrie]

The main problem of your statement is you think Samsung will steal Apple's tech. That is clear flame-bait troll talk. There is no need to have intelligent comments or conversations when you throw out troll talk.

Since there are patent disputes already (and evidence Samsung has utilized Apple's ideas in the past), I don't think that the idea that Samsung may try to utilize the IP of another company is "troll talk." In fact, I believe most companies "borrow" IP from other companies. Certainly, Apple has done so, as well. Your "troll talk" comment is nothing more than logical reductionism.

BTW, if you even bothered to check my posts, you would not even think of lodging a "flame-bait troll talk" accusation, but that again demonstrates the flippant nature of your comment.

 

[techwhiz]

So your saying apple designed the way to build the a6? And reference arm designs are and always have been the best performing options and there is 2-3 ways you can configure the a15 depending on how deep you want the pipeline

I'm not going to put words in the previous poster's mouth, but...

Apple and Qualcomm have a different class of license. That license allows then to use any portion of the reference RTL code from ARM to build their processors or none at all as long as they pass a suite of tests that verify architecture conformance, if they plan to call them ARM processors. So we have no idea what portion, if any of the ARM processor by Apple or Qualcomm is actual ARM code or their own.

Samsung and others that have IP licenses from ARM that allow them to use the RTL to make chips with very few or no modifications. They are able to supply memories and do some minor changes, put down as many cores as the like etc, but if they make major changes to the cores they violate their licenses.

If you look at the ARM License page -> http://www.arm.com/products/processors/licensees.php

You will notice that Qualcomm and Apple are missing.
As long as the instruction set is the same, they have license to do about anything they want. This is how/why Apple and Qualcomm can design their processors from the ground up with configurations and power saving features that the competition won't have.

Apple bought two companies that specialized in high performance processor designs.
P.A. Semi which did high performance and low power versions of PowerPC then ARM and Exponential Technology which then changed it's name to Intrisity, then bought by Apple specialized in high performance architectures.

 

[Dontazemebro]

This is not necessarily bad. While I am no engineer, I had the following thoughts:

1) Competition is good. A win to produce chips at 14nm only means Samsung has obtained a contract for that process node. Samsung is on notice that more companies are vying to produce chips for Apple and they will have to compete for (rather than assume) Apple's business. Their chokehold on Apple is not as tight as they thought.

2) Perhaps there is a year (2014?) for which Samsung is not producing chips for Apple. This would prevent them from having access to Apple's technology for that year and if so, when Samsung resumes production the following year, it would put them a year behind in (knowledge about Apple's) engineering.

3) Apple is loading up on (and investing in?) chip suppliers due to different needs for current and future products (iPods, iPhones (premium and base models), AppleTV, iTV, iWatch, etc.). Perhaps Samsung will develop the chips which require cutting edge node technology, while TSMC and GF will continue to produce older chips on proven technologies. The exception might be next year if TSMC (and GF?) have already proven the ability to produce chips at 20nm.

Thoughts?

Thoughts?

Well for one I think it's hilarious how you envision the world to revolve around Apple.

 

[Tknull]

Thoughts?

Well for one I think it's hilarious how you envision the world to revolve around Apple.

This is a website devoted to discussion about all things Apple. What would you prefer he focus his discussion on.... the Nissan Ultima?

 

[Dontazemebro]

This is a website devoted to discussion about all things Apple. What would you prefer he focus his discussion on.... the Nissan Ultima?

Yea because asking someone to be level headed and more even keel is just too much right?

 

[komodrone]

Ohh man thanks for the good laugh

Its amazing how delusional some of you are and still think like a little kid in the playground bragging to his friends his toys are better.

You have you whole fanboy theory completely backwards and Samsung upped the prices on apple in the first place and was the reason apple went to tsmc in the first place.

The ball is and has always been in Samsung court and now Samsung can price gauge and rape apple in cost per chip because Samsung now knows 100% that they are the only ones that can meet apples demand and will most definitely milk them dry.

Just so u know Samsung made 8billion pure profit last quarter and posted its highest selling quarter for phones shipped.

Ya apple sure got Samsung alright lmfao

Thanks man I needed a good laugh before bed.

Apple hates Samsung to death and is forced to still use them after trying to see what tsmc could do.I'm willing to bet my gs4 that there yields sucked ass and the a7 chip ran hot as hell and consumed more power then an i7 at full load and apple said wtf were we thinking and crawled back to Samsung just like they did for the retina Mac book pro screens after people started a class action lawsuit against apple for using pos junk lg screens in some laptops.

same comment can be made about you, except you got your anti-fanboy hat on.
we don't know what happened behind the scenes. fact is, my comments and your comments are just speculations.

----------

Fact is, Apple needs Samsung more than Samsung needs Apple.

This is an opinion.

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Don't be ignorant. The real issue is quality and quantity. Sure they could have up to 5 manufacturing companies working on their chips at the same time to meet quantity (boy would that be a mistake), but the heart of the matter is quality. Fact of the matter is, Samsung owns the chip business. There are other manufacturers out there, but Samsung does it the best, and has huge operates to meet massive demands. Apple would most likely prefer to use Samsung for their chips (and they should have for their displays too - with the Macbooks they had wayyy too many faulty issues with LG displays, and none at all with Samsung's - as they used both in the same model), but they're not going to do so if they have so much animosity between each other. If they got along, they would be all over Samsung. It's just business

do you know how the negotiation exactly went down? no? good.

 

[Val-kyrie]

Yea because asking someone to be level headed and more even keel is just too much right?

So what is your perspective?

 

[Dontazemebro]

So what is your perspective?

My perspective is that come end of day it's all business and no one company has the upper hand over the other. Apple needs Samsung for their chips and Samsung needs Apple for the service they provide. It's as simple as that. Point. Blank. Period.

 

[egoistaxx9]

the rivarly is nothing but a bid drama, deep down they're good friends trolling the world.

 

[otismotive77]

thank god they gave it back to samsung, all those samsung chips in iphones are really good, they're fast, light and work smooth and fluid, apple should not experiment with other companies.