Apple Requests Sanctions Against Samsung Delivering Default Victory in Design Patent Case

[ChazUK]

And you take stuff from Obamapacman. A known Apple fanboy who tends to take photoshop images to make his arguments. Kills everything else.

I love the way the image states the circular design "serves no purpose".
Air cooling intake perchance?

I don't know the creator of that image's thought process was. Do they think anyone out there thought "The arse end of a Chromebox looks just like a Mac Mini, I MUST buy one...."?

 

[kdarling]

Too many sidetracks. Most of the above pictures have nothing to do with this lawsuit. Apple has never accused Samsung of copying the bottom of the Mac Mini, any power warts or plugs, or so forth. The only photos of interest are the comparisons between phones and tablets.

In this particular case, Apple has a three pronged attack:

1) Several utility patents, like bounceback, for which they'd get a monetary award relative to their importance to the overall product. That is, not a lot.

2) Several design patents, including a simple rounded rectangle slab, a bezel, a flat dark face, and a UI icon grid. Apple really wants a win here, since a design infringement can allow the patent holder to collect ALL of the revenue for the offending products. In this case, up to $2 billion for 25 million devices.

The primary display patent is the generic "electronic device" rounded rectangle which has previously been thrown out in cases in the Netherlands, the British High Court, and even Judge Koh didn't think at first that Apple could win with it. Will this jury let it stand? Makers of devices from CD players to tablets to monitors to TVs to digital picture frames could be in jeopardy.

3) Trade dress claims, consisting of trademarks for the UI along with the device shape and packaging. Apple has to prove that a normal consumer, spending on average a couple of hundred dollars, would be fooled into thinking that Samsung's products were made or approved by Apple.

 

[KnightWRX]

Too many sidetracks. Most of the above pictures have nothing to do with this lawsuit.

That of course is the true goal of the people posting these things, to avoid discussing the lawsuit. Their agenda is just to try to manipulate others into believing the oft-repeated mantra "Samsung are copycats, Apple are innovators". This is exactly what Quinn and Samsung's other lawyers alude to when they mean Apple is waging a media war to denigrate Samsung.

And its working. People will ignore any attempts at analysing the actual claims Apple have put forth because frankly, going through patents, understand IP protection mechanism and the laws that regulate them and trying to understand both side's motions and arguments is rather unsensational and dull.

The reality is there is no great Apple victim, there is no great Samsung aggressor and this isn't Apple fighting back against an oppressive industry that lacks creativity. It's just 2 corporations arguing in courts over minute details, with one trying to get to market with products and the other trying to delay it.

People just aren't interested in objectivity and truth anymore. It needs to be wrapped up in a "Good vs Evil" fight of some kind and they need to pick a side to "fight on".

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Too many sidetracks. Most of the above pictures have nothing to do with this lawsuit. Apple has never accused Samsung of copying the bottom of the Mac Mini, any power warts or plugs, or so forth. The only photos of interest are the comparisons between phones and tablets.

In this particular case, Apple has a three pronged attack:

1) Several utility patents, like bounceback, for which they'd get a monetary award relative to their importance to the overall product. That is, not a lot.

2) Several design patents, including a simple rounded rectangle slab, a bezel, a flat dark face, and a UI icon grid. Apple really wants a win here, since a design infringement can allow the patent holder to collect ALL of the revenue for the offending products. In this case, up to $2 billion for 25 million devices.

The primary display patent is the generic "electronic device" rounded rectangle which has previously been thrown out in cases in the Netherlands, the British High Court, and even Judge Koh didn't think at first that Apple could win with it. Will this jury let it stand? Makers of devices from CD players to tablets to monitors to TVs to digital picture frames could be in jeopardy.

3) Trade dress claims, consisting of trademarks for the UI along with the device shape and packaging. Apple has to prove that a normal consumer, spending on average a couple of hundred dollars, would be fooled into thinking that Samsung's products were made or approved by Apple.

From what I have read from your other post in the past. Apple point 3 trade dress and is a tall order for them to prove. More so them proving it would be slim to known. I would not be surprised if par as every other court they will lose pretty big on count 2.

 

[boronathan]

Do you really use an AC adaptor to show how a PDMI to SD or USB in a very thin device can be made?

You can't be serious

so you went from "how can a usb or sd adapter look different" to "how can a pdmi to sd or usb in a very thin device look different"?

I don't even see the goalposts, you've moved them so far. You can't be serious.

No, my argument is that a PDMI adaptor for a thin device would look similar.

Yes i see that's your argument...now.

 

[Technarchy]

And you take stuff from Obamapacman. A known Apple fanboy who tends to take photoshop images to make his arguments. Kills everything else.
Not checking out the source really makes all your agruments crap and showing yet again how crap images get repeated as fact.

So you're committed to the notion that Samsung does not deal in approximations of apple products.

 

[rjohnstone]

So you're committed to the notion that Samsung does not deal in approximations of apple products.

No more so that Apple deals in approximations of Sony products.

 

[Technarchy]

No more so that Apple deals in approximations of Sony products.

Which Sony product? Name it.

If you can...

 

[boronathan]

No more so that Apple deals in approximations of Sony products.

So Samsung did deal in the approximations of apple products?

 

[KnightWRX]

Which Sony product? Name it.

If you can...

Vaio X505.

----------

So Samsung did deal in the approximations of apple products?

Approximations aren't copies. Courts will decide whether Apple's claims have merit or not.

 

[boronathan]

Vaio X505.

----------



Approximations aren't copies. Courts will decide whether Apple's claims have merit or not.

I never said they were copies. As long as we're clear that they are approximations that's fine with me!

 

[KnightWRX]

As long as we're clear that they are approximations that's fine with me!

As long as we're clear that that is your subjective opinion and cannot be stated as a fact, that's fine with me too.

 

[boronathan]

As long as we're clear that that is your subjective opinion and cannot be stated as a fact, that's fine with me too.

That's fair. but if the courts rule that Apple was correct, is it still a subjective opinion?

 

[Technarchy]

Vaio X505.

Nope.

 

[Renzatic]

Going a little aside here.

It's been a slow Sunday, and I've spent the last couple of hours catching up on the whole Apple vs. Samsung hooplah that's been the talk of the town these last few. Reading all the articles about who said what, who copied who, and who released what to the press, one thing has left an impression on me moreso than anything else.

No matter where they are, even when they're neck deep in court, sitting in front of a jury of their peers, Apple is always trying to impress everyone and sell itself. Like they have a key witness employee on the stand. They ask how they came up with the iPhone. The replies have been some variation of this...

"We decided to make something revolutionary. Something that has never been done before. So we got the guys and gals together over some lattes and trendy sushi dinners and thought about what to make next. Something that will change the way people live. So we got out the drawing boards, the CAD software, and spent years and years inventing something new. Something magical. Something that will forever alter the course of human history. The iPhone. The end result of years of hard work by the smartest people in the industry. Truly, nothing like it was seen before. People took notice. Lives were changed. Things were never the same. And then Samsung copied us".

They're playing the scrappy innovator angle to the hilt. Steve Jobs would truly be proud.

 

[boronathan]

Going a little aside here.

It's been a slow Sunday, and I've spent the last couple of hours catching up on the whole Apple vs. Samsung hooplah that's been the talk of the town these last few. Reading all the articles about who said what, who copied who, and who released what to the press, one thing has left an impression on me moreso than anything else.

No matter where they are, even when they're neck deep in court, sitting in front of a jury of their peers, Apple is always trying to impress everyone and sell itself. Like they have a key witness employee on the stand. They ask how they came up with the iPhone. The replies have been some variation of this...

"We decided to make something revolutionary. Something that has never been done before. So we got the guys and gals together over some lattes and trendy sushi dinners and thought about what to make next. Something that will change the way people live. So we got out the drawing boards, the CAD software, and spent years and years inventing something new. Something magical. Something that will forever alter the course of human history. The iPhone. The end result of years of hard work by the smartest people in the industry. Truly, nothing like it was seen before. People took notice. Lives were changed. Things were never the same. And then Samsung copied us".

They're playing the scrappy innovator angle to the hilt. Steve Jobs would truly be proud.

Honest question. But what would you have them say? It's a little fluffy but why wouldn't they say what they did?

 

[KnightWRX]

That's fair. but if the courts rule that Apple was correct, is it still a subjective opinion?

As the courts have already ruled that Apple was wrong in certain jurisdiction, we can only state that it is a fact in the jurisdiction where it was ruled they were correct.

 

[boronathan]

As the courts have already ruled that Apple was wrong in certain jurisdiction, we can only state that it is a fact in the jurisdiction where it was ruled they were correct.

Works for me!

 

[KnightWRX]

Nope.

- Wedge shaped design. Check.
- Chicklet keyboard. Check.
- Ultra thin design. Check.
- Lightweight. Check.
- Fits in a manila envelope. Check.

Yep. That sir is the grand daddy to the MacBook Air.

 

[DeathChill]

That of course is the true goal of the people posting these things, to avoid discussing the lawsuit. Their agenda is just to try to manipulate others into believing the oft-repeated mantra "Samsung are copycats, Apple are innovators". This is exactly what Quinn and Samsung's other lawyers alude to when they mean Apple is waging a media war to denigrate Samsung.

I am curious about this media war comment as I think I've heard it a few times. What exactly has Apple been doing to Samsung in the media? As far as I know Apple has barely commented on the case and only specifically when asked. However, maybe I am unaware of some of the comments and what not.

 

[KnightWRX]

I am curious about this media war comment as I think I've heard it a few times. What exactly has Apple been doing to Samsung in the media? As far as I know Apple has barely commented on the case and only specifically when asked. However, maybe I am unaware of some of the comments and what not.

You must then be unaware of the UK judge's decision to have Apple post a retraction saying Samsung did not copy their design on their website, following comments to the press after he ruled Samsung's products as non-infringing.

Apple has been playing the "Copycats!" card in the press this whole time. When asked about the lawsuits, they could just say "no comments, no decision has been made by the courts yet". But they keep pushing the "they copied us", as if it were a ruled on fact.

(Edit, before you ask for it, UK ruling with Apple's post-9th of july statement)

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/marku...nts/2012/2049.html&query=Apple&method=boolean

Samsung also point out that after the judgment in this case was handed down Apple said: (I will quote what has been called the Hely statement):
"It's no coincidence that Samsung's latest products look a lot like the iPhone and iPad. This kind of blatant copying is wrong and, as we've said many times before, we need to protect Apple 's intellectual property."

(Edit 2, Groklaw touched on the subject when they posted Quinn's statement which itself contains both exhibits of the behaviour and reminds the court of the discussion about openness and fair media representation and public dissemination following a Samsung trial brief that mentionned it)

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2012080117581118

If you recall, Samsung told the court in its trial brief [PDF], that Apple has been involved in a "coordinated campaign" of feeding the media negative information about Samsung. That's understating it, actually. Here's what Samsung wrote:

Even as Apple has carried out a coordinated campaign of dragging Samsung‘s name through the mud in this lawsuit and in the media, it has used Samsung‘s patented technology while flatly refusing to pay for its use.

 

[DeathChill]

You must then be unaware of the UK judge's decision to have Apple post a retraction saying Samsung did not copy their design on their website, following comments to the press after he ruled Samsung's products as non-infringing.

EDIT: haha, good call on editing your post to include the quote! I don't think Apple stating their opinion is anything close to a media war, however.

Apple has been playing the "Copycats!" card in the press this whole time. When asked about the lawsuits, they could just say "no comments, no decision has been made by the courts yet". But they keep pushing the "they copied us", as if it were a ruled on fact.

I may be wrong but I only have seen comments that they feel Samsung is copying them, hence the lawsuit. I'm not sure if I'd consider telling people (when asked) about why you are suing someone is considered a media war.

 

[KnightWRX]

EDIT: haha, good call on editing your post to include the quote! I don't think Apple stating their opinion is anything close to a media war, however.



I may be wrong but I only have seen comments that they feel Samsung is copying them, hence the lawsuit. I'm not sure if I'd consider telling people (when asked) about why you are suing someone is considered a media war.

Considering, in the UK at least, the statement was made after the court ruling and was stated as a "matter of fact", it is a media campaign.

Anyway, I added more information for you to peruse. It is Samsung's viewpoint, but frankly, from just reading this forum and other tech sites, you can see the "Samsung are copying!" statements fly all over, from Apple, as if the case was already decided. No need for high priced lawyers to point it out.

 

[G51989]

- Wedge shaped design. Check.
- Chicklet keyboard. Check.
- Ultra thin design. Check.
- Lightweight. Check.
- Fits in a manila envelope. Check.

Yep. That sir is the grand daddy to the MacBook Air.

What? Apple wasn't the first one who had the idea to make a thinner laptop? You must be insane. And a Fandroid!

 

[Technarchy]

Who knew Stanley Kubrick secret inspired Apple in all things.

We know where the Samsung lawyers are leading us...